Author Topic: Any others close?  (Read 8962 times)

MisterKitty

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Any others close?
« on: June 05, 2013, 09:48:09 PM »
Damn, but I miss CoH!

Are there any MMOs out there that even come close, and by that I mean being so easy to join a pick-up team, or having instanced "missions" (quests, etc)?

I'm afraid nothing else comes close.  Any suggestions?

Cinnder

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2013, 10:03:17 PM »
My short answer is "no", unfortunately.  I've tried a lot of MMOs, even ones that people here on Titan have recommended, and nothing comes anywhere near CoX for me.  Of course, everyone looks for something different, and maybe some of those other games have some of the things that they enjoyed in CoH.  For me, the things that made CoH so enjoyable are also the things that made it unique -- and it remains so.

JaguarX

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2013, 10:10:38 PM »
Depends.

If ya looking for another COX, might as call it a day. There is no other COX...yet.


If you are merely looking for what you described, then even somethign like WoW fit the bill or can. Ease of finding a team is relative.

In COX I didnt find it so easy to find teams and usually had to make my own, while in many other games I barely can log in for 2 minutes without invites coming in.
In CO it took a hot minute to warm up being new and find where stuff was socially, less time though than in COX when I first started but took a hot minute. Then after that when I get the urge I can find and or join or create a team to do anything with nor problem now, after I figured out where the team forming messages are kept and all the team missions and how thye worked enough to lead one when I get the urge.

Instanced missions...how many do you require? All instanced or some instanced or what?

Dollhouse

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2013, 11:22:45 PM »
Damn, but I miss CoH!

Are there any MMOs out there that even come close, and by that I mean being so easy to join a pick-up team, or having instanced "missions" (quests, etc)?

I'm afraid nothing else comes close.  Any suggestions?

While I'm very much enjoying a couple-three games (and in fact TSW had really become my "main" prior to CoH shuttering...although I still played and enjoyed the latter very much indeed), in the two areas you mention, I also know of no other game that comes close. CoH's approach to teaming and social functionality was pure genius...so good that you can't help but wonder "why don't all MMOs do it like this?"

TSW and Fallen Earth both use instancing, but it's not the default for most missions. TSW instances dungeon runs, and there are missions in the main story arc that are solo instances (which the majority of players hated...there are markedly fewer in later-released zones, since the player feedback was pretty decisive).

LadyShin

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2013, 11:38:26 PM »
There's absolutely nothing like COH out there. Champions Online..bears similarities in some places, but that's it. DC Universe Online is big, but is centered on your regular DC Universe heroes. As is Marvel's online game.

That just leaves the two 'Plan Z' projects being worked on.
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dwturducken

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 01:04:29 AM »
Three. :)

Valiance Online is an adaptation of an existing fantasy project that is being retooled for a spandex setting. It's actually further along and showing quite a bit of promise, even in a pre-alpha state.
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JaguarX

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 01:09:35 AM »
Three. :)

Valiance Online is an adaptation of an existing fantasy project that is being retooled for a spandex setting. It's actually further along and showing quite a bit of promise, even in a pre-alpha state.
yup.

Tenzhi

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 10:48:11 AM »

In COX I didnt find it so easy to find teams and usually had to make my own, while in many other games I barely can log in for 2 minutes without invites coming in.

Back when I joined CoH (around issue 4), on Virtue I'd get invites within a few minutes of logging in.  However, that hadn't been the case for at least a couple of years when the servers shut down.  And when the invites aren't pouring forth as I passively await them, it has ceased to be where it's easy for me to get a team. 

No other game has had quite such an easy-to-team environment, in my experience, as CoH in those early years.  Nor has teaming with total strangers proved to be as much fun as it was there (for the most part).
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JaguarX

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 01:16:09 PM »
Back when I joined CoH (around issue 4), on Virtue I'd get invites within a few minutes of logging in.  However, that hadn't been the case for at least a couple of years when the servers shut down.  And when the invites aren't pouring forth as I passively await them, it has ceased to be where it's easy for me to get a team. 

No other game has had quite such an easy-to-team environment, in my experience, as CoH in those early years.  Nor has teaming with total strangers proved to be as much fun as it was there (for the most part).
oh yeah, the early years were the golden years. When people played for and teamed for the ehll of it and not merely to farm and or do a speed run to get through the content as fast as possible because content was a big chore standing in the way of badges.

I do miss those days.


