Author Topic: Costume viewer / editor utility.  (Read 33372 times)

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2012, 09:44:52 PM »
Are you asking if it's possible to play the game through and or using demo files?

By sending the demofile/s live, realtime commands?

Highly unlikely, if not entirely impossible.

Not to "play" the game, just for the purposes of placing an NPC so you can fly around it and look at the model. You can change costumes in demos so it might also work as a costume editor.

Arachnion

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2012, 10:09:34 PM »
Not to "play" the game, just for the purposes of placing an NPC so you can fly around it and look at the model. You can change costumes in demos so it might also work as a costume editor.

Oh!

That is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE!

Easiest way to do it: Swap out your player model for an NPC's.


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Lady Luck

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2012, 11:38:05 PM »
Thank you so much for this thread!
I had been asking for a standalone character creator for ages and had even attempted to look for the Korean one without much luck.
Now I can "play dolls", as my SG used to call it, for as long as I want.
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But then NCSoft took it away :(

Arachnion

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2012, 11:54:09 PM »
Not to "play" the game, just for the purposes of placing an NPC so you can fly around it and look at the model. You can change costumes in demos so it might also work as a costume editor.

On another note, you could possibly replace an enemy NPC on the map with a model you want.

Then you can use the free camera mode to look at it.

If you feel like editing the demo costume code, sure, why not. Impromptu, dirty, costume editor.
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Xieveral

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2012, 12:46:42 AM »
Thanks so much for getting all this info together!  ;D ;D ;D

I'm having a problem though, the list of costume options does not seem to want to scroll. Did I mess something up when changing language or is that a common problem? Any way to remedy that?

Also is there a way to make it windowed?
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The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2012, 01:04:15 AM »
Common problem. Left/right arrows allow you to cycle, try that.
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djonehitwonder

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2012, 01:30:20 AM »
If anyone figures out how get the newer costume items into the CCC or creates a new, updated version of it, please let me know.  I'm working on a project to recreate costume pieces from the game, and if I could see each piece individually, that would be extremely helpful.  Or if anyone knows of a way/place that has individual piece pics, that would be awesome.  I'm also requesting people send me any screenshots of their costumes, and will try to figure out the individual pieces from those.  More details of this project are on my blog, but beware, the first part of the post is about my experiences on the last day.  I cried writing it, so you may cry reading it.  But the info on my project is at the end. https://rewondered.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/reminiscing-it-wasnt-just-a-game/

Profit

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2012, 01:35:54 AM »
You should use a pigg viewer and just dive through the pigg files, you should be able to find all the costume pieces that way.

Adrenalin

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2012, 03:21:03 AM »
I read somewhere that an emulator for just the costume creating portion of the game would be a lot easier to build than the one for maps. Do we know of anyone that could attempt this? I know a full emulator is being worked on, but just a "login" emulator, so to speak, would allow us to play dress up until such a time as the full thing was ready, and would give us access to all the costume pieces.


Glass Goblin

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2012, 04:06:00 AM »
I read somewhere that an emulator for just the costume creating portion of the game would be a lot easier to build than the one for maps. Do we know of anyone that could attempt this? I know a full emulator is being worked on, but just a "login" emulator, so to speak, would allow us to play dress up until such a time as the full thing was ready, and would give us access to all the costume pieces.

For a lot of people, just having the ability to load their characters' old costumes and play with new ones would be amazing. There are a lot of brilliant people among the Paragon Diaspora, so I am reasonably confident that someone will put something together.

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2012, 09:14:52 AM »
I read somewhere that an emulator for just the costume creating portion of the game would be a lot easier to build than the one for maps. Do we know of anyone that could attempt this?
Correction: Do we know anyone who both could AND can devote the neccessary time to attempt this?
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

mikoroshi

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2012, 09:43:01 AM »
Do any of the actual former Paragon devs frequent this site, that could offer any hints on how to accomplish the creation of a standalone creator app?

I'm positive they can't provide detail, let alone make it, due to likely terms in their severance papers--but a handy hint like "try checking out information about XX function in YY programming language" might make all the difference.
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redgiant

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2012, 10:44:01 AM »
I have wondered if it would be possible to use demo playback to accomplish something like this. You know... send 'fake' demo data to the client in playback mode, as if the demo commands are coming from a realtime source, instead of a file? It'd be a little bit like a dummy server feeding packets to it, but since we already know so much about demofiles, would take a lot less time to develop (if it's possible at all).

While looking at the .cohdemo format and commands available while writing some simple code to inject a Sentinel+ character definition into a .cohdemo, I figured some stuff out in passing.

The client has a central scene engine that handles all the rendering and GPU interaction. It has a scene driver API in code (and likely a script system wrapping that for their own ease of use) that you can tell it to do things like: load file resources, instantiate model instances, position and move objects, control the camera view, perform special effects and manuever sequences, etc.

