Negative Article on Massively

[Segev]

*is not allowed to twirl his mustache, tie up little NellCSoft, and threaten:* "If you don't give me the deed to your City, I'll throw you on the railroad tracks!"



(Now I'm going to make sure that the Phoenix Project's avatar builder will let me build a top-hat-and-cape-wearing mustachio'd villain with the physique of a broom.)

[Sajaana]

I am NOT on board with this one.  Support BOTH Plan Z Projects, yes. I totally agree with this.  But to insinuate, even as a tactic, that either of these will "replace" COH?   no.

Besides, as I posted over on the site, I do believe this has grown a bit beyond simply trying to get NCSoft to release the game/IP.

I don't think, over all, that we are simply protesting about COH anymore...but rather putting the gaming companies on notice that we are starting to get tired of their practices!

One reason I support the Plan Z Projects is because I am hoping that neither of them will adhere to the current practices.

After COH, I swore that I would not subscribe to any game that did not give me at least a minimal amount of offline ability...so that when the game eventually died....I would still have something to show for my money.

We have seen games closed (isn't NCSoft known as an MMO Killer?)  leaving players with nothing.

On that site, I have been criticized for part of my comment...rather than not caring about how my actions affect players of other games, I should be Empowering them (in my neck of the woods, we call that enabling, not empowering).

The chances that we will get our game back?  Not good. I never expect to see it again beyond what SEGS can recreate.  But I can hope.   And I can continue to be be a voice against companies that continue to hold players hostage to their whims.

I'm with you here.

Simply put, while I believe in this form of entertainment, I don't believe in the business model that provides it to us.  It punishes the end user for things the end user has no control over.  It places a risk burden on the consumer that he or she can neither mitigate nor predict.  So until I get some better guarantees, I'm done throwing money into these games.

[Ironwolf]

I personally have decided to vote with my wallet and I am finished with MMO's.

If a capricious publisher can destroy 8+ years of my work in one day...........not doing it again.

[downix]

I'm with you here.

Simply put, while I believe in this form of entertainment, I don't believe in the business model that provides it to us.  It punishes the end user for things the end user has no control over.  It places a risk burden on the consumer that he or she can neither mitigate nor predict.  So until I get some better guarantees, I'm done throwing money into these games.

What both you and Dylan, and Ironwolf, all said has weighed on our minds. People want the social capability, but they do not want to live in fear of a corporate master wiping away years of work on a whim.

And I'm damned well going to make sure that doesn't happen with TPP.

[Segev]

What both you and Dylan, and Ironwolf, all said has weighed on our minds. People want the social capability, but they do not want to live in fear of a corporate master wiping away years of work on a whim.

And I'm damned well going to make sure that doesn't happen with TPP.

Indeed. We're exploring several options - all in conceptual stages at the moment, since we have a lot more basic things to do on the coding side before we get there - for ways to ensure players retain some measure of ownership over the game and their ability to play it, should the sad day come that Missing Worlds Media has to cease supporting the servers for the game. Some are pretty straight-forward, others are somewhat innovative. We'll figure something out; the last thing we want is our community to be right back here, facing this same tragic problem, again in a decade.

[Ironwolf]

Personally - if you came to end of life allow the players to pay directly for the server time. It could go into maintenance mode and just do a kickstarter or some such thing to fund it month to month. I personally won't join another MMO until they post an end of life plan.

It really isn't worth it to me.

[Nebularian]

Indeed. We're exploring several options - all in conceptual stages at the moment, since we have a lot more basic things to do on the coding side before we get there - for ways to ensure players retain some measure of ownership over the game and their ability to play it, should the sad day come that Missing Worlds Media has to cease supporting the servers for the game. Some are pretty straight-forward, others are somewhat innovative. We'll figure something out; the last thing we want is our community to be right back here, facing this same tragic problem, again in a decade.

Remember the old Unreal Tournament games?  You could play play offline (very limited...once you finished the "Practice" Missions, all you could do was play them again or play on downloaded maps against bots), You could play online against others, or (and here is my point) you could play play on a LAN.

