Author Topic: How does one keep from giving up?  (Read 21828 times)

FenrirEX

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How does one keep from giving up?
« on: June 13, 2013, 04:44:04 AM »
It's been, what, five months since the shut down.  I've tried to keep hope, to not give up, but...it's getting hard to keep hoping for a miracle.  I miss the game so much, and I really don't know how to deal with the loss.

I should mention, I also have clinical depression, so it makes it hard to be optimistic sometimes.  So, I just want to know what to do.  Should I give up on the game proper coming back?  Should I put hope on the game being 'reborn' in a new team?  I just...I need something to fill this growing hole in my heart, even if it's just a little something to believe in.

Thanks for listening, and any constructive thoughts are very appreciated! :)

Kemphler

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2013, 05:01:44 AM »
There is so much in the works right now. The Plan Zs are making great progress towards successor games, and if Codewalker's work with the Icon program is any indication, there are people out there making progress towards the game proper. As for a true game studio picking the game up and us having a full fledged development team again like we had under Paragon Studios?...Well, I truthfully don't think that is going to come back, but a maintenance mode of sorts seems likely within the next year, assuming people have made the same progress or faster with CoH as someone has made with another killed off game called Auto Assault (and considering the progress from nothing done to nearly able to call it a game again for Auto Assault was done in a little over a year by one person, if there is a team working on CoH, I don't see why we couldn't have it soon.) Mind you, I could be tossing complete exposition out when it comes to the idea of a CoH private server, but I've got a good feeling about it. If you want something a little more solid to put hope in though the Plan Zs, being The Phoenix Project, Heroes and Villains, and Valiance Online, they would be a good place to put said hope.
"I intend to live forever, or die trying." - Groucho Marx

JaguarX

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2013, 05:07:40 AM »
It's been, what, five months since the shut down.  I've tried to keep hope, to not give up, but...it's getting hard to keep hoping for a miracle.  I miss the game so much, and I really don't know how to deal with the loss.

I should mention, I also have clinical depression, so it makes it hard to be optimistic sometimes.  So, I just want to know what to do.  Should I give up on the game proper coming back?  Should I put hope on the game being 'reborn' in a new team?  I just...I need something to fill this growing hole in my heart, even if it's just a little something to believe in.

Thanks for listening, and any constructive thoughts are very appreciated! :)

Well I guess I'll let you in on this secret since I guess it wont hurt any.

I'm considered a manic despression which is basically the psych's people nice way of saying bipolar (Axis I mood disorder) aggrevated by (aka not the believed to be the cause but may be part of it) whacky thyroid (just under clinical overactive thyroid.). Which means I get some of the symptoms of hyperthyroid and they know it's hyperactive but not hyperactive enought to risk doing something about it and potentially destroying it. Anything above 65 I'm sweating, cant sleep, sometimes for days, and when I do sleep I never feel rested whether I sleep 4 hours or 19, always have to eat, always thirsty, when I do eat there is always a lingering nausiated feeling, but if I dont eat I feel like I'm starving, and cant gain a pound no matter how much I eat even with rock bottom activity level that would cause most other people to balloon into a tub of blubber.

So even all of that, waking up, some days wondering why the pancake am I here, feeling like a zombie and eye lids weighing 300 pounds, sometimes there is no way to think optimistic that I can find. Yet, I must keep going. I'm not sure why or how, but I believe there is a purpose and soemtimes only thing that keeps me going, honestly, is pure sheer morbid curiosity of what the near future brings. Maybe the game will come back maybe it wont, but out of curiosity I sure as hell want to find out.

There is three projects being worked on and if it helps with your hope, know that they are past a stage that many games never see even with full studio and millions to spend. One way or another, the game will be reborn. You will fly again. Stick around. It will take a while but watch it unfold and soon enough all of this will behind us and we'll be playing 1-3 games of COX reborn. That I think is a certainty.

And if there is a bonus drop, maybe somewhere somehow the real COX will be back too by then i24 and all.

