Author Topic: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect  (Read 2656 times)

Lightslinger

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Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« on: January 31, 2013, 05:22:59 PM »
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/31/ask-massively-developers-players-and-respect/

Quote
Welcome back to Ask Massively We're pleased you could join us on the deck of the Massively yacht for today's edition. You should really try a mojito. It's the best.

In between drinks today, we're talking about respect -- the earned kind, not the given kind. Don't worry; I'm not talking about respect you have for us or even for each other. (We all know that's non-existent.) I'm talking about the respect game studios have (and don't have) for MMO gamers in general.

The question that prompted this discussion came in to our tips line from a reader named Ben:
 I would like to see an article on how companies treat players and live up to their promises. I am mainly referring to Darkfall here because more than anything, I want to play the game, but I find the company hugely disrespectful -- always delaying launch at the last minute when it is set to go live, with little or no warning about a delay, when it should be quite apparent ahead of time whether or not the team can deliver.

On the 12th [of December], the team waited until after the deadline to announce that not only was Darkfall: Unholy Wars not launching but that it was being pushed back to possibly February and going into paid beta instead. [After that beta was supposed to start], North American players could not even patch the client through the lobby. I am extremely dissatisfied, but what can we do as players to make gaming companies live up to their own goals? It simply doesnt seem plausible to boycott games that are more like addictions.
And yet that's what you'd do for any other addiction, right? You'd stop. It might be hard -- extremely hard -- but the only way to cut yourself loose is to cut yourself loose.

Never understimate the efficacy of boycotts. Consider Star Wars Galaxies' NGE or EVE Online's monoclegate. Enough players abandoned ship after those two fiascos that SOE and CCP eventually turned those ships around, issuing apologies and regrets and alterations.

The point is, mass movements like these have a financial impact, and that's where you have to hit developers who routinely fail to deliver on promises: in the purse.

The nice part about boycotting in 2013 as opposed to 15 years ago when the first MMOs launched is that our options are nearly unlimited now. If you were playing Ultima Online in 1997 and were fed up with the constant lag and disconnections, you could quit, sure, but there were no other MMOs to play, which is why we all kept right on playing. Now? Hundreds of massively multiplayer online titles exist, several of them sure to be fairly similar to your favorite haunt. There's always something else to play while your pet game gets its act together. And if it never gets its act together, well, then you had fun in the meantime and get to walk away with a clean conscience since you didn't waste your money on something that ticked you off.

You'd think that threat would always loom over a developer, but nope; some developers just can't or won't get it. Can't vs. won't depends on the size of the studio, and that matters too. Me, I'd look at an indie title with a small dev team (like Darkfall) and cut it way more slack than a big-budget MMO with what ought to be a dream-team dev house (like Star Wars: The Old Republic). Honestly, do you really think Aventurine means to be disrespectful when it institutes delays without much notice?

It seems to me that indie devs probably love and appreciate their playerbases more than larger studios; even if they miss launch dates, don't fix bugs, and bungle community relations, they're doing so not out of malice but out of absentmindedness. I assume the few devs toiling away on Darkfall are overworked and overextended and probably way more optimistic about hitting goals than they should be, but that doesn't mean they don't hold their playerbase in high regard. You're paying for the food on their table, after all.

Admittedly, what I'm advocating here is a way to get developers to respect your money, not to respect you. If personal respect is what you crave, then pay it forward. Don't behave like the usual forum denizens who scream and flame and carry on about their #firstworldproblem MMO setback; do what you did, which is calmly and rationally think and write. Express your opinions and give fair feedback without being a giant, unreasonable turd. Developers do read and are influenced by players who skip the abuse and show they genuinely care.

But if nothing changes -- if you think neither your money nor your presence is being valued -- then you should take both of them away and move on to a game where they are. To do otherwise sends exactly the wrong message to developers who desperately need to learn that lesson.

