Author Topic: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head  (Read 14404 times)

Knightslayer

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 11:05:42 AM »
Give me a break. You can't die from video game withdrawal, it's not heroin. Just because you like to do something and you spend a lot of time and/or money on it doesn't mean that it's automatically bad for you. Some people just love to victimize themselves and point fingers at whatever they can. This sort of trash psychology enables them to avoid taking responsibility for the choices they make. If anyone is out of line here it's the garbage phd opportunists that provide vehicles for this kind of thought process.
You should tell this to the kid that died a few years ago because he kept playing WoW non-stop for several days on nothing but energy drinks. :P
And there are more crazy cases like that out there.
Is it the game's fault? Nope, but some people definitely DO get addicted past the point that is healthy for them.

sl701

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 11:17:45 AM »
Well said, Zolgar.

Globetrotter

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2012, 11:32:02 AM »
You should tell this to the kid that died a few years ago because he kept playing WoW non-stop for several days on nothing but energy drinks. :P
And there are more crazy cases like that out there.
Is it the game's fault? Nope, but some people definitely DO get addicted past the point that is healthy for them.

to add to this: Sleep deprivation is deadly in itself!
Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo.

Des_Tructive

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2012, 12:52:37 PM »
Just adding my two inf:

At least until mid 2011, the EU, and more specifically Germany, hadn't recognized "Video Game Addiction" as an addiction per se. The psychologists examining the phenomenon realized that in most situations, the addiction symptoms were results of the social surroundings, but not by physiological/psychological addiction. An attempt of an addiction clinic in Cologne was even closed, due to the fact that they realized it was a job for social workers, and not psychologists.

I have to restrict my statement slightly since I left the game industry last year and haven't stayed informed that well since then.
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JaguarX

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2012, 04:09:51 PM »
Some people argued vehemently when they released the Super Packs that that was essentially a Skinner box.  I disagree with that, too.  Yeah, I supposed you could waste a crapton of money on them, but realistically, 1) you could also get them for free, and 2) unlike something like gambling where you can never have enough money, if you bought enough Super Packs, eventually you got "done".  And unless you were really damn unlucky, getting "done" normally didn't take particularly long or THAT much money.  I bought one of the super mega packs of Super Packs once, and truth is, I think I had some of them left at the end just because eventually, I got tired of opening them.


yeah those Super packs. I knew someone personally that was THAT unlucky and they spent a significant amount and still was going and still didnt end up with anything good for them. It started to become a virtual one arm bandit for them because they figured it had to be their time to hit soon, a time that never came.


On a side note though, yeah people do need to take more responsibility for their actions. Anything can be addicting per se, but in the end it's the person's responsibility to be able to walk away. If they cant, but the next guy can, is the game considered addicting because of a few cases of people who is addicted? How about those that have been subscribed longer but is not addicted and where exactly is the line anyways? Some people are addicted to sugar, is it the sugar fault or candy maker's fault? Not many people blame them thus video games should not be blamed either. Even when it comes to heroine or worse habit to kick, nicotine, it's up to the person to beat the habit or not. As seen, many addicts, even after they admit they have a problem do nothing to actually try to "fix" the problem even when viable options/help are available. With video games it's easy, well from my view, (it may not be so easy for one with that particular problem but cant speak of that view because I never been there) is just unplug, walk away, find something else to do, spend time with family, phone a friend/family, take a break, go to the store, go for a walk in the park, go for a cruise whether by car or ship and etc.


By the time a problem is "officially" identified by the medical personally, by then it's too late anyways and the problem have grown significantly. At one point heroin addiction wasnt considered a problem but years later and after ocuntless people died or lives ruined, then it became a problem, same problem, just offical now, now there isnt enough resources to stem the problem when if it was done years ago instead of waiting for "official" reconiton, they could have developed a solution when it was a "small" problem. You'd think they would learn by now but it's like it's just a repeat over and over. Like they have the memory of a fish.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 04:20:32 PM by JaguarX »

Illusionss

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 04:31:20 PM »
If addiction is their intended goal, why is GuildWars2 so..... MAN. Trust me.

