Author Topic: The right to play  (Read 20111 times)

Little Green Frog

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The right to play
« on: December 05, 2012, 06:44:22 AM »
Hey, I just wanted to let you all know that there is an article covering the closure of CoH in ReadWrite, which is a well known and influential magazine in startup and tech circles:

http://readwrite.com/2012/12/04/a-eulogy-for-city-of-heroes-how-a-video-game-saved-my-life

What sets this article apart from the others is that the author raises an interesting point about the right for preservation of online communities, such as MMOs. This is something that I've been giving a lot of thought even before NC Soft has decided to pull the plug on us and I am hoping that maybe the outcry sparked with abrupt and unexpected closure of our beloved game will help the concept of player rights get more exposure. Because right now we, as players, are in such a position that we can devote a lot of time and effort into creating communities and bonds, but the continued existence of these depend on a whim of a corporate owner, who may not have our best interest in mind, especially when undertaking such drastic decisions as a closure of a long running title. This is absurd and as pointed out in the past, can't be considered ethical.

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 07:09:09 AM »
As I get some time, I'd like to explore this issue as well, as it's very important to me too.  The fact is that in many cases, people pay thousands of dollars over the course of years and sink thousands of hours into these games, yet we have less access and rights subsequent to a shutdown or other corporate maneuvers than for most sub-$20 bargain bin specials at your local GameStop.

One counterargument I frequently see to the SaveCoH movement goes something like this: "You know that this game was going to shut down at some point, why are you acting all surprised and mad about it?"  Or phrased another way, "Do you think you have the right to force a company like NCsoft to keep supporting a product that they no longer want to?"

The simple answer is yes and no.  No, I don't necessarily think that NCsoft must keep City of Heroes servers running indefinitely.  However, I do believe that companies should plan ahead for when a game is going to be sunset and make arrangements for it to either keep running after the sunset period or transfer it to someone who can do so.  I'm imagining a scenario, for example, in which they basically give the game to Steam or gog.com or some service like that (perhaps multiple services, why not?), who can then charge a nominal fee to cover the cost of a VM somewhere run a single server instance so that people can keep playing.  No new investments in development, basically no customer service ("My machine won't run the client!"  "Noted.") except kicking the server once in a while if it crashes, etc.  Just something to ensure that once someone has invested hundreds or thousands of dollars into a game, it won't just *poof!* be lost when they shut the servers off one day.

My stock answer is that after enticing players to spend so much time and money on a game in a genre that's so conducive to that kind of investment, companies like NCsoft have a moral and ethical obligation to not leave players out in the cold like we have been.  NCsoft has now done it five times.  I wish I had spoken up earlier when they did it to other games, but I don't want to compound my silence then with apathy now.  At some point, players have to make a stand and say, "This is not acceptable."

There's another thread around here that someone created regarding a Gamer's Bill of Rights.  When I get time, I'll probably circle back and read it again and see if we can't get something moving on the idea.  Nobody should have to go through this because some faceless corporation decides, "Yeah, we're done with that."

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 07:09:50 AM »
We need to be sure to tell her that we are HERE and that she's welcome! ;)

Also, yes, it is an interesting subject that has come up a few times.
Obviously there are financial expenses and resources that need to be covered, but I do believe the nature of online communities garners greater protection than there currently is. How, exactly, I am not at all certain.

In our case, clearly there was a major real community around a profitable business venture.
Honestly, I've thought about some sort of online game maintenance/rescue/insurance company/service of some nature.
A mandate on the publisher to allow the usage of the product through some sort of rescue operation (if the publishers do not wish to do it themselves).
I'm not thinking this through right now and this is all extremely fresh off of my mind and there'd be a ton of legality issues with IP and bureaucratic entanglements...
But there might be something there. Even if it is just to implement a working offline game version. Or enabling/allowing legal private servers of the game.

Once it has been shutdown... there should be some way of that work to still be enjoyed, if there is someone who wants to enjoy it.

