Author Topic: Handicapped Parking and YOU.  (Read 12142 times)

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« on: May 17, 2013, 04:54:40 AM »
Well, not YOU, but the guy who tried to park there... and was not handicapped.
 
I had just pulled in to a restaurant parking lot space, and got out of my car.  And a minivan pulled in a few spots down.. where I *didn't* park, because lo and behold, it's a handicapped spot.  I saw it, so I didn't park there.  It is of course, closer to the door.
 
So, as I said, I had gotten out of the car, and I wandered over to the van... no handicapped plate... don't see the placard in the windshield... here comes solo driver man... He sees me.
 
So I stop.  I look at him dead in the eyes.  Then his van.  Then the ground where the painting of the wheelchair character is... then back to his eyes...
 
"Oh," says he.
 
That's all that's said between us.  He turns and goes back to get in the van.  I just walked into the restaurant, and didn't even speak or glance back.  But after I ordered at the counter, I look back... sure enough he's moved elsewhere.
 
Freakin'.  Awesome.
 
See, my mom and dad have legitimate need of these spaces.  So it's a particular pet peeve of mine, and I *do* look for those who are being inconsiderate.  I myself never use them, unless I'm with them and they actually get out of the car.
 
I know it wasn't a big accomplishment or anything.  I've done something MUCH more hero-like than this.  And I coulda got myself shot or such for questioning the guy... But still...
 
I felt like a Big Damn Hero.  For my parents or someone who needs that spot than that guy or me.
 
Shiny.
 
/Hadda tell story.  Thanks! :)

Aggelakis

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,001
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 05:09:16 AM »
We had a dude in the shop today who parked in the handicapped spot. A customer commented on it and he got really abusive and said "the whole handicap thing" was "a farce" and that it "infringed on privacy" (WHAT???).

One of the other customers took a picture with his phone and sent it to the local PD email tip line. That dude's gonna get a $250 fine in the mail soon! ;)
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


ParagonWiki
OuroPortal

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 05:09:41 AM »
Yea!  Thank you, my Mom and Dad are also in need of such spots.  I'm afraid to confront those because I'm likely to do something like assist them with qualifying for one, well back in the day before I blew a brain fuse.  I don't need one myself on most days but occasionally when my leg is being stubborn I wish I would qualify, just for those days.

Again thanks.  I now limited to make snarky remarks at the grocer about how my friend's 4 year old can count up to twelve no problem.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Tanklet

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2013, 10:13:01 AM »
WTG!!!!

It's a huge pet peeve of mine too. I'm not handicapped, nor am I really close to people who genuinely are and need those spots. But even being the lazy lump I am, I KNOW there are people who truly genuinely need those spaces. Sure, I'll park in the first legal spot next to a handicapped spot if I'm feeling particularly lazy. But NEVER IN A HANDICAPPED SPOT. There's no reason for it. There's no excuse for it.

Tanklet

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2013, 10:14:38 AM »
"the whole handicap thing" was "a farce" and that it "infringed on privacy" (WHAT???).


 :o
Just goes to show ... you can't reason with crazy  :roll:

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2013, 01:24:33 PM »
Well, not YOU, but the guy who tried to park there... and was not handicapped.
 
I had just pulled in to a restaurant parking lot space, and got out of my car.  And a minivan pulled in a few spots down.. where I *didn't* park, because lo and behold, it's a handicapped spot.  I saw it, so I didn't park there.  It is of course, closer to the door.
 
So, as I said, I had gotten out of the car, and I wandered over to the van... no handicapped plate... don't see the placard in the windshield... here comes solo driver man... He sees me.
 
So I stop.  I look at him dead in the eyes.  Then his van.  Then the ground where the painting of the wheelchair character is... then back to his eyes...
 
"Oh," says he.
 
That's all that's said between us.  He turns and goes back to get in the van.  I just walked into the restaurant, and didn't even speak or glance back.  But after I ordered at the counter, I look back... sure enough he's moved elsewhere.
 
