Update: Lining Up Next Target

[Victoria Victrix]

We will actually have about 2 1/2 weeks before we need you Merry Pranksters to actually do anything.  The "do anything" will be similar to the Disney action: letters and cards.

We are waiting this long because my (Mercedes) husband has a very good friend who is high up in Google Ventures.  To catch the rest of you up, Darren just went on vacation to Panama and, as with many others at Google, will not be back for a couple of weeks.  But we did contact him and he is thinking about the situation and is going to go turn over rocks at Google Play for us.  We might get a positive response from Google Play, at which point Team Wildcard will have revised the pitch package to make it specific for Google (YES we are going to mention adding apps like Auction House monitoring and in-game chat) and we will send it to Google Play.

We may not get a positive response from Google Play.  But this is what my husband has to say.

My feeling on Google is that they will not be the solution but they will lead to the solution. That comes in part from the realization a wise man had about FedEx: they are not a package delivery company, they are a logistics company that delivers packages. Similarly, Google is built inside and out as a problem solver company that executes its tasks by connecting everything. For example Google Labs innovates software for cheap-and-free, but that gets monetized when they specialize it to specific companies and ventures. So I feel like Google's approach will not be "Let's buy your game," it will be "Let's find who will buy your game so we get a cut.Now, a good thing about Darren is that not only is he deep in Google culture he is also in authority. That means that if we can get him to put out the call INTERNALLY at Google that CoH is looking for a home, the Google employees that played CoH will have a rally point.  Again these are big Ifs but they have good stakes despite long odds.

Who knows, we may hear from Disney by then.  We may not, but if Disney gets word that Google is involved, they may decide to get interested. 

Or they may not, we pursue the Google option to whatever the end of that is, then we make our move from there.

So that's the plan.

[Rigo42]

Thank you for the update. Glad there are intelligent people on this case.

[Ceremonius]

Hmm....some might be a good thing to get google involved.
"Getting their cut" doesn't really mean they have to see the allmighty $$$. It also could mean ingame advertisement (wich I don't mind as long as it is in form of NO popup, just a poster on a wall or something) and they would get free apps for their store by the community.
Also it could mean that CoH might get an ingame sort of browser wich directly leads to google.com, from where you can start surfing, checking your mails and so on.

The last one would be a great addition to our game.

Imagine: While you are ingame you have an idea of a build. And by using a web based mids you can check it on the fly. Same goes to apps, while you are not at home .

Sounds good to me - where do I sign?

[TonyV]

<--- HUGE Google fanboy.  When I went to the last player summit, one of our CoH members who is a Googler was kind enough to invite me to the campus there in Mountain View and have dinner.  It was, needless to say, awesome.  I actually made pilgrimages to several historical places (HP garage, Apple's campus, the old Atari headquarters, etc.), but other than the Paragon Studios-hosted festivities, it was the height of my visit.  I have a Galaxy Nexus phone, a Nexus 7 tablet, a first-gen Xoom tablet, and a crapton of swag that I bought from their company store.  If Google can help our cause, I will gladly do whatever I can to support that effort!

Here I am at Google.  Yes, he deliberately lined up the photo so that it looks like the dinosaur is eating my head.  I even took a picture of my visitor badge (inset, bottom right corner) because to me, even that was cool. 

[OzonePrime]

Ready!

[Servantes]

Looking it at a business stand point, There is quite a bit of PR to gain if Google managed to get the game,  it would be a giant advertisement point to anyone that they still see value in this older MMO, the old adage newer isn't always better, also the fact it has 8 years of content, just running the game would a Asset.

 Adding apps to the game would be a good way to update CoH, I know a few who wouldn't like it at first but to be honest in that area they would rather have the option, they could add pretty much anything they wanted.

Detracting from above, they would be taking a game away from NCSoft who clearly don't deserve the game.

[HEATSTROKE]

I honestly think Google might be a better answer than Disney. Id pay a few bucks to have Mids on my phone/tablet or to be able to work Wentworths from my phone YES !!!

[Ironwolf]

Look let's not just take this by sitting and waiting - is there anyone who could convert Mids to a phone app in advance?

Also so maybe the costume creator?

Then you could go to Google and say the game is waiting and here are things you could use immediately!

[Servantes]

Look let's not just take this by sitting and waiting - is there anyone who could convert Mids to a phone app in advance?

Also so maybe the costume creator?

Then you could go to Google and say the game is waiting and here are things you could use immediately!

