Ko's Twitter 'Rant' About #COH, #SaveCOH, and What the Community is Becoming...

[Taceus Jiwede]

I really don't want to make this worse but I just have to say.

Cobra Man if you feel that way that's cool if there is a place to rant about it, then it is here.  If you want to be a thorn in the side of NCSoft that is fine by me, they deserve a few thorns in their side.

But when people go to other forums or articles comments etc etc and start ranting about COH and getting in nasty arguments with people who don't agree and start calling them names, or just even ranting about NCSoft and how much they hate them.  All that does is piss people off, you have become a thorn in the side of the people we want on our side, not NCSofts. 

I have seen it before several times before, eventually people get so tired of hearing it and they say

"Shit I am glad NCSoft shut your game down"

or

"At first I was upset the game shut down but I am so sick of these people always in these articles, I am glad its shut down just to piss them off"

You are having the opposite effect of your goal here.
 
If you want to hate NCSoft go ahead, they have given you a reason to clearly.  But like you said you want NCSoft to pay for what they have done, well, then we need people on our side, not pissed off at us.  Also the way you talk about "you couldn't care less." Take a second to evaluate why you are so angry.


You say NCSoft has betrayed us.  I agree, they have treated us like crap, they have neglected us.  It's almost as if they don't care about other people, they don't care that the things they do affect other people.  In other words, They couldn't care less about us.  Why would you take on the attitude and the actions of those who have wronged you? you wish to punish NCSoft for what they have done by treating others the same way NCSoft treated you?  Those are people you are taking about, not highly detailed NPC's in the world.  The people at Arenanet and Carbine have families they have to support and feed.  Children who need clothes, school supplies, FOOD.

You are angry, I understand.  You are passionate, that's a good thing.  But just make sure you are using that passion in a way that will help not only us but you as well.

[Twisted Toon]

Harsh?

How much harsher can it get?

Our game has been shut down and NCsoft are happy with that situation.

Sometimes a stand has to be made.

You are correct in that a stand has to be made. However, there are different methods to make that stand.

Some people opt for the Blue-side method. Other people opt for the Red-side method.

Unfortunately, the Red-side method is less than helpful for the cause.

Occasionally, expressing your opinion about how NCSoft screwed the pooch with their handling of the sun-setting of CoH, isn't as deleterious as spray-painting "NCSoft is the devil!" on every flat surface in the universe. Even, occasionally, stating that you are boycotting anything funded by NCSoft (and why) isn't as bad as stating that you hope everyone associated with "that company" produces painful purple pustules on their posteriors.

Words have meaning. They also have connotations that we need to be aware of. We do not want to give people a reason to think that the CoH movement is something that it is not. We are not a bunch of raving lunatics that want to raze the world because our game was taken away. We are a community that is trying to change the way companies do business so this won't happen again. And, hopefully, get our city back again in the process. We are Heroes. This is what we do.

If you can't pull yourself away from the Red-side long enough to actually be helpful in this endeavor, I would suggest you plot in silence so as not to harm it any further.

It's not about hating NCsoft.

It's entirely about disagreeing with their actions regarding the closure of CoH - and by what means you can express that.

I have taken it upon myself to boycott any company that has dealings with NCsoft. It's a small gesture, but it's mine to make.

If more people take a similar stand then perhaps the message will get to NCsoft.

Anyways .. it's late here (05:20) and I'm off to bed ....

There is a difference between boycotting a company and wishing that company to fail utterly. You have taken it beyond just boycotting though.
What I read from your "stand" is that you will accept nothing less than the complete and utter destruction of NCSoft and anything remotely related to it.

I will not buy anything form NCSoft because I can not trust NCSoft will ensure that the product will still be available to use a year from now. I do not wish the company to fail utterly. I do wish for them to review their business practices and alter them to be a bit (ok, a lot) more customer friendly. If they do that, and show that they will stand by that change in business practices, I would be happy to do business with them again.

In fact, I would wish that all businesses would do that. I have always said that repeat customers is the best way a company stays in business. In order to have repeat customers, the customers have to be able to trust the company.

[Cobra Man]

There seems to be a lot of words being put in my mouth that I haven't said here.