Freakin'.  Awesome.
 
See, my mom and dad have legitimate need of these spaces.  So it's a particular pet peeve of mine, and I *do* look for those who are being inconsiderate.  I myself never use them, unless I'm with them and they actually get out of the car.
 
I know it wasn't a big accomplishment or anything.  I've done something MUCH more hero-like than this.  And I coulda got myself shot or such for questioning the guy... But still...
 
I felt like a Big Damn Hero.  For my parents or someone who needs that spot than that guy or me.
 
Shiny.
 
/Hadda tell story.  Thanks! :)

See that shows ya dont have to be butt with words to get point across. Some people think because they are right that gives them license to talk to people in crazy manner. And yeah that is when things get ugly and many times they died but hey all that mattered was that they was right and the guy that murked them got off and not even ticket for parking in handicap space. But hey the dead guy was right and that's most important right?

Yeah to get point across all it takes is a look and its done. 


Oh and don't talk about someone else parking and yaself parked wrong in in a no parking fire lane zone. Then that is not being right that is being a snob quick to point out wrong doing of others and blind to their own fault. Seen that happen before  and while the guy was badgering a guy in the handicap spot going off about obeying laws his own car was getting towed. Too bad he was so busy being right he didn't see it and the guy he was tearing into didn't bother to tell him. Illegal handicap parked no ticket but verbal abuse. The right guy 250 ticket and 300 tow/impound fee. But hey he was right that is all that matters, right?

GuyPerfect

  • Mary Poppins
  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2013, 02:23:48 PM »
An even bigger peeve of mine is the people who don't need handicap spots parking in handicap spots, not illegally, but because they happen to have a permit. Sure, you might occasionally drive around poor Jimmy with his broken leg, but the 90% of the time that you don't, you can be considerate to people who DO need those parking spaces, thank you very much.

Whenever I see a car with a permit where the sole occupant is the driver, I think to myself, "Okay, so it's not a *physical* handicap..."

It's generally easy to identify such drivers even when they're *not* in the vehicle. The slobs just don't care: they'll park at any old angle because of the extra room afforded by the--shocking detail here--space provided for disabled people.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2013, 02:44:48 PM »
An even bigger peeve of mine is the people who don't need handicap spots parking in handicap spots, not illegally, but because they happen to have a permit. Sure, you might occasionally drive around poor Jimmy with his broken leg, but the 90% of the time that you don't, you can be considerate to people who DO need those parking spaces, thank you very much.

Whenever I see a car with a permit where the sole occupant is the driver, I think to myself, "Okay, so it's not a *physical* handicap..."

It's generally easy to identify such drivers even when they're *not* in the vehicle. The slobs just don't care: they'll park at any old angle because of the extra room afforded by the--shocking detail here--space provided for disabled people.

Yeah but sometimes appearance and age is not good indicator especially around here, a military base where solider deploy and high retiree population.

And some handicap people, especially ones that are single must drive or else they'll sit in their house and starve and needing a handicap sticker does not mean they cannot drive.


For example I had a temorary one, they wanted to give me a perma one, but I declined, for an injury. With clothes on the injury was not apparant or even visible. But what do they know, many never ask, just give hard time about how I'm young and dont need it, and could walk just fine, and ironically ignoring the cane I had, although a nice one with the Jaguar Leaper it was not for decoration and used for walking. And yeah, they kept on and on and on until I tell them, ok I served my country, right now I can barely feel my leg (luckily not my driving leg or I would have been screwed), my back hurts like hell, I'm barely 27 (at the time) but feel like a 70 year old and you wouldnt have known that until I told you but instead of assuming, why not ask first instead of judging?" usually they just cant say much besides apologizing, and saying thanks for serving. 
But yeah even then I only used it forwhen the pain got bad days and I'm single meaning many times I had no choice but to go out and get what I needed to be done and if I'm parking in the handicap spot that means I'm in pain, probably on edge, and not clowing aroudn trying to get in and out without being hassled over some self righteous prick judging by appearances.

