Author Topic: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.  (Read 333443 times)

Arcana

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #960 on: April 08, 2014, 04:28:38 AM »
Alright, dude.  We're not going to see eye to eye.  I'm not going to convince you.  You're not going to convince me.
That's almost never my intent in posting.  My intent is to post a valid logical argument for my posted position.  Long ago, I decided having goals beyond that on the internet is unproductive.

Felderburg

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #961 on: April 09, 2014, 03:18:07 PM »
The point to shared servers would be: that's what MMOs are.  I wish it was more interesting of an answer, but that's all.

That makes sense (as does the other stuff you posted, but I don't want to address it). I hadn't really thought about the nature of the "massively" part of MMOs as intrinsically tied to a shared server. There's no incentive for an MMO developer to make the game available to players who want to run private servers, because then there would be no incentive for said players to log in to the shared servers, and there goes your MMO. But I think that if you're a developer and all you want is a robust community - whether they play together or not - shared servers don't matter.

I think a cool thing to do would be to make a single player game, with a few characters to play through some select storylines that tie in to the MMO. Then the MMO allows any character, any mission to be played. So in CoH, I guess it would be more like a longer personal story you could play on CoH - for example, as a single player you could select Apex, Horus, or War Witch and play through the storylines from their comics. Then you go to the MMO, and you continue the story of your own character within Paragon City (most of the comic storylines take place as introductions to villain groups, so it would be cool to see how they re-emerged in Paragon City before you start the MMO's story). Gameplay, graphics, everything would be the same, but in single player you can only be one of the three characters and you only get whatever contacts / missions that would be made for the game.

Although more practically, with the current situation of a CoH MMO not existing anyways, private servers are the only way to go now, and there's no developers to incentivize playing on a shared server. I imagine that if something gets off the ground, there will be multiple private servers, and a few will rise to the top: a "standard" CoH, running the game as it was; and a few "modded" CoH versions, with particular players making the changes they want, and the most popular changes get played the most. Regardless, the community (such as is left) will still be robust.


Edit: A kind of cheap way to "incentivize" playing on a shared server is making the game have lots of group activities, that require other characters to complete. So on a private server, if someone doesn't have enough other players, they get NPCs to help out. The devs then make the AI really dumb, so it's all but impossible to complete these group tasks without other players.
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Arcana

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #962 on: April 09, 2014, 05:01:41 PM »
Edit: A kind of cheap way to "incentivize" playing on a shared server is making the game have lots of group activities, that require other characters to complete. So on a private server, if someone doesn't have enough other players, they get NPCs to help out. The devs then make the AI really dumb, so it's all but impossible to complete these group tasks without other players.
It sounds cheap, but fundamentally speaking the only advantage to playing on a shared server instead of a single player game is that there are more players.  Somehow, you need to make having lots of players around an advantage that doesn't appear cheap in order to make a successful MMO.  Or rather, not too obviously cheap.  WoW, for example, during its boom phase was as much a watercooler experience as an actual MMO.  Friends would play, get their friends to play, talk about the gameplay, and go play more game, whether they even played directly with each other or not.  For many people, that was their first real experience of being embedded in a social community of game players. 

You could argue that the raid-focus was cheap, except that those raids created the structure that encouraged cooperative guild play, which was also something that most people were not intimately familiar with and enjoyed doing (to a point).  It all seems old hat today, but delivering those kinds of unique experiences to players that couldn't get them any other way is part of the reason why you make a particular kind of game over another: to focus on what that kind of game can do that other games can't. 

Consider "turnstile" style instance missions which many MMOs have (CoH was not the first there by a longshot).  Its relatively casual, impromptu, cooperative multiplayer.  While that kind of gameplay is not unique to MMOs, its far easier to deliver it in MMOs than other kinds of games.  Most impromptu multiplayer extensions of single player games tend to be more competitive than cooperative, even if teamed.