I don't want "the complete and utter destruction of NCSoft and anything remotely related to it" and I certainly don't want the families of ArenaNet and Carbine to go hungry anytime soon.

What I do want is for NCsoft and companies that do business with them to know the depths of my anger in how we have all been treated here.

It would we be easy to shrug my shoulders and simply move on to another game - GW2 perhaps - and just chalk up the loss of CoH as just another game that was canceled.

Words have meaning but so do actions, and not letting a company have your cash is one that has the most meaning in the business world.

I'm choosing not to and I'm choosing not to buy any NCsoft, ArenaNet or Carbine products because I care about what happened.

I'm not going to go to every forum I can and make the same remarks, but I will here if I disagree with a forum thread post.

[Twisted Toon]

There seems to be a lot of words being put in my mouth that I haven't said here.

I don't want "the complete and utter destruction of NCSoft and anything remotely related to it" and I certainly don't want the families of ArenaNet and Carbine to go hungry anytime soon.

That is not what I read from this previous post of yours.

First off, I've been a fan of your work for years, but I feel the need to respond here.

Blame is an easy word to use, but in this case it's incorrect.

Betrayal - by NCsoft - is far more appropriate.

You may not like the negativity towards ArenaNet and Carbine etc but I find myself hoping for nothing but total failure for them, such is my utter disappointment with the actions of NCsoft.

I could care less what anyone else thinks of my position on that.

NCsoft can go to Hell  - and so can any company that associates itself with them.

Not one penny of mine will go to any company that does business with NCsoft.

If that makes you uncomfortable then so be it.

I know that I'm better than them.

The only person putting words in your mouth is you.

Boycotting is fine. It is a valid method of letting a business know that you are unhappy with them. Just try to keep it Blue-side.

[Ampithere]

I agree to an extent that we shouldn't be negative. But...do I want Wildstar to fail? Do I want Blade and Soul to fail? Do I want NCSoft to vanish from the face of the earth? Yes, yes I do. I think they are a terrible company with bad business practices and it's about time that the gaming community was told that NCSoft doesn't care about them. My negativity is limited to NCSoft specifically though.

What's a shame is the people that diss Champions or DCUO for not being CoH. I feel the same pain that those people do when I try to play those games. I really do. But we can't blame the developers or the players there. If you're like me, you are done with superhero games until an emu rolls around or the Phoenix Project has a beta. Those are the only things that are going to possibly fill the void.

P.S. I'm also negative towards Marvel Heroes. But I mean come on. It was just a terrible idea from the start and they don't deserve to make money from that. Honestly.

[Illusionss]

I don't want "the complete and utter destruction of NCSoft and anything remotely related to it"

Have to admit it, I kinda do.

I'm not anywheres ranting about it, but any ill winds that blow thier way.... well.... they bought and paid for 'em. If they want to dish it out, they better be able to take it.

Not too pleased with gaming companies as a whole right now, anyways. Nowadays, to DL a PC game you are forced to DL "anti-pirating" software, monitored by a second company. And in the case of programs like SecuRom, you might have to wipe your HD to get it off. Its that tenacious.

*gives entire gaming industry the side-eye* Who do you companies think you ARE? A modern police-state? No offense to those present, but to the gaming industry in general? **** you people. The more money I spend, the less I like you.

[JaguarX]

Not too pleased with gaming companies as a whole right now, anyways. Nowadays, to DL a PC game you are forced to DL "anti-pirating" software, monitored by a second company. And in the case of programs like SecuRom, you might have to wipe your HD to get it off. Its that tenacious.

*gives entire gaming industry the side-eye* Who do you companies think you ARE? A modern police-state? No offense to those present, but to the gaming industry in general? **** you people. The more money I spend, the less I like you.

yep.

[FatherXmas]

Have to admit it, I kinda do.

I'm not anywheres ranting about it, but any ill winds that blow thier way.... well.... they bought and paid for 'em. If they want to dish it out, they better be able to take it.

Not too pleased with gaming companies as a whole right now, anyways. Nowadays, to DL a PC game you are forced to DL "anti-pirating" software, monitored by a second company. And in the case of programs like SecuRom, you might have to wipe your HD to get it off. Its that tenacious.