MisterKitty

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 02:50:51 PM »
Yup, the first 3 or 4 years were the best for teaming with PUGs...rarely did I get a bad group, and even then if I did, I could easily find another.

I've been trying out a whole bunch of MMOs, and none seem to have that combination of wonderful social mechanics as well as interesting combat and storylines.

I have so so many fond memories of CoH...nothing else seems to cut it.

Mister K

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2013, 03:25:49 PM »
It's been mentioned before, but Champions Online is the closest I've found.  And it's stil a long, long way away.  I only played it for two months, and then got bored.  (And not just because "it's not CoH")

Also as I said elsewhere on these forums, CoH was so unique that when I ask around in general MMO groups for a game like it, my lists of "favorite features from CoH" is taken to be some sort of made-up wishlist of features that have never existed in any game.  It was just THAT different.

JaguarX

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2013, 06:37:45 PM »
It's been mentioned before, but Champions Online is the closest I've found.  And it's stil a long, long way away.  I only played it for two months, and then got bored.  (And not just because "it's not CoH")

Also as I said elsewhere on these forums, CoH was so unique that when I ask around in general MMO groups for a game like it, my lists of "favorite features from CoH" is taken to be some sort of made-up wishlist of features that have never existed in any game.  It was just THAT different.
Yup.


Unfortunately this is experience of that downside to being unique. When it was up and running, it's wonderful, nothing like the game of COX. But now we know what happens if that or a unique game goes away. Then what? There is not another one. Like if a person play a generic fantasy game, that one closes they can hop to the next one that is near identical except with different location, names, looks (possible) and name of the classes but over all the same as the old one. With COX, there isnt a copy of it...yet. CO could have been, and what happened with CO oculd have happened with any group of devs. We lucked out to get some good ones and or the good ones that had power to say yea or nay and continued development that worked, some accidential, but worked nonetheless overall.

I think with COX gorup of devs, especially after foriming of paragon studios and Posi at least seemingly running the joint, that group could have made any game better with merely the way that they operated. Yeah I know sometimes funds are tight or not enough from the owners, but in CO, it's like pulling teeth to get information or what's next, besides things that came across Turtle's desk. We had Zwill. but that didnt stop the devs from talking themselves or releasing information about what was going on for the most part. A simple "Hey guys, times are tough, things are down, but we are working on this and that" like they did in COX works wonders. In CO, they held a half butt Q&A. In COX, everyday was Q&A. Sometimes the answers were simply, "No, we cant do that at this time due to limitations." like COX devs did with all sorts of ideas from animal models to new powers. But lo and behold they went to work tried it and we eventually got animal modeled pets and demons, two ideas that been floating around since I7 and maybe prior when people was throwing around the idea of "wish I could play a villain." in I5. Of course at the time it was dismissed as "Then why are you playing a game around heroes if you wanto be villains" by more than a few people but by I7, COV was released live.

Even with bugs, they stated what they was doing even if theycouldnt fix it like the base system, as it was said fro mthe devs themselves that they wanted to fix it but it tends to break orsomething of the likes. There wasnt a mass evacuation of the game. Most players just went, "Hey thanks for the reply. Well I'll work with what I got. In CO, people been wondering what is going on for years and it's been getting to the feeling as if the devs forsaken them. If that team of devs were on COX with that same method and attitude, it would have been in the same boat and if Posi and his crew was on CO with that method they employed, CO would have been more like COX, whether the gameplay stayed exactly the same or not. Communication is under rated dev-customer but it makes a huge difference. Most players can handle the truth and will make things work if given something to work with. In CO, it's mostly silence from the devs. The players have more repsect for Turtle than the unknown devs merely do to communication. If a dev came out and said, "hey we want to add new features but dont have resources, and can only do temp content and lockboxes because of xyz." then I bet most players in CO will try to solve xyz to get the ball rolling.

In COX, it seemed that most of the time, the players knew what the devs l new with things. Someone or people asked, "Say, why is this thing still broke?" 90% of the time soon, there will be an answer from a dev or a message from them through Zwill. or his equivalent. In CO, they barely answer their own tech support line, and dont think a dev posted in the CO forum in at leats a year it looks like. It's liek they dont even ready the forums at all and have no connection between the players and themselves. In large games with millions of players, it's understandable as that is a large group of people to deal with and lot of info. and voices. But CO isnt that big and more than likely smaller than COX. What is their excuse. Dont need money to talk to the customers. And that is one the main reasons why I think CO have potential to be proper alternative to COX but will never be at this rate.