To really deliver on the "private server based massively multiplayer" concept, you'd need that times a hundred, to make it both worthwhile to deliver the single player experience but still have a reasonable hook to support the massively multiplayer experience.

shadeovblack

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #963 on: April 11, 2014, 03:29:06 AM »
I think an MMO is like a club, I don't go to the club for the booze or the music, I can get both at home cheaper and better. Similarly I don't play MMOs for the gameplay, I can find a singleplayer game that does it just as well without the subscription or cash shop. I go to an MMO for the same reason I go to a club, to see and be seen. The whole point is visibilty not interaction. Even if I'm not talking, dancing, or drinking with all the people in the club, they know I'm there, they see my clothes and my car, and my moves. and even when I'm playing solo, other people in the MMO see my costume and powersets and skills. See and be seen. And that is what I loved most about City Of Heroes, it did that wonderfully! I was always working on how my character worked and looked, and checking out other peoples to.

I understand not everyone feels this way, but I do.

Ohioknight

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #964 on: April 11, 2014, 12:08:27 PM »
Similarly I don't play MMOs for the gameplay, I can find a singleplayer game that does it just as well without the subscription or cash shop.

Can someone please direct me to a non-MMO singleplayer game that lets me create custom Superheroes and fight crime?   (yeah, I know, there aren't any).
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Thunder Glove

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #965 on: April 11, 2014, 01:00:09 PM »
I played CoH mostly for the gameplay, but, admittedly, the "look at me!" factor was there. I liked being able to say "This is my character.  I designed him (or her).  Nobody else looks like him (or her)."

I think I've said this before, but CoH reminded me of Superfriends, and I mean that in the best possible way.   While some members of the Superfriends were clearly more powerful than others, each one contributed as much to the story as any other, and the characters had equal respect for each other regardless of their individual powers (or lack of them).

And so it was at CoH.  In a team, the Inv/SS Tanker was not necessarily going to outshine the SJ/Will Stalker or the Grav/FF Controller.  All played their part, and all were important to the team.  And each one had their own unique look, completely different even from other Inv/SS Tankers, SJ/Will Stalkers, and Grav/FF Controllers.

I really miss that.

Nitekilla

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #966 on: April 11, 2014, 04:51:29 PM »
Can someone please direct me to a non-MMO singleplayer game that lets me create custom Superheroes and fight crime?   (yeah, I know, there aren't any).

In general terms, gameplay for single player blows away MMO's.  For Super Heroe Crime Fighting, Batman Arkham City was really cool and I almost felt like I was playing CoH again :)

Arcana

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #967 on: April 11, 2014, 06:13:08 PM »
Can someone please direct me to a non-MMO singleplayer game that lets me create custom Superheroes and fight crime?   (yeah, I know, there aren't any).
The closest thing I can think of to that would be Freedom Force, assuming you were willing to plug into the modding community.  The original game did not have a character customizer, but I know the modding community at one time had mods to add all sorts of new characters and abilities to the game.  I'm not an expert at FF modding, so YMMV.

A fully character customizable Infamous is probably the closest thing to what you're looking for, except that doesn't currently exist.

Aggelakis

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #968 on: April 12, 2014, 03:20:10 AM »
Saints Row IV, except you're not very superhero-y... you are, however, pretty much a metahuman. You can do some ridiculous shit in that game (like playing pingpong with your body and traffic).
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Kriiden

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #969 on: April 12, 2014, 06:54:39 AM »
Here's hoping some sort of server will come out before the release of City of Titans. (City of Heroes would make the wait so much better...)

Ohioknight

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #970 on: April 12, 2014, 02:18:06 PM »
Saints Row IV, except you're not very superhero-y... you are, however, pretty much a metahuman. You can do some ridiculous pancake in that game (like playing pingpong with your body and traffic).