*gives entire gaming industry the side-eye* Who do you companies think you ARE? A modern police-state? No offense to those present, but to the gaming industry in general? **** you people. The more money I spend, the less I like you.

Stardock had a rant about this a few years ago why they don't include DRM.  The problem as they see it revolves around development budgets and platform requirements.  The AAA titles cost so much to develop and their recommended system requirements so high that they need an absurd percentage of gamers with such systems to buy their game just to make any money off of it.  That's why you have the nasty DRM being used.  Their recommendation was to design games with lower system requirements, to increase the overall pool of players who can play the game, while keeping development costs within reason.  Then it's not as critical if you "lose" sales to pirates.  Lastly provide great service for those with legitimate copies through downloadable content.

Some companies today are trying to avoid intrusive DRM for always online.  It provides central validation that the copy is legitimate.  Of course that's a problem if you are playing a single player game somewhere that an internet isn't available, like on a plane or your in-laws.

[Arcana]

As for the grammar Nazi thing ... I could care less :)

Couldn't care less.

[Cobra Man]

That is not what I read from this previous post of yours.

The only person putting words in your mouth is you.

Boycotting is fine. It is a valid method of letting a business know that you are unhappy with them. Just try to keep it Blue-side.

Utter disappointment and they can go to hell. Those were my words.

Those aren't even close to utter destruction or starving families.

You need to try harder.

[Cobra Man]

Couldn't care less.

It's immaterial to me. I could care less .... :)

[Mister Bison]

It's immaterial to me. I could care less .... :)

You may mean innumerable, and that's another part of grammar...

[Taceus Jiwede]

I find myself hoping for nothing but total failure for them

Those aren't even close to utter destruction or starving families.
You need to try harder.

That is the one that got it for me, we aren't trying to make you sound stupid, we are telling you stop being a cold blooded dick Cobra man.

Please, I encourage you to tell me how TOTAL FAILURE FOR THEM would result in anything less then hardships.  What happens when you do bad at a job? YOU GET FIRED.  What happens when you get fired.  YOU STOP GETTING PAID.  By wishing for the failures of these companies you are wishing that they don't succeed as a game which will lead to their unemployment.  Oh but you "could care less" which is why you keep coming back to defend your self, right?

Also everyone else STOP WISHING THAT THESE GAMES AND DEVELOPERS FAIL Are you really so mad that you take on the attitude "If my game can't run then no ones game can"  You should be wishing that they get bought out by another company or go indie, yes I would love NCSoft to fail.  But I am not a huge douchebag that hopes thousands of people get the shaft so the handful of people who shut down COH get what they deserve, WHICH THEY WOULDN'T.  All of you on a crusade, all of you on a mission.  The people responsable for the closure of City of heroes, will never pay.  There is nothing you can do to make them pay, EVER.  You think anything you can do will make them less rich, less happy, less successful?  Even if NCSoft burns to the ground they will be just fine.  So worry about getting our game back AND NOT SOME STUPID FOOL HEARTY MISSION TO MAKE NCSOFT PAY, wont happen, cant happen.  Get the pancake over it.  Put your pride and ego side and focus on getting our game back.

That is a disgusting, weak minded, assholeish attitude.  Anyone who wishes the pain that NCSoft inflicted on them to be inflicted onto others.  Don't deserve the game back.

I don't mean to get angry but to see such a lack of empathy and disregard for others make me sick to my stomach.  You really want to become as bad as the monster you are fighting?  You guys want GW2 and Wildstar to fail so COH TITAN CAN BE THE NEXT MMO KILLER ?

If I crossed the line sorry, but many of you crossed mine when you started hoping for the failure of companies and people who did nothing to you.

What I am hearing is that some of the people here want 97% of the innocent people to pay.  You think the people who answer phones at NCSoft had anything to do with the closure of NCSoft?  But hey you guys what do I know.  I suppose hundreds of thousands of people do deserve to suffer and struggle for the actions of maybe a hundred people who wont suffer or struggle in anyway at all.  Makes sense to me.

[Samuraiko]

... I suppose I should be grateful that at least we're turning on one another in the privacy of our own forums instead of out in public.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[Minotaur]

Not going to quote TJ's post as it should have been pancake filtered but appears it wasn't.