Segev

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2013, 12:58:48 PM »
I'll just add that pure cussed stubbornness is a good way to keep going. Even if it seems hopeless, unless you've actively got something better to do that this is interfering with, it's not worth admitting it's hopeless, because hey, stubborn persistence can win!

OzonePrime

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2013, 01:18:36 PM »
I'll just add that pure cussed stubbornness is a good way to keep going. Even if it seems hopeless, unless you've actively got something better to do that this is interfering with, it's not worth admitting it's hopeless, because hey, stubborn persistence can win!

Exactly!

mrultimate

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SARobb

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2013, 02:17:36 PM »
Exactly!
^
qft

We all miss it, hang in there!
Stand up for what you beleive in - even if you are standing alone

Randomvector

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2013, 02:19:12 PM »
For me there is these facts:

Hellgate:London closed and was reborn
APB was closed and was reborn
Ryzom closed and reopened a couple times.
Asherons Call 2 closed and reopened 7 years later.

and if those games can come back I will always hope ours will as well.

ANd if not, SWG has an Emulator, Everquest has an emulator, etc. I am sure an emulator will surface for our home as well.

Surelle

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2013, 02:54:10 AM »
Well I guess I'll let you in on this secret since I guess it wont hurt any.

I'm considered a manic despression which is basically the psych's people nice way of saying bipolar (Axis I mood disorder) aggrevated by (aka not the believed to be the cause but may be part of it) whacky thyroid (just under clinical overactive thyroid.).

I'm really glad you realize the thyroid problem connection there.  My ex is bipolar and my daughter got weighted down with it majorly in her late teens.  Blood work came back negative on the thyroid through a regular hospital because she has one hyperthyroid and one hypothyroid so they balance each other out in the blood work.  Finally I took her to a Naturopath, who found it right away.  They do Chinese medicine, a lot of looking through the irises of the eyes and pulse taking and such.

She is on sepia, homeopathic remedy 30c pellets, 5 of them, 3x a day, plus Relax-Eze (Dr. Christopher's formula, even Amazon has it) and a female reproductive formula of Dr. Christopher's too.

I know those are more for female thyroid/bipolar though.  Males I think take Nox Vomica (sometimes called Nux Vomica) homeopathic, and I'm not sure what else.  But you should definitely touch base with a Naturopathic physician.  Why suffer when you don't have to?  You can beat that thyroid back.  Believe me, if my daughter can do it, anyone can.  She was pretty bad off for years and we couldn't find out what was wrong.  I tried so many doctors, sheesh.  If it wasn't for the Naturopath we'd still be screwed, lol.

Oh yeah, essential fatty acids (Omega 3s, 6s and 9s) help a lot too.  We do one tablespoon a day of flax seed oil (Barleans, in the black bottle from the refrigerator section of the health food store) in juice too.  You can make salad dressings with it, just don't heat it because it kills the good in it.  Google it for bipolar if you don't believe me.  Everyone can use more essential fatty acids actually.  They do you and your immune system a world of good.

Sorry for the thread derail.  Carry on!

Lucretia MacEvil

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2013, 04:40:55 AM »
Fenrir, I'm also clinically depressed, and, since I'm not much of a gamer, CoX's closure left a big hole for me, too.  At first, it was tempting to give up, but reading and writing on these boards and seeing all the great stuff that the Plan Zs have come up with helps me a lot.  Fortunately, I also have a stubborn streak, and I've been putting it to good use with the CoX campaign.  I'm GOING to get my city back!  I know I may just be dreaming, but hey, why not dream?

Besides, from a practical standpoint, what do we have to lose?  NCsoft dealt our community a huge blow by closing our game.  It was the worst thing they could do to us. 

And y'know what?  Their worst wasn't enough.  In spite of everything, the community is still here, and its members are working to build us not one, but three new homes.  We made it through the worst of the worst. 

I also find a considerable measure of delight and amusement in the irony of the situation;  the SuperPowered MMO genre will actually expand as a result of the closure of our beloved City due to the 3 Plan Z games.  With all the superhero films that have become popular recently, a little fan-driven PR and advertising could make this genre HUGE!  And NCsoft can't really get in on it because who would trust them with a superhero game after they axed ours like that?  Their callous and abrupt closure of our game is going to back-fire big time, and all of us are going to be there to see it.