Great article and a good place to go comment and talk about our recent experience with NCsoft and their "respect" for players. Here's my comment:
LightslingerCoH 2 minutes ago
The biggest example of this in recent history is the closing of City of Heroes. CoH players understand NCsoft may be refocusing on other things, and that while CoH was making a profit maybe it wasn't big enough for NCsoft, but it is clear little to no effort was made to let CoH live on. Instead of finding a buyer NCsoft made sure CoH will stay dead, along with their other killed off games like Exteel, Dungeon Runners, Tabula Rasa, and Auto Assault.

MMOs are not like single player games, when a developer/publisher pulls the plug the players lose EVERYTHING. NCsoft wantonly closing and shelving multiple IPs sets a bad example for the entire industry. What if players start realizing that their investment can be gone in an instant? Suddenly that F2P cash shop doesn't look so great.

MMO Developers owe it to their communities who invest thousands of hours and a LOT of money into their characters to at least make an attempt to let their games live on in some way.

pewlagon

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 06:19:39 PM »
Exactly, and that is why I don't understand people who get up in arms about me not trusting NcSoft anymore. They did not show the player base any respect and continue to shun us. As we look deeper and deeper at that company it is becoming abundantly clear they have little to no clue how to perform business day to day let alone communicate with their player base.

Colette

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 06:27:21 PM »
Thanks. Posted my reply.

JaguarX

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 07:11:12 PM »
The OP quoted section sounds like something I said not too long ago.


But players of MMO should realize, as it stands, that the "investment" can be gone at an instant and that is what should be changed in the industry. While other games have closed, and some in the future may close, it's easy to pass off those other games closings as "oh the game wasnt profitable anyways" or "oh, there wasnt that many players" "that game sucked anyways" and etc. but still that was someone's "investment" going down the tube. It's easier to see and feel when it actually happens personally and realize what people of those other killed games felt and it now it's about time for it to stop because it can be anybody's community, any game, any time, and even in game that we personally dont like, dont care for, or dont know about, those are people just liek us that invested time and money into their respective game. It has to stop and we have to use the power that we have to reward those companies that respect their customers  and stop rewarding those, especially those with a long history like NCSoft, with time and money or else, why else would they change their ways? I have realized that just because a game company closes another game that I dont play it doesnt mean the game I play is safe from the same treatement, as have been recently shown.

But cant change the past but we can control the future.

FatherXmas

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 09:28:46 PM »
I think NCsoft simply didn't understand that after eight years, the majority of the players in CoH were THE HARD CORE.

We weren't put off (enough to leave) by mitten hands. inconsistent resolution textures, rooting or radically different rules for powers in PvP.  We liked the new content we were getting and were excited by what was coming.  We were here for the long haul.  We would have stayed for 10 years, 15 years as long as the servers were up, feeding them $12-15 a month.

They also didn't understand that we weren't a bunch of teenager or young 20 somethings with no talent or gumption to not take the closing lying down.  For whatever reason they had for not including Paragon and CoH in their future plans for the west, we will likely never know, but we weren't going to simply let the game go without kicking and screaming and making a scene all the way to the end and beyond.
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Ironwolf

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 09:59:22 PM »
MMO games should have up front a plan for a maintenance mode and game closing WHEN IT STARTS.

Then you as a player that has invested over the years far more than the $60 a box copy costs, know what is intended when the game is no longer making cash.

Mister Bison

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 11:22:10 PM »
I think NCsoft simply didn't understand that after eight years, the majority of the players in CoH were THE HARD CORE.

We weren't put off (enough to leave) by mitten hands. inconsistent resolution textures, rooting or radically different rules for powers in PvP.  We liked the new content we were getting and were excited by what was coming.  We were here for the long haul.  We would have stayed for 10 years, 15 years as long as the servers were up, feeding them $12-15 a month.

They also didn't understand that we weren't a bunch of teenager or young 20 somethings with no talent or gumption to not take the closing lying down anymore.  For whatever reason they had for not including Paragon and CoH in their future plans for the west, we will likely never know, but we weren't going to simply let the game go without kicking and screaming and making a scene all the way to the end and beyond.
Added a word for emphasis.

I personnally started playing as as a back-less youngster. But what do you expect of the child you grow up fighting his way against villains and foes ? I was in CoV, not CoH, so it's maybe not as altruistic as everybody else, but I will nonetheless fight back for what I want if someone wants to deny it to me.
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TargetOne

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2013, 01:30:44 AM »
MMO games should have up front a plan for a maintenance mode and game closing WHEN IT STARTS.