When things got better and not much issues after a pretty long physcial therapy sessions, I dont use it didnt bother to reapply, and park in normal spaces. Even with the my VA disability percentage by definition I can get Disabled Vet. plates and here in El Paso, Texas at least, that is automatic rights to park in Handicap spot. But I didnt. I dont think I need it even though I fit the requirement. Point is never judge by appearances because medical conditions isnt always by age and physical looks. And just because they are old doesnt mean they need or should park in the handicap spot either and just because they are young doesnt mean they are not injured or permanently disabled in some manner. 

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2013, 03:58:02 PM »
My parents have a handicap license on Mom's car and a hang-tag we transfer from van to van or sometimes to my car. Both are for my siblings with cerebral palsy. The extra room is very needed to get the one out of the car, and the nearness to the store is even more needed with the other, as she's mentally rather special and it can get dangerous to walk longer distances through parking lots full of people not paying attention.

Add in her tendency to throw tantrums when getting in and out of a car, and I'm sure those whose doors don't get dinged by her knocking the not-open-wide-enough door into theirs are grateful.

I've never gotten dirty looks for parking with them, but Mom has until she helped one of them out. And once got chewed out at a special school district school for parking in the handicapped spot when she was alone. Why did she do it? Because she was picking up the one who needed it, and was going into the school to get him.

Generally speaking, I find it not worthwhile to deride people who park in them. Especially legally-but-without-apparent-need. Because who am I to judge? I don't know why they have it or might need it.

JetFlash

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 100
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2013, 06:35:35 PM »
I figure that if they have the handicapped sticker or whatever then they are entitled to park there.  No muss, no fuss.  I don't care if they don't "look" like they need it.

eabrace

  • Titan Moderator
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,292
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 08:13:34 PM »
I figure that if they have the handicapped sticker or whatever then they are entitled to park there.  No muss, no fuss.  I don't care if they don't "look" like they need it.
Agreed.

I know someone with knee problems (from a botched surgery while in the Army) that make any amount of going up and down steps (including - but not limited to - stepping up onto or down off of a curb) excruciatingly painful.  She usually appears walk quite normally otherwise (some days are better than others), so it would be easy to look at her and judge her to be without any need for a handicapped space.

I always feel like an ass when one of us is visiting the other, we take my car somewhere, and I pull into a parking spot out in the back 40 out of habit.  I at least try to remember to let her off at the door before I go park the car if we don't have her temporary tag with us.
Titan Twitter broadcasting at 5.000 mWh and growing.
Titan Facebook

Paragon Wiki admin
I was once being interviewed by Barbara Walters...In between two of the segments she asked me..."But what would you do if the doctor gave you only six months to live?" I said, "Type faster." - Isaac Asimov

Stunrunner

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2013, 01:38:27 AM »
There's a Safeway by my house that had a handicapped spot near the front in one parking aisle.  Then, a few years back, they decided to move the spot to the next aisle over.  So, they painted over the handicapped square, painted a new one on the new designated spot, and put up a pole with a handicapped sign.

Now, the cheap paint they used on the old spot is starting to come off, so it looks like a handicapped spot, when it isn't anymore.  My mom likes to park in it, and I'm always worried her car will get keyed by some idiot.

Botzo

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2013, 02:35:02 AM »
While that guy seemed to clearly understand what they did, some people do park there on accident on times especially if the paint is faded and the sign is down. Not saying that it's right either. It's like my Dad. He's 65. He acts and moves better than people in their 30s. But on occasion his age gets the best of his sight and he'll do it on accident. And kinda because my (now past away) mother was handicapped and we had a placard for our mirror for her.

Just never take a job requiring you to drive all day. I started working for the post office about 4 weeks ago and I swear 90% of all people NEED to go to traffic school. I really wish I could take a camera with me and bust all the terrible drivers. Worst thing is I swear that if everyone would drive sensibly, maybe people wouldn't have to fight to be on time.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2013, 02:48:57 AM »
While that guy seemed to clearly understand what they did, some people do park there on accident on times especially if the paint is faded and the sign is down. Not saying that it's right either. It's like my Dad. He's 65. He acts and moves better than people in their 30s. But on occasion his age gets the best of his sight and he'll do it on accident. And kinda because my (now past away) mother was handicapped and we had a placard for our mirror for her.