Keep flying high, and I'll see you in the sky!

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2013, 07:15:36 AM »
Try to treat it like a person you really care about, but never get to see for whatever reason it is.  The best thing you can do is accept that you wont be able to see them today and then focus on what else is around you in your life.  If you think about it too much it can destroy you, create sort of an internal warfare.  So you put in the back of your mind.  It is hard to do, it will take a little more of that internal warfare that is raging to subdue and focus on the moment around you.  Work, hobbies, family, friends, perhaps another game that keeps your interest(just don't try to compare it to CoH) but you can set aside the game in your mind and your heart.  Not forgetting about it.  Just storing it away for the time being.  You put your heart into other things, anything really.  If it gives you strength or happiness or just takes your mind off things.  Do it death put all your heart in it, except for that little spot you set aside for the game.  Eventually it will become easier and easier to not think about.  The gap will fill but it won't fill that little spot you put aside for CoH.  And like the person we compared to at the start of the post you just hope that maybe you can see them again one day for old time's sake.

Uncertainty is a heck of a thing, that is why these gaps are created.  Because something we had, that was certain or good is removed.  And there is no way to exactly replace that feeling.  At best it will be replaced with a similar feeling and this makes it hard to not give up hope.  This feeling alone creates such a painful feeling that leaves you wanting what you had, not looking forward to what may be.  And it is very hard to move forward mentally, emotionally, and sometimes even physically with this crushing emotion.  It is like a wet rug on your soul and thoughts, I know the feeling. 

One of the big things to help shrug this rug, is to accept that feelings and emotions are powerful things, they can drop the greatest of men and woman to their knees, make the most rational person completely insane, and they can slam the brakes on everything around you.  Accepting that emotions won't always be pleasant or rational and that those are just part of the experience of life helps you shrug them and move on to the next one knowing there will be other good times, and other bad times.  Live, laugh, and love during the good times and tough out the bad times.  I think that the bad times define you just as much as the good times if not more.  It shows you how much you can handle, how much weight can be held on your shoulders, regardless of what it is.  If it is heavy to you that is all that matter.  Then when this weight is off the trees a little greener, the wind a little cooler(or warmer) and the sky a little bluer.

My post got a little off topic but dealing with loss and not giving up hope I don't feel are things that can be applied to specific things in life.  But to the picture as a whole.  To quote Winston Churchill(I think have done it before same quote)
Quote
If you find yourself walking in hell, just keep walking.

That quote stood out to me the first time I heard it.  It was the first time I understood what people would mean when they would say "Live for the moment" etc etc.  I took it to mean if you are in a bad place and you stop you will continue to be in a bad place.  But if you keep moving forward you can get to a better place.  How I took that to mean "Live for today" in anyway at all is.  Just focus on making today the best possible day you can so tomorrow(which will be today eventually)can be even better then today.

I hope it helps. bit of a ramble.  Stay strong my friend.

Triplash

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2013, 11:24:50 AM »
I hear you, my friend. I spent a good ten years of my life under the hold of a serious depression. I know where you're coming from when you say it can be hard to be optimistic. Like Segev said, what you need is some sheer, cement-headed stubbornness. Refuse to let negativity have another day.

In my experience, the way to hold onto hope is to focus on the ways something can work. Once you find that out, the only question left is how can I make sure it works? Remove the obstacles one at a time, and arrange the circumstances to give success the best possible chance. And if you personally can't make those changes, then you support the people who can. Give them what they need to stay focused or encouraged. Sometimes, like with us here, all that means is to be there saying things like "Cool!" and "Thanks!" and giving them feedback when they ask our opinions.

