Author Topic: Help out SEGS  (Read 51984 times)

DarkCurrent

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2013, 06:16:38 PM »
I see it like this...

City of Villains is mine.  What's on my hard drive is mine.  What's on my shelf is mine.  If it ever was theirs, they have abandoned it to me.  Evidence of this is the fact that they never bothered to come and pick it up, or pay me to store it for them.

And I'll make use of what is mine, just like I'll make use of an old Ford, when Ford no longer makes parts for it.

I agree with this.

I bought CoH.  I bought CoV.  I bought Praetoria.  I paid for 8 yrs of NCSoft to allow me to access those games on their servers.  They shut down their servers and stopped serving the games I bought.  If someone else wants to fire up a server and host the games I bought, then how is that illegal?

JanessaVR

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2013, 06:36:07 PM »
I agree with this.

I bought CoH.  I bought CoV.  I bought Praetoria.  I paid for 8 yrs of NCSoft to allow me to access those games on their servers.  They shut down their servers and stopped serving the games I bought.  If someone else wants to fire up a server and host the games I bought, then how is that illegal?
Even if it is, see me not giving a damn.  See also my previous video response in this thread to the "threat" of NCSoft.   :)

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2013, 08:02:45 PM »
In fact, in fact!! I view NCSoft as haven STOLEN from ME. They took my six year's worth of cash, which included a lot of extras such as costume stuff - and uncounted hours spent playing and upgrading my characters, and... they just took it, with no recourse at all, and definitely no compensation. I view this as a theft!

Their smarmy little "so long, all of you mean so much to us and we love this game too hahahaha" did nothing to mitigate my rage. In fact I think it made it worse.


Ashen Fury

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2013, 08:20:21 PM »
In fact, in fact!! I view NCSoft as haven STOLEN from ME. They took my six year's worth of cash, which included a lot of extras such as costume stuff - and uncounted hours spent playing and upgrading my characters, and... they just took it, with no recourse at all, and definitely no compensation. I view this as a theft!

Their smarmy little "so long, all of you mean so much to us and we love this game too hahahaha" did nothing to mitigate my rage. In fact I think it made it worse.

Every time I see that ridiculous write-up they put on the cityofheroes.com page, I'm immediately enraged.
Permanently Scrapperlocked.

Love CoH music? Want EVERY SINGLE FILE?
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7192.0.html

blacksly

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2013, 09:53:50 PM »
In fact, in fact!! I view NCSoft as haven STOLEN from ME. They took my six year's worth of cash, which included a lot of extras such as costume stuff - and uncounted hours spent playing and upgrading my characters, and... they just took it, with no recourse at all, and definitely no compensation. I view this as a theft!

Now, wait a second, let's be fair here.

No one is STEALING from you the time that you spent playing a game for your enjoyment. So saying that they took your hours spent playing... frankly, it would be fair to say that they gave you hours of enjoyment playing, in return for your money.

Took your cash, true. I always viewed it as part of my entertainment budget for the month, and money well spent for the entertainment value. But unless there is a claim to be made for the characters having inherent value from existing, rather than for the enjoyment of playing them, it's not like we really built up much value into our characters... personal value, granted, but that's not of relevance to others or to a company.

They took away our hobby/interest/pastime/whatever, despite it being profitable. And since they've made money on the IP overall including development costs, they could sell it without opening up questions of giving in to someone pressuring them for IP based on its losses. So I don't see a reasonable argument for them not to sell the IP (sooner, so that it doesn't lose much value, but still with a reasonable timeframe so that they can recoup losses).

But for all of the wrong that they've done the community, I don't see how we can reasonably classify this as any kind of theft.

Now, if you just want to be unreasonable, well, that's fine. Don't let my interjection slow down the ranting :D

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2013, 10:12:17 PM »
They took away something that I was paying cash for. I view it as theft. I was not compensated for said removal. It was all: "We're taking it." And then they followed through and actually took it.

Virtual properties holding real-world value is an idea that is gaining traction, as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Quote
But unless there is a claim to be made for the characters having inherent value from existing, rather than for the enjoyment of playing them, it's not like we really built up much value into our characters... personal value, granted, but that's not of relevance to others or to a company.

Yep, there is indeed a claim to be made. I did build up value to them, not to mention they "died" holding literally billions in Influence. And tens of millions more in uncrafted recipies and salvage. Lets see: my main had about 880 hours on him when he died. 880 hours x $10.00/hr [A LOWBALL FIGURE BTW, I value my time] = my main being worth a MINIMUM of $8,800.00 and that is not counting my influence and other drops he was carrying.

That's just my main. I was running about 35 characters total.

