Author Topic: Defender's Manifesto?  (Read 11293 times)

Nightmarer

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Defender's Manifesto?
« on: February 16, 2013, 09:01:23 AM »
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 01:37:30 PM by Nightmarer »

Tenzhi

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 09:16:16 AM »
If you start having fun, then other people might find it infectious and also have fun, and then where would we be?

Apparently when it becomes enough of a widespread problem someone in charge takes notice and immediately puts a stop to the fun. :P
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Nightmarer

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 09:17:59 AM »
Apparently when it becomes enough of a widespread problem someone in charge takes notice and immediately puts a stop to the fun. :P

Yeah, guess whoever wrote the guide, sent it to NCSoft CEO :p

Triplash

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 01:30:00 PM »
Sadly can't remember who wrote it but I'm grateful for all the laughs I get from it:

Their name was seebs, I just found their L2P website in my CoH bookmarks folder (strangely I don't remember putting it there, but hey, if I remembered everything I did my life would be much easier :P )

Quote
Ideally, the tank will die precisely as everyone else starts fighting, allowing aggro to be spread evenly among the blaster.

This was always my favorite quote from it ;D

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 04:17:48 PM »
Their name was seebs, I just found their L2P website in my CoH bookmarks folder (strangely I don't remember putting it there, but hey, if I remembered everything I did my life would be much easier :P )
Honestly i long suspected that seebs was taking credit for someone else's hard work. Most of that guide, especially the parts about planning and tanking, appeared to have been stolen from the personal notes of the player known in game by various names, mostly as Lord Stryker/Everstryke/Skyppy. He wasn't around for the last two years or so, but he was very outspoken and enthusiastic advocate of all of the methods in that guide, both on a team and SG level, during the years he was active. It seems unfair to give seebs all the credit since Skyppy spent years honing his strategies on the Champion server before moving to Virtue to bring his accumulated expertise to a larger audience. (And of course Champion by that point was largely familiar with his approach so there wasn't much left to teach them.)

Since seebs' guide only covered basic teaming and gameplay it left out Skyppy's amazing contributions on how to run an SG, which could have filled a guide on their own.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 06:36:17 PM by Nyx Nought Nothing »
So far so good. Onward and upward!

Nightmarer

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 05:40:30 PM »
Unfortunately, it seems I won't be getting the Defender's manifesto, pity, it was brilliant.-

Triplash

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 07:58:52 PM »
... Lord Stryker/Everstryke/Skyppy... It seems unfair to give seebs all the credit since Skyppy spent years honing his strategies on the Champion server before moving to Virtue to bring his accumulated expertise to a larger audience. (And of course Champion by that point was largely familiar with his approach so there wasn't much left to teach them.)

That's the life of a missionary, always on the road. When your pupils have learned all they can, it's time to move on to the next group of eager young minds.

(... yeah, I met that guy a time or two.  :-\ )

As for seebs' guide, well... every great hero needs a chronicler right?

Triplash

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 08:40:11 PM »
Unfortunately, it seems I won't be getting the Defender's manifesto, pity, it was brilliant.-

The old forums all got archived before they shut down. Archive.org seems to be hosting a copy here:

http://archive.org/details/archiveteam-city-of-heroes-main

It's a 219 gig .tar file, mind you... but from what I can tell, it's the entire forums backed up at some point in September. That's that manifesto plus all the other player guides that were there. I'm gonna grab a copy myself, so if I can find that guide I'll pull it out and post it here. (It just might take me a little while, is all.)

I'm not sure how much .tar compresses, but it's most likely going to be much bigger than 219 GB if you try to extract it all at once. So to anyone who goes after their own copy, I wouldn't suggest extracting it all at once. ;)

Mister Bison

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 10:20:23 PM »
I'm not sure how much .tar compresses, but it's most likely going to be much bigger than 219 GB if you try to extract it all at once. So to anyone who goes after their own copy, I wouldn't suggest extracting it all at once. ;)
.tar itself doesn't compresses. It just archives and put in one file, that is generally compressed through a one-file-compression algorithm (giving things such as tar.gz, tar.bz2, etc). If you tar a single directory, that's called a tar ball, that you can right-click and "extract here" or extract directly in command line without fear of having litter files everywhere. Of course, there is no way to tell if a tar is a tarball without opening it, which can lead to surprises...