I think most players can and do understand times are hard, it takes money to run a game, crap happens, devs cant work miracles, but at least say so. Or what else do they expect? People will still talk and go with information they have and will ask the same question and concern from three years ago today if it was never addressed in any manner, and after askign about the same bugs over and over and over that affect gameplay, it make it hard for some people to be optimistic and cheery for years with nothing in return to show for it. It used to be cheery and optimistic but understandably it diminished. Unfortunately now, many COX players float over there now and see this and say, Oh they are more negative than COX community." without thinking deeper of how that came to be.

LadyShin

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 09:34:03 PM »
oh yeah, the early years were the golden years. When people played for and teamed for the ehll of it and not merely to farm and or do a speed run to get through the content as fast as possible because content was a big chore standing in the way of badges.

I do miss those days.

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As for content, I really did enjoy the Mot story arc. I thought my mind was going!!
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Dollhouse

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2013, 12:42:33 AM »
It's been mentioned before, but Champions Online is the closest I've found.

Hmmm...I really just don't see that similarity. Not in terms of what the OP was talking about, anyway (teaming and instancing). I played CO for the whole of the beta and for the first six months after go-live, plus another month just after CoH went dark...and I don't think I ever teamed with anyone I didn't know from other games. The social tools are terrible. And the first couple of time I had to wait around with a bunch of other characters to try to be the "first twitcher" to tag a mission-required respawn told me there wasn't enough instancing in that game.

Now I'd have to agree that CO is the closest thing to CoH in terms of the "spandex factor," but that's not what the OP was referring to.

Mistress Urd

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2013, 12:54:41 AM »
I miss CoH a lot.

Since nothing out there even seems close to me, I moved to EVE Online which is probably the furthest thing from CoH. I was finding games where the basics were similar to CoH but fall so far short despite being much newer and should have learned from the mistakes made in other MMOs while at the same time holding up to the standards which we come to expect.

Frankly we were spoiled by CoH. Now we suffer with the rest of the MMO world.  :P

Golden Girl

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2013, 03:11:54 AM »
The answer is "no" - followed by "not yet" ;)
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Mistress Urd

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2013, 05:41:12 AM »
Can't wait for your game Betty.  ;)

Thunder Glove

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2013, 03:03:30 PM »
Hmmm...I really just don't see that similarity. Not in terms of what the OP was talking about, anyway (teaming and instancing). I played CO for the whole of the beta and for the first six months after go-live, plus another month just after CoH went dark...and I don't think I ever teamed with anyone I didn't know from other games. The social tools are terrible. And the first couple of time I had to wait around with a bunch of other characters to try to be the "first twitcher" to tag a mission-required respawn told me there wasn't enough instancing in that game.

Now I'd have to agree that CO is the closest thing to CoH in terms of the "spandex factor," but that's not what the OP was referring to.

Teaming, maybe, (I honestly didn't really try for many teams, outside of the occasional Alert) but it's the only other game I've ever played with any instanced missions at all.  (Or, for that matter, any "missions" in the CoH sense at all) It didn't have as many instanced missions, but it did have some, about 50/50 I'd estimate.  Every other MMO I've played (which, granted, hasn't been that many) has no instanced missions/quests, and while 50% instanced missions may not be as much as CoH had, it's more than the 0% every other game I've tried has.

And that's what I meant by "closer".

Floride

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2013, 09:16:47 AM »
As far as game mechanics, it seems like Cryptic basically copied CoH when they made Star Trek Online. I tried it for a couple weeks and knowing my way around CoH I was easily able to find my way through STO. It isn't hero-ish, and they did change the way invites work (careful or you'll end up on a team automatically), but you control a crew similar to a Mastermind in CoV. The tutorial was absolutely brilliant, imo. If you haven't tried it, it might be what you're looking for.

On a side note, STO made me wonder if this is how CoX would've ended up had Cryptic kept developing it instead of Paragon Studios. Kind of like an alternate timeline. Hmmm... Star Trek.... and an alternate timeline... hmmm....
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DBadger

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2013, 10:11:44 AM »
There are some games that tick some boxes but not others.

DDO is the most heavily instanced game out there but joining Pugs isn't really valid any more, it's become a lot more about the guild you are in and running with them. The good old days when everyone pugged everything are long gone.

