Author Topic: So I wrote an article...  (Read 4649 times)

Maressa

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So I wrote an article...
« on: April 25, 2013, 05:37:55 PM »
I meant for it to talk about all sorts of different games but as I was writing I just kept coming back to City of Heroes. It might as well have been called "9 Reasons City of Heroes is the Best." Sigh, I miss that city.

Have a read. http://www.onrpg.com/articles/editorial/9-things-you-dont-miss-until-theyre-gone-mmo-style/

Safehouse

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2013, 05:59:29 PM »
Great article! Well said and I found myself agreeing more and more fervently as I read.

It boils down to the community. A community like CoH's is what all MMOs should strive for - rather than sheer quantity. A community like CoH's is why I joined Titan, even months following the closure.

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Nealix

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2013, 07:26:04 PM »
Those are all great features of an MMO and I miss them with CoH gone.  For me CoH was a place for me to go and create superheroes and play them.  I didn't really role play much but in my head I was the character or thinking about the character's story and power etc.  CoH was the best for this as it had so many powers and costume sets and they were adding more and more all the time.  I probably spent more $ in CoH than in all other games I have played combined.  I just always had to have the new powers and costume options whether they were free to subcribers or not.  The most disappointing thing for me about the closure of CoH was that it came at a time when the game had never been better, in my estimation.  Paragon Studios was performing like a dream.

Now a days I am hanging out in CO and while its okay for my purposes I really miss the love and attention of a studio that cares for the game they are working on as much I care playing it.  It feels like the sunset of Camelot.

houtex

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 01:52:12 AM »
Good article!  Lots of agreement with it here.

Menrva Channel

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 04:34:54 AM »
I love your list! And it is /so/ true! Walk was pretty friggin' epic. And fly. Oh flying... it's one of the things I miss most. :( City of was also getting better at the travel thing before shut down. (It was a real pain before some of the changes i23. Especially long zones like IP and Grand. Very well written and all great points.

Intone

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 03:19:36 PM »
Great insights, Maressa.  Becomes a "need to have" list for MMO designers considering how to gain broadest appeal for their next game.

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 09:50:38 PM »
Great insights, Maressa.  Becomes a "need to have" list for MMO designers considering how to gain broadest appeal for their next game.

Exactly. Here's hoping that other MMO creators learn from the example of CoH
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RioJustice

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2013, 04:19:41 AM »
Ditto.  I miss the venue and there are many of us that relied on CoH as a community of friends but also provided wonderful freedom for personal expression. There is no replacement available and never will be without a vision that recreates that freedom of movement and expression.

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2013, 01:48:00 PM »
Ditto.  I miss the venue and there are many of us that relied on CoH as a community of friends but also provided wonderful freedom for personal expression. There is no replacement available and never will be without a vision that recreates that freedom of movement and expression.

I think it's because, honestly, the devs loved this game as much as we did - sometimes I think they loved it even more. That love for the game can translate to a love for the community and help the game become exactly what it needs to be!
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MaidMercury

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2013, 05:37:13 PM »
I think it's because, honestly, the devs loved this game as much as we did - sometimes I think they loved it even more. That love for the game can translate to a love for the community and help the game become exactly what it needs to be!

That is 100% correct. A great analysis.  ;D

RioJustice

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2013, 04:46:09 AM »
It is difficult to understand why CoH hasn't been revived considering the vast support.  I can only assume the corporate tools are clueless...  Please enlighten if needed.

JaguarX

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2013, 05:20:23 AM »
well, the support have been relatively quiet and underground. Remember these people probably dont personally or even care too much of what goes on in these comic conventions, game conventions besides having some advertising in there but that's marketing department. They probably dont read too much online game magazines, and the letter flooding while good  probably came off as more of a slight annoyance than something to be taken serious.

While 20,000 people signing a petition sounds like a lot, and show of support that is out of 60,000 that was there when closing and out of around 80,000-100,000 a month that was there through out the last 4-5 years.