*shrugs*

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corvus1970

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 07:35:12 AM »
Superb article, thanks so much for linking it.

I too agree that we as a community, a community who paid-for, cherished, and nurtured CoH for 8 years should indeed be able to have something of the world we shared. Be that, as suggested, basic server access with no forthcoming expansions or customer support, and our hopefully-reduced monthly-fee going directly towards the server, its basic maintenance, and backup.

The concept is a bit of a sticky-wicket, but my mindset is clear: corporations should take moral and ethical responsibilities seriously, and do so above-and-beyond the letter of the law. If a company shows it gives a damn, people will repay it with loyalty. How much better would NCSoft be regarded now if instead of killing the games they have to this point, they simply set them aside, focused R&D on new games, but allowed basic access to those who still wanted to play and were willing to pay?

Sure, eventually those games would die too, but it would be a more natural, more "organic" death that came as a result of attrition: once the subscriptions dropped below the level needed to maintain the servers, then the announcement would come and the game eventually shut down.

That, I feel, is something that many of us would have accepted. Sure, there would have been complaints and regrets, but we'd still be able to PLAY, and that's a hell of a lot better than what we have now.
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Little Green Frog

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 08:20:26 AM »
I am hoping that sooner or later a debacle comparable with the closure of City of Heroes would inspire an able attorney to make a case for the courts about perseverance of online communities. They could argue that the effort required to run such community is shared between the publisher and the community itself and because of that the publisher would be obligated to forfeit all data necessary to keep those communities operable either by another company or a community effort when the publisher chooses not to support it anymore. Right now the communities have absolutely no say about their future and are not entitled to the content they create.

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 09:42:09 AM »
As I get some time, I'd like to explore this issue as well, as it's very important to me too.  The fact is that in many cases, people pay thousands of dollars over the course of years and sink thousands of hours into these games, yet we have less access and rights subsequent to a shutdown or other corporate maneuvers than for most sub-$20 bargain bin specials at your local GameStop.

One counterargument I frequently see to the SaveCoH movement goes something like this: "You know that this game was going to shut down at some point, why are you acting all surprised and mad about it?"  Or phrased another way, "Do you think you have the right to force a company like NCsoft to keep supporting a product that they no longer want to?"

The simple answer is yes and no.  No, I don't necessarily think that NCsoft must keep City of Heroes servers running indefinitely.  However, I do believe that companies should plan ahead for when a game is going to be sunset and make arrangements for it to either keep running after the sunset period or transfer it to someone who can do so.  I'm imagining a scenario, for example, in which they basically give the game to Steam or gog.com or some service like that (perhaps multiple services, why not?), who can then charge a nominal fee to cover the cost of a VM somewhere run a single server instance so that people can keep playing.  No new investments in development, basically no customer service ("My machine won't run the client!"  "Noted.") except kicking the server once in a while if it crashes, etc.  Just something to ensure that once someone has invested hundreds or thousands of dollars into a game, it won't just *poof!* be lost when they shut the servers off one day.

My stock answer is that after enticing players to spend so much time and money on a game in a genre that's so conducive to that kind of investment, companies like NCsoft have a moral and ethical obligation to not leave players out in the cold like we have been.  NCsoft has now done it five times.  I wish I had spoken up earlier when they did it to other games, but I don't want to compound my silence then with apathy now.  At some point, players have to make a stand and say, "This is not acceptable."

There's another thread around here that someone created regarding a Gamer's Bill of Rights.  When I get time, I'll probably circle back and read it again and see if we can't get something moving on the idea.  Nobody should have to go through this because some faceless corporation decides, "Yeah, we're done with that."
I plan to take a break from these forums and this debate at large because I have very strong feelings about this, and it seems the larger community has theirs but won't come together on the details, which is breaking my heart... That aside, Tony, as always, illustrates my feelings at their core. He has the talent of transcending political correctness where I really have no patience for it and speaheads the point of the matter.

