Mac Alternatives Now That CoH is Gone?

[Wammo]

I am desperate for a game to replace CoH. I am a Mac user and CoH provided the very best gaming experience for guys like me...anyone have a recommended alternative? At least until CoH is resurrected :-)

[Nafaustu]

We should start a letter writing campaign to Bethesda to make sure Elder Scrolls Online gets one.   Any other MMOs in development right now?

[dwturducken]

One of the guys in my group has just given up after a long, frustrating bout of problems with things like Parallels and dual boots, so this is a concern for us, as well. I believe TSW has a Mac version forthcoming, but I haven't looked at that in a while. WoW is the only one I know of, and theirs is pretty solid, for whatever reason.

Even on the night of the 30th, Pat had to fail and retry loading CoH close to a dozen times before he got to the login screen, and that was pretty typical for him.

[Starsman]

Parallels is no way to play games in a mac.

So far the only MMOs I know for mac are World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2.

CoH was not an actual port, it was sort of running in an emulated thing of sorts, not too unlike Crossover. I may test to run some other MMOs with it later on my mac, but it will always add a bit of overhead.

Also, there was a thread a few months back in the CoH boards that said this:

Champions Online can be run on a Mac using the Star Trek Online wrapper. That's how my wife installed it on her Mac.

I have no intention of trying GW2 for the Mac, but that's not out of any anti-NCSoft sentiment, it's that the system specs for my computer are approximately half of what the bare minimum requirements for it are. (My computer's only three years old, but it's apparently not new enough)

Unfortunately no much detail was given. Link to google cache (for as long as it survives) is here

I'll be googling more on that later (didn't even know STO had a wraper to run on mac)

[chaparralshrub]

Well, if you run a sufficiently recent Mac, you can download a PC emulator. I run VirtualBox on mine. It needs some driver help in order to run some games, which is painful. If it's a really recent Mac and you have access to Windows, you can also install Bootcamp, which doesn't have driver issues. You just need a compatible version of Windows which, sadly, I don't.

That opens up STO and CO to you.

[Starsman]

OK I just found this link in the STO forums:


http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=381881

Still not sure how to adapt this for Champions but hey, whoever is doing this is maintaining it (check the last update to the OP, it was Oct, 2012.)

Also there is always bootcamp. I know I hate to reboot into windows myself but, always an option.

[Starsman]

Sorry modified the link with a more recent thread. From what I gather the steps provided in the documentation are exactly the same to get either CO or STO running on a mac.

[Thunder Glove]

I got Champions running on a Mac (a three-year-old Mac, wink wink), using that Star Trek Online wrapper.  I had to find and download a full version of the Champions client, though (not the installer from the CO website).  That took me nearly all day Saturday (both the search and the actual 3-ish GB download - my Internet isn't slow, but the download seemed to be throttled).

This is not the link I used, but it should work just as well: http://www.joystiq.com/game/champions-online/download/champions-online-free-to-play-client/

The modification basically jsut involves changing the file name the wrapper is looking for from "Star Trek Online" to "Champions Online".

[Starsman]

Curious: how does the wrapper thing behaves when CO gets updated?

[SuckerPunch]

Elder Scrolls Online will be a native Mac game, so there's that to look forward to at least.

[Wammo]

I am not a tech savy person. What is this wrapper you guys are talking about and how do you use it? Can you use the bootcamp program without installing windows in order to run windows based software?

[Starsman]

I am not a tech savy person. What is this wrapper you guys are talking about and how do you use it? Can you use the bootcamp program without installing windows in order to run windows based software?

I am not sure how the wrapper works, but I think it  uses Wine, a "middle guy" software that somehow translates instructions to the current OS OR may just provide the app with the necessary APIs or something... it tends to work is the important bit, but can be tricky to configure for each app. The links I provide give instructions on how to make it work with STO and Champions.

As for Bootcamp: the "program" is just a set of drivers for windows, this allows Windows to work properly on a mac. You still will need to install Windows from a disk. Bootcamp will ask for the disk. The goal of bootcamp is that you can shut down out of MacOSX and boot into Windows as needed. I rarely use it because I hate booting out of OSX and sometimes it's a bit annoying to get the thing to reboot into OSX. :P

[Starsman]

Elder Scrolls Online will be a native Mac game, so there's that to look forward to at least.