Rift has easy access to groups, via instant adventures, or public groups running events, and the ability to mentor down to any level you choose (though no sidekicking) but the only instances require specific groups (tank, healer, dps x 2, support) so can be a pain to get going

Personally I'm fed up with the current trend in MMOs to remove any social interaction by having a LFG queue. Hate it with a passion, most of my MMO friends were made when you had to actually talk to people. One of the main reasons I miss COH is the social interaction, as people used to actually talk on groups.

JaguarX

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2013, 06:22:57 AM »
There are some games that tick some boxes but not others.

DDO is the most heavily instanced game out there but joining Pugs isn't really valid any more, it's become a lot more about the guild you are in and running with them. The good old days when everyone pugged everything are long gone.

Rift has easy access to groups, via instant adventures, or public groups running events, and the ability to mentor down to any level you choose (though no sidekicking) but the only instances require specific groups (tank, healer, dps x 2, support) so can be a pain to get going

Personally I'm fed up with the current trend in MMOs to remove any social interaction by having a LFG queue. Hate it with a passion, most of my MMO friends were made when you had to actually talk to people. One of the main reasons I miss COH is the social interaction, as people used to actually talk on groups.
yeah it might be the way society is going as a whole. More impersonal contact. Used to actually go outside and have to meet people in the neighborhood and make friends, now people meet on Facebook and twitter.

Hell some people refuse to talk on a telephone and will never reply unless ya text them and will try to carry an entire conversation through text message.

But it's probably made LFG ques a bit easier for people that may be more socially shy. Sure for someone that can jump from game to game party to party and make 20 friends in 10 minutes flat, it's easy to say "Well, just get out there and make friends." But for someone who is not as socially inclined, that may be easier said than done. Charisma is sometimes something a person have or don't. Many people who say in game "just go out there and make friends" are the same ones that are terrified to move from the wall at a party they don't know anyone and speak to someone. While some people in real life that can be in a crowd of strangers and strike up a convo gets the jitters when online.

 Many people play games in the first place because their real social life leaves lots to be desired. Also LFG do help with mixing up the population. Doing it the old way do foster cliques. In many games with old team methods, some people join a game, make a few buddies and go no further and refuse to talk to or team with people outside that group. Which can make finding a team for a new person even more daunting than it needs to be.

LadyShin

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2014, 06:55:06 PM »
Bum-diddly-bump bump. 

Still looking to hear if the three projects going on now is all there is...  :-[
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Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2014, 07:56:05 PM »
Once you get used to the Controls, I've found Neverwinter to be a lot like COH. The Control Wizard actually has useful Controls that last more than 2 seconds unlike mother games. :D

LadyShin

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2014, 07:30:17 AM »
You mean the control freak that was both hated and loved inside the cavern missions? Four trollers and two tanks, and oddly the trollers were always the ones in front.


Because they had 60 some odd lackeys blocking the tunnels.


We called them 'trollers' for a reason...  :o
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Aggelakis

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2014, 06:15:06 PM »
You mean the control freak that was both hated and loved inside the cavern missions? Four trollers and two tanks, and oddly the trollers were always the ones in front.


Because they had 60 some odd lackeys blocking the tunnels.


We called them 'trollers' for a reason...  :o
I am trying really, really hard to find a connection between your post and Kaos Arcanna's. Because what he says has nothing to do with what you replied with. O.o;
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Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2014, 08:01:20 PM »
I think it might have been because of my typo.

I was thinking "Other Games" and typed "Mother Games."

Maybe they were thinking Mother Mayhem Incarnate stuff?

wyldhunt

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2014, 08:49:35 PM »
I find myself (somewhat reluctantly) agreeing with Kaos Arcana about Neverwinter Online.

First, the differences: 1) no sub option (that's alright, I can limit myself to an average of $15/month expenditures on the game), 2) no superhero travel powers (which is a HUGE difference, however the detailed environment helps mitigate this), 3) limited character creator (nothing to mitigate this really), 4) fantasy rather than superhero genre, 5) choose a single class with skill trees rather than mixing two powersets for the archetype.

Now, the single biggest similarity: combat flow. I've tried around a dozen non-CoX MMOs, and either their combat was way too static and slow (TSW, even with the "action" elements) or fast (CO, in which non-SVs drop like flies, and DPS is an absolute dictator). I hope the combat flow I've experienced (up to level 40, quest content), stays with the end-game, even with the perception that tanks just slow a team down (sounds familiar to some opinions in CoX). I find the combat visceral (in that I'm always involved doing something), and satisfying (in that enemies are tough and still vanquishable with the right tools/skill). It is the combat flow which is the primary reason I returned to CoX multiple times, and ended up staying to the end. The character creator, travel powers, etc. were good reasons, however since most of the game time was combat, that was the primary consideration. NWO may finally be the MMO which meets the same standard.