If somebody decided to get & open up the tar, I'd be interested in salvaging a single discussion from it. But I wouldn't like to was 219 gigs of bandwidth for that single discussion (I may even be able to get it in google cache, but don't really know how. The Discussion is "OK... NOW I'm really sad" started by Bill Z Bubba.)
Yeeessss....

Triplash

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 11:26:38 PM »
.tar itself doesn't compresses. It just archives and put in one file, that is generally compressed through a one-file-compression algorithm

Well that's good to know, thanks.

As for the file though, I don't think I'll be picking it up after all. After a couple hours I only got about 32 megs through the torrent before the seeders pulled out, and at the speed I'm getting from the direct download it'll take over 10 straight days. That's a bit much for some forum posts. Sorry. But maybe somebody else already got it, can't hurt to ask around.

General Idiot

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 01:28:29 AM »
I'm pretty sure this isn't what you're talking about, but I found it looking through some old files and thought it was funny.

------------------------

Defenders in General
-Best defense is a good offense
-If everyone's dead, you can't defend.
-Vengeance and Fallout (teh lolz!)
-Leadership optional, but super-awesome and recommended
-Stamina optional, but blah blah
-Vigilance is the price we pay for being awesome
-X can be great, but the problem with X is the bad people who play X and make it loook bad. But X isn't bad. But people are bad.
-People aren't bad. People are great.
-8 Xs together is like OMERGZ
-have fun, or die in a fire.

Caveats by AT
Empathy
-Empaths do other things than heal
-Empaths can be fun to play
-Healing is great
-Empaths, sometimes, are the best
-Empaths, sometimes, *aren't* the best
-Some people who play empaths might be happier playing something else
-some people who play empaths are as happy as a clam in the mud.

Trick Arrow
-Trick Arrow is the plucky little sister of defenderdom, and beloved by all
-TA is also super-serious excellent at what it does
-Oil slick, Oil slick, Oil slick
-there were bugs, are they gone yet? Maybe.
-redraw

Radiation
-AM is great. We get it.
-toggle killers are bad
-toggle killers aren't *that* bad
-sometimes, seriously, they're bad
-Choking cloud--surprisingly chokey
-toggles + runners = anecdote (vengeance, fallout, mutation, lol)

Dark Miasma
-Howling twilight auto hits and has a disorient
-tar patch, tar patch, tar patch
-acc
-fluffy is your friend
-Better than rad, rad not as good, 4/5 puppies hugged in comparison to rad's 3/5.
-controllers for people who refuse to roll a controller!
-soloed something with all kinds of levels and purpleness
-psychic resist
-Stare more fearsomely

Forcefield
-Bubbling is annoying
-Some people enjoy bubbling
-Here's a macro that helps you bubble!
-You *still* have to go through the drudgery of it, no matter how much macroing you do. And it sucks.
-goes great with sonic
-can buff in combat
-plenty of free time to blast
-not orange

Sonic
-Bubbling is annoying
-Some people enjoy bubbling
-Here's a macro that helps you bubble!
-You *still* have to go through the drudgery of it, no matter how much macroing you do. And it sucks.
-goes great with FF
-can buff in combat
-plenty of free time to blast
-orange

Kinetic
-stay near my stuff or no heals
-speed boost awesome
-everyone wants speed boost, it gets tedious to give it out
-many people don't want speed boost--*these* are the people who need it the most
-siphon speed affects fly speed (Y/N)? Y
-doesn't need travel powers
-doesn't need stamina
-doesn't need to be a defender (fire/kin!)
-shifting fulcrums
-transfusion has -regen
-ID: When to cast? Answer: Sometimes.