First off, look at the Icon program Codewalker has made (link in case you haven't seen it). It's like freaking magic how good it feels just to watch your character moving around in the city again, with sound and the ability to control your movement. Granted, from what he's said, Icon won't be the program that lets us play it as a game again... for technical reasons that I don't really understand (and probably couldn't even pronounce, hehe).  But that's not the point. Look at what he's accomplished with it. Now realize that the people working on the playable version are making those same kinds of progress. They're just not showing it to us, because they don't want to risk their work being stopped midway. Once it's usable they'll get it out to us. These people have the same feelings of longing that we do to get back into Paragon City and fight Circle of Thorns and Longbow again. But they have the technical skills to do something about it, and they're using those skills as we speak.

Each of the Plan Z projects look like they're going to be really cool, too. With three different takes on a superhero game, most of us are bound to like at least one of them. I foresee a lot of people liking and playing all three. Their teams are all filled with passionate and skilled people, and are being lead by former players of the same game we love. Two of the teams are completely made up of those players. They all remember what made Paragon City great and their goal is to put that influence into the new cities.

So what we need to focus on is supporting these different groups. And if we can't support them technically, then by $deity we'll support them in spirit! Because they do know what to do, and they do know how to do it. All we need to do is to show them that we're here and we're eager to use what they're making. Even if we're not here all day every day, we're ready to come back when the time is right.

As for the game officially coming back, well... there are reasons to say a cautious 'maybe' instead of a definite 'no', but the chances are slim. The current owners just don't seem interested in negotiating. However that doesn't mean it will never be playable again. We just might have to celebrate quietly, amongst ourselves, when it happens. ;)

Stormsurge

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2013, 03:37:11 PM »
The current owners will eventually make enough poorly made business decisions that they'll have no choice but to sell the rights for it. And when they do, the company that picks it up will reopen it.

Spatch1971

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2013, 05:08:40 PM »
It's been, what, five months since the shut down.  I've tried to keep hope, to not give up, but...it's getting hard to keep hoping for a miracle.  I miss the game so much, and I really don't know how to deal with the loss.

I should mention, I also have clinical depression, so it makes it hard to be optimistic sometimes.  So, I just want to know what to do.  Should I give up on the game proper coming back?  Should I put hope on the game being 'reborn' in a new team?  I just...I need something to fill this growing hole in my heart, even if it's just a little something to believe in.

Thanks for listening, and any constructive thoughts are very appreciated! :)

I completely sympathize.  I suffer from chronic anxiety and related depression...so bad it's gotten to the point where my doctors have taken me off work.  CoH has been a wonderful therapeutic experience for me over the years, a virtual world I could visit that, temporarily anyways, blunted the symptoms of my illness.  To date, I haven't found anything to fill the hole CoH's cancellation has left, and it's been a difficult six months.

But, I maintain a flicker of optimism CoH will be back.  The community here remains reasonably vibrant and strong for a game six months dead.  Elsewhere in another thread, a poster listed four or five MMOGs that were rezzed from oblivion.   And, don't forget the TV show Family Guy, rezzed after a few years of its initial cancellation.  There is precedent.  It IS possible for CoH to rise from the ashes.  It's this possibility I cling to.

pogoman

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 09:49:28 PM »
I do my show, Save CoH Radio, every week because I REFUSE to give up! We have to keep hoping, because without hope, there is no tomorrow. I've heard stories bout school kids reading improving from this game, social anxieties overcome because of CoX, other ailments dealt with BECAUSE of CoH. If there is ANYTHING to keep hoping for and hold onto it is the return of CoH! That's what keeps me from giving up.
Keep fighting the good fight and don't stop believing!
We are heroes, this is what we do!

AlphaFerret

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2013, 10:50:24 PM »
If Anarchy Online can keep on rolling, CoH deserves to live again.

downix

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2013, 10:56:28 PM »
If Anarchy Online can keep on rolling, CoH deserves to live again.
AO is also getting a major engine update. Have you *seen* the new graphics?

JaguarX

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2013, 12:25:30 AM »
If Anarchy Online can keep on rolling, CoH deserves to live again.
yup except that game reached 700,000 subs in late 2004, when WoW didnt even that many. Then when it went to F2P, it is stated that 400,000 more people came on board and by the next year it hit the one million mark.