While I appreciate what NCsoft did in continuing CoH after Cryptic, I feel there's an obligation by whomever's the controlling interest to 'finish the story', or in this case 'let it live on for those who appreciate it'. I no longer watch network television (short of one dalliance because of my wife- I watch Castle, but I'll buy Once Upon A Time when the series is successfully completed and watch it then) because I have no faith that I'll actually get to see the end of my story. This is the same thing.

For game play, I'll decide when the story's over for my character. From the generation who played PONG, I want my game 'til I'm done playing it. I could probably play CoH as it was at its closure for years to come before I found myself bored of the combinations of powers or character concepts. When I say years, I mean decades. It wasn't about "what was new", thought it helped. For me, it was about "how was it new to this character concept?!" As an example, I had a TA/Dark Defender I'd solo in my free time. Everything tinted red because he was a Vigilante 'blood mage' that tried to bring justice to the Rogue Isles. After Water Manipuation came out, I moved him to another server (he was in his 30's- and I had plenty of xfers) and remade him as a Water/Pain Dom Corrupter because it fit him better. I would have run him as-was, but the update made him fit my vision even more. I could have happily run that TA/Dark  to 50, becaue his story meant something to me. I felt it worth it that he get the best run. Either worked but it, to me, proves that even a version of CoH/V without updates is more desirable/viable than nothing at all.

I can't express what this game has meant to me, and it is trivial compared to some of the stories I've seen presented in support of this game. All I can say is that it meant more to me than I'm able to describe and now it's gone with no recourse.

It's not a matter of fair. I'd give my own resources to keep it running on my own computer if I had to. That option wasn't available. I have a decent computer. I'm sure if I was running a server on it (especially if I bought a new one and dedicated this one to it, which I'm sure I and many would) there'd be space to run an 'unwanted' program...

If this were about what's 'right', then we'd still be playing, that's another story for another time...

It's not about 'nice'... We see where that's gotten us.

and it's not about greed or power, or we'd easily have the emulators by now. We wanted to be 'good' people about this (see above) and I can't blame you.

I'm not a political person, and this has well-passed into this range of combat that I'm ill-equipped to engage in. I'm too honest and straightforward to get involved in that. However the idea that a game is 'art' and its meaning to personal interests is of worth (at least to me, and apparently many others that have found solace in this medium) that once it's created (and the communites that spawn from it) are made, it starts to fall outside the hands of its creators is intriguing to me.

It harkens back to the legislations from way back in the day that you can't copywrite a program's source code, because a source code implied ideas, and that one cannot monopolize upon thoughts. That's where the crazy EULAS about reverse-engineering a program's code came about.

Roadmaps aside, CoH is an art, and it's and idea, and NCsoft is taking it away from us. Is it legal? In today's context who knows.

All I can say for me and mine, it isn't right.

But that and $2.50'll get me a cup of coffee.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 10:04:54 AM »
You have all articulated this very well.

If I were to make a real world analogy here...

Imagine if you were to buy a condo in a little resort.  It's a quirky place, and happens to, by and large, attract the same sort of people as you.  First a few of you come together, then you all start to form community groups, and the next thing you know, you have a city that bumbles along with some clashes, but mostly getting along GREAT.

Then the resort comes to you and says "We're bulldozing.  The Hyatt offered us ten times for the land."

You say--"WTF???  I BOUGHT this!  I've been paying my condo fees all this time!"

The resort says "Read the fine print.  You only bought the rights to live in the condo until we kicked you out.  Too bad, so sad, buhbye." 

It's not an exact analogy, but it's close.  And I seriously think that for an MMORPG we should have the right to find someone with a spare server and run it until the last person leaves.
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Re: The right to play
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 10:24:25 AM »
I did approach a few gaming companies with my day-job-journalist-hat-on asking about gamers rights.

Everyone apart from Blizzard ignored me (they said they'd get back to me and then didn't.) Then I got distracted with the Wildcard project.