And outside the customers themselves of the games, not many outside support. They probably already espected some type of resistance or fuss from the customers and thus it's considered normal to them. But not much of outside people saying hey, what's up, what does it take to get the game going again. But that takes the owner willing to sell, which ncsoft may be willing to do.

I think while support is strong, vast in relative term is a bit too much strong of a word. Vast would be if it made mainstream media and support or someone coving our story that have pull in the media, business or otherwise which has yet to happen or probably wont happen.

While it seem NCSoft wont revive it, first weapon of choice should be to find out what is the true reason COX was shut down in the first place, somehow, normally easy but it seems corporate layers make it hard. Was it that it was under performing? Then we would have to come up with a plan to ensure that it wont. Was the profits not enough, hell then we can raise money for advertising and get more players and more money spent. Was it streamlining, and random, well then not much about that. But in a nutshell if we want them to sell we have to think about what we want and think about what would actually be in it worth their time and process t revive it or sell. And remember these people, as much as many hate them, are not on the verge of bankruptcy so they wont be just snapping at any half baked offer that come across their desk. Or even straight professional ones based solely off money. The demand is high the supply is low. It's the cards of the seller right now. Because one, this isnt the IP of some run of the mill Fantasy game. There is maybe counted on one hand of super hero MMOs, and few if any anything like COX. So it's like that one purple on the Wentworth market that one person have but not using and everyone telling them to give it up so someone else can use. What they forget is what is in it for them that is useful for them to give up or revive that game?

The other way, is we have to show more support and get more people to join that support and actually turn it into vast support so big that even the media cant ignore and stop running away people on various sites over minor details in opinions.

Remember all NCSoft have to do is nothing and their goal is reached. We want the game we have to do the work. Unfortunately they have the ball, and name calling, threats with "bad PR" in a country that barely make up what 10% of their income probably wont work. We have tostop thinking, if the goal is or was to try to convince,  about me me me me me me, and more what is in it for them to give it up or revive.

RioJustice

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2013, 05:32:13 AM »
Thanks for the synopsis.  I appreciate the synopsis without fully understanding the situation.  Forgive me for being obtuse.  I simply wish to speak for the many.  They want this venue back.

Rio

silvers1

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2013, 11:52:49 AM »

Agreed with several points in the article.

PUGing is one of the major issues for me.  In CoH, you could generally find a PUG in just a few minutes.
Try finding one in WoW or GW2 - it's almost impossible, unless you want to do a dungeon.

I also found the lack of chat in GW2 to be very disconcerting - one of several reasons I quit after getting a toon to max level.
No point in playing an online game if there is zero social interaction.
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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2013, 12:00:53 PM »
I've said before, CoH's greatest strength was in the way things scaled to however many heroes you wanted to throw at them. In every other game, you take three people into the same mission you just cleared solo and it'll be the same three guys per spawn, while in CoH it'd see you have three people and spawn groups of seven or eight guys instead. More games need to do that, seriously. I'm sick of spending most of my time soloing because there's zero incentive to team.

Massively Multiplayer means more than a persistent world and an auction house, that is all.

FatherXmas

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2013, 02:37:28 PM »
Agreed with several points in the article.

PUGing is one of the major issues for me.  In CoH, you could generally find a PUG in just a few minutes.
Try finding one in WoW or GW2 - it's almost impossible, unless you want to do a dungeon.

I also found the lack of chat in GW2 to be very disconcerting - one of several reasons I quit after getting a toon to max level.
No point in playing an online game if there is zero social interaction.

Well to be fair in GW2 there is no real need to establish a formal team except for dungeons (and fractals).
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silvers1

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2013, 08:01:53 PM »
Well to be fair in GW2 there is no real need to establish a formal team except for dungeons (and fractals).

When you get up in the top level zones, a solo players gets his teeth kicked in - repeatedly.  The spawn rate is designed
for several people, and the constant ambushes + wandering elite bosses are ridiculous.

But I will agree with you, in the lower level zones grouping isnt really needed - with a few exceptions.
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FatherXmas

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2013, 03:31:29 AM »
When you get up in the top level zones, a solo players gets his teeth kicked in - repeatedly.  The spawn rate is designed
for several people, and the constant ambushes + wandering elite bosses are ridiculous.

