Author Topic: City of Heroes 2  (Read 28393 times)

JediWar

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City of Heroes 2
« on: November 24, 2012, 12:25:47 AM »
Okay, someone please forgive me here, I feel like I'm being a complete moron asking this, but after a little searching through backlog and topics that I get a "warning: do not post here, topic is old. Start a new one" I finally decided to bite down on my ignorance and declare that the only stupid question is the question not asked. This is NOT to be confused with the "New City of Heroes" thread, which is also a hot topic right now. This has nothing to do with that.

Some time back, near the start of 2012 I think, I heard rumors that NCsoft had purchased up all the rights to "City of Heroes 2". The idea at the time being that it would be possible that NCsoft was going to make a sequel to their popular and profitable City of Heroes, which was for an MMO, getting kinda old and outdated. The engine wasn't perfect, the graphics even after being revamped were only keeping up with modern games, etc.

So, I'm still possibly in denial here, but am I the only one hoping that there IS a City of Heroes 2 in the works?

First of all, while I may be in denial, I'm fully aware that NCsoft has made some... let's say questionable motions... if that indeed was their plan. Laying off the developers and giving the current player base this kind of treatment is generally bad form all around. It's possible they weren't certain that the sequel could be produced, and they certainly couldn't activate it without ending City of Heroes "1" anyway. Not to mention that there should have been far more warning than this shut down which, despite being three months warning, still felt very sudden and forced in my opinion. So, yes, it's more likely that they simply aren't going to produce one, and the copy rights are there simply to sit in all possible versions of their IP.

This, quite frankly, looks foolish to me. The super hero genre MMO market isn't exactly saturated, and a strong contender could probably make good profit(better than a fantasy MMO I'd think). City of Heroes has brand recognition and a loyal(if perhaps not huge enough) fan base to give you a starter, and if the game is good new arrivals will bring profit. Just sitting on resources seems like a bad move when they could be making you profit. Unless I'm missing something important here.

Now, before I ramble on more, I think I'll close by repeating myself: Despite all appearances, there may be a City of Heroes 2 somewhere in production by NCsoft, and even if there is not, I would like there to be one(by NCsoft or otherwise). Is there any way that this can be helped along? Could I at least have news on the subject and confirmation/denial of these rumors of a City of Heroes 2 copyright purchase?

Short of "Plan Z" of course, which as I understand it is... not a City of Heroes 2 and can not reuse existing City of Heroes IP, code, or non-public domain resources. I intend to do a bit more looking into what Plan Z is, since I admit that I don't quite fully understand it at the moment(yes, even after reading the FAQs). To be frank, I'd rather we not NEED a Plan Z...

downix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 12:28:08 AM »
I'm the tech lead on Plan Z, and I'd rather we not need a Plan Z. But frankly, without Paragon Studios, any CoH2 will be a CoH in name only.

Jetfire99

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 12:31:38 AM »
If they made a COH 2 without Paragon it's just a body stealer wearing our world's skin. Nothing more. A wizzend grind hell husk really.

Lily Barclay

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 12:32:25 AM »
It was my understanding that NCSoft wanted Paragon to make CoH 2, but then nixed it for the super sekrit project. If they were developing CoH 2, they wouldn't have shut down paragon. End of story. It's just a rumor.

JaguarX

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 12:45:58 AM »
If they made a COH 2 without Paragon it's just a body stealer wearing our world's skin. Nothing more. A wizzend grind hell husk really.

might be what they up to. WoW with super hero skin that is to make every american gamer scramble to it and make them 10s of millions a quarter while becoming king of the hill of the MMO world.

At least in their minds might be how it supposed to work out if there is some coh 2 in the works. But they probably figured our group dont like grind and decided to dispose of us so we would be out the way, so they thought.

but I havea feeling if they do make a game of sort, it probably wont be called COH 2 and or they might use pieces of the IP in various other future projects.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 12:51:34 AM by JaguarX »

downix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 12:46:58 AM »
It was my understanding that NCSoft wanted Paragon to make CoH 2, but then nixed it for the super sekrit project. If they were developing CoH 2, they wouldn't have shut down paragon. End of story. It's just a rumor.
Backwards, Paragon wanted to do CoH2, it was NCSoft who said no.

JediWar

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 01:00:01 AM »
Quote
But frankly, without Paragon Studios, any CoH2 will be a CoH in name only.

I... semantically... disagree with that statement. Keeping in mind that it's entirely semantics here, but Paragon Studios is meaningless. It wasn't even a part of City of Heroes during the early years of the game. The important part is the people who worked for Paragon Studios and the relationships they had that was passed on to City of Heroes. I also believe that no one member of the Paragon Studios team is beyond replacement. It hurt to see Jack Emmert go, but Matt Miller took the reigns and, in my opinion, made improvements. It's the group of people and the spirit of community, not the name of the studio, that's important.

Laying off all of Paragon Studios is the most major sign that there will be no City of Heroes 2(or City of Heroes "1" obviously), but in my mind it is not definitive proof(again, I may just be in denial). The studio is gone, but the people are still alive, and can be hired by or even create another studio. I really hope that they ARE hired by someone who can put to use their talents and passions. For all I know some of them have have been hired, shuffled into a different division of NCsoft that is working on a project that NCsoft isn't ready to disclose yet. A project that may be City of Heroes 2(though highly doubtful given NCsofts statements and actions, I readily admit).

I really hate to think that they've been out of work longer than I have(I was laid off just last month and looking through job prospects for a character animator is... depressing).

LuchRi

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 01:25:37 AM »
The way I see it CoH was bigger than any studio, or individual. It was developed before WoW colored everything for every MMO afterwards (at least in our market) and everything form the mechanics to the story to the community was unique in part because of that. NCsoft probably will not make a CoH2, but if anyone does then I can all but promise you it would have a chance if the people making it are passionate about the game. If they are willing to put the same love and care and devotion into the craft that we saw from paragon then it will be a game worth playing.

I can understand why people are apprehensive. Not everyone has that kind of love or passion for a craft. It is easy to assume that any new game would be shucked off to just some random faceless 'new guys'. But even if they sell it, even if CoH2 gets made with few or none of the people who were involved before I truely think it could have the same spirit, the same community and the same unimaginable devotion we saw before.

I mean honestly, how many other MMOs come out with a new power set every month?