I'll see if I can't start chasing people on this.
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Septipheran

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 11:10:35 AM »

The simple answer is yes and no.  No, I don't necessarily think that NCsoft must keep City of Heroes servers running indefinitely.  However, I do believe that companies should plan ahead for when a game is going to be sunset and make arrangements for it to either keep running after the sunset period or transfer it to someone who can do so.

The funny thing about this is that it's essentially been tried and proven that it only takes one Paragon employee to keep COH running in maintenance mode. Surely enough COH players would have stuck around and kept paying to cover one guy's salary and at least keep the game alive, albeit without any content updates. Shrug.

I just wanted to edit this and point out that I am, as someone phrased it somewhere on these forums earlier, firmly a "Randian" in that I think businesses have every right to make decisions regarding their intellectual property. This is no exception. I'm also a big believer in free markets and the wallet vote- This is capitalism at its finest, and capitalism is good. There is a definite line between thinking a business practice is unethical and therefore ceasing all your personal transactions with the business in question while encouraging others to do the same, and trying to contrive and distort a scenario wherein you imply or directly state that the business should suffer legal repercussions for doing something they had every legal right to do. Again, this is the beauty of capitalism: People have the right to be jerks, and you have a right to stop doing business with them because of it. If enough people feel the same way as you do, it will have negative consequences on their image and prosperity. In this case, we've already seen examples of such an impact occurring. No need to write your congressman, capitalism is WAI.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:20:40 AM by Septipheran »

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 11:12:05 AM »
In a worst case scenario, I certainly would have.

Little Green Frog

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 11:34:02 AM »
You have all articulated this very well.

If I were to make a real world analogy here...

Imagine if you were to buy a condo in a little resort.  It's a quirky place, and happens to, by and large, attract the same sort of people as you.  First a few of you come together, then you all start to form community groups, and the next thing you know, you have a city that bumbles along with some clashes, but mostly getting along GREAT.

Then the resort comes to you and says "We're bulldozing.  The Hyatt offered us ten times for the land."

You say--"WTF???  I BOUGHT this!  I've been paying my condo fees all this time!"

The resort says "Read the fine print.  You only bought the rights to live in the condo until we kicked you out.  Too bad, so sad, buhbye." 

It's not an exact analogy, but it's close.  And I seriously think that for an MMORPG we should have the right to find someone with a spare server and run it until the last person leaves.

This is a great analogy, but with online communities there is even greater lack of symmetry, because we actively participated in content creation. It's not like we merely lived in that condo. The owner offered us the bulding, but we furnished it, decorated it, planted the trees along the driveway and so on. Now the owner comes and not only kicks us out, but also burns our belongings and cuts those trees. The problem is these things never belonged to them in the first place. In real world the tenants would either have been given time to move away or be paid damages. In our case we are left with nothing.

With the closure of City of Heroes we lost gigabytes worth of data that we have created over the years. For example it only took the flip of a switch for the entire discussion board to disappear with no way to appeal or to save the content. True that it was their platform we created that content on, but we authored it. I can't help but see connection between what happened to City and how digital platforms seem to occasionally work agains their users (and common sense) in the modern world. Remember how Amazon remotely removed all copies of Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell from people Kindles? I feel this is the same thing. Kindle users don't own the platform, so if Amazon decides they can't have access to a book they paid for, they won't. Same thing with MMOs: since you don't own the platform, you may create as much content as you wish, but it is up to a faceless guy in a tie in an office located somewhere on the other side of the globe to make it all disappear with a sudden puff.

Thunder Glove

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 11:45:15 AM »
You have all articulated this very well.

If I were to make a real world analogy here...

Imagine if you were to buy a condo in a little resort.  It's a quirky place, and happens to, by and large, attract the same sort of people as you.  First a few of you come together, then you all start to form community groups, and the next thing you know, you have a city that bumbles along with some clashes, but mostly getting along GREAT.

Then the resort comes to you and says "We're bulldozing.  The Hyatt offered us ten times for the land."

You say--"WTF???  I BOUGHT this!  I've been paying my condo fees all this time!"