That's amazing then!!! I saw the 9 minute preview and was blown away (may have to do with me playing Oblivion right now) Sure, its' fantasy and I'm honestly sick of fantasy, BUT there may be a perk to playing a game who's studio is local to me: if i get into it I may actually be able to go to player meetups!  8)

[SuckerPunch]

That's amazing then!!! I saw the 9 minute preview and was blown away (may have to do with me playing Oblivion right now) Sure, its' fantasy and I'm honestly sick of fantasy, BUT there may be a perk to playing a game who's studio is local to me: if i get into it I may actually be able to go to player meetups!  8)

Haha, another Baltimoron?  (Full disclosure: I work for ZOS).

[Wammo]

Thanks a bunch Stars...Once I get the "middleman" working for me and get in game I hope we can hook up and enjoy some CO together.

[Starsman]

Haha, another Baltimoron?  (Full disclosure: I work for ZOS).

Not by birth :p

And what is ZOS? ZeniMax Online Studios? If so... want to hang out so I can get you drunk and sneak my name in the alpha testing list?  8)

[RubiconX]

I too am looking for a mac alternative, I checked out CO when it first came out and quickly dumped it but since there aren't many options for super hero mmo's right now I figured I'd give it another try.

I did the whole STO wrapper trick and that worked, however it seems to play pretty crappy but that could just be my impression of the game. Are you guys seeing it play very well and responsive using the wrapper?

[Starsman]

I have not tried the wrapper yet. I do have a PC next to my mac so I have not feel extremely compeled to try it. May take the time to do a test this weekend. Did you try lowering your graphics settings? There is a chance there will be overhead with the wrapper, but the game may auto-set you at higher settings because it can "see" better hardware installed.

[RubiconX]

Figured it out, my macbook pro has 2 nvidia cards in it and until I switch it to "performance" mode it won't use the more powerful of the two. Before doing that, no matter what settings I changed, it was still running poorly.

CoH ran on the less powerful card with no issues btw  ;)

So now I can play CO....yay? lol

[therain93]

I am desperate for a game to replace CoH. I am a Mac user and CoH provided the very best gaming experience for guys like me...anyone have a recommended alternative? At least until CoH is resurrected :-)

Not sure if  you're married to mmos, but, if you haven't played it, Freedom Force is a fun superhero game with a lot of customization.

[avelworldcreator]

The Phoenix Project does plan on being multiplatform. One of our main developers uses a Mac and several others prefer Linux. The latest game engine we are looking at appears to support this better and we will strive to keep the community informed as we progress.

[Wammo]

Decided to download the trial of Crossover and see if CO is a good alternative...ever try Crossover anyone?

[Starsman]

I tried crossover once for the one piece of software I NEED for productivity in my mac. The fact that it didnt work is why I still have my PC set to the left of my 27" iMac :P

[Starsman]

The Phoenix Project does plan on being multiplatform. One of our main developers uses a Mac and several others prefer Linux. The latest game engine we are looking at appears to support this better and we will strive to keep the community informed as we progress.

Nothing against Pz, but that is a WAY far aways for current Mac alternatives (But then again, Elder Scrolls is not here either so maybe I should not complain :P)

Curious: what is the "latest" engine you are looking at? Unity?

[Wammo]

Hey Stars...I downloaded Crossover and then CO but when I launch it the game isn't patching...just frozen on patch screen...any ideas?

[Starsman]

Hey Stars...I downloaded Crossover and then CO but when I launch it the game isn't patching...just frozen on patch screen...any ideas?

Nop. I would recoment just to remove crossover and use the wine wrapper in the documentation. It's not just about getting the thing up, but also configure it so itproperly does things. The guys at the STO forums already put a lot of work on making sure everything works with their documentation, so I'd say that's your best bet.

[avelworldcreator]

Nothing against Pz, but that is a WAY far aways for current Mac alternatives (But then again, Elder Scrolls is not here either so maybe I should not complain :P)

Curious: what is the "latest" engine you are looking at? Unity?

Unity? Oh hell no! That crap lags on my modern PC! x64 and it lags! on the demo!

No. We are using parts of the Mulitverse system and the Crytek 3 engine with customizations

Edit. And next to this computer I'm on I have an old G3 Mac I need to upgrade. I want to do real testing and not guesswork.

[Starsman]

Unity? Oh hell no! That crap lags on my modern PC! x64 and it lags! on the demo!

No. We are using parts of the Mulitverse system and the Crytek 3 engine with customizations

Edit. And next to this computer I'm on I have an old G3 Mac I need to upgrade. I want to do real testing and not guesswork.

Never had issues with Unity slowing down on any machine I have. Been working with it for nearly two years now. Mind you: I paid for the Pro edition and have debugging and profiling tools available.