Victoria Victrix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 02:02:54 AM »
Paragon Studios, at the time of my visit, was working on the initial proposal for CoH2.  I got to see some spiffy concept art.  NCSoft then told them in no uncertain terms that they were not to work on it.  They then got to work on the Secret Project (there were actually two) and were working on both at the time of shutdown.

The rights to CoH2 go with the IP/code/customer data of CoH should there be a buyer.
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JediWar

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 02:31:37 AM »
And this "Secret Project(s)" will never see the light of day because the studio who was working on it has been shut down.

. . . and since NCsoft refuses to SELL, there will be no buyer, thus it's not possible for anyone to have the rights to CoH2, the IP, the code, or even these Secret Projects.

Unless of course someone from Paragon Studios(or better yet NCsoft) would care to leak the behind the scenes information and explain things.

Well... thanks for answering to the best of public knowledge at least. At least my question wasn't misplaced.

Osborn

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2012, 03:04:52 AM »
Okay, someone please forgive me here, I feel like I'm being a complete moron asking this, but after a little searching through backlog and topics that I get a "warning: do not post here, topic is old. Start a new one" I finally decided to bite down on my ignorance and declare that the only stupid question is the question not asked. This is NOT to be confused with the "New City of Heroes" thread, which is also a hot topic right now. This has nothing to do with that.

Some time back, near the start of 2012 I think, I heard rumors that NCsoft had purchased up all the rights to "City of Heroes 2". The idea at the time being that it would be possible that NCsoft was going to make a sequel to their popular and profitable City of Heroes, which was for an MMO, getting kinda old and outdated. The engine wasn't perfect, the graphics even after being revamped were only keeping up with modern games, etc.

So, I'm still possibly in denial here, but am I the only one hoping that there IS a City of Heroes 2 in the works?

First of all, while I may be in denial, I'm fully aware that NCsoft has made some... let's say questionable motions... if that indeed was their plan. Laying off the developers and giving the current player base this kind of treatment is generally bad form all around. It's possible they weren't certain that the sequel could be produced, and they certainly couldn't activate it without ending City of Heroes "1" anyway. Not to mention that there should have been far more warning than this shut down which, despite being three months warning, still felt very sudden and forced in my opinion. So, yes, it's more likely that they simply aren't going to produce one, and the copy rights are there simply to sit in all possible versions of their IP.

This, quite frankly, looks foolish to me. The super hero genre MMO market isn't exactly saturated, and a strong contender could probably make good profit(better than a fantasy MMO I'd think). City of Heroes has brand recognition and a loyal(if perhaps not huge enough) fan base to give you a starter, and if the game is good new arrivals will bring profit. Just sitting on resources seems like a bad move when they could be making you profit. Unless I'm missing something important here.

Now, before I ramble on more, I think I'll close by repeating myself: Despite all appearances, there may be a City of Heroes 2 somewhere in production by NCsoft, and even if there is not, I would like there to be one(by NCsoft or otherwise). Is there any way that this can be helped along? Could I at least have news on the subject and confirmation/denial of these rumors of a City of Heroes 2 copyright purchase?

Short of "Plan Z" of course, which as I understand it is... not a City of Heroes 2 and can not reuse existing City of Heroes IP, code, or non-public domain resources. I intend to do a bit more looking into what Plan Z is, since I admit that I don't quite fully understand it at the moment(yes, even after reading the FAQs). To be frank, I'd rather we not NEED a Plan Z...

It would be monumentally stupid of them to close CoH in the absolutely clownish way they have and drive away customers then wait until the close date on November 30th to announce CoH 2, and more importantly fire all of Paragon Studios destroying their development chain, so I wouldn't put a lot of my hopes in this happening. And if it did, with NCSoft involved but not Paragon Studios, I'm not even sure they'd get the game right.

If somebody buys the IP they might make something like this, but the chances of NCSoft doing so is kind of ridiculously tiny.

This would be like if Wal-Mart fired all their associates and set their stores on fire as a method if introducing a new improved meat department. I mean I guess it's not 'impossible', but... it seems highly unlikely.

I'm sorry if that seemed mean or dampened your hopes.

Lily Barclay

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 05:56:38 AM »
Backwards, Paragon wanted to do CoH2, it was NCSoft who said no.

That's what I meant.  They nixed = NCSoft nixed it.  Wasn't sure who originally proposed the project, my bad. 

JediWar

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2012, 08:48:43 AM »
It would be monumentally stupid of them to close CoH in the absolutely clownish way they have and drive away customers then wait until the close date on November 30th to announce CoH 2, and more importantly fire all of Paragon Studios destroying their development chain, so I wouldn't put a lot of my hopes in this happening. And if it did, with NCSoft involved but not Paragon Studios, I'm not even sure they'd get the game right.

I quite agree that such a move would be monumentally stupid. Though I'd like to point out that NCsoft isn't known for making the best of business choices, and additionally I'm a little fuzzy on what it means by "fire all of Paragon Studios". I was under the impression the studio was dissolved, but the employees were not "fired" but "laid off" or "downsized"(narrow distinction I'll admit, but being fired means that it was somehow your fault you are without a job. Being laid off means that it was the fault of the company you worked for, you did good work, they're just not doing that anymore), and could have been folded into another studio. I'd like to hope they've found work in another studio by now in fact. I don't have any information on the individuals that made up Paragon Studios however, or what their job situation is at this moment.

Now, in BEST case scenario, that means that most of the Paragon Studios employees just transferred to a different studio where they could work on the City of Heroes 2. The best case almost certainly didn't happen, but some creative bookkeeping could be taking place that I don't know about, which is why I brought this question up here. I don't know what's happening in NCsofts mind. I wanted to know if anyone else here had a better insight, since most people here seem better informed than I.

Quote
This would be like if Wal-Mart fired all their associates and set their stores on fire as a method if introducing a new improved meat department. I mean I guess it's not 'impossible', but... it seems highly unlikely.

A better analogy would be that if Wal-Mart fired all of their associates and set their store on fire and then after the fire had died down admitted that a new store that was being built(in secret) five blocks away. Unlikely, wasteful, and foolish, but not HIGHLY unlikely.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 08:54:25 AM »
The 60 of the 80ish Paragon Studios people have gotten jobs at my last hearing, but they all scattered to different places and a couple aren't even in gaming.
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redgiant

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2012, 10:35:58 AM »
No company would disband the kind of person-decades of proven expertise in designing, coding, testing and running a major complex MMOlike this, unless they knew there was zero chance of utilizing their talents for an IP sequel. You would lose years of real-time in getting another project to market.