Of course, if any of the CoX-successor projects gets to open beta, or if CoX itself is brought back, I'll likely leave NWO pretty quickly. Until then, I'm @wyldhaunt in NWO.
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LadyShin

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2014, 10:39:21 PM »
One thing I've found with COH... Level 50 Stalker can tank with the best of them (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Ninjitsu#Kuji-In_Retsu) For a short time anyway then the stalker crashes and burns for two minutes. Ouch.

The upside, I was able to tank AV's by myself. Then run and hide in between battles to recharge.  ;)
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Dollhouse

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2014, 02:05:28 AM »
One thing I've found with COH... Level 50 Stalker can tank with the best of them (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Ninjitsu#Kuji-In_Retsu) For a short time anyway then the stalker crashes and burns for two minutes. Ouch.

The upside, I was able to tank AV's by myself. Then run and hide in between battles to recharge.  ;)

Stalkers were my redside go-to. I build all of mine to "stick around and fight," not do the AS > Placate > beat feet thing. The Ninjitsu secondary was, IMO, the best secondary for this, by a big margin. Retsu was kind of a SHTF last resort for me. The set's other aggro mitigators plus that lovely self heal were the stars of the show. Multiple solo AV takedowns with my built-to-the-gills* Elec/Nin "Clockwork" Stalker...

*Many purple sets, full T4, etc...but no Shivans/Nukes...

LadyShin

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2014, 02:38:08 PM »
Once you get used to the Controls, I've found Neverwinter to be a lot like COH. The Control Wizard actually has useful Controls that last more than 2 seconds unlike mother games. :D

This is where I got confused, having never played Neverwinter, I thought Kaos was referring to the Control archetype in City of Heroes, especially since there's the consensus that the two games are a lot alike.
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Aggelakis

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2014, 02:25:39 AM »
This is where I got confused, having never played Neverwinter, I thought Kaos was referring to the Control archetype in City of Heroes, especially since there's the consensus that the two games are a lot alike.
City's control-support archetype is called "Controller" not "Control" (thus why they were often called "trollers" - it's just a shortening of the term, like Def or Corr).

Neverwinter has a class called "Control Wizard" - it's a mage with heavy emphasis on frost and arcane magic, with lots of freezing (immobs and holds), slows, and knockback. It really does play dramatically like a Controller from City, other than actually playing the game being different.
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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2014, 03:01:31 PM »
are the NWO controls ok for folk? Not too Twitchy?

wyldhunt

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2014, 06:29:48 PM »
are the NWO controls ok for folk? Not too Twitchy?
Speaking strictly for myself, of course: I do prefer the setup of CoX in many ways. I like tab-targeting, especially in a superhero game, as my avatar should be capable of quickly picking out that pesky Malta Sapper with superhuman accuracy (which isn't dependent upon my excellent yet 47-year-old reflexes). I also like having a lot of abilities at my beck-and-call, and dislike the current fad of limiting the number of powers which can be available at a time. Batman had many more gadgets available at any time than NWO would allow, and both Dr. Strange and Iron Man would never allow themselves to be so limited. I'm not sure about NWO's targeting for single-target heals - I hear from others that its harsh, and don't yet have a Devoted Cleric myself. The most annoying foe so far is the Foulspawn Seer - she teleports around like Nightcrawler and is a pain for a Great Weapon Fighter to finish off; this would have been true for CoX meleers as well.

That said, I can manage the NWO controls just fine. I've played many FPS games, and grew up in the 70s/80s arcades. The one thing I like about the CO and NWO controls is one-press many-strikes attacks, including the NWO At-wills and the CO Maintains/Energy Builders. I do hope that CoX successor games allow for At-will and Maintain style combat powers.
Wyldhunt
Guardianite since I2
Playing as Wyldhaunt on Rebirth

Aggelakis

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Re: Any others close?
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2014, 07:41:39 PM »
are the NWO controls ok for folk? Not too Twitchy?
Not very twitchy at all. And you can hold a target by pressing and holding the CTRL button, which means your targeted stuff will go off that critter and your camera/character will automatically turn to continue facing them if they move around. A lot of the time you won't want to do that because critters swarm pretty regularly, and most of the powers in the game are either AOE or cone, so you want to have a general targeted area instead of a specific targeted critter.
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