Eighty levels. And xp gain there is moderate at best, CoX leveled like lightning compared to this game. It would take me a year of serious solo time to hit level 80.

No Flight, no Super Speed, not even Hover. You jog slooooooooooooooooooooooooowly across huge maps. [Yes you can teleport, but its gonna cost ya]. A very expensive RMT shop.

CoX it aint, even taking Super Packs into consideration.  8)

Colette

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 04:48:04 PM »
I've posted these before, but it bears repeating.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-most-ominous-trends-in-video-games/

Yes, manipulative corporate game designers are trying to addict you. Yes, it works. The entire city of Las Vegas is a monument to the fact that the human psyche can be invaded and perverted by information viruses, just like a computer.

Yes, the individual must take some responsibility for their actions. If you know that a particular substance or action is addictive, you must refrain. As a personal example, a member of my immediate family suffered from alcoholism. I do not drink alcohol, at all, despite the social awkwardness that sometimes results. (I have no problem with those who are able to drink responsibly... genetics plays a major factor in chemical addiction.) Everyone knows heroin and nicotine are addictive, and the addict bears blame for starting. I refuse to try them, I also refuse to play gambling games. I think of this like a computer's "firewall." I only played CoH after close inspection.

Once hooked, the user's power of choice is steadily eroded. The chains are real, even if you can't see them. Though they probably learned a hard lesson, it's too late. The addict must succumb, or find the strength to fight the addiction every day of their lives, and will never be truly free again. They deserve our sympathy and assistance.

I love computer games. I do. They, like any medium, can tell us stories, educate us, teach us courage, even elevate us. I love games where the creators exerted their full powers to give their audience an edifying experience. My favorites are Civilization and Alpha Centauri, Roller Coaster Tycoon, Star Control II and X-Com, but there are many more. I'm glad these exist to enrich our culture and ourselves.

I fully experienced City of Heroes. City of Heroes, I can say, was not addictive. I played, took long breaks and let the subscription lapse, played something else, came back when I missed it. It told stories, it allowed me to experience my created characters' stories. The stories and the other player's characters affected my characters in unexpected ways.

Manipulative, deliberately addictive games exist. They are an entirely different creation. No large work of art can ever escape the fundamental nature of its creator(s). The games I mentioned were made by people who were passionate about contributing something of value, giving that value for the ticket price. These manipulative games (Farmville, Evony) are merely more elaborate versions of slot machines or roulette wheels, bereft of creativity or ideas,  designed to exploit rather than edify, because money is all their creators value.

Avoid them like you would avoid that first cigarette, or that first hit of heroin. Revile their creators as you would revile Big Tobacco or drug dealers. Let us hope for a more enlightened future that does not tolerate such things.

Do the current and upcoming games from NCSoft resemble Farmville and Evony?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 05:01:07 PM by Colette »

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 04:59:08 PM »
The fact that any business needs the stupidity of humanity in order to succeed, is just pathetic.

Segev

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 05:01:56 PM »
The fact that any business needs the stupidity of humanity in order to succeed, is just pathetic.
Politicians!

downix

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2012, 05:05:21 PM »
I wrote about this, and made the same link the OP made:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/12/09/who-needs-drugs-when-youve-got-farmville/

Feycat

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2012, 05:13:04 PM »
If addiction is their intended goal, why is GuildWars2 so..... MAN. Trust me.

Eighty levels. And xp gain there is moderate at best, CoX leveled like lightning compared to this game. It would take me a year of serious solo time to hit level 80.

No Flight, no Super Speed, not even Hover. You jog slooooooooooooooooooooooooowly across huge maps. [Yes you can teleport, but its gonna cost ya]. A very expensive RMT shop.

CoX it aint, even taking Super Packs into consideration.  8)

You might try slagging off the game a little less. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I've been playing since launch, I've got 2 80s so far, and I feel great playing. I've got 9 characters - because alt-itis doesn't stop with COH - and combat is fantastic, and fluid. I don't know that I could ever go back to another "stand still and push buttons" MMO combat system.