It really is criminal to disband a talent pool like PS, it was one of the best on Earth. Not only could they have made CoH2, they could probably make anything (although their hearts might not be in it as much). Personally, I had a fantasy that I gave PS $10 million and said "Call me when DAoC 2 is done ... the right way!"

I know from being a dev for 30 years that the nostalgia and tears we as players are having are one facet of losing CoH. Imagine what the devs who worked forever on this and know everything ever put into it on the inside, from art to features as well as being players too. Someone at PS designed the pink sprinkle texture for the Drenched Donuts sign, someone coded the laser lights in Pocket D, and someone recalls when they planted specific trees or erected buildings and why. A dev excitedly calling over others to look at his cool new powerset he'd been working on for days. Inside jokes we'll never even know about and I am certain that it ripped 80 hearts out when this happened.

Technerdoc

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2012, 10:37:09 AM »
Even when a City of Heroes 2 is in develpment from an other studio then it will be a different game, but I don't think that NC-Soft is that stupid. Guild Wars 1 is also still running, they can't close it when they still want to sell part 2 and here it's the same. You want the community for part 2, so you can't close their game fire the entire stuff and then you want that the people still playing a World of Warcraft like City of Heroes 2 from an other studio? This is not working and I think NC-Soft is clever enough to know this.

My only hope was that an other publisher crap the Paragon Studios, something like "We can't have the City of Heroes IP, so make us a new game", but now with the entire team gone in the wind, I give up this hope as well.

I think our only way is Plan Z right now.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 10:51:14 AM by Technerdoc »

Lord Xoddam

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2012, 03:35:04 PM »
I remember rumors of a CoH 2 in the works by Cryptic Studios back in '07. It was pondered and talked about on and off for a couple of years all the building anticipation and worries about what would happen to our CoH. Would it be an expantion to the existing game or would it be its own game? Then the day finally came and it was released with the name Champions Online. City of Heroes players felt like they got slapped in the face. Anyone else remember that?

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2012, 04:47:48 PM »
Studios will often buy rights to things with little or no intent of actually making them - just for an "in case" scenario. When Paragon purchased the city of heroes 2 domain name and trademarks they did so just to avoid having to buy them from someone else in the event that the game ever was made. An online game hosted on a server with regular updates has no inherent need to have a sequel - the game is always refreshing. The only purpose would be to rewrite the main code but there was really no need to do that.

They also optioned movie, television, and other rights but again I wouldn't ever get excited about those possibilities either - it's just something companies do to prepare for potential future projects.


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ohms

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 07:34:56 PM »
Nate Van Dyke posted some CoH2 concept art on his blog back in 2008. The post soon got deleted but I snagged copies of the pictures like this one:


Sajaana

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2012, 01:12:41 AM »
I wouldn't put it outside of the realm of possibility.

To me, the closing of Paragon Studios doesn't make the launching of a CoH 2 less likely.  Given the recent trends of many Asian companies to repatriate their workforces, it could be that they'd rather have future titles developed on home soil.

If this was their intent, to develop a sucessor to CoH in Korea, it would make sense to keep the plan under wraps until they decomission Paragon, specifically because it would cause a lot of consternation.  After all, it was developed by American development houses (Cryptic and Paragon) for the American market.

But a whole lot has happened in the world economy in the last few years.  Good jobs were lost and there has been a scramble by nations to repatriate whatever jobs they can, usually by providing tax breaks or enforcing tax penalties.

For example, take Honda's Goldwing.  It was developed as a niche American product, manufactured in Marysville, Ohio.  But the recession caused Honda, like every other manufacturer with holdings overseas, to prioritize domestic production and domestic jobs.  So they pulled out of Marysville, but just because they pulled out of Marysville doesn't mean they stopped the Goldwing.  They still make Goldwings and are developing them further, but they do this in Japan.

Might the same thing happen with CoH 2?  It wasn't very feasable for NCSoft to shut down Arena or the Wildstar people, since they were already well into their development cycles and so much money has to be recouped there.  Paragon might have been easier to justify.  But just because Paragon was shut down doesn't mean they wouldn't do something with a successor to CoH.  It might mean that they really want a successor to CoH, but they don't want Paragon to do it.  For political reasons, more than anything else.

JaguarX

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2012, 02:17:24 AM »
looks like only time will tell and all we can do is just wait and see.
Even though they are mum, I have a feeling there is some sort of method to their madness.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 04:00:52 AM »
Given the recent trends of many Asian companies to repatriate their workforces, it could be that they'd rather have future titles developed on home soil.

You think that a Korean development team is going to create an American-style superhero MMO when they already know there is virtually zero Korean demand for such content? Suppose they were crazy enough to attempt it. Who does the localization for the U.S. market? Do we play the game in Korean? My proficiency with Hangul is probably considerably worse than their ability to create content that would be appealing to me. Without a team of American developers to translate and localize their game, this "secret project" would never see the light of day here.

Funny, then, that they just fired the very people who would be most capable of doing that localization. Didn't just "downsize" them, mind you---no, they liquidated them wholesale and razed their ashes into the earth.

Keep in mind that this is not a car or motorcycle we're talking about here. It's not going to exhibit easily tractable, objective engineering issues, like which side the steering wheel goes on or what the local regulatory requirements are; games like CoH are very complex interactive systems---they possess inseparable dependencies on cultural, mythological, idiomatic and linguistic traditions that may be very difficult (and not very entertaining) for "outsiders" to grasp. As a rather simplistic example, consider that Asians seem to harbor much more positive impressions of grindfests than many Americans do. This may be because grindy games are predictable in the sense that you can excel at them by brute force, I don't know. Or perhaps it simply reflects Asian educational systems, which are typically more given to repetition and rote than Western primary schools, at least in part because some Asian countries (not Korea, ironically) use the enormous Chinese idiographic character set. On the other side of the same example, twitchy first-person shooters with "insta-kill" mechanics do even more poorly there than grindfests do here. While there are exceptions, as well as a good deal of cross-over, the bias is clear enough that I simply cannot imagine that NCsoft would produce a game in Korea that they intended to sell primarily in the Western market.