I was not aware Crytek did Linux publishing now. That was why I asked, I only was aware of Unity targeting all 3 OSs. Are they doing the same as UDK with the 25% commission on anything developed with their engine? That's VERY important to take into account as they may not care about how much it takes to run the servers and still demand their share be taken from the top. Licensing is the main reason I use Unity (that and it's extremely large target range.)

[avelworldcreator]

20% of unit sales. That's it.

[Starsman]

Just checked their site seems its 20% of the revenues (not just box sales.) I bet the actual contract is written to make sure monthly fees and all IAP are included. By saying "revenue", they make sure they take their cut from the top, even if you spend more in hosting than you made.

We want you to make games with CryENGINE 3 that people will want to play. We hope that your work will lead to a product you can commercialise. If this is the case, before you can sell your work or your game, you must seek a development license for CryENGINE 3. We'll offer a royalty-only license model for Independent Developers, where Crytek require only 20% of the developer's revenues from the commercial launch of their game.

[avelworldcreator]

Just checked their site seems its 20% of the revenues (not just box sales.) I bet the actual contract is written to make sure monthly fees and all IAP are included. By saying "revenue", they make sure they take their cut from the top, even if you spend more in hosting than you made.

Good catch. I'll pass it on.

Edit (from Skype):

[11:43:08 PM] Richard Robertson: How much EXACTLY is Crytek charging for use?
[11:43:41 PM] Richard Robertson: quote:
Just checked their site seems its 20% of the revenues (not just box sales.) I bet the actual contract is written to make sure monthly fees and all IAP are included. By saying "revenue", they make sure they take their cut from the top, even if you spend more in hosting than you made.
[11:43:51 PM] Richard Robertson: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6681.new.html
[11:44:18 PM] Nate Downes: revenues of the game itself, they cannot charge for F2P systems using add-ons
[11:44:24 PM] Nate Downes: already verified that
[11:44:30 PM] Richard Robertson: Ah.
[11:44:49 PM] Richard Robertson: So advertising revenue CAN be charged for?
[11:45:02 PM] Richard Robertson: And microsales?
[11:45:17 PM] Nate Downes: how are those the game itself?
[11:45:29 PM] Richard Robertson: Hmm.
[11:45:40 PM] Richard Robertson: Ok. Those aren't fees.
[11:45:53 PM] Richard Robertson: I thought we might charge a fee though.
[11:45:56 PM] Nate Downes: a monthly fee could be charged, yes
[11:46:14 PM] Richard Robertson: Which 20% is still acceptable on $15.00 USD.
[11:46:17 PM] Nate Downes: right
[11:46:28 PM] Nate Downes: but extra costume bits, character slots, etc, no

[Starsman]

Getting this thread a bit back on topic:

Antoher Mac alternative can be City of Steam (if you can get a beta key.) It's actually a web-browser MMO, but not a Flash one. It's actually done in Unity, that in turn is not runing a secondary emulation layer. The plugin is actually just running the full native engine in the browser (with few features disabled for security.)

The Steampunk theme also may be a nice departure from the perpetual fantasy mmo flod out there.

[Thunder Glove]

City of Steam is okay, but you need a two-button mouse to play it.  The game treats Control-clicks (and Command-clicks, for that matter) as left-clicking, so you can never change the camera angle unless a cutscene does it for you.  I played it for a half-hour or so and it was incredibly frustrating.

[Starsman]

City of Steam is okay, but you need a two-button mouse to play it.  The game treats Control-clicks (and Command-clicks, for that matter) as left-clicking, so you can never change the camera angle unless a cutscene does it for you.  I played it for a half-hour or so and it was incredibly frustrating.

Despite my love for macs, I hate the Apple mouse. Ah the nostlagia... back in the 90s I would carry a 2 button Kensington mouse to the computer lab I at school to use instead of the built in mouse they had...

...but isn't the Magic Mouse actually "2 button" that can detect left or right click based on what side you make the pressure on? (Don't know for sure because I went back to the  Apple store a day after my wife got me my iMac to return the mouse and get the big trackpad instead, use it only for OS gestures.)

Anyways, City of Steam is still in beta. May be a good idea to give them the feedback about allowing players to customize they key input to turn too.

[Neutron-Star]

Someone mentioned Freedom Force. I have always been intrigued by that game from a single player perspective.

I've looked around but can't find a Mac download. Steam seems to only have the PC version. But I'm not adept at game downloading. Has anyone seen a straight forward place to download FF for Mac?

Related thought. I'm curious about trying the wrapped version of STO and CO. But not sure if i shouldn't just try to duel boot.  Never bootcamped either but considering buying a cheap version of windows to try that. Any advice on which version: vista, xp, 7 or 8?

Thanks!