Teleportation is not that expensive. Running is NOT slow, quite the opposite - you run at the same rate that other MMOs give you mounts at.

In other words, if you want to try it - don't trust her. Try it, it's awesome. I've got a large guild, many of whom are ex-COHers, and all of whom love it, on Tarnished Coast, which is the "Virtue" of GW2 as far as being the unofficial RP server.

As for the article in the OP - it has nothing to do with NCsoft of NExon specifically - it is old news, and has to do with EVERY MMO out there. Including COH. The addictive formulas, the flashy rewards, the Skinner box, were all very much present in the game we all loved so much. They're in EVERY MMO. That's how they work.

Adrenalin

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2012, 05:14:36 PM »
You should tell this to the kid that died a few years ago because he kept playing WoW non-stop for several days on nothing but energy drinks. :P
And there are more crazy cases like that out there.
Is it the game's fault? Nope, but some people definitely DO get addicted past the point that is healthy for them.

There have been several cases of this, mostly in internet cafes in Asian countries but the U.S. hasn't been immune to it. Then there's the guy that killed someone else because he thought they stole his online stuff, or the couple that killed their toddler because he or she was taking time away from their gaming. Addiction and/or crazy comes in many different packages.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2012, 05:19:56 PM »
Apparently my addictions work differently from the Vegas folk. CoH doesn't fit the addicting game profile, but it's the only one that kept me up long enough that I started to get mentally ill from sleep deprivation.  8)

V-Mink

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2012, 05:23:35 PM »
I guess my main point is part of the whole bordering-on-unethical manipulation thing.  It's one thing where you pay for access/subscription--you do that with a magazine.  And it's one thing where you pay for a shiny--something that is not necessary for you to enjoy the game but is nice.  It's something else to be deliberately manipulated into a position where you find yourself herded into paying the equivalent of a used car payment every month just so you can "enjoy" a game.
There is a fascinating and creepy article about this same effect that was making the rounds a year or two ago:
http://insertcredit.com/2011/09/22/who-killed-videogames-a-ghost-story/

Illusionss

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2012, 06:01:10 PM »
You might try slagging off the game a little less. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I've been playing since launch, I've got 2 80s so far, and I feel great playing. I've got 9 characters - because alt-itis doesn't stop with COH - and combat is fantastic, and fluid. I don't know that I could ever go back to another "stand still and push buttons" MMO combat system.

Teleportation is not that expensive. Running is NOT slow, quite the opposite - you run at the same rate that other MMOs give you mounts at.

In other words, if you want to try it - don't trust her. Try it, it's awesome. I've got a large guild, many of whom are ex-COHers, and all of whom love it, on Tarnished Coast, which is the "Virtue" of GW2 as far as being the unofficial RP server.

Yes, because your in-game experiences are worth SO much more than mine.

Sorry, that is not your determination to make; my highest character is level 9, and yes she runs slowly. Quite slowly. Even level 1 unenhanced sprint in CoX was at least twice as fast. Forgive me for being disgusted with the speed of travel in GW2 compared to that of CoX. Not to mention, at least I could level up to Fly eventually - usually after one DFB run. In GW2, even a level 80 is never going to fly.

Never.

I could be level 5 in ten minutes in CoX. Not so in GW2. I am glad you have a huge guild supporting every thing you do and helping you out. Not everyone has that luxury.

GW2 is a pretty game, with good combat. I do not think NCStupid is going to let it live long due to lack of P2P - the money is going to start falling off sharply in a bit, is my guess. Hell, CoX had a THRIVING RMT shop and they STILL killed it. I'm not going to sink roots deeply into that game; after all, this IS the MMOKiller we're talking about.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2012, 06:07:15 PM »
I think NCsoft may give more of a crap about what happens to GW though. Guild Wars is the stereotypical 'favorite child' of the dysfunctional NCsoft family.

Colette

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2012, 06:10:51 PM »
"Yes, because your in-game experiences are worth SO much more than mine."