Frankly, I think it's pretty clear that NCsoft put a bullet in the CoX franchise.

JaguarX

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 06:19:11 AM »


Frankly, I think it's pretty clear that NCsoft put a bullet in the CoX franchise.

Kind of look like two in the chest one in the head.

Sajaana

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 10:04:09 PM »
Keep in mind that this is not a car or motorcycle we're talking about here.

You're right.  It isn't a motorcycle or a car.  You don't need to import raw materials, process them, export finished products overseas, and disrupt a manufacturing supply chain.  This is what makes game development much more cost effective to repatriate than heavy industry.  It is, from a supply chain standpoint, probably the best multinational product one can produce.

It is true that there are a lot of escoteric concerns in game development, but I'm of the opinion that the cultural differences aren't insurmountable...especially since they have a working example of what works (City of Heroes).  If they can create significant savings for themselves by reducing frictional costs, while achieving comparable (perhaps not the same) results, they'd be foolish not to do it.

Is it a solution I, personally, like?  Of course not.  But I said the same thing when CoH switched development houses before.  Frankly, I'm not too concerned at this point who brings me back to Paragon City, as long as someone does.

As we said here on these boards, countless times, CoH is not like NCSoft's other cancelled IPs.  This one has legs.  Despite NCSoft's actions as of late, I can't help but think they know it too.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 10:22:44 PM »
Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 10:28:46 PM »
Sadly most of the environmental causes have become too lethargic and too much like other long-standing causes. There are plenty of good people who go out and clean up oil slicks or plant trees but unlike CoH the whole scene is more a social statement now.  people buy prius cars not realizing how bad they really are for the environment, they they go out and have parties 'for the environment' that use up resources and leave litter everywhere.

CoH is largely just a community of people with one simple desire, one simple focus, and something where the majority of immature players have either grown up over the years or get bored and leave. Honestly I think many other environmentalists could do with the kind of focus we brought to the whole CoH thing... and its not a bad idea.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2012, 09:47:23 PM »
It won't be a Coh 2, it be more like another Korean Grinding Game. After all our Protesting and rallys, I think NcSoft is mad at us and won't even bother to make another Coh 2.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2012, 01:22:20 AM »
IF NCSoft was actually thinking of a CoH2 (and it wasn't just a rumor) it would not have been made by our devs.  It would not have allowed us to port over our toons.  It would have been made in Korea and probably would either have been a Korean Grind that was F2P and microtransacted you to death, or would have been a 2d browser sidescroller with a limited number of toon costumes to choose from.

In short: nothing like CoH.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2012, 10:37:36 PM »
City of Heroes 2, I hate to say it, is NOT a rumor.  In 2010 NC Soft bought up the rights to Heroes 2, in July/Aug this year in a community coffee talk Zwil made mention of Heroes 2, and said Paragon was not working on it.

Not only that but almost 2 weeks before our beloved game was shut down NC Soft filed for an extension on the license for a FOURTH time, and it was granted.  The license can be viewed at the link below, look under Prosecution History.

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85004613&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch

Also NC Soft is also looking to hire a new development team that will be located at the same studio that Paragon was at.
http://adingworld.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/will-we-see-a-city-of-heroes-2/  linked out to NC Soft's site
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/jobs/index.html

Personally I don't think v2 will be as good as the original since Paragon isn't working on it.  I also don't want to give NC Suck another penny, and hope Heroes will be bought up and maintained properly so we can all play the game we've come to know and love.  I don't think they'd throw money into a title for so long and renew it so many times just to hold onto it and say "Haha you can't have it" and not have plans for something, specially if they're looking to hire a new dev team.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2012, 10:39:28 PM »
Interesting. But I just don't see it happening.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2012, 10:41:29 PM »
It will be salt in the wounds if NCSoft did all this just to make a CoH2 under another studio. I don't want to believe it's true.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2012, 10:42:29 PM »
Until it actually happens, I don't believe a word of it.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2012, 10:44:33 PM »
It wouldn't even make sense to cancel CoH when CoH2 has barely, if at all, begun development. By the time a finished product would ship, the mmo community at large wouldn't have CoH in their headspace as presently as they would with the game still running. They'd be setting themselves up to fail right there. I know NCSoft can be cartoonishly evil but I highly doubt that with their current issues, they'd just shovel money out the window like that.

So yeah. Chalking this up to not happening.

And if it does, it doesn't matter, because I won't play it.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2012, 10:46:03 PM »
I think they would probably have gone with a linked route like GW1 and GW2.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2012, 10:47:00 PM »
You'd have to be a little bit 'special' to alienate your entire market while planning a sequel...

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2012, 10:47:28 PM »
Exactly.

NCSoft has done some things I consider pretty damned stupid, but I don't see how even they could end CoH and fire the Paragon staff like they did if they had intended on going forward with plans for CoH 2. Its just not going to happen.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2012, 10:47:52 PM »
A not entirely stupid question, they've trademarked City of Heroes 2, does that protect say CoX2 ?

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2012, 10:48:20 PM »
They're stupid. But even though they're the enemy, I know they're not that stupid.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2012, 11:22:10 PM »
City of Heroes 2, I hate to say it, is NOT a rumor.  In 2010 NC Soft bought up the rights to Heroes 2, in July/Aug this year in a community coffee talk Zwil made mention of Heroes 2, and said Paragon was not working on it.

Not only that but almost 2 weeks before our beloved game was shut down NC Soft filed for an extension on the license for a FOURTH time, and it was granted.  The license can be viewed at the link below, look under Prosecution History.

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85004613&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch

Also NC Soft is also looking to hire a new development team that will be located at the same studio that Paragon was at.
http://adingworld.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/will-we-see-a-city-of-heroes-2/  linked out to NC Soft's site
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/jobs/index.html

Personally I don't think v2 will be as good as the original since Paragon isn't working on it.  I also don't want to give NC Suck another penny, and hope Heroes will be bought up and maintained properly so we can all play the game we've come to know and love.  I don't think they'd throw money into a title for so long and renew it so many times just to hold onto it and say "Haha you can't have it" and not have plans for something, specially if they're looking to hire a new dev team.



