Author Topic: Help out SEGS  (Read 54659 times)

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 04:44:08 AM »
Given the overall effectiveness of various agencies in trying to suppress all the file trading sites on the internet, I believe the end of this clip (around 1:40) appropriately expresses my level of terror at NCSoft coming after our private/community servers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqDdrT2-bH4

Andddddd, this.

NCIdiocracy is holding my "precious booty" hostage. I feel no compunction whatsoever about yanking it back from them.

pewlagon

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 05:35:40 AM »
Please do not ascribe what I'm stating by using murder as an example. I'm a pacifist and found that grossly offensive.

My opinion about my time going to waste if an emulator is shut down is just that. It is my preference to not worry about wasting time on something that could vanish overnight and for reasons that may have nothing to do with a cease and desist. I want the full Official game back. It may or may not happen. So be it. I have a right to use my time in my endeavors without worrying that I may lose something again. That was all I meant by what I said and nothing more. Please don't read more into my statements.

And, again, I do not wish to deter anyone from doing what they want. I gave my opinion and what has been stated, even by Tony V and others. I wish the SEGS luck and if it gets off the ground anyone playing should have all the fun in the world. And before this goes into me being someone that might report said efforts. Uhm, no. I have no reason for be a jerk like that. My words here are simply meant as cautionary and nothing more.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 06:04:50 AM by pewlagon »

Adelante

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 05:49:54 AM »
NCIdiocracy is holding my "precious booty" hostage. I feel no compunction whatsoever about yanking it back from them.

And how precious exactly is your booty?  Feel free to exhibit evidence of a photographical nature.

dwturducken

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 12:58:41 PM »
Well, that degenerated quickly...
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

SARobb

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 04:01:13 PM »
Well, that degenerated quickly...

It only classifies as degeneration if the photographical evidence proves the booty isn't precious...  ;D
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Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 05:22:05 PM »

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 09:35:43 PM »
3. A valuable prize, award, or gain.

I too consider this to be the definition of booties.  Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.

Quote
And before this goes into me being someone that might report said efforts. Uhm, no. I have no reason for be a jerk like that
  I hope no one here would do that.  That would be a cold blooded action.  However, I never thought you were saying that:) I took your opinion exactly for what it was.  I agree too, if you want play/work on the game go ahead.  If not, then don't.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 09:40:50 PM by Taceus Jiwede »

Blue Pulsar

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 11:00:57 PM »
Depends on the police force.

If they are LAPD, they would just shoot everyone.

If they NYPD, they would pick a random person and beat a confession out of them.

If they are ELPD, they will send them to the Mexican prison until someone confess to supplying the weapons.

If it's Atlanta police, they will just shoot someone that look like the perp and say the case is solved.


Had to lol at this.
Blue Pulsar - 50 nrg/kin def - first toon - Liberty
Bane of Lanur - 52 nec/dark MM - Main vill - Liberty
Destan H. - 53 SS/FA brute - Farm/PvP hybrid - Freedom
Destan's Fury - 53 StJ/Regen brute - PvPer - Freedom
Destan's Shadow Gang - 53 Thug/Dark MM - PvPer - Freedom

Blue Pulsar

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 11:20:39 PM »
Blue Pulsar - 50 nrg/kin def - first toon - Liberty
Bane of Lanur - 52 nec/dark MM - Main vill - Liberty
Destan H. - 53 SS/FA brute - Farm/PvP hybrid - Freedom
Destan's Fury - 53 StJ/Regen brute - PvPer - Freedom
Destan's Shadow Gang - 53 Thug/Dark MM - PvPer - Freedom

dwturducken

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 11:50:22 PM »
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

JaguarX

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2013, 11:57:43 PM »

  I hope no one here would do that.  That would be a cold blooded action.  However, I never thought you were saying that:) I took your opinion exactly for what it was.  I agree too, if you want play/work on the game go ahead.  If not, then don't.

What would there be to report?  I was myself a little cautious, but took time to check out the actual SEGS website(thanks for the link) , and past postings about this effort, which seemed to been going on for some time now, and it seems the general concenus is that it's a legal thing to do and thus nothing to worry about nor report, and thus no risk in playing nor creating the project that SEGS is working on.

pewlagon

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2013, 01:08:47 AM »
Wow, I usually don't find people who define pacifism in that manner these days. I actually have two black belts in well recognized martial arts. Pacifism is not the total denial of violence, but rather looking to other means before results turn toward an unruly end. Several martial arts rely heavily on the credo that there is usually a better solution then brute nonsensical force. Just because I choose a path that dictates I wil not fight, except in extreme circumstances, does not make me a coward, it means I have chosen a more enlightened path.