Having Mids as a phone App would be amazing, costume creator would be awesome as well, but might be a bit hard to fit giving how many costume pieces their are, but if the textures were lowered enough I could see it being possible, would be a nice to see it have a import option as well.

[Ironwolf]

I have never worked on programming a phone app but you know what I will see what I can do

I will download xCode tonight and start learning.

[Ceremonius]

I have never worked on programming a phone app but you know what I will see what I can do

I will download xCode tonight and start learning.

Depends on the OS you are developing for.
Android is far more easy due open source and GNU GPL.
When it comes to iOS...well dunno. Never wanted that closed source

[TonyV]

<sidetrack>

Several years ago, I bought a MacBook Pro, downloaded Xcode, and intended to write some widgets related to City of Heroes (among a few other little iOS app ideas I had in mind). Once I got everything set up, I started learning Objective C and details of how to program for the iOS GUI. I got knee-deep into it and was really close to releasing something, so I sent my $99 to Apple to join their developer program so that I could actually publish stuff.

They e-mailed me back and said that they needed a copy of some official ID to prove that I am who I say I am.  "That's weird," I thought.  What difference does it make?  It's not like Apple has to fill out tax forms for me or anything.  And when I was signing up, it never told me that I'd have to provide any identification, but still, whatever.  So I made a copy of my driver license and snail mailed it to them the next day.  A few days later, I got another e-mail from them saying that they required a notarized copy of my identification.  Again, nothing in what I signed up for or in the first e-mail said this.

This was at the same time that Apple was clamping down on a lot of developers.  Daily, I read stories on Slashdot about people whose apps had been pending approval for weeks or months.  Also, some high-profile apps had either been denied or pulled, including Google Voice, a Commodore 64 emulator, and it was around the same time also that Apple declared that all apps had to be developed in Objective C, screwing over Adobe and Mono in the process.

So after I got the second e-mail, I thought long and hard about it.  Do I really want to subject myself to the walled garden that is Apple?  In answer to that question, I sent them back a reply asking for my $99 fee back, along with telling them that as a developer, I wasn't going to put up with these hoops.  If I had this much trouble just to push out a couple of widget apps for free to my friends, I was inclined to believe the other developers who were complaining about Apple's draconian approval process, and I didn't want any part of it.  A couple of months later, I sold my MacBook Pro, and I haven't looked back.

I might work on some Android apps, but if anyone else wants stuff developed for iOS, they're going to have to find someone else to do it, someone who has more patience for those types of shenanigans than I have.

Oh, and just for the record, Objective C is hideous.

</sidetrack>

So what were we talking about?  Oh right, Google!  Let's do that!

[Ironwolf]

Android will be the thing then

I will see what it's like.

[TonyV]

Well, I don't want to discourage you; if you have a Mac and want to give it a go, have at it.  I was just relating my story in case anyone starts asking me to develop an iOS application.  Not gonna happen, and I don't want to set an expectation that Titan will be doing anything with it, unless an iOS developer comes along and really wants to join the team to develop such apps.

Also, if you're going to develop iOS apps, I'd highly suggest that you go through the developer approval process or get someone else who already has to agree to publish your apps before spending any non-trivial amount of time and/or money on the prospect.  Also, I'd highly recommend reading up on Objective C to get a feel for how easy (or hard) it is to grok, maybe looking at some sample apps to get a feel for the language's syntax.  It's a very different beast from the standard C++/C#/Java class of languages.  It's not as far out there as something like LISP, but still, at least know what you're getting into.

[Ironwolf]

I like most every geek has done some C++ stuff and some old Amiga OS gaming stuff back in the day. But not much else for a long time so it will be fun to tinker again if nothing else.

[Ceremonius]

Wait, wait, wait, Tony! Did I got it right?
You paid them just to be allowed to have the confirmation that you can send them an app/widget that might not get in the store if they disapprove it?

What if you allowed to release something? Lemme guess - they still get a share...

Sounds totaly awful to me :O

[Quinch]

So after I got the second e-mail, I thought long and hard about it.  Do I really want to subject myself to the walled garden that is Apple?

When I look at Apple, I see less of a walled garden, and more of a gilded cage, with a price to match. Just a brief derail.

[Victoria Victrix]

I would absolutely love it if people would suggest apps.  I know nothing about apps.  I *think* Google would probably prefer that apps were for Android since there doesn't seem to be much love between them and Apple.  Apps seem the perfect way to further monetize CoH without being intrusive, and while actually being helpful.

[Surelle]

I would absolutely love it if people would suggest apps.  I know nothing about apps.  I *think* Google would probably prefer that apps were for Android since there doesn't seem to be much love between them and Apple.  Apps seem the perfect way to further monetize CoH without being intrusive, and while actually being helpful.