The resort says "Read the fine print.  You only bought the rights to live in the condo until we kicked you out.  Too bad, so sad, buhbye." 

It's not an exact analogy, but it's close.  And I seriously think that for an MMORPG we should have the right to find someone with a spare server and run it until the last person leaves.

This is pretty similar to the analogy I made on the official forums about the closing. I likened it to a house that you had spent a long time looking for, where you'd gotten used to (and could live with) all its little quirks, and had decorated it to your tastes and whims (constantly making little improvements here and there).

And then, while you were looking forward to getting a few new pieces of furniture in a month, some land-owning corporation (one that, until that moment, had kept out of your decorating) pull up in a house-moving truck and cart the whole away.  You know the house is still out there, somewhere, but you don't know where and you can't get to it, and they won't let you see it.

(There was also a rant directed towards the Official Forum Unicorns who insisted that there were plenty of other places to go: "Look, there's some rat-infested hovels you could move into, or a billion-dollar mansion you can't afford, so don't complain about not having a home!  I'm sure they're just as good as the house you loved!")

Also not a perfect analogy.  (And I think yours is better) :D

estarriol

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 11:47:53 AM »
This is something I've been thinking about in the past week, although from a slightly different angle. I've even started to try to find gaming lawyers to consult to see whether this could work legally.

I think there's more mileage to the concept of a standard commitment which MMO (and pseudo-MMOs like Demon's Souls) providers could sign up to which would guarantee that an up-to-date copy all their code, accounts, resources would be held by a neutral trust and, at the point the original publisher decided to sunset their operation (or were forced out of business etc), the trust would gain a level of ownership that would allow them to allow non-profit hosting of the game either directly or by a third party.

The advantage to the publisher is that they could declare themselves compliant, and thus their subscribers would know their time/money investment was less at risk of being "wasted".

Thoughts?

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 11:51:29 AM »
Just to elaborate, I think we're a very long way off reaching the point where MMO providers agree that we have some kind of "rights" to have virtual worlds kept alive and accessible. I think a combination of a standard charter they could sign up to plus lots of pressure from players to do so would achieve this much more quickly.

Little Green Frog

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 11:57:48 AM »
I just wanted to edit this and point out that I am, as someone phrased it somewhere on these forums earlier, firmly a "Randian" in that I think businesses have every right to make decisions regarding their intellectual property.

Yes, of course, I agree they can do with their IP as they please. But MMOs are a slightly different beast than most, because they are effectively a combined effort between the publisher, the developer and the community. No MMO can live without the community. But when it comes to legal matters, community is not allowed to have a say. Why? I suppose it is only because contrary to companies, players are a loose bunch that lacks legal representation which would ask for appropriate rights on their behalf.

Don't get me wrong. No publisher should be forced to maintain a game if they do not wish to do so. However, given that - and I can't stress this enough - running an MMO is a shared effort between publishers, developers and the community, situations like the one City finds itself in, that is with a company like NC Soft unwilling to make any effort whatsoever to let the community live on, should not be allowed.

edit: I said they are unwilling to make an effort to let the community live but I should really say that they seem to be actively blocking such efforts thus far.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 12:24:47 PM by trwired »

Septipheran

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2012, 12:32:38 PM »
Yes, of course, I agree they can do with their IP as they please. But MMOs are a slightly different beast than most, because they are effectively a combined effort between the publisher, the developer and the community. No MMO can live without the community. But when it comes to legal matters, community is not allowed to have a say. Why? I suppose it is only because contrary to companies, players are a loose bunch that lacks legal representation which would ask for appropriate rights on their behalf.

Don't get me wrong. No publisher should be forced to maintain a game if they do not wish to do so. However, given that - and I can't stress this enough - running an MMO is a shared effort between publishers, developers and the community, situations like the one City finds itself in, that is with a company like NC Soft unwilling to make any effort whatsoever to let the community live on, should not be allowed.