I also have Aspergers and growing up I emulated the heroes that tried to avoid damage as much as possible. Fortunately, for me, I avoided some of the more serious pitfalls of my condition, but I did come away with a strong sense of duty, honor, and justice. Yes, I have lost friends because they disagree with my views, but that is mainly because I live in a world of greys when my viewpoint is white versus black. Only my family and my girl understand me and for that I am always thankful.

I do not mean any of my commentary to be negative I have just stated what I want and that is the true game back online. For some, like yourself, any chance will be satisfactory. And that is fine. Again, I wish you and those involved in such efforts all the good will in the world. I have no doubt the fruits of said labor will be grand for those that wish this. Sadly, for me, I have moved on. NcSoft won't ever see another dime from me and that is the only message I truly think that matters.

Adelante

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2013, 04:22:56 AM »

Twisted Toon

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2013, 04:30:27 AM »
Wow, I usually don't find people who define pacifism in that manner these days. I actually have two black belts in well recognized martial arts. Pacifism is not the total denial of violence, but rather looking to other means before results turn toward an unruly end. Several martial arts rely heavily on the credo that there is usually a better solution then brute nonsensical force. Just because I choose a path that dictates I wil not fight, except in extreme circumstances, does not make me a coward, it means I have chosen a more enlightened path.

I also have Aspergers and growing up I emulated the heroes that tried to avoid damage as much as possible. Fortunately, for me, I avoided some of the more serious pitfalls of my condition, but I did come away with a strong sense of duty, honor, and justice. Yes, I have lost friends because they disagree with my views, but that is mainly because I live in a world of greys when my viewpoint is white versus black. Only my family and my girl understand me and for that I am always thankful.

I do not mean any of my commentary to be negative I have just stated what I want and that is the true game back online. For some, like yourself, any chance will be satisfactory. And that is fine. Again, I wish you and those involved in such efforts all the good will in the world. I have no doubt the fruits of said labor will be grand for those that wish this. Sadly, for me, I have moved on. NcSoft won't ever see another dime from me and that is the only message I truly think that matters.
I think I have been in three fights in my entire life. Well, "fight" would be stretching it a little for two of them, I think. When I was 11, I stuffed a kid in my locker at school because he wouldn't leave me a lone and was looking for a fight. He made the mistake of getting between me and my locker. I did let him out after class, though. The other "fight" was about the some time period and no-one threw a punch. I just stood up to a bully and let him know that I wasn't going to cower in fear of him. He was all ready to throw one at me, then decided not to. After that, we got along fairly well. We weren't friends, but we weren't really enemies either. The third fight happened when I was 15. A kid and his two buddies wanted to "see" my skateboard. I told them that I'd rather not let go of it. The largest of the three decked me in the mouth and gave me a bloody lip. I suppose I could have nailed him with the skateboard, but instead I just walked away. I didn't have anything to prove to him or any one else.

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I really shouldn't ramble so much...
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TonyV

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2013, 06:33:16 AM »
Hey all, a few clarifications:

SEGS

This is an effort to replicate the City of Heroes server as of an early version of the game, closer to launch than what it was when it shut down in December.  I don't personally have anything to do with this project, though I do wish them the best of luck.  This is likely (but not for-sure) to be the earliest effort that results in a playable server, given that the server was a lot simpler back then.

Other Compatible Servers

There is at least one more reverse engineering effort underway that I know of, intended to provide a compatible server with Issue 24, which was in the can and due to be rolled out but was never released due to the announced shutdown in August.  I'm not personally involved in the development of this server, but from what I've heard, efforts are still pretty early in their development.  The protocols have been reverse-engineered, but writing a compatible server completely from scratch is not a light undertaking.  Also, I understand your reluctance in trusting a reverse-engineered server, but I've heard some good ideas like ensuring that character exportability is a baked-in function so that the damage from servers simply ceasing to exist is mitigated.  I think there are some other good thoughts around this topic, and I'd love to see some discussion about it.

For both of these efforts, I probably wouldn't expect to hear anything for at least a few months, or until the respective teams can carve enough time out of their schedules to put in a lot of time and effort.  Keep in mind that the original client/server software was developed over the course of 2001 until April, 2004.  I don't think it will take three years since the teams are focusing only on the server piece and since they're not having to do things like design powers, create art assets, balance gameplay, etc.; but still, I do ask that you don't rush things.  It'll take a while.

I can't really comment concretely on the legalities of these servers, other than to say that it is my good faith belief that any compatible server developed from reverse engineering efforts that does not use the City of Heroes intellectual property (art assets, names, places, etc.) would be legal.