Many of the scene-defining commands are serialized as the demorecord feature and .cohdemo format, limited in some important ways:

- .cohdemo commands are only read once and used to then drive the scene engine without further input (timing-related delays are inbred in the command arguments where they felt they needed it, which affects how/when they internally drive the scene, but you can't further touch it)
- only the subset of what they wanted to expose to the public is part of the format
- nothing outside general scene setup (UI windows, character inventory/enhancements, collision detection, targeting, los, determining hits/dmg, etc)

So while the commands supported by .cohdemo files are translated by them into the same scene driving vocabulary, (a) you cannot issue those commands at-will because you can't talk directly to the scene engine (via code or script), and (b) you have no access to all the other upstream gameplay logic that they employ to determine those resolved effects they then drive the scene with - so you couldn't really "play the game" just via those files even if they let you get past (a).

SUMMARY
The .cohdemo is the serialized subset of the final scene update pipeline commands just for the purpose of faithfully rendering the same scene again later (well most things but not all). All the gameplay logic employed by client or server to arrive at those updates is far upstream from what you have access to.

It's like the difference between 3d vector source and the final raster image. We only get to see the final raster image pixels, not all the smart inputs that led to them.

djonehitwonder

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2012, 01:37:55 PM »
You should use a pigg viewer and just dive through the pigg files, you should be able to find all the costume pieces that way.

All I see in the pigg viewer is a bunch of numbers I have no idea how to interpret.  I found something that said to export them as bmp files but they're just flat, so that's not helpful.  I need something that shows the pieces in 3D, so I can see how they fit on a body.

I don't know anything about coding or programming or anything like that, I just want to see pictures. :P  If I'm doing something wrong, and there is a way to see actual 3D pictures with the pigg viewer, can someone please give instructions?  Thanks! :)

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2012, 03:07:40 PM »
3D graphics for dummies, lesson number one. ;) A 3D model you see in the game is comprised of at least two basic elements:
* The mesh, which describes the model's geometry.
* The texture, which is placed over the mesh to provide the actual visuals.
This is not going into details such as skeletons, animation, bumpmaps, lightmaps and so on.

What you are exporting are the textures. I don't know if anyone managed to crack the mesh format yet.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 03:18:42 PM by The Fifth Horseman »
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

themamboman

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2012, 04:18:30 PM »
I don't believe so.  The CCC was released well before there was a Mac version of the game itself, so probably not.  Assuming you're not set up for dual-booting, you could probably just use a Windows emulator of some sort to run it.  *shrug*

Already looked into that 2 months ago.  Using a processviewer, it shows that the client completely reads in the demo file and doesn't even start processing it until after the file read is complete.

Spoonfeeding demo commands to it would mean it would never start rendering.  If it wasn't that way, I'd already have made a demo-server injecting commands into the process space of the client.

EDIT:  D'oh!  Looks like others already explained it in some detail.  Would have been nice to use the viewer as a renderer without a server...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 04:23:49 PM by themamboman »

themamboman

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2012, 04:25:40 PM »
3D graphics for dummies, lesson number one. ;) A 3D model you see in the game is comprised of at least two basic elements:
* The mesh, which describes the model's geometry.
* The texture, which is placed over the mesh to provide the actual visuals.
This is not going into details such as skeletons, animation, bumpmaps, lightmaps and so on.

What you are exporting are the textures. I don't know if anyone managed to crack the mesh format yet.

Someone used OGLE and another tool to pull out the 3d meshes from the OpenGL subsystem and used those to have a 3d printer sculpt models from the data.  It was a big thread on the official boards.  I had problems with it myself and didn't have time to get back to it.  If anyone can contact Arcana, I think they could find out more.

Arachnion

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2012, 05:44:41 PM »
I read somewhere that an emulator for just the costume creating portion of the game would be a lot easier to build than the one for maps.

Do you mean a Map Viewer?

If so, using the free camera mode (F2 key while a demo is running) in demorecords is the best we'll get regarding one (a map viewer), I believe.

Since you can edit the .cohdemo code to view nearly every map the game has.... use WASD and your right mouse button to navigate the free view.

I know demo files eventually end, but I have a launcher program that keeps mine running infinitely/forever. I'll upload it if you want.
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Waiting for an invitation to arrive
Goin' to a party where no one's still alive

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2012, 05:46:58 PM »
I've started looking into what the .bin files (in bin.pigg) contain. A replacement of costumes.bin seems to have been integral to the previous CCC update.

Already noting that the slots have changed and not everything may be compatible.
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

Somewhere beyond time and space, if you look hard you might find a flash of silver trailing crimson: a lone lost Spartan on his way home.

Arachnion

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Re: Costume viewer / editor utility.
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2012, 05:50:53 PM »
I've started looking into what the .bin files (in bin.pigg) contain. A replacement of costumes.bin seems to have been integral to the previous CCC update.

Already noting that the slots have changed and not everything may be compatible.

Yeah, I have a strong feeling the piggs hold many secrets.

Figuratively and literally.

 :D
I'm all dressed up with nowhere to go
Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder

Waiting for an invitation to arrive
Goin' to a party where no one's still alive