I'm trying to make sure I don't come off too 'robotic' during this conversation, because I care about COH too. But I just can't agree with you. This situation is a case of voluntary exchange- When people say that players accept the risk of MMO's closing at any time when they sign up and click "I agree" on the EULA, they're right. If you don't agree to the terms that are laid before you before you can play a game, the logical conclusion is that you should not be playing that game. This is just the cold hard truth.

Now, back to my initial point, because I think it's more constructive. First, it's important not to get out of hand like some people seem to be suggesting, including you. There is no legal recourse, nor is there any conceivable grounds for legal recourse. This is a good thing, because once again it's how capitalism works. Now, as a fan of COH and someone who would love to see the game sold and resurrected, there is a reasonable view to take that doesn't involve throwing voluntary exchange out the window and crying for government regulation in virtual worlds. That's the last thing I want to see.

The reasonable approach is simple: Don't give them any more money. Markets self regulate and this is no exception. If enough people are upset by a company's actions on ethical grounds, those people will no longer financially support or enable that company. The company will have to either accept those losses or change their ways. If the loss is financially sustainable, it just means that obviously they didn't upset a significant amount of their customer base. In the case of NCSoft it already looks like their reputation is going to hell and they're hurting financially.

Voting with your wallet and encouraging others to do the same is reasonable, and it's your prerogative as a consumer. Crying for government oversight and regulation because you agreed to terms of service that in hindsight you probably didn't actually agree to is not reasonable. Accusing someone of a crime or saying someone's actions which were well within the law should be punishable just because you made an error in judgment when agreeing to the terms of use on a product they provided is not reasonable. There is a difference between what someone "shouldn't" do and what they "can't" do. The former is subjective, the latter is objective. Laws don't exist to enforce whims and prejudices. Consumer actions, however, can be used to voice said opinions and ultimately lead to a much more constructive resolution.

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2012, 01:01:01 PM »
Much as it irritates me, I have to agree with Septipheran on this.  Not that Septipheran irritates me LOL, I just hate that he is right about this and that this IS what we agreed to.

Gamers, and MMO gamers for the most part, actually allowed this to happen....by agreeing to pay for this online only system to begin with.

I have always refused to pay for online only games for this very reason...that if the company went under or simply stopped the game...I would be out a lot of money with nothing to show for it.  I kept that refusal going until I broke down and played a trial for COH (about a year or so before Freedom).  Sigh....I broke down and began paying for it.

I am glad I did...if I had not, I would not have met all the great people I did and would have missed out on the best Superhero MMO STILL TO DATE!!!!.   But that does not change the fact that now, I am out money...with nothing to show for it except some screen shots and some memories (great memories, but still only memories) (but I paid something like $20 and got the Original Unreal Tournament and still get a lot of enjoyment out of that...or games Like Call of Duty (1 and 2...never went beyond the WW2 versions).

Players gave these companies this power over them when they agreed to pay for this kind of system. 

Trying to take legal action against these companies or bring in government regulations is not the way to go.  We ARE going about this the right way....by putting pressure on the company in question....damaging its PR image and most probably affecting its stock value to some degree. (stock holders, by and large, hate negative PR)

<add via edit>

Okay, I admit that there is a very small, irrationally radical part of me that wishes we could threaten the ROK with the removal of all our troops from the DMZ if they don't force NCSoft to sell COH lock, stock, and barrel to Titan.  But that is the small radical part, not the rational part which is, thankfully, dominant. :)
 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 01:17:32 PM by Dylan Clearbrook »
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Re: The right to play
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2012, 01:14:56 PM »
I'm trying to make sure I don't come off too 'robotic' during this conversation, because I care about COH too. But I just can't agree with you. This situation is a case of voluntary exchange- When people say that players accept the risk of MMO's closing at any time when they sign up and click "I agree" on the EULA, they're right. If you don't agree to the terms that are laid before you before you can play a game, the logical conclusion is that you should not be playing that game. This is just the cold hard truth.