Also, my personal belief (i.e. this is not a "Titan Network" position or a statement on the legality of the situation) is that given the state of City of Heroes and as long as NCsoft is refusing to budge on releasing the IP to another company, I don't have any moral qualms about people working on a drop-in replacement for City of Heroes.  It's utter rubbish to me that after people have spent thousands of dollars on this game, all of their hard work would be wiped away because of a company's decision to change their long-term goals. Some places (not the U.S., unfortunately) are beginning to consider virtual property similarly to real property, and to me personally, this is nothing short of wanton destruction of that property...just 'cause.  I certainly understand the "But it's immoral because it's illegal, and you shouldn't do illegal things!" train of thought, but I respectfully disagree with it.  But enough of my soapbox, I digress...

The Phoenix Project, Heroes and Villains, and Other Plan Z Projects

These are completely separate projects. Their only relationships to City of Heroes are: 1) the people developing the projects are former City of Heroes players, and 2) they are attempting to capture the essence of what made City of Heroes fun in their respective games.  These will absolutely, positively be legal because they're new games with completely different intellectual property behind them.  NCsoft doesn't have any kind of rights to the superhero MMORPG genre, and in fact, game rules and mechanics are explicitly not subject to U.S. copyright law.

It's important to note that "we want something City of Heroes-like back!" is only part of the purpose of developing these games.  Both teams are convinced--and I am too--that the games will in fact be superior to City of Heroes.  Not to knock our beloved game, but it is over 10 years old.  There are new game engines now that are easier to use and develop with and that have new tech baked in that the old Cryptic engine (which itself has been updated for newer Cryptic games) doesn't.  Computer specifications and system software capability have dramatically advanced in the past decade.  There is a lot more reference work in the MMORPG genre from which to draw things that work and things that don't, as well as lessons learned from things done particularly well or particularly badly within City of Heroes itself.  As far as I can tell, the goals of these teams are not to produce a City of Heroes clone, but to produce newer and better games that capture what made City of Heroes really great.  Thinking of them as being comparable to what should have been City of Heroes 2 would be a lot more accurate than thinking of them as City of Heroes clones.

One of the things I'm hoping both teams learn is that as a community, our members are now gun-shy about heavily investing in a game like City of Heroes.  We know painfully well what it's like to feel like you've wasted a lot of time and effort on something that can simply vanish at any time.  I've heard ideas from both teams to reassure people that this risk is highly mitigated, and it's my sincere hope that as the projects get further along in development, you'll agree that these games are worth the investment of your time and effort, that you can't simply lose everything even in the worst-case scenario that the projects are eventually abandoned by their respective publishers like City of Heroes was.

Being completely new games, I expect any Plan Z project to take at least two to three years to develop, as unlike the City of Heroes compatible server projects, they will be starting from scratch and having to develop the client, server, mechanics, and assets used in their final products.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 06:41:00 AM by TonyV »

Harpospoke

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2013, 09:41:34 AM »
Hey all, a few clarifications:
Thanks Tony...that was helpful.   All that stuff was pretty confusing to me.

Amph

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2013, 09:58:57 AM »
Thank you Tony, that clears up a lot of my (lurking) questions.

Frostyfrozen

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2013, 10:45:41 AM »
I see it like this...

City of Villains is mine.  What's on my hard drive is mine.  What's on my shelf is mine.  If it ever was theirs, they have abandoned it to me.  Evidence of this is the fact that they never bothered to come and pick it up, or pay me to store it for them.

And I'll make use of what is mine, just like I'll make use of an old Ford, when Ford no longer makes parts for it.
I love your way of thinking if I could give a thumps up! You'd have mine Sajaana. :)

Codewalker

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2013, 04:52:07 PM »
There is at least one more reverse engineering effort underway that I know of, intended to provide a compatible server with Issue 24

Issue 24.5 and Issue 25+ actually, probably not compatible with 24 out of the box.

But this is a SEGS thread and I have no idea what you're talking about.

Illusionss

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Re: Help out SEGS
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2013, 05:46:31 PM »
I hope you weren't offended by my reply as it really was just a joke.  I just think that every time one gets an opportunity to request images of another person's butt and remain on-topic, it is a civic duty to do so.

I knew it was a joke; I actually hesitated to use the word "booty," but since it was used in the video figured it would tie in best.



I really do wish we had ONE Plan Z going on, with all of the talent and direction headed in ONE direction. I feel we would get the game out the gate faster, and that things would be more coherent in general. I am not sure there is the market for 3 or 4 - or however many superhero-themed games which add up to more than one. But, egos....