But I will agree with you, in the lower level zones grouping isnt really needed - with a few exceptions.

I said formal teaming, nothing about just soloing.  Players come together and separate like ripples in a pond.  I've done the Cathedrals on Orr with other players but we weren't members on a team.  Just a mob of players with like goals.  That's sort of an advantage when the MMO triad simple doesn't exist.
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goodtime

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2013, 04:27:15 AM »
Woo!  I'm famous!   In Leandro's Hero video you linked, that orange-suited float-y dude with the blue phoenix wings  at 13 seconds is my character, Mr. Methane!  Woo!

Excellent article, btw.   :D


I meant for it to talk about all sorts of different games but as I was writing I just kept coming back to City of Heroes. It might as well have been called "9 Reasons City of Heroes is the Best." Sigh, I miss that city.

Have a read. http://www.onrpg.com/articles/editorial/9-things-you-dont-miss-until-theyre-gone-mmo-style/

JaguarX

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Re: So I wrote an article...
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2013, 04:36:41 PM »
Agreed with several points in the article.

PUGing is one of the major issues for me.  In CoH, you could generally find a PUG in just a few minutes.
Try finding one in WoW or GW2 - it's almost impossible, unless you want to do a dungeon.

I also found the lack of chat in GW2 to be very disconcerting - one of several reasons I quit after getting a toon to max level.
No point in playing an online game if there is zero social interaction.

Ah, good ol PUGs. Good stuff.

Actually in my relatively short time in WoW not knowing anyone at all, didnt have too much trouble finding PUGs much there. I had more trouble in COX, especially during the odds hours I was able to play, especially for TFs which seemed like what I would call dungeons in WoW. Teams just to do stuff in COX, was rare and far in between. A little better and quicker once in Paragrine Island where there is usually a few or so people looking to do papers and Atlas/Hollows early on until that low level sewer trial hit then it was dead for to me find a PUG for low level missions. But in COX it was easier for any level to join any team compared to WoW where it was in theory limited by level but guess given the millions compared to up to 10% of that number for COX and the amount of people on outside peak hours made PUGs hard for me to find.

In recent memory, there was nto a time where I was able to join or form a team for required number for TF in under 20 minutes if at all. Many times even for 3 people Posi new and old, we get me and one other person and have to call it off after an hour due to lack of interest in other people of running that specific TF at that specific time. Many time had to log into second account just to to fill that last spot to fill. With the others many time, as only had one second account, had to call it off. Average time to form a PUG for me usually after tryign to join one for 45-1 hour is about 40min-1 hour unless it was for farming AE when that was hot or the usual same old BAF or that other one who name escape me with Siege and that female robot, that I ran hundreds of times because the interest in the others was next to nill and only specific times and groups willing to do it out side the speed runs. PUGs in WoW came easy and much less questions of "Are we speed running this?" like in COX where it seemed like always a couple that joins that ask that and quit if it's not a specific farm or speedrun which then extend the time to find replacements in order to start. Ironically we steam  roll faster than many Speed runs and even when taking time maybe no later than 10-15 minutes more than average speed run but walk away with more xp, inf., and drops. It's like many in COX, too many was afraid of xp or viewed playing as more of a chore that they want to get over with as quickly as possible, instead of playing for fun laughs and goofing off.

In a way I had more laid back interactions in WoW than COX even though it's ironic, given that WoW is "known" for it's serious gamers and COX is supposed to be casual, but seems like my luck have it to come across every single "Serious" gamer in COX and every casual gamer in WoW. That's good and bad. Good, because the sheer amount of people in WoW, there is group for everyone and every mindset. Bad in COX not many players, and COX was my main game and good community but ended up solo many times because I wasnt into speed runs, farms, or watching one toon stealth all the missions while the rest of the team sit around twidling thumbs. Could I take on that +8 mobs alone? Sure but that defeats the purpose of even being on a team in my book if I have to race to get a little bit of xp before that guy SS/stealth to the end of the map.