Storm Summoning
-Knockback is great
-Knockback is horrible
-Freezing rain, snow storm! Also, snowstorm, freezing rain.
-Fun for some.
-Don't be a jerk, unless someone else was a jerk first. Screenshots or it didn't happen.
-Lstorm + hasten = insanely high pitched giggling.
-Tornado? Yes. How? Cannot explain. You must commune with the tornado.
-what about -knockback/AVs/acrobatics in pvp?
-If (!hurricane){hurricane();}

Blast sets
-yes we all want fire and cold, but according to the devs, that would shatter the earth. Unless it wouldn't, in which case, YAY! Fire and/or cold!
-Energy good. Unless you don't like it. Then energy bad. However, even if energy bad? Energy still good.
-Psy's range *does* help. Stop saying it doesn't.
-To nuke or not nuke? Nuke. Then respec.
-Aoe? Yes.
-Single target? yes.
-When running out of power slots, realize that life is hard, and then you die.
-.6 damage multiplier. No, we can't have more. Yes. I know. YES. I *KNOW*. But we can't have any. Yeah. Right. I KNOW, but it's .6 and it's staying .6. Right. Uh huh. Uh Huh. Good Point. Yeah. You know what? .6. Hmm? What was that? .6? I'm sorry, I thought you said .6. .6? I'm sorry I can't .6 you, I'm too busy .6ing. *blows brains out*
-Defenders blast. However, sometimes, defenders *don't* blast.
-when somebody picks a blast set for theme reasons, don't suggest to them that their theme is stupid and they should pick a differen blast set.
-when somebody picks a blast set because they think it's OMGERZ synergy!, tell them to pick a blast set for theme reasons or fun, because it's all good, baby... groovy.

JWBullfrog

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 03:26:25 AM »
My personal manifesto as a Defender...
 
1. This is going to hurt-but I'm going to jump into a fight to save that fool anyway.
 
2. If you run off ahead of me- you deserve what happens to you.
 
3. I am not just a healer- sometimes I'm your last chance.
 
4. Don't disrespect the Defender- unless you want to find out how hard life is without one.
As long as somebody keeps making up stories for it, the City isn't gone.

healix

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 12:15:39 PM »
Healers are like Depends... they cover your @ss while you're busy and prevent leakage.
Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

seebs

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2014, 06:44:26 AM »
Honestly i long suspected that seebs was taking credit for someone else's hard work. Most of that guide, especially the parts about planning and tanking, appeared to have been stolen from the personal notes of the player known in game by various names, mostly as Lord Stryker/Everstryke/Skyppy. He wasn't around for the last two years or so, but he was very outspoken and enthusiastic advocate of all of the methods in that guide, both on a team and SG level, during the years he was active. It seems unfair to give seebs all the credit since Skyppy spent years honing his strategies on the Champion server before moving to Virtue to bring his accumulated expertise to a larger audience. (And of course Champion by that point was largely familiar with his approach so there wasn't much left to teach them.)

Since seebs' guide only covered basic teaming and gameplay it left out Skyppy's amazing contributions on how to run an SG, which could have filled a guide on their own.

So I lost my copy of this guide, and I went looking for it, and I found it here, and I read this thread.

And then I had to go figure out whether I still had a Titan account and whether I could remember how to log in, because...

While this may have been a joke, it is in some part literally true. I based a whole lot of the SG stuff on Everstryke and their SG. Specifically. I mean, yes, I embellished a bit, I made up some stuff, I got some ideas from elsewhere, but a ton of the SG stuff, and also the thing about the elaborate tank-pulling mechanic, were based on run-ins with them.

Also, thanks much to the poster who saved this, because I totally thought I had a copy but I cannot find it now.

... actually, now I found my copy. The thing about costumes at the end of section 2 wasn't in my original, so that part's not mine. The rest is, although as noted, it's not necessarily all based on my own expertise.

JaguarX

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2014, 07:17:46 AM »
LOL came across my fair share of students of this guide on virtue. Funny stuff. Sucks for the targets though they pick to practice on. At first I thought it was a personality thing but then came to realize that it was a guide they were following.

MWRuger

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2014, 03:59:31 PM »
I'll download it. That's a big one, but I've done them before. Might take a while but I'll get it. Wanted to pull some guides out any way.
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Waffles

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2014, 04:24:42 PM »
Let's not forget, having "Kinetic" in your name essentially ensured you a team whenever you wanted one.

Burnt Toast

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2014, 05:50:18 PM »
I loathe the word HEALER. I never wanted a healer for any of my teams.. a defender sure.. a healer.. no thanks.