Higher than expected profits wass reported in 2006, keyword there is probably expected and remained steady for three years. 2009, it said it started to decline slowly. COX peaked at about 180,000 in 2008 time period and declined after that to the stated population of game closure said by some to be 60,000-80,000. about 100,000 lost in about 4 years or about 25,000 a year gone between that time period. And may have dropped even further than that if Freedom did indeed raise the population to the stated closure population level.

Expectations-TSW expectations- healthy sub retention rate is 490,000 subs

What is considered poor subscription retention to them (Funcom) is what is categorized as the  Age of Conan scenario- 280,000 subs average.

Which if COX was part of that group scenario it would have been considered utterly under performing to their expectations.

Although in this same report is says that Conan is cash flow positive. But to their credit, they didnt shut down Conan, they just made some changes and remarketed it under the title of Age of Conan: Unchained. Key word- market to give it a fair shake to improve. And guess what? In 2011 the Conan Unchained doubled it's subscriptions (300,000) NEW players added since the rerelease. See, soemtimes a little marketing and trying a bit to get it where it should be does work.


But with all that said above, City should still be kicking at least given a fair shake ot actually improve instead of making those great improvements but yet basically keeping it a secret.




But side note- didnt the engine upgrade happen in March 2012? Not to mention is said they did a server merge in 2013. Seems like Funcom knew how to turn things around and if COX was in their hands instead of COX I think they probably would have put forth more effort to ensure success.

LadyVamp

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2013, 04:04:50 AM »
I don't know if this will help but when I feel like giving up I close my eyes and imagine myself standing before my toons.  I'm on stage, and I look out into the audience where they are.  And I look at each one's face.  I know that I cannot give up on them.  They lend me their strength and cry out with one voice:

"No Surrender!"

Call me crazy if you must but to me my toons are as real as any of you.  They are family.  I can't let go.  I can't give up.  I must find a way to keep them alive.  They live on in my heart and someday I will bring them forth into the world again.  They will live again!

I....We must do this for our toons.  For All our toons!

LV
No Surrender!

sinister8088

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Re: How does one keep from giving up?
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2013, 06:23:56 AM »
Depends on point of view:

Keeping Paragon Studios opened, City of Heroes online? That ship has sailed, not much we can do.
Task Force Hail Mary? Losing momentum, VV gone since April (health issues?), and both campaigns were mostly ignored.  Again, not much we can do: efficacy of such campaigns exponentially drops as the time from the COH shutdown grows longer.  Rae is trying a third target, fingers crossed.  (I'm pessimistic on selling something you don't own yourself.  Comes from years of trying to offload government purchased and disposed E-Waste before letting "recyclers" have at it: unless someone has an explicit interest in it beforehand, it really is ice-skating uphill.)
Client reengineering?  Might or might not be at work, no timeline, promises, or guarantee that NCSoft will not C&D it to death.  Closest I think Titan Network will get to promoting it is Titan Icon, but past letting multiple clients connect to each other through any means is probably not going to be discussed on here.
Plan Z initiatives? Best hope, but it's a long shot (on any of the efforts: TPP, H&V, or Valiance).  Time, effort, and talent needed (and I can offer none myself.)  Funding I can offer, but at wage-slave levels, can't fund reengineering directly (nor can anyone), and The Phoenix Project won't mess with Kickstarter until this September.  Best I can offer is buying Titan Network a cup of coffee through PayPal at the moment, no other options are present.

It really depends on what you're after, and what level of winning that you are prepared to accept (The game as-is can't be saved from NCSoft's indication: would you like a private server that "changes the names to protect the innocent", or a spiritual successor that isn't the same game but has the same community?  Or is simply being on these forums with us proof enough for you that our cause is still alive?  That Atlas Park 33 still means something?  That "Go.  Hunt.  Kill Skuls" is an inside joke that only we get?)

I loved this game.  I love this community.  I'd love something to do on a Friday night.  With Plan Z, two out of three ain't bad.  I'm backing that horse in the race.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 06:44:39 AM by sinister8088 »