Author Topic: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.  (Read 333227 times)

LadyVamp

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #720 on: December 31, 2013, 08:33:06 PM »
Ed Gruberman: "Yeah.  No disrespect or nothing, but like how long is this going to take?"
 
TonyV: "The resurrection of City of Heroes is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon."
 
Ed: "So like, what, an hour or so?"
 
TonyV: "No, no.  We have not even begun upon the path.  Ed Gruberman, you must learn patience."
 
Ed: "Yeah, yeah, patience.  How long will that take?"
 
TonyV: "Time has no meaning.  To a true student, a year is as a day."
 
Ed: "A year?!  I wanna go flying right now!  I got the cape!"

Let's hope Tony doesn't wear boots.   :)
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MWRuger

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #721 on: December 31, 2013, 10:44:35 PM »
I can wait. I will wait. But I appreciate the update.

I can handle the wait, the silence just kills me.
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Ohioknight

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #722 on: January 01, 2014, 12:17:26 AM »
If they're REALLY trying to attempt to recreate the ENTIRE server-side game... Good Lord!  That is an insane crapload of function and content.  Praetoria???  Ouroborous level adjustment missions??? Exemplar and Sidekicking function???

I had envisioned a much more modest server tool that would recreate most of the power functions, NPC functions, and would allow some straightforward mission generation -- maybe a few steps beyond Valience pre-alpha :)

Thanks for all that is being done -- and Tony thanks for the update.  Sorry to hear it isn't "sooner than you think" anymore but I'm sure the guys doing the work know the best course.
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Optimus Dex

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #723 on: January 01, 2014, 03:40:28 AM »
Just the thought of the COH being back is hearting.

Mouse-Man

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #724 on: January 01, 2014, 05:15:21 AM »
At this point, I'd be ecstatic with street mobs and a functioning radio...

I have no issue with street sweeping to 50.

Seriously, keep fightin' the fight... even unreleased the effort is appreciated.

Tahquitz

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #725 on: January 01, 2014, 07:41:41 AM »
Read TonyV's reply to the discussion over the last 13 months.  Fair to say that the discussion is over concerning the "if" part of things.

If I can get my hands on it when it's out, I'll give it a go.  The only thing I wish would be in SEGS is a persistent chat channel where those currently connected can come on and talk at the minimum... the non-working game elements bugs me, but the ability to meet, share costumes, have contests, and just chatting with folks was a fair portion of the time spent in-game for me.  If we get that back and costumes (even if it's a "at your own risk" feature where costumes are not saved on the server and chosen on every login) as people work on getting other systems up, speaking for myself at least it would be the most bloated and beloved IRC client that I can conceive of, and that would be plenty.  (I know doing that is a trap, as soon as that works, others would clamor for more so the temptation to not deliver that and instead wait until enough is available for people to chat AND do a bit more is fairly strong.) 

If I can't participate (not from legality, but in the short term my computers are having major issues that I'm too poor to fix at this particular moment), I'll follow what happens on the boards as best I can anyway.

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« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 08:17:47 AM by Tahquitz »
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Drauger9

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #726 on: January 01, 2014, 07:48:57 AM »
Happy B-day Tony and thanks for the reply.

As far as the super secret stuff... better late than never. LOL! (I haven't sleeped well the past few days, swing shifts sucks:P)


FatherXmas

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #727 on: January 01, 2014, 08:44:46 AM »
Ed Gruberman: "Yeah.  No disrespect or nothing, but like how long is this going to take?"
 
TonyV: "The resurrection of City of Heroes is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon."
 
Ed: "So like, what, an hour or so?"
 
TonyV: "No, no.  We have not even begun upon the path.  Ed Gruberman, you must learn patience."
 
Ed: "Yeah, yeah, patience.  How long will that take?"
 
TonyV: "Time has no meaning.  To a true student, a year is as a day."
 
Ed: "A year?!  I wanna go flying right now!  I got the cape!"

:)  +1
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Captain Electric

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #728 on: January 01, 2014, 11:31:19 AM »
Happy birthday Tony, and a happy new year to all. :)

I don't agree with all of Tony's points but I agree with the most important ones. I think the likelihood of a C&D is actually extremely strong; that is about the extent of my disagreement. But I think there is a buffer here--time itself. NCSoft as a company has changed over the years. By the time a community server leaves its closed alpha environment behind, NCSoft will have changed yet more. We can all hope that the change is advantageous for our cause.

I remember during the early days of the Earth and Beyond alpha, there was some talk within EA of making a sequel to Earth and Beyond (but just for the consoles, those slimy scalawags). During that time there were hits from EA on the community forums that were set up in anticipation of the community server. I remember that being a pretty scary topic. By that time we had adopted a "Say nice things about EA or don't say things about EA at all" policy, in light of individuals who probably would have been willing to flush the entire community server down the toilet if it meant one chance to troll/grief an EA executive. I like to think that policy had SOMETHING to do with never getting a C&D. (And thankfully the sequel never materialized either, but there had been a team for it, and a teaser trailer was even made.)

