Author Topic: An Idea  (Read 5405 times)

jdg916

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 2
An Idea
« on: February 03, 2013, 03:21:26 AM »
A question for the tech guys; I'm curious if it would be possible to play the game locally on your own computer, using it in place of the server needed to login? Teaming with other would obviously be out of the question if this is possible. Would like to fly/ss/sj/tp across Atlas again.

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: An Idea
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 04:54:44 AM »
While I can't speak for the tech guys... I'd advise patience.

They've already cracked things sufficiently to give us "Icon," so we have access to the game's character creator, under the two month mark. That's very encouraging.

LadyShin

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
Re: An Idea
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 08:02:12 AM »
Honestly...I'm doubtful that it's possible without either rewriting the code in the game to point to a certain IP address as a server..or rewriting it to be single-player.. and/or removing the requirement for the NCSoft loader to execute it.

Cracking is one thing...making actual revisions is another..and has certain legal consequences...I'm sure..? ???



Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L397TWLwrUU  8)
"Frank! It's the love boat to Cuba! Shuffle board and pineapples filled with rum. Know what they do? They put little paper umbrellas sticking out the top so that when it rains, it don't thin out the liquor."

TonyV

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • Paragon Wiki
Re: An Idea
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 08:22:18 AM »
The thing is, there has to be a server on the other side of the client connection obeying its API to tell the client stuff like what map you're on, where you are, where the camera is, etc.  That really is the hard part, as writing even something as simple as just a server that allows you to walk around an empty map is a monumental task, let alone anything that would allow you to use powers, fight villains, etc.  But make no mistake, there are people working on it.

General Idiot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: An Idea
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 10:53:06 AM »
Even to do it locally you'd need most of the server functionality in place anyway. All it would need from there to be a fully functional server would be more power and reliability to run thousands of players rather than just one, and an internet connection with the required bandwidth. Everything else you'd need regardless even in a local server, and you're not going to get the client running without the other half of that equation.

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: An Idea
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 05:28:21 PM »
Another idea.

"...there has to be a server on the other side of the client connection obeying its API to tell the client stuff like what map you're on, where you are, where the camera is, etc.  That really is the hard part, as writing even something as simple as just a server that allows you to walk around an empty map is a monumental task, let alone anything that would allow you to use powers, fight villains, etc.  But make no mistake, there are people working on it."

Okay, that's that. But in the meantime, let's assume our people will be successful, given time.

Right now, we have the Icon program, we have access to our beloved character creator. How difficult would it be to have some of our artistically-minded folks editing the costume graphics files?

For example, a lot of the "patterns" are at a lower resolution because they were created at game release. Let's assume we will actually manage to create our own server. Is anything stopping us from replacing the costume graphics with our own? What's stopping us from taking over "Sexy Jay's" job, and creating and sharing whatever costumes we want? We could also reorganize things a bit.

I myself would love to contribute to such a project, if I knew what programs were necessary and where the graphics were stored. That would keep a lot of us busy and happy.

Nebularian

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 167
    • Voyages of Imagination
Re: An Idea
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 05:32:46 PM »
WOW.  I hadn't thought of that.  And I suppose, as long as they are simply private things now...even some Iconic symbols/costumes could be added.   What a thought.
(@Nebularian)(AKA Dylan Clearbrook) Champion/Virtue - Nebularian/Sgt. Raines/Nurse Darklight/Cosmicana-Cosmicella/Mercy Vengeance/Angel Sprite/Suzy Uzi/Blue Arc/Dark Carolyne 
 Website: The Continuum Worlds

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: An Idea
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 05:42:37 PM »
Hmm.. concerned about that. I was a part of the graphics editing group that created custom skins for the old Freedom Force game. Several of our sites like the Skindex had C 'n Ds served up from Marvel. And now Marvel's owned by Disney. Probably best not to tick off Disney just now, yes? Time Warner either.

Still, glad you dig the idea.

I wonder if we could tidy up some of the animations too?

LadyShin

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
Re: An Idea
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 11:11:27 PM »
"Frank! It's the love boat to Cuba! Shuffle board and pineapples filled with rum. Know what they do? They put little paper umbrellas sticking out the top so that when it rains, it don't thin out the liquor."

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: An Idea
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 11:13:44 PM »

Arachnion

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
  • Professional Cynic
Re: An Idea
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 11:49:06 PM »
Hmm..btw - NCSoft's official EULA:

*legal snip*

We really want to head down this road? O.o

NCSoft wronged us all by shutting down *our* game.

As long as we don't do anything for profit, or something that is blatantly violating their IP, we'll be fine.

Relax, 8)
I'm all dressed up with nowhere to go
Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder

Waiting for an invitation to arrive
Goin' to a party where no one's still alive

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: An Idea
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 12:20:52 AM »
Thank you, Dylan.

LadyShin, NCSoft's EULA is void. It expired the day they shut down the server. It's of no more consequence.

We are already modifying the game, as the "Icon" program proves. If you're that concerned about the intellectual property rights -- in today's climate?!  :o  -- of that douchebag company, well you don't hafta download it. :: Shrug. ::
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 02:54:53 AM by Colette »

Little Green Frog

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 246
  • @Little Green Frog
Re: An Idea
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2013, 05:36:12 AM »
A question for the tech guys; I'm curious if it would be possible to play the game locally on your own computer, using it in place of the server needed to login? Teaming with other would obviously be out of the question if this is possible. Would like to fly/ss/sj/tp across Atlas again.

Yes, but you will still need a server of some sort. It will just be operating on the same machine as the client, but there's no way around the client-server architecture.

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: An Idea
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2013, 04:43:34 PM »
Once the techies have the game working, perhaps they could modify the game to do this. I expect that's for later, though, given what Tony's saying.