Wishing NCSoft fails is not necessarily non-constructive. At this point it seems like the only way the CoH IP will be released, also IIRC Arenanet have a clause that means the IP would revert to them so they would survive, unsure about carbine. The people it would mainly hurt are in the Korean HQ, and I think quite a few people here would shed few tears over that.

The people that answer the phones in the states might experience some uncertainty, but I suspect whoever takes over the running of the games would need them.

[Arcana]

Please, I encourage you to tell me how TOTAL FAILURE FOR THEM would result in anything less then hardships.

I suppose its theoretically possible for everyone at NCSoft to leave the company simultaneously and form a new company that is much more successful.  I think that's unlikely though, as NCSoft is not a bistro.

[Cobra Man]

That is the one that got it for me, we aren't trying to make you sound stupid, we are telling you stop being a cold blooded dick Cobra man.

Please, I encourage you to tell me how TOTAL FAILURE FOR THEM would result in anything less then hardships.  What happens when you do bad at a job? YOU GET FIRED.  What happens when you get fired.  YOU STOP GETTING PAID.  By wishing for the failures of these companies you are wishing that they don't succeed as a game which will lead to their unemployment.  Oh but you "could care less" which is why you keep coming back to defend your self, right?

Also everyone else STOP WISHING THAT THESE GAMES AND DEVELOPERS FAIL Are you really so mad that you take on the attitude "If my game can't run then no ones game can"  You should be wishing that they get bought out by another company or go indie, yes I would love NCSoft to fail.  But I am not a huge douchebag that hopes thousands of people get the shaft so the handful of people who shut down COH get what they deserve, WHICH THEY WOULDN'T.  All of you on a crusade, all of you on a mission.  The people responsable for the closure of City of heroes, will never pay.  There is nothing you can do to make them pay, EVER.  You think anything you can do will make them less rich, less happy, less successful?  Even if NCSoft burns to the ground they will be just fine.  So worry about getting our game back AND NOT SOME STUPID FOOL HEARTY MISSION TO MAKE NCSOFT PAY, wont happen, cant happen.  Get the pancake over it.  Put your pride and ego side and focus on getting our game back.

That is a disgusting, weak minded, assholeish attitude.  Anyone who wishes the pain that NCSoft inflicted on them to be inflicted onto others.  Don't deserve the game back.

I don't mean to get angry but to see such a lack of empathy and disregard for others make me sick to my stomach.  You really want to become as bad as the monster you are fighting?  You guys want GW2 and Wildstar to fail so COH TITAN CAN BE THE NEXT MMO KILLER ?

If I crossed the line sorry, but many of you crossed mine when you started hoping for the failure of companies and people who did nothing to you.

What I am hearing is that some of the people here want 97% of the innocent people to pay.  You think the people who answer phones at NCSoft had anything to do with the closure of NCSoft?  But hey you guys what do I know.  I suppose hundreds of thousands of people do deserve to suffer and struggle for the actions of maybe a hundred people who wont suffer or struggle in anyway at all.  Makes sense to me.

Total failure means total failure in a business sense.

It's hardly utter destruction now is it?

If a business venture or something like a game project fails (totally or otherwise) the people involved move on to another project.

Families don't starve or get ripped apart. Life simply gets on with itself.

I may sound like a 'cold blooded dick' and a 'huge douchebag' to you and you might find my position on matters to be a 'disgusting, weak minded, assholeish attitude'.

If that's the case then so be it. I'm not going to argue with you.

NCsoft made me feel this way and I'll damn well let others know just exactly how I'm feeling about their selfish and narrow minded behavior.

If that upsets you, then again .. so be it. I have no axe to grind with anyone here but I'm becoming increasingly frustrated and angry about what I perceive to be acquiescence regarding the situation.

That's exactly what NCsoft want and expect to happen.

My apologies to everyone who has taken offense to my ramblings.

I'm just old, tired and grumpy ..... and I want my game back.

[TonyV]

You think anything you can do will make them less rich, less happy, less successful?

I don't necessarily entirely disagree with you, but I find this attitude extraordinarily defeatist.  Thinking like this, how does on ever hope to effect change for anything?  If the status quo never changes, why even bother getting out of bed in the morning?  This is exactly what large companies want you to believe.