Just never take a job requiring you to drive all day. I started working for the post office about 4 weeks ago and I swear 90% of all people NEED to go to traffic school. I really wish I could take a camera with me and bust all the terrible drivers. Worst thing is I swear that if everyone would drive sensibly, maybe people wouldn't have to fight to be on time.

I dont think there is enough film or memory cards in the world to catch them all here in El Paso alone. ANy given time they said that 50% of people have no car insurance, no dirver's license, driving heavily, keyword-heavily, under the influence of alcohol, or a combination of all three. El Paso have the highest drunk driving rates in America and the highest uninsured motorists operating a vehicle in the United States. And if you see the way these yokles drive, geesh. Stop on green, speed through red. Ignore stop signs, but slam on brakes and come to complete stop before making any right hand turn into a parking lot, and of course never use a blinker and if use of blinker never turn in the direction the blinker is indicating, and of course never stay in one lane and drive at least 15 mph under (dont want to bring attention to yourself speeding while ya smuggling something :P. No wonder so many of them get caught. ) Oh yeah, and make sure you ding up any car that dont have a ding on it already. It's the right of passage of being an El Paso residence, some way some how, someone will run into your car and speed right off (only time they drive fast to escape the crime scene.).


If you have a nice car and love it without a scratch stay away from El Paso. Now matter where you park no matter where you go, someone will hit it and claim to not be able to understand English if you manage to prevent their escape. Well that is until you say you're calling the cops and then they speak English to perfection.

healix

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,695
  • Every good friend was once a stranger
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2013, 04:50:49 AM »
Houtie, you are my hero!!


I have some special 'cards' that I printed out for those kind of thoughtless pancakeheads.....I keep them in my purse at all times, and leave one under the offender's windshield wiper


Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

Ice Trix

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 184
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2013, 09:56:04 AM »
:o
Just goes to show ... you can't reason with crazy  :roll:

On that,  Penn & Teller do an interesting bullshit episode on handicap parking where they examine that attitude (handicap parking spots being disrespectful to handicapped),

My mother has a handicap tag, and often solo drives. I'd be very irate at saying saying she didn't merit the treatment. Her ability to walk without aid is almost nil.
Looking at someone is not an effective method of determining disability.

Oh and nice work houtex.

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2013, 12:36:47 PM »
Where on earth does the logic even come in that handicap spaces are disrespectful to handicapped people?

I mean, I can't even see the logic. Is it based on some pretense that handicapped people don't have any difficulty moving around?

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2013, 01:30:14 AM »
Actually, I can answer that one, Segev, from my parent's point of view..

My father and mother, both of whom merit the use of a card or plate (he uses braces and crutches, she is legally blind) for the longest time refused to use them.  Dad would simply walk wherever he wanted to go, and if that meant parking farther than those spaces, allrighty then.  Mom, as long as you could guide her, or she really *really* knew her way around, also would just walk around.  Heck, she drug us kids around malls no problem, but still had to have us read things (which was somewhat uncomfortable when you're a male teenager and it's the tags on... well, intimate items.  But someone had to do it, so I did, when asked.  Is what it is.)

Mom just liked walking.  Still does.  So it simply doesn't matter to her to have the card.

Dad just didn't want one.  He figured he could do whatever a person without braces and crutches could do.  And frequently does just that.  He once solo'd an 8 foot barn door mounting.  Still won't tell us how he did it.  Took three of us boys to put the other one up.  He does that, making us look bad.  :roll:    And if you want a race, prepare to lose, he's got four legs. :)  But eventually, he finally got a placard.  We just said "about time, you deserve it, man."