I saw a video I loved reviewing GTA IV with the Iron Man mods... the narrator talking about how he was "fighting crime" ("I'm sure that guy I blew up was a criminal")  and how the police would show up to send him "thank you" bullets.... it's not really the same
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HeatSpike1

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #971 on: April 13, 2014, 11:18:47 PM »
Damn I miss this game

Harpospoke

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #972 on: April 16, 2014, 05:53:41 AM »
Automated driving is less about judgment and more about technical capability.  It is extremely rare for a human driver to be given a life or death choice requiring the exercise of human judgment to perform the proper maneuver.  It is far more likely that a human drive is given a situation requiring extraordinary action from a limited number of options, often just one: breaking suddenly to avoid a collision for example.  And even more likely is simply executing the normal act of driving in a straight line within the traffic lane without losing concentration or attention span and while not physically or mentally impaired.  I would not expect a computer to correctly judge what critical option to take when confronted with a dangerous situation with limited information and no obvious logical options.  But I don't expect a human being to do so either: I expect the human to do the wrong thing almost every time in that situation, and statistically they do not disappoint me.
Best part?   We wouldn't have to worry about a computer having to make those critical decisions very often because there wouldn't be stupid people in the other cars to cause those dangerous situations.   8)

Harpospoke

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #973 on: April 16, 2014, 05:56:37 AM »
If it is proven that driverless Cars reduce crashes in a significant way mass Insurance companies -will- offer discounts for it because it will save them money in the long run, say Crashes are reduced by 10% that gives the insurance companies the ability to reduce the price by 5% and pocket an extra 5% of profit.
Just thought of something else.   When auto accidents approach zero...why would we need insurance companies?

Something tells me the insurance companies are going to be lobbying hard against this one.

Ohioknight

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #974 on: April 16, 2014, 12:16:33 PM »
Just thought of something else.   When auto accidents approach zero...why would we need insurance companies?

Something tells me the insurance companies are going to be lobbying hard against this one.

Accidents APPROACHING zero is the ideal for insurance companies.  Your house rarely crashes into anybody, but you need homeowner's insurance anyway.  Insurance rates would be a LOT lower however and I promise you that nobody will lobby for this harder than the insurance industry.

Also, UNTIL the insurance lobby successfully outlaws manually driven cars (which won't happen in my lifetime) there will still be plenty of drunken idiots on the road killing people.
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Codewalker

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #975 on: April 16, 2014, 02:21:37 PM »
Normally I'm anti-nanny state, but I wouldn't mind seeing a law that if you get caught drinking and driving, you are banned from driving in manual mode and can only use computer-driven cars.

Arcana

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #976 on: April 16, 2014, 08:00:20 PM »
Just thought of something else.   When auto accidents approach zero...why would we need insurance companies?

Something tells me the insurance companies are going to be lobbying hard against this one.
I suspect they won't in general.  First, it will take decades for the technology to have a major impact on insurance companies.  Second, the insurance industry would likely shift from making the bulk of their auto industry revenue from insuring individual drivers to providing product liability insurance to auto manufacturers.  And third, the insurance industry does not have a history, so far as I'm aware, of opposing safety standards in industries they insure simply to protect profits.  That's ghoulish even by actuarial standards.

LadyVamp

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #977 on: April 17, 2014, 12:22:03 AM »
Just thought of something else.   When auto accidents approach zero...why would we need insurance companies?

Something tells me the insurance companies are going to be lobbying hard against this one.

I would not be surprised to see law enforcement against self driving cars.  The cars aren't likely to speed, get into accidents, run red lights/stop signs, park illegally, and the various other things which human drivers do.  Less of those means less need for police.
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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #978 on: April 17, 2014, 01:31:13 AM »
I would not be surprised to see law enforcement against self driving cars.  The cars aren't likely to speed, get into accidents, run red lights/stop signs, park illegally, and the various other things which human drivers do.  Less of those means less need for police.
There will always be a need for police. Fewer traffic violations won't lessen that by much, if at all.
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JanessaVR

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #979 on: April 17, 2014, 01:52:20 AM »
Normally I'm anti-nanny state, but I wouldn't mind seeing a law that if you get caught drinking and driving, you are banned from driving in manual mode and can only use computer-driven cars.
I am, too, but I could also live with that.  As a matter of fact, if your car can essentially become your "designated driver," well then, you could go out and drink as much as you wanted without ever having to worry about a DUI (unless of course you were so drunk you actually tried to drive manually).   ;)