Please, I encourage you to tell me how TOTAL FAILURE FOR THEM would result in anything less then hardships.

You're under the false assumption that NCsoft not experiencing total failure would not result in hardships.  Here are a few ways for examples:

1) Almost all of the people who get laid off should NCsoft fail will get other jobs.  Almost all of those will be with better companies.  Of the ones who don't or won't, it's not like people wouldn't have gotten laid off anyway if NCsoft stays in business in the status quo.  Or put another way, what if there had been a successful Save Tabula Rasa movement that resulted in NCsoft folding and their assets, including Paragon Studios/City of Heroes, being sold off?  It's entirely possible that Paragon Studios might be an independent publisher/developer today, or at the very least, carried on under some other company's banner.

2) If NCsoft goes out of business, especially if it's due to the efforts of some in our community, it will be a very clear message to other megapublishers that what NCsoft did is not acceptable.  It's entirely possible that it could help to keep other studios open.  If there is no negative consequences to NCsoft and the status quo is maintained, it will likewise be a very clear message to other megapublishers that it's okay to kick communities to the curb without much fear of negative reprisals.

3) In spite of your insistence that there would be no negative consequences to the executive management team at NCsoft, you don't know that.  There are plenty of examples of executive managers who run their companies in the ground and are considered too toxic to run other companies.  Will they still be rich?  I don't know, probably.  Will they still be happy?  I don't know, depends on how they define happy.  But will they be in a position to run other companies into the ground?  Probably not.  Even if so, surely after seeing NCsoft going up in flames, they wouldn't be so quick to make the same mistakes.

4) Practically speaking, about the only way that the IP to City of Heroes will ever be pried from NCsoft's fingers will be if either their senior management is replaced, they're forced to give it up, or some other company makes them an offer they can't refuse.  Community members are working on all three aspects of these goals.  Under no circumstances will maintaining the status quo result in legally getting the game back.  And in case it's not obvious, if the game is brought back, that means creation of jobs that wouldn't have otherwise been around.

Meanwhile, one thing you're overlooking is that there is still a lot of bitterness that NCsoft earned over closing Paragon Studios and shuttering City of Heroes.  I know that Father Xmas and some others will disagree with me on this and that's okay, but I'm convinced that profits from City of Heroes were funneled into development of other games.  So while I'm not sitting here saying, "I hope that all of those ArenaNet people get laid off!", I will admit that yeah, I hope that NCsoft as a company is severely punished in the marketplace to the extent that their executive management looks like crap for making the bad decisions they make.

Have you ever been in a store or a restaurant that is so lousy, and been treated so badly, that you say something like, "This place is awful and I'm never coming back here again!  And I'm telling all of my friends and family about this!"  If so, did you really secretly mean, "I hope that the janitor who is a nice guy who has nothing to do with the crappy service and is trying to support his three kids gets laid off so that he and his family have to starve!"?  If not, then in spite of the outrage over people hoping that NCsoft fails, you understand where people are coming from more than you're letting on.

[eabrace]

... I suppose I should be grateful that at least we're turning on one another in the privacy of our own forums instead of out in public.

Yeah, there's that.  :-\

[Taceus Jiwede]

First off I would like to start by apologizing, I just lost my temper.  I very much so respect all of you and your opinion and I didn't mean to lash out.  But I have lost count of the amount of times I, my friends, or my family has been screwed royally by people not taking into consideration the chain of events that take place.  I once faced 15 years in prison for a crime I never did, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person.  Simply guilt by association and it took a $20,000 lawyer and a year and half in a court just to have them say "Even though we knew you were innocent you were just someone caught on the crossfire"  I just don' want a bunch of people that had nothing to do with this to be caught in our cross fire.

Cobra man I don't think you are an a-hole or a douche I really don't, but its easy for good intentions to slip into those areas.

You're under the false assumption that NCsoft not experiencing total failure would not result in hardships

Very fair point Tony V. That is why I wish for those companies to go their own direction or have at the very least a buyout like Arenanet does.  I don't want those companies to under go hardships and I want them as far away from NCSoft as possible, not shutdown or to fail for their associations I just want people to take that approach instead of "They work with NCSoft let them burn."

but I find this attitude extraordinarily defeatist

Again, fair point. I can see how it would come off that way.  I still have hope for CoH, I still want to fight and I really do think NCSoft should acknowledge their mistakes and learn from it.  I would love game companies to stop pushing around their customers as well.  I just want to make sure we don't become the monsters we are fighting, and I don't want us to stoop to their level.