Whoa whoa! Let's not be sniping at each other now, hmm? NCSoft is target enough for all of us.

Segev

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2012, 06:19:11 PM »
<Russel> Heeere snipe... *clap, clap, clap* Come out little snipe... *clap, clap, clap*

JaguarX

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2012, 06:40:55 PM »
"Yes, because your in-game experiences are worth SO much more than mine."

Whoa whoa! Let's not be sniping at each other now, hmm? NCSoft is target enough for all of us.

well for some, old habits die hard. Some forget this isnt the last days of the COX forum here.


Try to remember, people. Every person has traveled a road and even when you put three people o nthe same road, there will be three different views on how good or bad that road is. None is more right than the other just different point of view. Just like to many, COX was a perfect game, to others it was an ok game, some it was merely tolerable, and other it was not worth even playing. Same game same content, different views. 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 06:45:59 PM by JaguarX »

Feycat

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Re: How NCSoft and Nexon Intend to Play With Your Head
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2012, 07:02:19 PM »
Yes, because your in-game experiences are worth SO much more than mine.

Sorry, that is not your determination to make; my highest character is level 9, and yes she runs slowly. Quite slowly. Even level 1 unenhanced sprint in CoX was at least twice as fast. Forgive me for being disgusted with the speed of travel in GW2 compared to that of CoX. Not to mention, at least I could level up to Fly eventually - usually after one DFB run. In GW2, even a level 80 is never going to fly.

Never.

I could be level 5 in ten minutes in CoX. Not so in GW2. I am glad you have a huge guild supporting every thing you do and helping you out. Not everyone has that luxury.

GW2 is a pretty game, with good combat. I do not think NCStupid is going to let it live long due to lack of P2P - the money is going to start falling off sharply in a bit, is my guess. Hell, CoX had a THRIVING RMT shop and they STILL killed it. I'm not going to sink roots deeply into that game; after all, this IS the MMOKiller we're talking about.

The fact is - simple fact - that run-speed in GW2 is quite fast comparable to run speeds in other MMOs. That's just in game-feet-covered-per second measurements. GW2 is also quite a big world, and it's very easy to enhance your run speed with traits, skills and whatnot. Yes, you will never fly - and thank god for that, because it doesn't fit in the context of the game world. I miss flying like crazy, it's the last thing I did before the game ended was just fly around all the zones I loved, but I would never ever want it in GW2. Running and waypoints get me around the world as quick as an Oro portal and a travel power.

Pardon me if I think that, having gotten only to level 9, you don't really have a fully rounded viewpoint of the game to draw on. I'm not saying that in a snarky way, I'm absolutely serious. You've barely brushed the beginning of the game, and it seems you gave up pretty quickly. That's certainly your perogative - I gave up on DDO pretty quickly, it just wasn't a game I could enjoy - but I don't think that gives you a good standing to critique the game.

My guild doesn't "support everything I do" and I don't know where you got that impression. They are fantastic people that I can chat and RP with, and occasionally run dungeons, but 90% of my time is spent in a duo with my best friend (who I met in COH) and we blaze through content. And thanks to the downleveling system (yay for any game stealing any version of sidekicking!!) when several RL friends of mine recently bought the game, I was able to come play alongside them without having to roll new alts, or make their gameplay meaningless, because I was leveled down to their level.

Part of the problem may be that in GW2, the xp isn't in hearts or quests or grinding mobs - it's in world events. As long as you're doing events, you will level in a hurry - if you play it like a traditional theme park MMO, you won't.

As for the cash shop? The game is THREE MONTHS OLD. They've added 3 major content patches for free to the game, one per month, and there's another big holiday content patch hitting on the 14th. They've added things to the store with every patch. There will be more and more added to the store. Do you not remember the days when there were only a few super packs available to be bought, and the sloowwwww rate at which more were added, before COH went F2P?

You have a right to your opinion, and your experience is valid - but your experience is extremely limited. I wouldn't let someone who played through the tutorial of COH and then quit slag that game off without challenging them - and I'll do the same for GW2.