LightofthePhoenix

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
Re: An Idea
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 11:28:18 PM »
LadyShin, NCSoft's EULA is void. It expired the day they shut down the server. It's of no more consequence.

I think this.  Considering they forced us to press accept every time we wanted to log in while the game was up, they can no longer force us to accept it since we can't log in anymore, and the game technically doesn't even exist anymore.

I'm sure there's some legal mumbo jumbo that makes things more muddy than my reasoning but really... we can no longer press accept even if we want to, for all intents and purposes the EULA doesn't exist for a game that doesn't exist.
My CoH documentary class project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGcFC197rfQ

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: An Idea
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2013, 02:13:44 AM »
In regards to a local server... sure.  You would need two computers, and the server code and whatever else hodgepodging to do that (account server, etc.)  And the client computer, of course.

If you can get a local IP'd server up and running, then it is possible to have a local router to redirect any request to any other server to that local one, and have a lot of fun playing with yourself.  Easy!

/Wait... something about that doesn't sound right.

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: An Idea
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2013, 02:44:06 AM »
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Codewalker

  • Hero of the City
  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,740
  • Moar Dots!
Re: An Idea
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2013, 02:50:50 AM »
I can do you one better, VV...

Emphasis mine:
Quote
(iii) modify, or create a derivative work of, any Service, Content, Software, or parts thereof; and/or

Created a character? You violated the EULA.

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: An Idea
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2013, 02:57:35 AM »
Jeez, and I forgot Paragon Wiki, which copied over entire parts of the dialogue.

Let's not forget all of the fanfiction out there as well.

You know, given all that...I think NCSoft would actually be hard put to defend its copyright, since they not only didn't defend it before, but actually encouraged violations of their own EULA.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Primantis

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 37
Re: An Idea
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2013, 03:19:27 AM »
Thank you, Dylan.

LadyShin, NCSoft's EULA is void. It expired the day they shut down the server. It's of no more consequence.


Not to mention the legal power of EULA's are dubious to begin with..

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: An Idea
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2013, 04:48:11 AM »
Start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone!

Gather 'round, children. We all know how many bootleg DVDs get made in China. We all know about P2P piracy. This is a different era. It's an era where the copyright of your intellectual property still depends partly upon the lawyers you can afford, but now also partly upon the goodwill of your audience.

For example, I boycott movies like The Hunger Games, because I admire the original novel by Koushin Takami. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Royale) If some paid corporate liar dared plagiarize one of Larry's or Misty's novels, I'd be similarly up in arms, and I'd expect y'all to follow, with the usual pitchforks and blazing torches.

Lawyers can only do so much. When a film named "Night of the Flesh Eaters" was changed, a typo left off the copyright notice, and the retitled Night of the Living Dead inadvertantly entered the Public Domain. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead) The moral? Don't put too much faith in lawyers.

If you've thoroughly ticked off your audience, to the point they're cheering the fall of your stock, don't expect that your IP will be respected in this brave new world. Assuming somebody magically put up a pirate server tomorrow, with fancy IP redirects and a server that shifted physical location every once in a while? Just what could NCSoft do about that? From South Korea? With their financial plots starting to dry up? Get serious, now.

By contrast, John Delancey just put up a documentary, and specifically asked the audience not to pirate it. It seems to be working so far, because he enjoys the goodwill of his audience. If you have established a rapport with your audience, a relationship, if the creator of a work you appreciate is part of your "monkeysphere," respect and affection is the most secure copyright of all!

'Cause the loser now will be later to win, The times, they are a'changin'!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 05:01:35 AM by Colette »

srmalloy

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 450
Re: An Idea
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2013, 11:52:34 AM »
I don't recall the details, as it's been some years, but I remember a court case where the judge ruled that reverse engineering was legal to restore  functionality to software whose use was controlled by an external piece of hardware that had become nonfunctional and which the software publisher no longer supported. I will concede that using that ruling to justify reverse-engineering a game server is a bit of a stretch, since the ruling was about dongles,, not servers, but it does provide a precedent for invalidating a prohibition on reverse the engineering in an EULA.

Ironwolf

  • Stubborn as a
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,503
Re: An Idea
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 03:14:53 PM »
You can reverse engineer.

You just can't reverse engineer to publish the same software. You can make changes to it and publish it even using the original developers to take you to alpha state - the finished program has to be original.

So you could redo the game tweaking some graphics and call that huge metal headbanger a Freakshop and be completely legal.
Carnies of Darkness
Tsumo
Nazi Bastages

and other such fun names that the PLAYERS used to call the mobs would be quite acceptable.

TonyV

  • Titan Staff
  • Elite Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,175
    • Paragon Wiki
Re: An Idea
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2013, 04:17:04 PM »
Jeez, and I forgot Paragon Wiki, which copied over entire parts of the dialogue.

They changed this WAY later, but at the time the Paragon Wiki was created and the vast majority of its content written, there was a clause in the Terms of Service that specifically allowed fan web sites to use assets from the game for non-commercial purposes.  I think that only changed as recently as the launch of City of Heroes: Freedom, when they removed that clause.

...

Ah, here we go.  Thank you, Wayback Machine!

Quote
Members are permitted to make use of Game Content in noncommercial contexts, including in connection with the creation of noncommercial fan fiction and fan sites and using game audio and video for creating noncommercial media.

It was changed, but given how much people had already invested in fan sites and whatnot, we all pretty much assumed that the new Terms of Service in which such sites weren't explicitly allowed would never actually be enforced to construe that fan sites aren't allowed.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 04:22:27 PM by TonyV »

Colette

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 466
Re: An Idea
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 11:12:44 PM »
So Tony, could you pass that idea of mine to our fine team of hackers 'n crackers? A little guide to tailoring the graphics files wouldn't go amiss, I'm sure.