THAT is where I think modern MMO's got lazy. You could play on this rich, ever growing world...but only online.

Obviously players are not going to be able to play to THAT extent offline or even on LAN.  But there should be SOMETHING to do offline. Strictly FOR offline/Lan toons.   I seem to remember some games that allowed you to play offline and online, but you could not use the same toons for both.   

I know this means a bit more work for the devs....but I think this is something that should be considered.

[FlyingCarcass]

Remember the old Unreal Tournament games?  You could play play offline (very limited...once you finished the "Practice" Missions, all you could do was play them again or play on downloaded maps against bots), You could play online against others, or (and here is my point) you could play play on a LAN.

I want to mention that I loaded up Unreal Tournament 2004 a few weeks ago and there were still folks playing online on privately hosted servers. Plus as you said I could play offline against bots. I like games that provide the players with tools/features that allow them to determine the lifespan of a game.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Anyone think the epic 'cloud' concept might actually be useful for the future of MMO's?

[Surelle]

Anyone think the epic 'cloud' concept might actually be useful for the future of MMO's?

Well, seeing as how MMOs are online-only anyway, it might be, however it does just add in one more thing to possibly go wrong.

I had a Microsoft rep tell me over a year ago that the new XBox will be cloud:  This thought I cannot stand, as it means that single player games are no longer playable offline, a taboo to me.  What if your internet goes down?  What if cloud goes down, or gets hacked?  (PSN debacle, anyone?)  Thanks but no thanks.  And the recent twitter press abomination with the "Get over it" on the new XBox's "always online" info leak only reinforces the whole potential cloud fiasco even more.

What is it with Microsoft always trying to become ever more controlling and restrictive?  (Windows 8 closed platform nonsense being the most recent example of that, which has done nothing but send Gabe Newell and many mainstream game developers and publishers scrambling toward Linux as fast as their fingers will carry them.)

And whoa!  We are really derailing the thread here, lol.  Sorry for jumping on the bandwagon too.

[eabrace]

And whoa!  We are really derailing the thread here, lol.  Sorry for jumping on the bandwagon too.

[Nebularian]

LOL. Actually, I think it just took a sidetrack, evolving from comments

[downix]

Remember the old Unreal Tournament games?  You could play play offline (very limited...once you finished the "Practice" Missions, all you could do was play them again or play on downloaded maps against bots), You could play online against others, or (and here is my point) you could play play on a LAN.

THAT is where I think modern MMO's got lazy. You could play on this rich, ever growing world...but only online.

Obviously players are not going to be able to play to THAT extent offline or even on LAN.  But there should be SOMETHING to do offline. Strictly FOR offline/Lan toons.   I seem to remember some games that allowed you to play offline and online, but you could not use the same toons for both.   

I know this means a bit more work for the devs....but I think this is something that should be considered.

You *are* aware that we are using the Unreal engine yes?  I still fire up UT every so often to play.

We are going to make sure that there is a way to continue playing. The exact form is not yet settled.

[dwturducken]

Know how to manage a Drupal site?

It is so odd that you say that. I don't know what that is, except that something that I use occasionally (so occasionally that I'm blanking on what site it is) was down last night, and it was a Drupal error page that came up. I'm an OK quick study, but some things, like the various layers of VoIP troubleshooting, staunchly refuse to bend to my Google-foo!

And, I think we have some parallel threads, so I don't mind the occasional derial.

[Noyjitat]

You *are* aware that we are using the Unreal engine yes?  I still fire up UT every so often to play.

We are going to make sure that there is a way to continue playing. The exact form is not yet settled.

I would hope after all the shit with ncsoft that you would just sell it to the next person in the community willing to run the server.

[downix]

I would hope after all the pancake with ncsoft that you would just sell it to the next person in the community willing to run the server.

That's one option, but I'm aiming for something a bit better than asking for more money at the end.