None of the locations that are on the Ncsoft site are near where Paragon Studios, and the date of the original post is from January 2012,

About the Copyright this is the Fourth of Five allowed extensions of the ITU (Intent To Use) and they have to renew every 6 months at this point. If they do not show use or work by the end of the 5 extension they could lose the copyright. I doubt that they will lose it, but if it does go into default I know a few people that would snatch it up as quick as they can this was actually discussed in another topic before http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5966.msg70790.html#msg70790
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2012, 11:24:58 PM »
Also NC Soft is also looking to hire a new development team that will be located at the same studio that Paragon was at.
http://adingworld.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/will-we-see-a-city-of-heroes-2/  linked out to NC Soft's site
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/jobs/index.html

That first link is dated January 2012 and is about the super secret project paragon were working on. The NCSoft page shows no job openings at their old Mountain View office. I think you are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 3.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2012, 11:26:19 PM »
I think that the CoH2 domain name would very likely be bundled with any sale of the game.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2012, 11:27:31 PM »
It bears pointing out that the front page of the official CoH site had links for "We're Hiring" and "Join Now!" for at least a week after Black Friday. The general impression is that the decision to shut down the game and studio was made extremely quickly, perhaps as recently as a week before the announcement.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2012, 11:39:48 PM »
And preview pictures of the Tech Knight armor set were put up on Facebook just 3 hours before the closure announcement was posted.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2012, 11:40:31 PM »

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2012, 11:58:48 PM »
The devs already talked about this some.  I'm pretty sure Positron touched on it in his Lore AMA.  Or maybe it was someone else?  Either way we've had concrete info for a month or so about it.  CoH2 was something they wanted to do, eventually, but they were busy with their other MMO project and it was going to have to wait until that was shipped to really get underway.  CoH2 and untitled project were going to share the same new engine.  They also said they were hoping to have some sort of way to link or transfer characters from 1 to 2 in some manner(probably some really minor bonuses or name reservations or something).

CoH2 existed in the sense that there were discussions about making it and it was an 'eventually' project.  Maybe there'd been some early design work done too, I wouldn't be surprised.  But it died along with Paragon Studios.

If there was to ever be a CoH2 now, it would be made by whoever ends up purchasing the rights to CoH from NCsoft, if they even sell.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2012, 12:02:30 AM »
I belive it when I see it, but when I see the way how they handle that then I don't think they are that stupid and the community aren't so stupid too that they really want to play an City of Heroes 2 from an other studio after all this mess. Yes, there was a time where we all was thinking that we see this game one day, but I don't think that the community will accept this game even when it's exist and I'm sure NC-Soft knows that.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2012, 12:12:27 AM »
I know the article is dated back in Jan, I also know that from the jobs page I'm looking at now that the article linked out to are the same locations I remember Paragon being located at, and clearly they've been hiring or have hired almost a year ago.  (I don't know exactly where their mountain view location is, I'll admit, but the Orange County and Austin locations I know is where Paragon was located.)  To me it hasn't been updated since I stumbled on it back in Sept.  The article doesn't mention a special project, it mentioned a new MMO at the same location.

I don't know what their motive is, and yes it does sound stupid to kill off Paragon just to bring in a new team, but it'd be even stupider to hold onto a license and throw money into it for almost 3 years and renew it just before shut down just to have it sit there or be forced to sell it with the first.  I don't know if selling Heroes means they have to sell the license to the second with it.

If I remember correctly, US and Europe wages are higher than Korean wages.  So we're talking about NC Soft having to purchase more property in the US and Europe if they want to keep dev teams here (which they clearly do since their hiring locations show it) and paying for two dev teams whose wages are higher than the wages 'back home'.  So looking at it from their 'business view' it probably would make more sense if they want to save money.  Remember, they said their 'reasoning' was a new alignment of company focus, which could mean anything.

I don't know, a bunch of my friends from the game said I had good points and I wanted to share.   I just know they own the license to CoH2, and to me it says something to renew it just before shutting down the first, specially if they have or are getting a new dev team together for it.  But just because they have it doesn't mean it will happen like everyone's been saying, but the plans are clearly there.  As messed up as this is going to sound I hope everyone's too PO'ed at them to apply and it was all for nothing.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2012, 12:40:42 AM »
NCSoft was notorious for not updating their "we're hiring" pages.  I have several friends who had applied on the basis of those pages only to be told that no, NCSoft West was not hiring at the time.

One of the questions the Korean Times reporter asked me about was if the Western players would support a browser-based, side-scrolling CoH2.  I am going to assume he asked me that because he had some inside knowledge that such a project was being floated.

So let me quickly find the question and my answer and post it here.

8.  As you know, the gaming platform is moving from PC to mobile in recent years: can you see yourself, if NCsoft decides to preserve City and make it available on mobile, playing it on a smartphone?


First of all, this is a complete fallacy.  It is probably much more realistic to say that "gaming has expanded into mobile operations."  There are just as many expensive gaming PCs being used now as there ever were.  There are just as many PC gamers as there ever were.  Big, powerful PCs are not being sold as much as they were in the past, because PC gamers are not buying new computers, they are upgrading their existing ones instead.  If you want a real number of PC gamers, as opposed to what the "common impression" is, you should look at sales of advanced video cards, not PCs as a whole.


PC gaming is not going to go away, or even drop that much.  In fact, as those inclined to game in the West get older, they are MORE likely to move to PCs.  Quite frankly, for those of us who are older (I am 62), gaming on a small screen is next to impossible.  I need as big a display as I can afford.  I have tried even simple games on a smartphone, and never went past the free trial as they were impossible and frustrating.  Nor am I the only one to say this.  The older a player is, the MORE likely he is to want a powerful PC with a big display to game on.


Judging by the reaction from the players on the Titan Network, NONE of them would be even remotely interested in a 2D sidescrolling version of City of Heroes.  Apps for a phone--checking the Marketplace, for instance, or simple chat on one of your global channels--those would be welcome.  But the players reacted to the idea of a 2D sidescrolling City of Heroes with disgust--and at this point, frankly, if NCSoft offered the core playerbase free beer for a year and a brand new car with their game, we probably wouldn't buy it.  If this is NCSoft's plan, it is a very bad one.


There also seems to be a fallacious assumption in Korea that everyone has 4G connectivity with unlimited airtime.


No.