Just for the record, they are awesome people.  And my heroes.  I don't think I tell them enough, but when I do, they go "oh, shut up" or such like that, as they never aspire to be anything but themselves. 

Doesn't change the fact they're awesome.

Ok, gushiness over.  Love them 'rents.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 01:55:05 AM by houtex »

TonyV

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • Paragon Wiki
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2013, 08:12:46 AM »
An even bigger peeve of mine is the people who don't need handicap spots parking in handicap spots, not illegally, but because they happen to have a permit. Sure, you might occasionally drive around poor Jimmy with his broken leg, but the 90% of the time that you don't, you can be considerate to people who DO need those parking spaces, thank you very much.

Yeah, don't judge people by appearance.  I was in this situation about three years ago when I was having my back problems.  After tolerating it as best as I could for a few months, I had gotten to the point where walking around was excruciatingly painful.  Funny thing about social norms, though; people who are in excruciating pain generally do their best not to contort and constantly yell, "OOOOWWW!!!"  We generally do our best to look as "normal" as possible unless we just plain can't.  So I got a temporary placard to use for the three months or so leading up to my surgery.  I suspect that the only indication that I was handicapped at the time was that I was a bit slow getting out of the car, but believe me, not having to walk across a parking lot was the difference between me being able to go to the grocery store or having to stay home, and although I might have been walking pretty normally or with a slight limp, I felt like someone was constantly stabbing me in the back with a screwdriver and twisting it as I walked.

After I had my surgery, I still kept the placard for three months while I was recovering.  At that point, I didn't really care because I was in a back brace and it was obvious that there was something going on with me.  After my recovery period and things got back to normal, I took it in the house and filed it away with other mementos of my life experience, and I was all-too-happy to be parking in the far-away spaces again if for no other reason than, as silly as it sounds, I was physically able to and never wanted to take that for granted again.

Ice Trix

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 184
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2013, 12:17:08 PM »
Where on earth does the logic even come in that handicap spaces are disrespectful to handicapped people?

I mean, I can't even see the logic. Is it based on some pretense that handicapped people don't have any difficulty moving around?
Note I personally disagree with P&T on this, and I'm not sure of every detail - was quite a few years ago, but a lot of it was about
- Making a law to enforce compassion doesn't work. It would be respectful if it came from heart not legal threats.
- Insert clips of exceptional talented physically disabled people playing basketball
- Interviews of physically handicapped people who are annoyed at being treated like special snowflakes
- Example of the disability act being potentially misapplied (e.g. braille letters on drive through area signs)
- That handicap parking is only face service, makes people feel better like something has been done for those poor handicapped people when it only helps a percentage of handicapped people some of the time.
- Less about pretense they can move around, and more about they should be treated the same as an able bodied (i.e. no positive discrimination).

Most of the episode is on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOrDUrmRTis



 

Sailboat

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2013, 01:49:16 PM »
Ugh.  Long ago I worked for an international consulting company.  Their star trainers and motivational speakers did a lot of traveling.  One day they needed someone to drive to the airport and drop off a company car for a bigwig to arrive later that night;  they were short-handed and needed a second car to follow the company car so both drivers could return to the workplace, and I got asked to be the following driver.

The executive secretary drove to the airport, parked in the best handicapped spot right by the door, opened the glovebox, retrieved the company-maintained handicap parking pass for executives who want to park near the door, and got in  my car cool as a cucumber, just like she hadn't done anything wrong.

 >:(

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2013, 02:57:02 PM »
I can understand - disagree with, but understand - the "no positive discrimination" angle on it.

That it is "insulting to the handicapped" is farcical, however, because those who are capable and choose not to use it are free to do so, and nobody is going to gainsay them.

As well, most of the time, handicap spaces are a voluntary compassionate service provided by the proprietor of the store or other location. The "legal enforcement" is there to help him with his choice. He picks where and how many handicap spaces to grant, after all.

I can agree that braile on drive-thru signs is just plain dumb, and an example of lack of common sense in government regulation. I'm largely in favor of less government regulation overall.