Earth and Beyond wasn't my first experience with a resurrected MMO, but I like to compare it to City of Heroes for a few reasons. Story arcs and contacts are central to progression, classes and power selections are similar to archetypes, and customization is at the heart of the game. It took the Earth and Beyond player-run server eight years to get to what it now calls its own "Live" stage. If I recall correctly, it took three or four years for the server to get to an open beta stage that was stable for hundreds of concurrent players and which had a lot of missions and other content. If CraZyboy is still reading around here maybe he can correct or verify. I know that the last few years of the beta were extremely feature complete, and I thought it was funny because my beta characters on the community server were six years old by the end of beta, which is longer than the game lasted under EA. :P

I think a game like City of Heroes is going to take years to rez. Three or four years minimum just to get to bare-bones alpha tests; I'd be more conservative but I know this community had/has some Tony Stark-level geniuses in it. Those alpha tests are going to be closed, mind you, so unless you hang around and stay involved, I think it will be years later before you hear anything solid. But that's not the only reason to keep hanging around. The people working on any kind of server are just people, not machines. I guarantee you they will work on it harder the more they think you care about their efforts.

Several years is a long time to pine for a video game, but that's why I've always said it's better to use these forums as a springboard for organizing gaming groups or teams for projects, talking about movies and comics, posting stupid funnies, not being a stranger. This forum isn't supposed to be a non-stop depressing funeral for City of Heroes. I've always believed this community was something special and that's coming from a guy who played his first MMO in 1997 (and many since). This is one of the best gaming communities that I've ever been a part of, right up there with Earth and Beyond and THQ-Relic's community. You don't throw something like that away just because a game shut down. That is incredibly wasteful. Don't do it.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 12:06:04 PM by Captain Electric »

Ohioknight

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #729 on: January 01, 2014, 01:56:36 PM »
Thanks, Cap!  Your account of the "Earth and Beyond" experience is especially appreciated for the perspective. 
It and ICON give me hope that the city will again return to full life. 

Next year in Paragon!
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Azrael

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #730 on: January 01, 2014, 03:24:57 PM »
[EDIT: Merging another set of unnecessary multi-posts. Further multi-posts will be deleted instead of merged. ~Agge]

At this point, I'd be ecstatic with street mobs and a functioning radio...

I have no issue with street sweeping to 50.

Seriously, keep fightin' the fight... even unreleased the effort is appreciated.

I know what you mean.  I used to love street hunting in Bricks and Steel and Talos inbetween missions.  I'd probably take that as an interim.  But it seems like the 'skunk project' is aiming a bit higher...

Azrael.

-------------

Cap provided an interesting insight into the battle to preserve a much loved game.  It will take some patience.  But this battle seems personal.  It's too good a game to sink without a trace.

Thanks for that, Cap.

Azrael.

-------------

We've already waited one year.  So another couple is fine to get to a beta stage.

That kind of puts a planets in alignment situation with the other community projects such as Titan and H&V...

...which will all emerge at the same time..?

It will be like a golden age of Hero Morgs.

Azrael.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 05:50:03 PM by Aggelakis »

CoyoteSeven

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #731 on: January 02, 2014, 02:09:00 AM »
But there are two HUGE differences between NCsoft and the RIAA and Apple: The RIAA and Apple have billions of dollars at their disposal, and more relevantly, the RIAA and Apple went after people who were impacting products on which they are still profiting handsomely.  You have to understand that even if NCsoft came after me with every legal gun they have and blew me out of the water with some out-of-this-world multi-million dollar judgment against me, I would immediately declare bankruptcy and start my financial life over.  Yeah, it would suck being poor as dirt for a few years while I worked to restore my footing, and yeah, they could temporarily make my life miserable, but really, it's not that bad and eventually, things would be okay again.  It wouldn't affect any non-me people at all, and they'd be paying out the wazoo to go after anyone else.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm quite grateful that you're willing to take their aggro and tank for us! And if it came to that then I would want to support you in any way I could. I'm just afraid of what might happen if they pick some other target instead. Like someone with a family to support. Just because their mom or dad logged into a private server or hosted one for their friends or something. NCSoft is smart; they might decide to go for the softest targets first.

Illusionss

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #732 on: January 04, 2014, 07:06:05 PM »
So, how long is a "long, long time"?  It's all relative.  I can wait "a long, long time" for City of Heroes to come back.  But, I am not getting any younger and I hope I can fly once again in the skies of Paragon City.