In the US there are very few places with 4G connectivity.  I can't get it for instance, anywhere in my area.  Even 3G isn't the norm.  In fact, at my house, I can only get 2G service, which only allows texting and phone calls.  And US customers have limited plans with limited airtime.  There are many recent news stories about parents who absent-mindedly handed their child their phone to play an online game to keep him busy only to find themselves with a shockingly high bill at the end of the month.  This was not a bill for the game, which was free to play--it was a bill for the data download.  Many people have been switching to texting rather than calling, despite the fact that texting is less convenient because unlimited texting is still cheaper than using phone minutes.


The hype about smartphone games ignores this.  Evidently the writers of this hype live in an alternate universe, where 4G service is everywhere and costs nothing, rather than the reality I live in, where 4G service is confined to large cities, and data plans begin at $30 a month extra, with additional charges for every meg downloaded over 2GB a month.  ($30 for 2GB per month, $50 for 5GB, and $80 for 10GB.)


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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 12:52:41 AM »
Mercedes,

It is quite interesting in that case that he chose to leave that section out of the article altogether.  I hope he at least passed on its message to that NCSoft rep he talked to for the article.   :P

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2012, 01:04:17 AM »
Then you have these two articles.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/04/ncsoft-undergoing-realignment/

http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/12/123_126197.html

Considering that it's now revealed the game was making them over $2M a quarter, their assertation that the game was costing them money is now undeniably false. They'd rather hang onto their Korean Gold Farm, AKA Lineage II, one that, I believe, was the real cause to their losses.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2012, 01:05:45 AM »
I hate to burst your bubbles but if you sell Cox you HAVE to sell it all which includes the rights to make a sequel etc.
You cannot own ANY I.P from a Sequel and allow the creators to keep making the game. Its impossible no matter what the business transaction or relationship is.

Once you buy a I.P you own it.

If someone tries to buy the rights to the Halo game. They are buying a franchise. Not an individual game. you..CAN buy the rights to make your own versions of it that have strict guide lines like a pc version of X game or whatever or a something for the mobile phone but you wont own it.

So if Disney or whomever buys Cox...NCSOFT can NEVER make another Cox title or they will be sued and they will loose.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2012, 01:07:27 AM »
I heard Aion was the one that's been costing them, not L2.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2012, 01:10:57 AM »
Judging by the reaction from the players on the Titan Network, NONE of them would be even remotely interested in a 2D sidescrolling version of City of Heroes.  Apps for a phone--checking the Marketplace, for instance, or simple chat on one of your global channels--those would be welcome.  But the players reacted to the idea of a 2D sidescrolling City of Heroes with disgust--and at this point, frankly, if NCSoft offered the core playerbase free beer for a year and a brand new car with their game, we probably wouldn't buy it.  If this is NCSoft's plan, it is a very bad one.

Considering that Star Wars in recent years more or less told the original fans, "You don't matter", and Star Trek even went a step further and said, "The last 50 years of your viewership never happened", it wouldn't shock me if NCsoft didn't give a crap how the original fans felt about a 2D CoH2. As long as they think the portable gamers will buy it, that's all that matters. And I think NCsoft has already said enough to tell us that we're pretty irrelevant to their pockets.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2012, 01:36:53 AM »
I hate to burst your bubbles but if you sell Cox you HAVE to sell it all which includes the rights to make a sequel etc.
You cannot own ANY I.P from a Sequel and allow the creators to keep making the game. Its impossible no matter what the business transaction or relationship is.

Once you buy a I.P you own it.

If someone tries to buy the rights to the Halo game. They are buying a franchise. Not an individual game. you..CAN buy the rights to make your own versions of it that have strict guide lines like a pc version of X game or whatever or a something for the mobile phone but you wont own it.

So if Disney or whomever buys Cox...NCSOFT can NEVER make another Cox title or they will be sued and they will loose.

not true.  I actually JUST had this talk with my mom who was a computer software trainer and has dealt with these issues before.  NC Soft can sell off Heroes and keep Heroes 2 and do what ever they want with it.  The licenses have no connection to each other.  I think it's just a matter of making it run and play differently from the first.  *Also* they have to be willing to sell Heroes off first.

As for what cost NC Soft money, it was Aion, Blades and Souls, and the launch of GW2
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08/08/ncsoft-weathers-6m-loss-in-q2/

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2012, 01:41:23 AM »
So they chose to keep the project that is costing them the most money and Got rid of one of their most profit making ones.......Does the old computer term


DOES NOT COMPUTE

Translate well into their language?

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2012, 01:46:51 AM »
So they chose to keep the project that is costing them the most money and Got rid of one of their most profit making ones.......Does the old computer term


DOES NOT COMPUTE

Translate well into their language?

Nope.  Not only that but they are releasing Blades and Souls to NA and Euro gamers, or already did (I lost track), probably to try to make up loss sales/money to keep it alive I guess.  You cannot replace a family-friendly game with a gory mature one, but I dont know what logic they're using.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2012, 01:56:55 AM »
Also while I'm remembering it, one of the reasons NC Soft also has for firing Paragon and putting the new dev team in where Paragon once was, is the fact everything is already there, servers etc. instead of having to go out and buy new ones, just reuse what they already have (Someone said this somewhere else, I can't remember who or where.)

Plus I have a question that's been bugging me, I'm wondering if anyone can answer it.  From what I read NC Soft didn't want to sell before the shut down date due to legal issues.  Well if this is true, what's the difference between NC Soft buying Heroes from Cryptic (I dont think they just handed it over did they??) to NC soft selling it off to someone else??  I would think it would pretty much be the same process???

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2012, 03:05:53 AM »
Mountain View is in the Bay Area near San Francisco over 300 miles away from Orange County near Los Angeles. The Paragon Studios were stripped. So there is minimal equipment to be used
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2012, 03:58:00 AM »
Also while I'm remembering it, one of the reasons NC Soft also has for firing Paragon and putting the new dev team in where Paragon once was, is the fact everything is already there, servers etc. instead of having to go out and buy new ones, just reuse what they already have (Someone said this somewhere else, I can't remember who or where.)

Plus I have a question that's been bugging me, I'm wondering if anyone can answer it.  From what I read NC Soft didn't want to sell before the shut down date due to legal issues.  Well if this is true, what's the difference between NC Soft buying Heroes from Cryptic (I dont think they just handed it over did they??) to NC soft selling it off to someone else??  I would think it would pretty much be the same process???