I think you may be missing my point, because I am far from - as you put it - crying for government regulation of virtual worlds. I do not think such regulations would be helpful. I am, however, concerned with perseverance of community created data. Who owns it and has the final say about what happens to it? It appears that at the moment the answer is the platform owner and that their power over it is absolute. But this status quo may only survive because it was never challenged and I believe it should be.

As for the capitalism at work: some ISPs would like to prioritize certain types of data while throttling others. This way they could earn additional money by selling higher priorities to content distributors. And given how often the end user has little to no choice in what ISP they use, the invisible hand of the market would be helpless here if not for regulations that prohibit ISPs from this behavior. But this is beside the point and doesn't apply to NC Soft. Just pointing out that voting with the wallet is not always the be all and end all tool for punishing companies that work against the interests of their customers.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 01:20:47 PM by trwired »

Segev

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2012, 01:29:46 PM »
You have all articulated this very well.

If I were to make a real world analogy here...

Imagine if you were to buy a condo in a little resort.  It's a quirky place, and happens to, by and large, attract the same sort of people as you.  First a few of you come together, then you all start to form community groups, and the next thing you know, you have a city that bumbles along with some clashes, but mostly getting along GREAT.

Then the resort comes to you and says "We're bulldozing.  The Hyatt offered us ten times for the land."

You say--"WTF???  I BOUGHT this!  I've been paying my condo fees all this time!"

The resort says "Read the fine print.  You only bought the rights to live in the condo until we kicked you out.  Too bad, so sad, buhbye." 

It's not an exact analogy, but it's close.  And I seriously think that for an MMORPG we should have the right to find someone with a spare server and run it until the last person leaves.
I hate to be "that guy," but I feel that I have to, here. The condo analogy is nearly perfectly apt, but not for the reasons VV mentions it. Condos are a weird legal entity that I don't understand well enough to comment on; but a more appropriate term would be "apartment complex."

Just as VV's example says, we bought an apartment. Its management ran it with a strong community emphasis, attracting a lot of the same kind of people and putting together tight-knit groups who were always eager to welcome others in. People move in and out, but there's just this something that its long-term tenants can't find anywhere else. They gladly pay their monthly rent, and shop at the on-site gift-and-convenience store that carried complex-specific products, and put their lives into it.

But in the end, they don't own it. They own the furniture they bought, the own the products bought from the store that are only useful with some of the features that the apartment building provides, and they've invested tens of thousands of dollars in living here...but it's not theirs. The building, the space, is owned by a distant corporation that has, for whatever reason, decided to close the complex down, fire its beloved superintendent and management, and evict everybody. They stay until the end of their current lease.

It's sad that all those people are losing their homes, and that they can't find another complex with the same community aspect, but it's the way it is. They can keep all their stuff, but a lot of it doesn't do them much good in other complexes.

(We're talking in big generalities, here. The way NCSoft handled it is the equivalent of kicking all those people out and leaving the building an empty, unused hulk when it had been turning a profit when it was running. This is just plain stupid business. In a more general sense, though, we can hope that most companies that own these metaphorical apartment complexes are in it to make money and are smart enough not to make inexplicable decisions on this scale.)

To force a company that determines running the apartment complex is no longer in their best interests to continue to maintain it is slavery. To force them to give it away against their will is theft. What if they determined that the apartment complex (i.e. the resources that they devote to the game) would serve better as an office building (i.e. are better spent devoted to other products)? If it really will make them more money, then that office building generates more good for more people than the apartment did...or there are perverse governmental incentives. But I edge dangerously close to politics, here.

The long and the short of it is, we knew we were paying rent on a virtual space.

This is not to say anything Save CoH did was wrong. Far from it! I would fully expect that community living in that beloved apartment complex to do all they could to persuade the owners to change their minds. To sell it, to keep running it, anything but evicting them and shutting it down. And this is perfectly right and laudible, especially when they go about it by showing that they'll spend more if they have to to keep it, that their community is a cultural artifact worth preserving in and of itself, that they are going to do good for others to draw attention to their own plight.