Treating people as if they have identical needs is one of the great sins of modern "equality" mindsets. Worse, it often conflates with the foolish notion that everybody has a right to "equal" outcomes.

Every person is different. Every person is a "special snowflake." The handicapped spaces are not on an honor system, generally speaking, but it can only possibly be insulting to a handicapped person who feels compelled to use it by social pressure. I do not think such a thing exists. If you don't think you need it, don't use it. If you're able-bodied and saying it insults handicapped people, you're just looking for a way to excuse being a jerk. There is a fully demonstrable need for some people to have larger space to maneuver in while getting out, and to travel less distance across a parking lot.

The only way it could be insulting is if you told people who believed otherwise that they can't do it on their own. Since it's self-selecting, that statement is never being made by the presence of the handicapped spaces and laws protecting them.

GuyPerfect

  • Mary Poppins
  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,740
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2013, 04:34:50 PM »
As well, most of the time, handicap spaces are a voluntary compassionate service provided by the proprietor of the store or other location. The "legal enforcement" is there to help him with his choice. He picks where and how many handicap spaces to grant, after all.

In the United States, this statement is absolutely false. Section 4.1.2 of the Americans with Disabilities Act (federal law) Accessibility Guidelines state the minimum number of mandatory accessible parking spaces relative to the total number of parking spaces in the lot. Section 4.6 goes on to describe further requirements such as accessible parking space placement and designation.

The only scenario in which handicap parking is optional is when the number exceeds the minimum requirement. Anything greater than the minimum requirement is voluntary, but the spaces are still required to comply with section 4.6.

I can agree that braile on drive-thru signs is just plain dumb, and an example of lack of common sense in government regulation. I'm largely in favor of less government regulation overall.

This isn't a problem with the ADA (section 4.34), but rather that no one knows how to make an accessible ATM for the vision-impaired. But given a scenario where THAT problem were solved, and a blind man hires a chauffeur to drive him to the bank so he can use the ATM from the back seat, he... what, he should just be required to park and go inside instead? Is that your idea of common sense?

Accessibility laws notwithstanding, saying "oh gee, I never thought of THAT scenario" is, to put it bluntly, just plain dumb.

More reading on the subject from The Straight Dope:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-braille-on-drive-up-teller-machines

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2013, 04:41:38 PM »
Well the ATMs at my bank have voice instruction, same odd female synth voice found on GPSes.  It describes the location of where to find the card slot, the keypad, that the keypad is arranged like a phone, the location of the dispensing slot, etc.  With braille signage around them as well.  Yes, it's stupid to have it on a drive up ATM since now they are different models and layouts (and reinforced).
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2013, 06:23:20 PM »
In the United States, this statement is absolutely false. Section 4.1.2 of the Americans with Disabilities Act (federal law) Accessibility Guidelines state the minimum number of mandatory accessible parking spaces relative to the total number of parking spaces in the lot. Section 4.6 goes on to describe further requirements such as accessible parking space placement and designation.

The only scenario in which handicap parking is optional is when the number exceeds the minimum requirement. Anything greater than the minimum requirement is voluntary, but the spaces are still required to comply with section 4.6.
I stand corrected. Thanks!

This isn't a problem with the ADA (section 4.34), but rather that no one knows how to make an accessible ATM for the vision-impaired.
I never said ATMs shouldn't necessarily have it. I said "drive-thrus." Frankly, it would be silly to make ATMs for non-drive-thru that have it and ones for drive-thrus without, because mass production is benefitted by standardization

But given a scenario where THAT problem were solved, and a blind man hires a chauffeur to drive him to the bank so he can use the ATM from the back seat, he... what, he should just be required to park and go inside instead? Is that your idea of common sense?
Yes, because people who can afford chauffeurs so often drive through bank ATMs. That said, I can see a guy in a taxi needing to, perhaps.

Accessibility laws notwithstanding, saying "oh gee, I never thought of THAT scenario" is, to put it bluntly, just plain dumb.
Ah, so obviously we need to mandate that braille be put on every piece of writing everywhere, per the ADA, because otherwise a situation we didn't think of will come up.