My plan: When City of Titans comes out, I will heavily invest my time in that. I will rebuild what I had in Cox, in that milieu as best I can; it will become my new online home.

When a CoX private server [that I am invited to join in....*hoping*] manifests, I will go there too, and will be there as long as it remains operative. I don't forget my roots. But I honestly think we are going to see CoT BEFORE we see a CoX private server, because that is a lot of work with some very janky code.

So, we will get our wings and capes back.... just probably elsewhere first. Meanwhile when the whim strikes me, there is Icon. Although it makes me tear up every time I log in, I still go there.

Just because.

Illusionss

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #733 on: January 04, 2014, 07:08:56 PM »
At this point, I'd be ecstatic with street mobs and a functioning radio...

I have no issue with street sweeping to 50.

I would log in every day, just to be able to fight mobs on the street and collect location badges. Seriously. I really don't have to be able to run the Magisterium trial from day 1.

I am willing for things to develop as they go, start with some little stuff and then update from there. But I know nothing about how all this works, maybe its easier to present a fait accompli right from the start.

Ohioknight

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #734 on: January 04, 2014, 10:17:02 PM »
.... But I honestly think we are going to see CoT BEFORE we see a CoX private server, because that is a lot of work with some very janky code.

If that's an optimistic view of COT, then I very sincerely hope you're right.  But last I heard they don't have an approach to MMO software except to build their own...  their chosen engine doesn't include a developed MMO.   And first thing they're getting the character creator going.  Which makes me think MMO development will be after (I'd be happy to learn I was wrong).

That sounds like a potential 6-year time sink to me.  MMO development has defeated professional shops before this.

Oh also, why does the jankyness of the code matter if they're reverse-engineering the functions?
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Tahquitz

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #735 on: January 05, 2014, 01:47:37 AM »
Those alpha tests are going to be closed, mind you, so unless you hang around and stay involved, I think it will be years later before you hear anything solid.

Still an optimist, sir. 

As disjointed as we've become in the last year, when the time comes to ask folks to give it a spin, there may be 8 forum readers that day (people still check in but at varying times, dates and through RL issues.)  If you're not asked to be in any betas, or the public release whizzes by as you learn of it months later, don't be hurt over it. 

Now let's see in X months, X years, if I can take my own advice.  ???
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Tahquitz

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #736 on: January 05, 2014, 01:52:42 AM »
If that's an optimistic view of COT, then I very sincerely hope you're right.  But last I heard they don't have an approach to MMO software except to build their own...  their chosen engine doesn't include a developed MMO.   And first thing they're getting the character creator going.  Which makes me think MMO development will be after (I'd be happy to learn I was wrong).

That sounds like a potential 6-year time sink to me.  MMO development has defeated professional shops before this.

Oh also, why does the jankyness of the code matter if they're reverse-engineering the functions?

From what I've heard from a developer at a past Meet and Greet, portions of City of Heroes code makes home audio cabling spaghetti knots in a hoarder's living room look like works of art.  (His words, not mine.  Unf., I can't remember who said it exactly.  I want to say Jay Doherty, but I was drunk at the time.  :-[)

Treating the client as a black box (input goes in, magic comes out that is up to you to figure out) isn't going to be terribly efficient in replicating the server, especially when the server-client relationship means that the client is expecting you to feed it magic instead of the other way around.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 01:59:29 AM by Tahquitz »
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malonkey1

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #737 on: January 05, 2014, 05:37:22 PM »
Treating the client as a black box (input goes in, magic comes out that is up to you to figure out) isn't going to be terribly efficient in replicating the server, especially when the server-client relationship means that the client is expecting you to feed it magic instead of the other way around.

Are you saying...We should treat it like a gray box?
BadWolf: "The point that JaguarX is trying to make, of course, is that City of Heroes is like a tree. And Google is like a Toyota...Corolla...? Which would make NCSoft a trespasser, shot by...um, Mister T...which is good, because diplomacy...?"

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The Fifth Horseman

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #738 on: January 05, 2014, 10:15:53 PM »
No such animal. it's either a white box - ie known functionality - or a black box: stuff comes in, MAGIC happens, different stuff comes out. If you know parts of it but not everything, it's a collection of boxes and black box itself as far as overall functioning goes.
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malonkey1

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #739 on: January 05, 2014, 10:59:55 PM »
No such animal. it's either a white box - ie known functionality - or a black box: stuff comes in, MAGIC happens, different stuff comes out. If you know parts of it but not everything, it's a collection of boxes and black box itself as far as overall functioning goes.

I was being facetious.
BadWolf: "The point that JaguarX is trying to make, of course, is that City of Heroes is like a tree. And Google is like a Toyota...Corolla...? Which would make NCSoft a trespasser, shot by...um, Mister T...which is good, because diplomacy...?"

The internet is full of Comedy Gold.