Regardless, I'd like to end up somewhere where there is a group of former CoHers, as I think they have similar expectations of fun and teaming. Not in the mood to start from scratch in a whole new community.

[Starsman]

Related thought. I'm curious about trying the wrapped version of STO and CO. But not sure if i shouldn't just try to duel boot.  Never bootcamped either but considering buying a cheap version of windows to try that. Any advice on which version: vista, xp, 7 or 8?

If you running Mountain Lion, the only alternative is Windows 7. Apple (that I know) has not updated bootcamp to officially support Win8 (it MAY work,) they killed support for WinXP with Lion and don't think they ever supported Vista.

I would try the wrapper first, though. Way cheaper and convenient if the computer ends up being able to handle it.

[RubiconX]

Just to update, I'm running CO with the STO wrapper and it's running fine. I'm still trying to figure CO out as the only mmo i've ever really been into was CoH and after 8 years it's hard to get my mind wrapped around another way of doing things.

On a side note Elder Scrolls looks really promising, I'm not into the fantasy stuff and have no clue on the ES lore but I'll definitely check this out. In the mean time I'll keep chugging away at CO.

[Xenos]

Here's my experience getting CO to run on a Mac (4+ year old MBP).

I used the free trial for Crossover (http://www.codeweavers.com/products/tosf/) and the Crosstie for Champions Online: Free for All (http://www.codeweavers.com/bin/c4p/8464). This still requires you to download the full game client first, and the link they give is the one mentioned previously on this thread and it's dial up slow. But you can actually get the full game client from the CO website (and they list a number of alternatives too): http://co.perfectworld.com/download . I think I used the Gamers Hell link and the 3GB took about 2 hrs. Not too bad.

After that the install was easy. There were a few hickups in the process, but basically ignoring them was the way to go. The Crosstie sets the game up NOT to be fullscreen, but that's an easy fix (http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=8464;forum=1;msg=100256).

All in all, pretty painless, alas...I still don't like the game. It's just feels too cartoony (and yes, I got rid of the "comic book" style outlines). I'll try it for a few more days...but I don't have much hope for it.

[dwturducken]

The whole notion of porting has always kind of bothered me, but I'm not far enough into learning (or, really, re-learning) how to program to have done anything really complex, yet, but shouldn't compilers take care of that? I'll have to look at my laptop, but both the BASIC and C++ compilers that I have had Mac versions available. I know there are engine issues, but, when you build the engine yourself, as in the case of CoH, can't you just copy the code to a text file, transfer it to the OS you want to "port" it to, and copy the code into that version of the compiler?

I'm asking for a friend.

[avelworldcreator]

The whole notion of porting has always kind of bothered me, but I'm not far enough into learning (or, really, re-learning) how to program to have done anything really complex, yet, but shouldn't compilers take care of that? I'll have to look at my laptop, but both the BASIC and C++ compilers that I have had Mac versions available. I know there are engine issues, but, when you build the engine yourself, as in the case of CoH, can't you just copy the code to a text file, transfer it to the OS you want to "port" it to, and copy the code into that version of the compiler?

I'm asking for a friend.

Some of the code is proprietary and you won't be able to get at the source to copy over.
And there are other issues as well. It starts getting really complicated, really fast.

[dwturducken]

I meant from a writing standpoint. I'm making a game, so I'm typing the code into an IDE. There are going to be syntax errors, so I compile and test, rinse and repeat, until those are all hammered out, then start the alpha testing, right?

I'm assuming that, throughout this process, there's a master "text file" of the code that can just be transferred over to the other machine and compiled in that version of the IDE or compiler.

Bear in mind, this is a completely naive and inexperienced viewpoint. I'm currently unable to shuffle an array and still be able to spit it back out in the original order along with the new order.

[therain93]

Someone mentioned Freedom Force. I have always been intrigued by that game from a single player perspective.

I've looked around but can't find a Mac download. Steam seems to only have the PC version. But I'm not adept at game downloading. Has anyone seen a straight forward place to download FF for Mac?

Related thought. I'm curious about trying the wrapped version of STO and CO. But not sure if i shouldn't just try to duel boot.  Never bootcamped either but considering buying a cheap version of windows to try that. Any advice on which version: vista, xp, 7 or 8?

Thanks!

Regardless, I'd like to end up somewhere where there is a group of former CoHers, as I think they have similar expectations of fun and teaming. Not in the mood to start from scratch in a whole new community.

Looks like you can get a cheapy version from Amazon for the Mac, although be wary of the OS requirements:  http://www.amazon.com/FREEDOM-FORCE-MAC-ONLY-Windows/dp/B000HWSKNK