I would like to see NCSoft pay for what they have done, I would.  But I just cant help but think of all the people who would be getting hurt so much more then the people who actually were behind the CoH shutdown.  I am thinking of the mail room people, the receptionist, the interns etc etc.

Like you said TonyV

If NCsoft goes out of business, especially if it's due to the efforts of some in our community, it will be a very clear message to other megapublishers that what NCsoft did is not acceptable.  It's entirely possible that it could help to keep other studios open.  If there is no negative consequences to NCsoft and the status quo is maintained, it will likewise be a very clear message to other megapublishers that it's okay to kick communities to the curb without much fear of negative reprisals.

I hope our efforts here do change the way publishers think they can treat people.  I just don't want people being caught in the crossfire who literally didn't do anything but have a bad employer.

If we are going to be the community that tries and change the way publishers and gaming companies act.  Then we need to lead by example.

And in case it's not obvious, if the game is brought back, that means creation of jobs that wouldn't have otherwise been around.

That would be awesome it would, I am just looking for a way that doesn't cost a bunch of people that had nothing to do with the closure losing their jobs is all.  Best case scenario both would happen.

To sum it up, if NCSoft can fail and not bring down a bunch of people who are just trying to make a living and get through the day, then that is great.  I just really want people to consider how many people may be caught in the crossfire of that happening.  How many people would get laid off to try and save the company for bankruptcy.  Things like that.  Now of course the world doesn't ever work out the way you want but I feel the best possible outcome of all of this is:CoH IP is released,  Gaming companies learn they can't treat their customers/fans this way, and also that there isn't a bunch of collateral damage.   I am just worried we will become zealots hell-bent on destroying NCSoft more then we are trying to rescue CoH and change the standard for companies.

Again sorry for my language, and my attitude but to quote Tony again even though this is directed to everyone that read my other post.

you understand where people are coming from more than you're letting on.

I understand exactly where everyone is coming from I am angry at NCSoft too, but I also understand how easy it is to be royally screwed by simply just not knowing it may be a chain reaction.   I don't care if people are mad at NCSoft I really don't, I just care that people are mad at people who had nothing to do with it, I feel our passion and anger should be aimed in the right direction.

For the mods:  I should of watched my language, sorry.  But maybe this will help your filter system when I was using the bold command it somehow didn't censor the word.

NCSoft executives are a bunch of greedy jerks, I know this.  People are angry I know this too, I am angry as well and want my game back.  But we can't stoop down to their level.  I am more concerned about the re-birth of City of Heroes, then I am the destruction of NCSoft.  There is a way to show companies they can't act this way without all the fire and brimstone.

Unrelated:

"This place is awful and I'm never coming back here again!  And I'm telling all of my friends and family about this!"  If so, did you really secretly mean, "I hope that the janitor who is a nice guy who has nothing to do with the crappy service and is trying to support his three kids gets laid off so that he and his family have to starve!"?

A fair question so I feel you deserve an answer.

I don't tell people things like that.  If I don't like a restaurant I just won't eat there, I will leave the decision up to other people if they want to eat there or not.  I would also take it up with the manager and tell him where I think he could improve, now we tried this with NCSoft and it didn't work.  More importantly though that restaurant would close because of its poor service and food, the same way eventually NCsoft will close because of their poor service.  However if I were to say that, of course I wouldn't secretly mean that.  That is my whole point.  Of course people don't want these people to fail I am not accusing anyone of that.  I am saying the chain reaction of that restaurant closing would be the janitor out of a job, no one even considered the janitor that is what bothered me so much.  It seems no one is considering these worker bees that had nothing to do with it.  And if I knew my actions put that janitor out on his behind because I forgot to consider him, I would feel terrible.

Long post sorry.  TonyV just to let you know while I used your quotes this post was directed to everyone I may have insulted or been rude too.  I just felt that replying to your post alone was able to sum up how I actually felt now that I have cooled down.