This is actually a terrific idea!  And yes, I'd think Google and Apple would be arch-enemies by this point, being that Google made Android.

[Wyrm]

So, no shooting me, but what about "early adopter" costume pieces, introduced through the app and being app-exclusive micro-transaction items for 2 months before becoming available for purchase through other channels?

I know, I know...  "This way lies madness..."  But if we are trying to interest them, pointing out ways to leverage technology into revenue streams seems appropriate.

[blackjak]

This is actually a terrific idea!  And yes, I'd think Google and Apple would be arch-enemies by this point, being that Google made Android.

This makes me (hopefully needlessly) depressed. No OSX = no COH for me if it goes down like that. I have an Android phone, though....

[Victoria Victrix]

This makes me (hopefully needlessly) depressed. No OSX = no COH for me if it goes down like that. I have an Android phone, though....

Needlessly I should think.  I very much doubt Google would shoot itself in the foot by neglecting to support CoH for OSx.  We're just talking about phone apps.

[TonyV]

Well, Google wouldn't really care so much about monetizing apps.  Getting into the gaming market would be quite a departure for Google.  To my knowledge, they haven't developed any first-party games for Android devices.  Most likely what they would do is what I kinda sorta wished that Paragon Studios had done a long time ago--provide hooks into their back-end system, and API that would allow third parties to develop apps.  The third parties release their apps on the Google Play store, and Google gets a cut.  Third parties can also include Google ads in their apps, in which case Google would again get a cut.

To be honest, I think that Google is a bit of a stretch because again, to my knowledge, Google has never expressed any desire to be in a gaming market.  Also, to my knowledge, Google has very rarely done something like maintain third-party studios to do their work for them; if this were to happen, they almost certainly would bring all development in-house.  Microsoft is with the Xbox and all, but Google has always focused on expanding the reach of their advertising and data mining business.  If this were to be successful for Google, I think that's where any pitch for them would have to be targeted.

One thing I could easily see Google being interested in is developing a competitor to GuildPortal that is integrated into their existing services such as Gmail, Google Talk, YouTube, etc.  I'm not sure they'd be interested in acquiring the IP for a game to do so; they're more likely work with existing publisher and/or studios to develop that kind of functionality, but it might be worth a shot pitching City of Heroes as an opportunity to move into that space.

One really interesting possibility is that Google has been experimenting a lot lately with pushing the envelope in browser technology, including integrating 3D APIs directly into the browser.  This tech is very new, but has tantalizing possibilities in that anything developed for that platform would run pretty much anywhere, including Windows, MacOS, Chromebooks, etc., without so much as modifying one line or code or recompiling anything.  The same exact code would literally run on any platform and would have identical functionality everywhere.  Could Chrome be a viable platform as a client?  If so, I could imagine CoH being a flagship product to demonstrate the capabilities of Chrome as a development platform, which could be used in pitching the idea.

[Lightslinger]

Is there any movement towards approaching small to medium sized gaming developers/publishers yet?

I fully support these "wildcard" companies like Disney or Google in that, while they don't make sense, hey if they got CoH back it doesn't matter.

However, I think it would be prudent to at least on the side, be approaching some studios that actually deal in MMOs, specifically studios running older MMOs, collections of different MMOs and the ultimate, a studio interested in cultivating older/ previously shut down MMOs.

I don't know a lot about the gaming industry so I can't name those studios off-hand. The Save CoH movement is time limited in that the longer it stays shut down the more the community will dwindle. The more momentum that is lost per each "pitch" to Disney, then to Google, etc etc could make a pitch to a company on down the line harder.

I'm all for these big name hail marys but lets start some smaller, side endeavors to get something going.

[Quinch]

Like it's been mentioned before, the angle with Google isn't that the company itself takes over the game. Google's forte tends to be facilitation - so while it's unlikely that Google itself would do anything the game, there's a pretty good case that Google would be interested in ways to profit by arranging for things to be done with the game by a third party.

[Arctic Force.]

To be honest, I think that Google is a bit of a stretch because again, to my knowledge, Google has never expressed any desire to be in a gaming market.  Also, to my knowledge, Google has very rarely done something like maintain third-party studios to do their work for them.

Actually Google (NianticLabs@Google) is behind an Android based MMOG called Ingress it is currently in Beta. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingress_(game)

So it is feasible that Google could be interested in another MMO.