I hope NCIdiocracy realizes exactly what they've done - I doubt they do, but I hope they think about - the megalithic LACK OF TRUST in the MMO industry that they have helped to create. Tens of thousands of gamers are now out there thinking "O HELL NO!" when considering forming an attachment to another MMO. I wont be forming any until I finally see one I like, that has a kill-switch clause in it stating "if we kill it, we're releasing the code to the developers and Godspeed. Love you guys and it was a good run, thanks for your business." On this I am very clear. My trust will be earned.

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2013, 10:21:52 PM »
You know what I miss, is rolling a new hero and killing a few Hellions for Azuria's first mission, then you ran across Atlas to the Hellion's Firey Warehouse O'Doom mish. That was a fun mish and a great map. Or if you were a villain, you went and talked to Kalinda, and then you ran out the front gate of Fort Darwin. And the Fort Darwin music kicked in.... and you ran halfway across the map to go kill you some Snakes.

"...but Boss! Surely they will resent our intrusion...!"

I just miss it.  :'(

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2013, 10:36:46 PM »
Yep, there is indeed a claim to be made. I did build up value to them, not to mention they "died" holding literally billions in Influence.

Also to keep in mind, in spite of what a lot of capitalistic apologists will say about it, Money is not the only way to invest in something. Time is equally important. If one were to ever convert the amount of time a single player invests into an MMO into a salary, the cost would be staggering. Someone did this type of calculation once for WoW, and estimated that if looked at as a corporation, it's players have already done more hours of "work" than the employees in any corporation ever in existence. That's a big number.

Hobbies are investments, whether we expect to earn back money from it or not. The idea that someone can just barge in at any moment and say, "You're not allowed to have this hobby anymore" is very new, and has only ever applied to virtual items. Not just gaming either, but all forms of entertainment. Sadly, if Apple, or Sony, or BMG, etc decided tomorrow that they wanted us to pay a monthly license for every MP3 we have legitimately bought, they probably could, and get away with it. I haven't bothered to dig into the licenses for these kind of things, but chances are, the "We can change it whenever we want" clause is probably in there. They could also probably expire the license and make us buy them again, or get rid of personal ownership altogether and tell us we can only hear this music if we go to an officially licensed "entertainment center" (a Sony Night Club, if you will). Or, they could cut the cord completely and decide nobody should listen to it again, ever (no reason they'd ever do that, but if they wanted to they probably could). The entertainment giants have been living in a fantasy bubble for years, where they can literally remake moral reality whenever it is in their best interests. Everyone used to complain that Microsoft did this (ex: the "make darkness the new standard" joke), but just about every big company that deals in virtual merchandise is guilty of the same thing.

r00tb0ySlim

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2013, 10:49:12 PM »
You know what I miss, is rolling a new hero and killing a few Hellions for Azuria's first mission, then you ran across Atlas to the Hellion's Firey Warehouse O'Doom mish. That was a fun mish and a great map. Or if you were a villain, you went and talked to Kalinda, and then you ran out the front gate of Fort Darwin. And the Fort Darwin music kicked in.... and you ran halfway across the map to go kill you some Snakes.

"...but Boss! Surely they will resent our intrusion...!"

I just miss it.  :'(

Me too...It felt good to roll out new toons now and then just to go thru those missions on both sides.

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2013, 11:04:52 PM »
Agreed Slim, it was just an EXCITING feeling to roll one out and wonder: "Will I fall in love with this one?" knowing the next few hours would be the deciding factor. [fall in love = be interested and excited enough to invest my time in getting this character to 50.] Sometimes it happened, sometimes it didnt.... some costumes and names seemed truly to be jinxed.... but it was always fun to find out.

I would happily run aaaalllllllllllllllllllll the way across Mercy again, over to that special "eliminate the Infected" warehouse yet again, if only I could. That mission used to bore the whatever out of me, now I would run it all day every day.

So, yeah. Get busy, SEGs people.  8)

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2013, 11:08:51 PM »
Quote
Tim: Sadly, if Apple, or Sony, or BMG, etc decided tomorrow that they wanted us to pay a monthly license for every MP3 we have legitimately bought, they probably could, and get away with it. I haven't bothered to dig into the licenses for these kind of things, but chances are, the "We can change it whenever we want" clause is probably in there. They could also probably expire the license and make us buy them again, or get rid of personal ownership altogether and tell us we can only hear this music if we go to an officially licensed "entertainment center" (a Sony Night Club, if you will). Or, they could cut the cord completely and decide nobody should listen to it again, ever (no reason they'd ever do that, but if they wanted to they probably could). The entertainment giants have been living in a fantasy bubble for years, where they can literally remake moral reality whenever it is in their best interests. Everyone used to complain that Microsoft did this (ex: the "make darkness the new standard" joke), but just about every big company that deals in virtual merchandise is guilty of the same thing.