The entirety of Paragon Studios was stripped--in fact you can listen to the tear-down going on in the background of the last couple of coffee-talks--and the building is up for rent.  At least hearing, the building had no new tenant, though that could change since the property is very reasonably priced for the area.  The servers are part of an existing server farm in Dallas that they rent, so nothing to buy there. 

I assume that the HQ of NCSoft West (which is in Seattle, not Orange County or California), where the recent layoffs were, is also in rented facilities. 

I would gently suggest that you stop listening to people who are giving you such bad information, because so far everything you have said is demonstrably wrong.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2012, 04:21:59 AM »
The entirety of Paragon Studios was stripped--in fact you can listen to the tear-down going on in the background of the last couple of coffee-talks--and the building is up for rent.  At least hearing, the building had no new tenant, though that could change since the property is very reasonably priced for the area.  The servers are part of an existing server farm in Dallas that they rent, so nothing to buy there. 

I assume that the HQ of NCSoft West (which is in Seattle, not Orange County or California), where the recent layoffs were, is also in rented facilities. 

I would gently suggest that you stop listening to people who are giving you such bad information, because so far everything you have said is demonstrably wrong.

Actually no, not everything I said is wrong.  As I stated in my first post, Zwil had mentioned CoH2 was going to be done and that Paragon was not working on it.  I will have to dig through the coffee talks to find out which one he said it in but I sat in and watched it live when he said it.  Also the fact NC Soft owns the license and made a fourth request for extension on Nov 18 and it was granted on Nov 26, and I posted the link to the license info, also shows I was not wrong there either.  They clearly have plans for CoH2, it's a matter of if and when.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2012, 04:29:34 AM »
Like I said earlier. I will believe it when I see it.

Furthermore, if they do have plans, they can forget me playing after the crap they pulled on CoX.
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2012, 04:35:12 AM »
Zwil had mentioned CoH2 was going to be done and that Paragon was not working on it.

Don't you think that statement might have generated a couple of posts on the forums?
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2012, 04:50:42 AM »
Last I heard about CoH2, it was pitched, and denied by Paragon, in addition to many other things. The only thing that was accepted was ultimately the secret project. But I don't hold to this stance.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2012, 05:09:22 AM »
I ran across a thread post from a former dev, indicating that CoH2 was being fiddled with in-house at Paragon as sort of a CoH1.5. The idea was that you'd have heroes vs. villains. vs. a new third faction to account for shifting loyalties; very similar to CoH1 but with the combat engine replaced; and tentative plans for character crossover to avoid losing the subscription fees on CoH1 while all this was going on.

It never got too far as delays in other projects in the NCSoft pipeline kept pushing them back. They apparently pulled the plug a couple of years ago as the timeline was pushing them five years out at that point, and they weren't even sure that the tech or MMO sales model would project that far out.

Granted, this was a guy who claimed to be a dev who left Paragon Studios at roughly the same time as Babs. I'll accept it as it makes logical sense, but anything an educated fan could speculate on could make the same claim, so whether or not it holds water can only be confirmed by those who're actually in the know.

And with that said it's a bit academic at this point. If I had probability manipulation powers, I'd grab the CoH IP, and make a deal with Posi and WW to work with Cryptic on a "City of Champions" successor to both games, combining what worked with both, and having Millennium City and Paragon City as wide-open, war-wall free zones in the same game world. But that's not going to happen. Making it about as useful as a plan as any thoughts on a CoH2 that never was. If the hail mary connects, we'll likely see a CoH2 (it wouldn't make sense to invest that sort of cash without a long-term plan), but it'll likely be a lot different than anything they were kicking around back in the day.

Perfidus

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2012, 05:14:08 AM »
No offense but I'm glad you won't get to do that. Millennium City is a completely different world than those in CoH. Millennium City is a joke, and doesn't take itself seriously enough to work in a CoH merger.

Jadenator

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2012, 05:52:48 AM »
Don't you think that statement might have generated a couple of posts on the forums?

It did.  http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,4960.0.html, which prompted me to watch the video from Sept 5 (which I'm doing now).  I'd search the official forums but they're shut down.  Plus these forums are so popular it's not hard to overlook a post or thread.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2012, 05:58:29 AM »
"Heroes and Villains" website - http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
"Heroes and Villains" on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG
"Heroes and Villains" on Twitter - https://twitter.com/Plan_Z_Studios
"Heroes and Villains" teaser trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjKqNPfFv8
Artwork - http://goldengirlcoh.deviantart.com

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2012, 06:15:18 AM »
Where's the mention of making CoH2?

you didn't read it did you?? 

"I was not able to watch it, but I have read (from many places) the notes on what was said.  A couple of things...

"Super secret project" that they cannot discuss, but was confirmed terminated?  Very odd.  I can't think of what that could have been.  My boyfriend mentioned CoH2, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering the whole studio was laid off. What could they have been working on that NCsoft doesn't want them talking about presently?  Unless it was that other MMO that was greenlit."

She said she couldn't watch it, but clearly her source (her boyfriend) made mention of the secret project and CoH2 from the live stream or else she probably wouldn't have asked.

Like I said I'm watching through the videos in full to find it, once I find it I will link it and at what point it was.  The video from Sept 5 is 90 min long, I'm an hour in.  The license should be enough proof.  NC Soft isn't going to throw money into a title just to have it sit there.  It costs money to license a title and renew it, and it was renewed -recently-.  If they don't have plans for it you really think they'd pit money into it??

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2012, 06:22:17 AM »
The developers have constantly said, before and after the announcement, that the super secret project was -not- CoH2. They had plans for it, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't in development. I think it was TonyV that mentioned something about CoH2 taking place on the west coast.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2012, 06:26:04 AM »
The developers have constantly said, before and after the announcement, that the super secret project was -not- CoH2. They had plans for it, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't in development. I think it was TonyV that mentioned something about CoH2 taking place on the west coast.

Perhaps we're both reading the post differently?  I read it as topic a and topic b from the twitch stream, not CoH2 actually being the secret project, unless I'm reading you wrong (text sucks sometimes).