[FaelenLou]

Arctic Force's link wasn't fully functional. For the sake of convenience:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingress_%28game%29

Also, returning to Apple v. Google, they're both companies and act in a method to generate profit. Consider their shared attempt to purchase Kodak patents.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-07/apple-joins-google-in-500-million-plus-bid-for-kodak-patents

[Tannim222]

Don't forget there's the possibility to run ads within the CoH game. Sure, the devs wanted to stick to ads that kind of worked for the game world, but the hook to Google could be to have google-run ads pop up in various billboards within the game. Now if there were the ability to click-through those ads as well, then you have something I don't think has been done in gaming as of yet, and could be something of an incentive for Google to look into as that's right up their alley so to speak.

[OzonePrime]

You guys are working so hard and have come up with a fantastic gameplan! Not about to second guess anything you are doing. From what I've read and seen, the fate of our game is in trustworthy, beyond capable, hands. I trust their motives and actions completely. I will continue to do my small part in mailing, posting, and basically annoying everyone with my Save City of Heroes rant. Seriously, everyone I know gets daily updates whether they want them or not.

[EbonHawk]

This is all sounding very positive and it's great to see the commitment that's still going strong

On the iOS App front, I have a work associate who has already jumped through the App Store registration hoops and got an App up on the Apple App Store (shameless plug... for anybody who's into a bit of foraging, check out his App Berry Hunters). I'm sure he could be persuaded (with a beer or two, which I'd happily provide) to distribute iOS apps if somebody else had coded them but didn't want to go through the Dev registration process (and fee paying).

Just putting it out there.

[pewlagon]

Did anyone think about approaching Activision. The PR coup would be grand. They would then have both 8 year games at their disposal and would be able to hype as much. Sad thing, though, they recently released a press statement that new IPs are the future not rehash. They may see a relaunch more viable than a contiuation of the current game.

[Void Huntress]

Did anyone think about approaching Activision. The PR coup would be grand. They would then have both 8 year games at their disposal and would be able to hype as much. Sad thing, though, they recently released a press statement that new IPs are the future not rehash. They may see a relaunch more viable than a contiuation of the current game.

That would be terrible, because then my principles would require me to not play City.

Activision/Blizzard is known to be very user-hostile, including publicized homophobia incidents, the 'real name' fiascos, and other issues.

[Victoria Victrix]

Darren has gotten back to me early with not-negative results.

Evidently he has tracked down a guy named "John" who knows another guy named "John" who we need to talk to.  And even if the second "John" turns out not to be interested, there is a third "John" that the second "John" knows who may well be.

I am not making this up, and neither is he.  All three guys are named "John."

RL needs a "That name is reserved.  Would you consider 'Djohn'?"

[Quinch]

John, John., and xJohnx?

[Triplash]

Well that's a good sign VV. Or I guess more to the point, it's not a bad sign. At least he thinks enough of the concept that he's willing to put some time into it without further prompting. That's a decent first step, I'll take it.

But about this part...

I am not making this up, and neither is he.  All three guys are named "John."

RL needs a "That name is reserved.  Would you consider 'Djohn'?"

I think they should just be grateful the GMs don't John-Eric them.



<.<
>.>

... What?

[dwturducken]

You sure you're spelling it right?

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/J%27onn_J%27onzz_%28New_Earth%29

[Lucretia MacEvil]

Darren has gotten back to me early with not-negative results.

Must... contain... impatience....

[OzonePrime]

Must... contain... impatience....
[/quote
Yes!]

[Knightslayer]

Darren has gotten back to me early with not-negative results.

Evidently he has tracked down a guy named "John" who knows another guy named "John" who we need to talk to.  And even if the second "John" turns out not to be interested, there is a third "John" that the second "John" knows who may well be.

I am not making this up, and neither is he.  All three guys are named "John."

RL needs a "That name is reserved.  Would you consider 'Djohn'?"

Thanks for being the Herald of good news, VV!

[Joshex]

can we hold off on this a little while? at least until disney gives us a response?

[Lily Barclay]

can we hold off on this a little while? at least until disney gives us a response?

Disney won't respond to us, even if they are interested.

[Ironwolf]

I agree - if Disney is interested they will talk to NCSoft and we will never know until they buy the game and announce it.

If they choose not to buy the game - it will likely never get past a VP who is given the package and he hands it to his team who look at it and decide if it's viable. They may or may not bite. It would be better to find a single investor who is interested in the property. It may be a person who wants American property and this lets him expand and invest regardless of actual profit. Some people just want a foothold in an American market - similar to NCSoft.