This.

To add to the discussion, I'll say that MMO operators need to understand this: Anyone can build a "city" with streets, houses, storefronts, skyscrapers, and so on. But it takes PEOPLE to build a community within that city, and people don't like it when their communities are destroyed. In fact, people will do their damnedest to keep their community intact in the face of disaster. Just look at all the small towns that get practically wiped out every year by tornadoes, hurricanes, fires, or floods. Nobody EVER abandons those towns altogether, they REBUILD, to the effect that in as little as a few months, life starts to return to some semblance of normalcy.

Contrast this with the closure of an MMO... when it's gone, it's gone. People are kicked out, and have no choice but to move elsewhere (assuming they even stay active in the MMO scene). The community IS destroyed, for the most part, with only the most die-hard members trying to remain in touch with each other (witness the Titan Network forums!).

The really big difference, though, between the destruction of a physical city and the shutdown of an MMO is that the former is [usually] an act of God, while the latter is a conscious choice on the part of some corporate bigwig. With the former, there isn't really anyone to blame... not so with the latter. Is it any wonder that said bigwig and his company can draw such ire from the MMO's fanbase? Were they really just expecting the players to roll over and die quietly?

Frankly, anyone looking to release an MMO had better be prepared to inform the players "up-front" about the developer/publisher's really long-term plans for the game, including their plans for BOTH success and failure. Where will the game be five years from now? Ten years? Twenty? Or even longer? Will the game continue to run even if the company is sold or "changes corporate focus"? Under exactly what circumstances would it be shut down? Will there be any attempt to sell the game? Or maybe release it to the public domain?

After so many botched shutdowns in recent years, MMO gamers ought to be highly suspicious of any developer/publisher who refuses to divulge, or even seriously discuss, such details in advance.

I'm sure the people who founded cities like Rome or Paris or New York figured they had to be prepared to be in it for the long haul. Just like the founders of companies like Electronic Arts or Blizzard or (dare I say it) NCSoft hoped that their efforts would result in an entity that would live on into the indefinite future, if not forever. So why on God's green Earth are they so unwilling to provide the same level of commitment to their individual products?

ukaserex

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2013, 02:02:02 AM »
Well. From a business perspective, I'd have a hard time establishing a shut down procedure. It's kind of like admitting failure before you even started. Realistically, I suppose one could just assume that sooner or later, all things must come to an end. However, for whatever the reason, my feeble mind remembers that every business decision is made with the idea that the concern (the business) will live on infinitely.

Still, it's not a bad idea. I wonder if Missing Worlds Media/The Phoenix Project will implement such a plan.
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Ironwolf

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2013, 02:14:11 AM »
You see to me it isn't admitting defeat - it is facing reality.

Games come and they go - but some players want to remain playing as they have invested THOUSANDS of hours into the game. To say to the players - when the time comes that we no longer invest money to develop the game - we will sell the game out for the highest bidder with all IP and allow it to be sold without taking the servers down if possible.

If we can't get a buyer we will post the code for the server in the wild after 12 months of game closure.

This would be as fair and kind as you could ask for.

Knightslayer

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2013, 12:50:14 PM »
Added a word for emphasis.

I personnally started playing as as a back-less youngster. But what do you expect of the child you grow up fighting his way against villains and foes ? I was in CoV, not CoH, so it's maybe not as altruistic as everybody else, but I will nonetheless fight back for what I want if someone wants to deny it to me.
Hey, at least you're used to the big guys constantly trying to walk all over you, and putting them in their place!
Now go to the future, beat up the NCSoft CEO there and bring back his hat to throw at the feet of today's NCSoft CEO!  8)

CG

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Re: Massively Article - Developers and Players Respect
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2013, 02:49:08 PM »
Still, it's not a bad idea. I wonder if Missing Worlds Media/The Phoenix Project will implement such a plan.
It's one of the first things I asked when I joined the MWM forums.  It's on their radar, but not decided yet AFAIK.