I guarantee you, such situations will exist. There is always something nobody thought of...until somebody does.

Me? I'd rather not regulate nearly so much. Most of these things will evolve out of competition, if permitted. Or do you think your wealthy blind man will not take into account that one bank has an ATM that is more convenient for him than its competitor? Do you believe that a Wal*Mart that for some reason refuses to have handicapped spaces will not lose business to the CostCo that has them? (I'm pretty sure Wal*Mart actually exceeds minimum requirements for handicap spaces; I see a lot of excess space and unique arrangements of spaces designed to give them more room and accessibility than I do in other, comparable parking lots. There must be a reason.)

TimtheEnchanter

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,466
  • There are some who call me... Tim?
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2013, 07:06:55 PM »
I can't fathom how electronic eyes (for people, I mean) haven't become standard yet. They've been made, and we know they work. But even if they didn't, you'd think sensory augmentation would be an interesting new field of interest. The brain can learn to interpret practically any input sent to it.

eabrace

  • Titan Moderator
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,292
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2013, 08:26:16 PM »
I can't fathom how electronic eyes (for people, I mean) haven't become standard yet. They've been made, and we know they work.
They do work, but nowhere near well enough to read.  The best they've been able to manage so far is an eye that can detect light/dark.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/19/health/fda-bionic-eye
Titan Twitter broadcasting at 5.000 mWh and growing.
Titan Facebook

Paragon Wiki admin
I was once being interviewed by Barbara Walters...In between two of the segments she asked me..."But what would you do if the doctor gave you only six months to live?" I said, "Type faster." - Isaac Asimov

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2013, 09:13:43 PM »
I can't fathom how electronic eyes (for people, I mean) haven't become standard yet. They've been made, and we know they work. But even if they didn't, you'd think sensory augmentation would be an interesting new field of interest. The brain can learn to interpret practically any input sent to it.
That's a field I may eventually work in; but yeah, as the poster before me said, we don't yet have the tech to integrate these things well with the human brain. There are project working on it, though.

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2013, 10:23:28 PM »
And then there's the "Spidey Sense" suit.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21729056.700-spideysense-suit-tingles-when-someone-gets-too-close.html
That's really quite neat.

I've contemplated something similar, with a camera that fastens to a sort of wire spindly-comb. You slide the whole thing over your head from the back, so it clings to your head like a distorted hand, sort of. The camera looks behind you, and the comb-parts have various nodes that touch your scalp and vibrate to give a limited set of "pixels" from the camera to paint a very crude picture of what the camera sees. I doubt it would be good for anything but very rough detail, but it might be enough not to run into things while backing up, and to tell if somebody is walking up behind you.

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 04:35:51 AM »
Star Trek did it!  In "Is There in Truth No Beauty?", Dr. Miranda Jones is blind, but wears a sensor net, which allows her to 'see', much like Geordi LaForge can with his VISOR.  Not the same as actual eyes, but a lot of good useful information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is_There_in_Truth_No_Beauty%3F

Ice Trix

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 184
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2013, 09:48:36 AM »
This isn't a problem with the ADA (section 4.34), but rather that no one knows how to make an accessible ATM for the vision-impaired. But given a scenario where THAT problem were solved, and a blind man hires a chauffeur to drive him to the bank so he can use the ATM from the back seat, he... what, he should just be required to park and go inside instead? Is that your idea of common sense?

Accessibility laws notwithstanding, saying "oh gee, I never thought of THAT scenario" is, to put it bluntly, just plain dumb.

More reading on the subject from The Straight Dope:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/946/why-is-there-braille-on-drive-up-teller-machines

It's also easier (well cheaper) to mass produce things like keypads (inc braille) than make a special set without just for driv thru ATMs

johnrobey

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 952
  • CoH global: @Kristoff von Gelmini
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2013, 01:10:22 PM »
There is also medical progress being made re: hearing loss with the recent innovation of auditory brain implants (ABI's); these are far from perfect and still in development; however, just as with vision, many would agree that something may well be better than nothing. 