But in the end, should those efforts fail, it is wrong to say, "okay, we're going to now accuse you of being immoral and unethical because you made a decision for your own life that negatively impacts ours." We knew it was their property. The correct response is to try to come up with a way to make preservation of the use of those things we DO own possible. We learned this is not happening here and now, and it hurts. But we've got the "Plan Z" ideas as a very valid (if ambitious) plan to build our own, newer apartment complex. And we can discuss ways we'd like to see other companies preserve what is preservable...but we cannot demand that they do on moral/ethical grounds. We can on business grounds: "Find a way to guarantee us this, and we'll do business with you over others." But that's it. Anything else is attempting to claim that the Baker's Union was immoral for refusing to work for less than they wanted and putting Hostess out of business. (Personally, I think they were foolish, but they weren't being unethical or immoral. Just foolish.) To demand they take whatever Hostess offered and continue to work for them would have been slavery.

Sajaana

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Re: The right to play
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 04:02:45 PM »
I always wondered what kind of entertainment CoH resembled.  I believe it--like any MMO--best resembles a casino.

A casino is beautiful.  It attracts all the senses.  It gives you a place to meet people from all over the world.  It dazzles you with fancy costumes, grand spectacles, scrumptious food and a licesnse to explore your desires.  "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas," and "What happens in CoH stays in CoH."

But all of these experiences in the casino are engineered to divorce a person from his or her money.  When the money runs out, Vegas has no more use for you and shows you the door in the coldest way, leaving the former patron with nothing.

The casino is a wealth-separating machine, and it is very good at what it does.  CoH was, regrettably, also a wealth-separating machine.  This became all too apparent when they introduced the Paragon Store.  We abstract our spending, buying casino chips--*ahem*--"Paragon Points."  We take a spin on the wheel of fortune--*ahem*--the "super packs."  They give some the "High Roller's Suite," the VIP players, and let the rest stumble around the casino floor.

From our perspective, CoH was something really profound.  From their perspective, it was about as profound as the Sands, or the Flamingo, or the Luxor or the Bellagio.  When the getting is good, the casinos remain open...until you conceive of an even bigger, better and more effective wealth-separating machine and require space.  Then the casino just becomes something you tear down.

Nobody ever questioned--least of all the owners--the need to bring the Sands down.  Forget about how Oceans 11 was filmed there, or Sammy Davis, Jr. played there.  All those stories, all those good times that happened on the floor and in the Copa, were--in the end--inconsequential.  There is too much money to be made to get sentimental about things, I suppose.

But the tragic thing about CoH--or any MMO--is that they really don't need to be demolished to make space.  As if the usual wealth-separating techniques weren't enough, the MMO business lays an even more insidious threat at our feet: extortion.  They sell us things we enjoy and want to keep, but to keep these things, we have to make sure that everyone else spends money and attracts new money to keep the publisher in the black and highly profitable.  They never tell us how much money they want.  They never tell us how popular this game ought to be for it to survive.  All we know is that the publisher needs his cut or he'll put us down like an ill dog or a lame horse.

I am constantly struck by the kind of vitriol and desperation we see in places where MMO players discuss these games.  We shamelessly promote our game in a desperate attempt to gain more interest in it.  We shamelessly tear down other MMOs that compete with us.  We do, because our continued enjoyment of these things depends upon convincing our pimp--*ahem*--publisher that we ought not be kicked to the curb, and the only way to do that is to deliver more bodies and wallets to them.

And when the inevitable does happen, when we finally get the axe, we are constantly mocked and ridiculed by the peanut gallery as a has-been, washed up community in a game for has-beens and the washed up.  The good things we enjoyed and tried to maintain as best as we could are disparaged as unpopular, unprofitable or unfashionable.  We become "yesterday's news" and "yesterday's people," unfit for much other than to become a new body and a new wallet in another exploitive fantasy land.

I'm ashamed at what this industry did to us; I'm ashamed at what we've become because of this industry.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 06:05:00 PM by Sajaana »