NCSoft tried to gain a little legitimacy in our market and failed miserably. Another investor from an oil rich area or other non-IT background may see this as a way to spend $7-10 million and get a nice tax write-off and maybe recoup the purchase over 3-4 years. If I hit the Lottery and bought the game I would consider it a $10-12 million investment over 4 years. You have to figure what can I get back for my money?

What rate of return?

I would say you could host the game and man a studio for new content for $3 million a year. Drop another $1 million a year for advertising and you could return likely costs + $2 million first year. How much after that for tying up $10 million? Got to be realistic here.

[houtex]

Could not agree more with that.  Realistic expectations for the returns are a problem that cannot be avoided here.  Nobody will spend a dime if there's not a reasonable expectation for more than just break even or good feels(tm) about their doing it.

This is where Steam or a service such as that is a better idea, IMO, than Disney, but... there are a lot of good eggs around here. I am confident that their passion and saavy will sway potential investors into doing this...

Now we just got to get NCSoft to be despera... I mean, business oriented enough to actually, you know, sell the game.

---

For my part, if I were individually freakin' rich, I have mapped out how I'd save the game forever... frozen in it's I-23 state (NO beta... can't support that) and wholly owned by ME.  Well, a trust anyway.  I would buy the game for a non-ridiculous amount, find a place, buy an OC3 or 12 or 24 or whatever makes sense, and get it all up and running.  Pay a couple of people who can hack the client to fix the IPs/Server names.  Get it running client side.  Then maybe after that's working, get I-24 fixed up... and all that jazz thereafter.

And it would never, ever, stop working.  Because I'd be individually freakin' rich and would do that for me.  You guys would be a side product of win.

You find that investor, you're golden... again, as long as NCSoft says "ok."  Otherwise... The Phrase.  That horrible Phrase...

/Go Team Wildcard!  I believe!

[Jade77]

Anyone know of any bored arab's with money to toss around indiscrimanently?  lol

[Blue Pulsar]

RL needs a "That name is reserved.  Would you consider 'Djohn'?"

I kinda thought of 'Dijon' mustard.

[Osborn]

<sidetrack>

Several years ago, I bought a MacBook Pro, downloaded Xcode, and intended to write some widgets related to City of Heroes (among a few other little iOS app ideas I had in mind). Once I got everything set up, I started learning Objective C and details of how to program for the iOS GUI. I got knee-deep into it and was really close to releasing something, so I sent my $99 to Apple to join their developer program so that I could actually publish stuff.

They e-mailed me back and said that they needed a copy of some official ID to prove that I am who I say I am.  "That's weird," I thought.  What difference does it make?  It's not like Apple has to fill out tax forms for me or anything.  And when I was signing up, it never told me that I'd have to provide any identification, but still, whatever.  So I made a copy of my driver license and snail mailed it to them the next day.  A few days later, I got another e-mail from them saying that they required a notarized copy of my identification.  Again, nothing in what I signed up for or in the first e-mail said this.

This was at the same time that Apple was clamping down on a lot of developers.  Daily, I read stories on Slashdot about people whose apps had been pending approval for weeks or months.  Also, some high-profile apps had either been denied or pulled, including Google Voice, a Commodore 64 emulator, and it was around the same time also that Apple declared that all apps had to be developed in Objective C, screwing over Adobe and Mono in the process.

So after I got the second e-mail, I thought long and hard about it.  Do I really want to subject myself to the walled garden that is Apple?  In answer to that question, I sent them back a reply asking for my $99 fee back, along with telling them that as a developer, I wasn't going to put up with these hoops.  If I had this much trouble just to push out a couple of widget apps for free to my friends, I was inclined to believe the other developers who were complaining about Apple's draconian approval process, and I didn't want any part of it.  A couple of months later, I sold my MacBook Pro, and I haven't looked back.

I might work on some Android apps, but if anyone else wants stuff developed for iOS, they're going to have to find someone else to do it, someone who has more patience for those types of shenanigans than I have.

Oh, and just for the record, Objective C is hideous.

</sidetrack>

So what were we talking about?  Oh right, Google!  Let's do that!

I think what mostly turned me off of their app store (though in the fairness of full disclosure I had an icy relationship with Apple to begin with. Me and their products haven't gotten along since the early 2000's), was them stating that in their development guidelines that if you want a game that tackles anything remotely adult, like religion, you should give up and write a book, because parents are too lazy to set up parental control but also too lazy to monitor what their kids buy, which was basically flash back to the 1980's era Nintendo guidelines.

So I can't blame you for not jumping through legal hoops that are, frankly, intrusive, just so you can develop an app for free.