URLinks to related articles on ABI's:
http://www.asha.org/Publications/leader/2011/110315/Auditory-Brainstem-Implants/

http://www.houseearclinic.com/eardisease/auditorybrainstem

http://newsroom.hei.org/news/fda-approves-clinical-trial-of-242830

Wikipedia also has a nice article on this.

Back to the OP:  Houtex, you're AWESOME!!!!!!   Well done!!!!   8)
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2013, 02:09:23 AM »
No, my car is Awesome.  Says so on her license plate.  I am considerably ok-ish, though, but thanks, John. :)

By the by... Bringing up Awesome just reminded me of the thing I did yet again today.  I also gather shopping carts in the parking lots and put them up in the cart cage (whatever it's called) or take them with me inside, because
1) It irritates me that so many people are just that fracking lazy, and
2) I don't want them wandering into Awesome and putting a big ol' dent in her flank or such.

But I'm NOT tootin' my own horn on that.  Just my lil' pet peeve of OCDness. :)

/people think I work there sometimes...
//"Need a basket?" "Oh thanks!" *houtex glares with 'why didn't you bring your own you LAZY BASTIDGE...'*
///Ok, not really that last bit... sometimes it's 'A******'. :D

Joshex

  • [citation needed]
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,027
    • my talk page
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2013, 03:21:04 AM »
Well, not YOU, but the guy who tried to park there... and was not handicapped.
 
I had just pulled in to a restaurant parking lot space, and got out of my car.  And a minivan pulled in a few spots down.. where I *didn't* park, because lo and behold, it's a handicapped spot.  I saw it, so I didn't park there.  It is of course, closer to the door.
 
So, as I said, I had gotten out of the car, and I wandered over to the van... no handicapped plate... don't see the placard in the windshield... here comes solo driver man... He sees me.
 
So I stop.  I look at him dead in the eyes.  Then his van.  Then the ground where the painting of the wheelchair character is... then back to his eyes...
 
"Oh," says he.
 
That's all that's said between us.  He turns and goes back to get in the van.  I just walked into the restaurant, and didn't even speak or glance back.  But after I ordered at the counter, I look back... sure enough he's moved elsewhere.
 
Freakin'.  Awesome.
 
See, my mom and dad have legitimate need of these spaces.  So it's a particular pet peeve of mine, and I *do* look for those who are being inconsiderate.  I myself never use them, unless I'm with them and they actually get out of the car.
 
I know it wasn't a big accomplishment or anything.  I've done something MUCH more hero-like than this.  And I coulda got myself shot or such for questioning the guy... But still...
 
I felt like a Big Damn Hero.  For my parents or someone who needs that spot than that guy or me.
 
Shiny.
 
/Hadda tell story.  Thanks! :)

my grandad needs these spots as well, sometimes when he has me drive him around places he tells me to park there, if he's gonna get out of the car it's fine but if he's just gonan wait in the car for me to go get something I'll insist on taking a normal parking spot. thogh he insists I take the handicapped one. last time he got really angry when I parked far away even thogh only I was goign into the store.
There is always another way. But it might not work exactly like you may desire.

A wise old rabbit once told me "Never give-up!, Trust your instincts!" granted the advice at the time led me on a tripped-out voyage out of an asteroid belt, but hey it was more impressive than a bunch of rocks and space monkies.

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,677
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: Handicapped Parking and YOU.
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2013, 10:20:41 AM »
/people think I work there sometimes...

People think I work everywhere.  It doesn't matter what store I'm in, or that my clothing doesn't match the "local" uniforms.  They'll ask me where things are, or ask me for specifics about products (computers in Best Buy, for instance) - I'll answer if I know, but if I don't I'll say so and gently point out that I don't work there which tends to result in a confused look as if they don't know why they thought I did in the first place.

But congratulations on cultivating a successful Baleful Stare of Guilt. :)
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.