My SG name was called FRUIT SALAD .... I was and continue to be a huge believer in fruit salad. My main toons the first 4 or 5 years I played were defenders...none of which were "healers" not even my Empathy Defender. Sure I had heal other and heal aura...as well as Regen aura... but I was not a healer.... I was a Defender.


http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Morrisri/Fruit_Salad




blacksly

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2014, 06:06:16 PM »
I loathe the word HEALER. I never wanted a healer for any of my teams.. a defender sure.. a healer.. no thanks.

Heal me.

MWRuger

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2014, 06:14:16 PM »
SB please. Nao!!!!!
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Nealix

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2014, 06:46:09 PM »
My first level 50 was an empathy/mental blast defender.  On some teams being an empathy defender was a lot like playing 'whack a mole' as you constantly tried to keep team members alive.  Those were usually teams without tanks.  It always made me happy when I managed to keep one of those teams up and everyone would praise my heals.

I had that character with hasten and I slotted recharge reduction IO sets so I could keep both RA's up most of the time.  I had a lot of fun with that character and rediscovered him, after a couple of years of not playing him, when incarnate content came out.  I think he was my only level 50 defender.  Once corrupters came out I usually preferred them over defenders, especially once you could switch sides.

DarkCurrent

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2014, 06:59:40 PM »
I loathe the word HEALER. I never wanted a healer for any of my teams.. a defender sure.. a healer.. no thanks.


My SG name was called FRUIT SALAD .... I was and continue to be a huge believer in fruit salad. My main toons the first 4 or 5 years I played were defenders...none of which were "healers" not even my Empathy Defender. Sure I had heal other and heal aura...as well as Regen aura... but I was not a healer.... I was a Defender.


http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Morrisri/Fruit_Salad

Did you rock that aura?  Especially at the trainer?  Really shows off your 1337 h34l sk1lz.

LadyVamp

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2014, 07:16:04 PM »
My personal manifesto as a Defender...
 
1. This is going to hurt-but I'm going to jump into a fight to save that fool anyway.
 
2. If you run off ahead of me- you deserve what happens to you.
 
3. I am not just a healer- sometimes I'm your last chance.
 
4. Don't disrespect the Defender- unless you want to find out how hard life is without one.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I'd like to add 1 though:

5. When I say the tank/brute is getting everything, don't whine to me about rezzing you.  I'm too busy keeping our body guard that you got in trouble alive.
No Surrender!

DocHornet

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2014, 01:09:28 AM »
Here's my personal Defender Manifest-No ... in flow chart form!  :)



fearalice

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2014, 02:01:41 AM »
Personally i felt the Sonic/Sonic defender far surpassed the same as a corruptor. The debuffs on the attacks were more potent, the resistance buffs were more potent.

Me and two other friends all ran the same sonic sonic defender setups, and the compounding debuffs made scrappers go ballistic with the damage they were doing. It was a riot! =D

blacksly

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2014, 12:23:09 PM »
Defenders were statistically better with the buffs, and generally better with damage when soloing.
Corruptors were better with damage on teams. Since team damage usually is focused upon AoEs, Corruptors end up doing more AoE damage.

If you wish to team and not blast much, Defenders are good. If you wish to solo and solo AVs, Defenders are good. If you wish to team and blast as a major action rather than as an afterthought, Corruptors are good.

MMs are a different game, leaving aside that their secondary selections were a bit limited.

Burnt Toast

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2014, 07:54:54 PM »

Nope I never rocked the aura on my Empathy Defender or any other defender. Only time I put a heal (Heal Other) on auto was pre-Issue 9 Hami raids when I was on aggro team and was healing the tank. That got extremely boring so I decided to roll an Illusion/Rad Troller so I could alternate and be on the drop team as well.







Did you rock that aura?  Especially at the trainer?  Really shows off your 1337 h34l sk1lz.

Triplash

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2014, 12:50:31 AM »
I'll download it. That's a big one, but I've done them before. Might take a while but I'll get it. Wanted to pull some guides out any way.

I don't think you need to DL the whole thing anymore. The archive has since been formatted and put up as a site you can browse again. Some of the links still lead to the old location, but overall it works fine for looking up the old stuff. For example the search function doesn't work anymore, but you can still flip pages manually.

Here's the main page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904100456/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/index.php

And here's the Player Guides section:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904103636/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=585

Nealix

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Re: Defender's Manifesto?
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2014, 12:07:04 AM »
I never rocked the aura either.  I always had hasten on auto.