There is truly no limit to corporate stupidity, so indeed it could happen. BUT.... the last time the music industry got too greedy, that is when we began seeing the rise of pirating. People will only put up with so much, then they start considering revenge.

Like us, right now sorta.  :P

DarkCurrent

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2013, 11:54:01 PM »
So does this mean we shouldn't buy/save things on 'clouds'?  What if Amazon or Apple decided they didn't want to host/store your purchases... songs, pictures, videos, documents, etc.  Stuff you bought.  Stuff you created.  Stuff you paid monthly fees (like Amazon Prime) for.  You think they could just pull the plug whenever they wanted and all that stuff would no longer be yours?  That you could never use it again?

JanessaVR

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2013, 12:01:00 AM »
So does this mean we shouldn't buy/save things on 'clouds'?  What if Amazon or Apple decided they didn't want to host/store your purchases... songs, pictures, videos, documents, etc.  Stuff you bought.  Stuff you created.  Stuff you paid monthly fees (like Amazon Prime) for.  You think they could just pull the plug whenever they wanted and all that stuff would no longer be yours?  That you could never use it again?
Unless of course, you had acquired, say, a "Kindle Cracker," able to convert Kindle files on your PC into unencrypted text files, then your Kindle books would be yours to read even if Amazon suddenly went out of business tomorrow.

Hypothetically speaking.

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2013, 12:10:35 AM »
So does this mean we shouldn't buy/save things on 'clouds'?  What if Amazon or Apple decided they didn't want to host/store your purchases... songs, pictures, videos, documents, etc.  Stuff you bought.  Stuff you created.  Stuff you paid monthly fees (like Amazon Prime) for.  You think they could just pull the plug whenever they wanted and all that stuff would no longer be yours?  That you could never use it again?

Yes indeed I do think that, that is why you will never find me storing stuff on a "cloud." IIRC, a few years ago there was a huge flap when Amazon pulled Kindle access to a book people had paid for. People were livid.

Corporations do not have you, the consumer's best interest in mind. EVER. They're going to do what they want and be damned to the hindenmost. So yeah, back up your stuff. At your house.

r00tb0ySlim

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2013, 12:15:58 AM »
 

I would happily run aaaalllllllllllllllllllll the way across Mercy again, over to that special "eliminate the Infected" warehouse yet again, if only I could. That mission used to bore the whatever out of me, now I would run it all day every day.

So, yeah. Get busy, SEGs people.  8)

This, absolutely...I'm all in on SEGS currently.  I just can't seem to login.  Up until that everything went fine.  I'll keep trying.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2013, 01:25:10 AM »
Yes indeed I do think that, that is why you will never find me storing stuff on a "cloud." IIRC, a few years ago there was a huge flap when Amazon pulled Kindle access to a book people had paid for. People were livid.

Corporations do not have you, the consumer's best interest in mind. EVER. They're going to do what they want and be damned to the hindenmost. So yeah, back up your stuff. At your house.

Yep... I never, EVER use cloud drives. Though sadly, I've actually wondered if one day we'll even have the option of local storage of ANYTHING. Clouds have been pushed on us really hard and I've been wary of it from the beginning. Seems like it's just another layer of control being force-fed to us with a spoonful of sugary benefits.

Another major hiccup was when Megaupload got forcefully taken down by the FBI. Granted that's different from a company shutting its own service down, but the amount of damage dealt to users was catastrophic.

I had multiple backups of CoH when the servers were shutdown, just in case they decided to give the NC launcher some naughty ideas about deleting the install folder without my permission.

nemerle

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2013, 01:32:19 AM »
Just a little tidbit before bedtime :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AabkNAwe_I

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2013, 02:39:03 AM »

This, absolutely...I'm all in on SEGS currently.  I just can't seem to login.  Up until that everything went fine.  I'll keep trying.

Wait, if they start at issue 4 there wont be any CoV anyways.

All-righty then. I will just be running that Firey Warehouse O'Doom Hellions mish a million times. I can wait for Mercy.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 03:02:13 AM by Illusionss »

JWBullfrog

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2013, 03:02:21 AM »
Just a little tidbit before bedtime :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AabkNAwe_I

And it's even MY Atlas.  (I was never really happy with the upgrade) Go SEGS go!
As long as somebody keeps making up stories for it, the City isn't gone.

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2013, 03:03:49 AM »
Just a little tidbit before bedtime :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AabkNAwe_I

LOOK AT IT PEOPLE JUST LOOOOOOOOK *tears come to my eyes*