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2012, 06:26:35 AM »
The developers have constantly said, before and after the announcement, that the super secret project was -not- CoH2. They had plans for it, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't in development. I think it was TonyV that mentioned something about CoH2 taking place on the west coast.
There was work on CoH2 done, it was on the west coast, even some concept art was shown. But that's about it that we know of.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2012, 06:40:12 AM »
NC Soft isn't going to throw money into a title just to have it sit there.  It costs money to license a title and renew it, and it was renewed -recently-.  If they don't have plans for it you really think they'd pit money into it??

It appears to have cost them $150 to file the extension (barring any attorney fees). 

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn85004613&docId=ESU20121120153857

Not exactly a bank-breaker.  ;)


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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2012, 06:54:05 AM »
There was work on CoH2 done, it was on the west coast, even some concept art was shown. But that's about it that we know of.

When was this???

It appears to have cost them $150 to file the extension (barring any attorney fees). 

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn85004613&docId=ESU20121120153857

Not exactly a bank-breaker.  ;)

even if it's not a bank breaker, it's still stupid to just hold onto a title for so long just to have it.  And given as downix just made mention of conecpt art and work was done, the license renewal clearly isn't for nothing.

Also looking at the link you provided:
ONGOING EFFORT   product or service research or development
Which means they are currently researching the development of the game or actually developing it.  It's clearly not a product yet since it's not out for sale.

Anyways Sept 5 video didn't make mention of it.  it's nearing 2 AM for me, I'm continuing video watching later today (or tomorrow depending on where you are)

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2012, 07:03:57 AM »
Companies routinely take out license extensions for products they have no intention EVER of producing, just to prevent a rival from getting the license and making it.  It happens all the time.  I am sure you will find that Coca Cola has licenses on every possible permutation of the "Coke" label for that very purpose.  They would camp on the license for the same reason that they would vault CoH and never let go of it.  While the license renewal states they are doing research on CoH2, all that "research" has to legally amount to is "we're thinking about it."  No one ever comes to check if you are actually doing anything.

By the same token, having the license for CoH2 as well as the CoH property makes the CoH property a little more valuable if they intend to sell as a package deal.  that $115 renewal could be worth tens of thousands of dollars in a deal.

The work done on CoH2 and the concept art, done on the West Coast, was done three years ago by Paragon Studios.  The project was canceled by NCSoft.  I saw it there on my visit.  Shortly after my visit, NCSoft canceled all work on CoH2.  Paragon then began work on the two "secret projects" which had no relationship to CoH2.  One was going to be a pen and paper game.  The other was going to be a computer game, and that is all that I know about them.

It seems to me that this entire thread is based on colliding assumptions and misapprehensions, like a big game of "Telephone."
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 07:09:13 AM by Victoria Victrix »
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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2012, 07:48:19 AM »
If they made a COH 2 without Paragon it's just a body stealer wearing our world's skin. Nothing more. A wizzend grind hell husk really.

I don't really get this attitude myself. I wasn't even around in the 'old days' of COH, but wasn't the Dev team after Cryptic sold off COH an almost complete overhaul with a couple of exceptions? If you stuck around after that point I think it would make sense that you'd play a sequel with a different dev team.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2012, 07:54:40 AM »
I'd be open to a new dev team, but only if they were built in Paragon's image and held their values.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2012, 07:58:10 AM »
Basically what I'm saying is that I'm as loyal to my team as I am my game. I would expect any new team to carry those Paragon Studios values. I don't trust a new, unknown team to make a successor to this game. I would at least hope that Matt and Melissa could head up such a new team, and build it in their image. (Posi ans War Witch, for the one or two people who don't know their real names.)

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2012, 05:18:11 PM »
Actually no, not everything I said is wrong.  As I stated in my first post, Zwil had mentioned CoH2 was going to be done and that Paragon was not working on it.  I will have to dig through the coffee talks to find out which one he said it in but I sat in and watched it live when he said it.  Also the fact NC Soft owns the license and made a fourth request for extension on Nov 18 and it was granted on Nov 26, and I posted the link to the license info, also shows I was not wrong there either.  They clearly have plans for CoH2, it's a matter of if and when.

If... and when... and how utterly stupid[/i] they are if they think they're going to get a viable playerbase after poisoning the well.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2012, 05:51:17 PM »
I don't believe they have a CoX2 in the works, because if they did they would have made the announcement before the closure of CoX Primal Earth [my metaphor], to soften the rage longtime players were bound to feel. It would still have been bad to close this version of CoX, but the thought of a new version to come would have completely changed the mood of the closure.

They will poison this well because they think they are over and done with it. The problem is, poison can spread around underground via ground-water, and then its an OHS**T! moment. I think they're just now realizing that they poisoned not only CoX, but every title they are involved with - as well as damaging trust for all MMO players, everywhere.

GOOD JOB GUYS!

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2012, 06:00:05 PM »
I don't really get this attitude myself. I wasn't even around in the 'old days' of COH, but wasn't the Dev team after Cryptic sold off COH an almost complete overhaul with a couple of exceptions? If you stuck around after that point I think it would make sense that you'd play a sequel with a different dev team.

Not according to Paragon Wiki where it says "most of those developers for the game left Cryptic and moved over to the new studio" [Paragon Studio]

http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Paragon_Studios


I have seen many business's change hands and the old customers slowly vanish because the new owners don't understands them. The business may attract new customers and succeed, but often it fails.

Keep in mind a new team will not know the old players. They will not have spent time playing with them in the old game, meeting them at events and reading their forum posts. This can lead to many pitfalls and problems such as...

A new team will not know the history of the game. "Go Hunt, Kill Skulls", "Winter Lord Baby" & "Sister Flame" will be meaningless phrases to them. Memes, shared history, and in jokes can build a community, and keep it together.

A new team is likely to put things into the game that will alienate and anger many old players.
"Lets have missions and badges and loot in PvP zones so PvEers will go there."
"We don't need very many costumes to start all we need are a lot of sexy, revealing costumes for girls and give the men kick ass macho stuff and we can charge for any new costumes after that."

There are hundreds if not thousands more pitfalls an old team would nimbly avoid that a new team will likely fall into and wind up angering the original player base. That is why if CoH2 is ever made, Not that I think NC Soft will do so,  that without a core group of the original Devs it is likely to be unappealing to the original players.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 06:06:35 PM by RandomUnicorn »