Blog post on MMORPG: NCsoft "sold out" Guild Wars

[Noyjitat]

Yet another thing to get your blood boiling. I'm effin pissed. http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs.cfm/blogId/1209/entry/24237/utm_campaign/MMORPG%20Daily%20Digest%20Email/utm_source/MMORPG/utm_medium



[EDIT: I changed the title of the post to be less misleading. Previously, "Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough...." ~Agge]

[ohms]

The article heading states that they were "sold out" not that they had been sold.

[Jetfire99]

IF GW's players are getting hosed too I'll welcome them to join our efforts to also save their game as well.

[Victoria Victrix]

This is probably the "smoking gun" that explains WHO ordered the cancellation of CoH and WHY.

WHO:  Nexon

WHY: Because Paragon Studios either could not or would not monetize the Ascendant and enhancement systems and turn CoH into yet another gold-farming Korean Grind.

[Osborn]

This is probably the "smoking gun" that explains WHO ordered the cancellation of CoH and WHY.

WHO:  Nexon

WHY: Because Paragon Studios either could not or would not monetize the Ascendant and enhancement systems and turn CoH into yet another gold-farming Korean Grind.

The funny thing though is that Paragon Studios was monetizing both of those systems. Incarnate was VIP only. Account-Bound Enhancements were being sold on the market place. Invention required either a very high tier reward, a monthly pass or VIP. All of that IS monetizing those systems. Even if you feel said systems was 'fair' and I personally do mostly*.

And yet despite that, I can't really fault your evaluation of the situation. Nexon and Perfect World doesn't seem to understand how to make a proper Free to Play game without coming off as nickle and diming. That stuff works in Korea, I guess, because they have more disposable income and are a lot less hesitant in spending it and are a lot more accommodating to bizarre and terrible BS from corporations. But here it just makes them into the video game equivalent of the knock off toy salesman. And then they do poorly in the West and wonder why.

*(Personally, I would had never separated VIP and Premium players by zone or by server, and I would had made everything in the game available on the PP Market, even if it was by a month ticket. The mindset you have to get into with F2P is that your players are your walking advertisement for things. I know almost everything I bought on the Paragon Market or the Super Packs I bought were from seeing somebody wearing a fox tail or something and being like "Where did that come from?", them telling me, and me buying it. You also have to get into the mindset that the Premium set up is to get money out of people who are unable or unwilling to commit a monthly fee to a game, but will still like to pay money to the game, not as a method to 'force' them to subscribe later. I know my VIP lapsed occasionally due to personal economic instability where I was capable in 'bursts' to spend, but not commit to a trick of spending and uncertain of spending on long-term subscriptions (not for fear of the game going under, but fear that my job situation wouldn't leave me free time that month or another to play, period). I've probably spent more money per month during my Premium time than I did during my VIP time. They shouldn't had and shouldn't had encouraged their community to treat the Premium players like moochers.. but that's waaaay off topic)

[Cinnder]

I have to agree 100% with you here. Paragon Studios quite possibly *over* monetized the game, and also left parts of the game entirely cut out from the "non subscribers" (Incarnate content) if they didn't subscribe. It wouldn't have been so bad if there was a license that you could get (travel zone pass into the "restricted zones" as it were). But for a F2P game, it really did irk me.

I assume they wanted to keep some people subscribing.  What's the incentive to subscribe if it doesn't provide access to some exclusive stuff?  I think it has to be more than just a cost-savings option to access all the same content -- that could just be a "sale package" on the market.

[Noyjitat]

Exactly, which I guess what happens when you just google stuff, and don't actually bother reading the article.

Although in this case, considering what was said in the article would you *really* want stuff like that to happen to us?

Answers on a post card please...

I didn't google it, I was pointed to it by someone else. And it looks to be true.

[Lily Barclay]

I didn't google it, I was pointed to it by someone else. And it looks to be true.

The article isn't saying NCSoft sold Guildwars. It says it sold them out. As in screwed over their player base for profit.

Also, this is a blog, not a real article I don't think. The writer didn't bother to even source his information, and got snooty when people asked him to. I have a hard time taking it seriously.

[LadyWizard]

Also they're repeating the NCSoft and Nexon trying to buy valve thing when owner of valve flatout said he'd destroy the company before he'd let that happen if I recall correct

[Quinch]

Yeah, the Valve angle is pointlessly alarmist and just hurts the credibility of the rest of the article; Gaben pretty much went out and said he'd rather burn the company to the ground than sell out {not in those words, but same gist}. Not that Nexon or any other company wouldn't try, but I don't see it happening as long as the Willy Wonka of game industry is in charge.

[redgiant]

I am sure there were devs who still hated going f2p to begin with. All they wanted to do was continue making a great, cohesive game without all the slapped on artifical nonsense f2p pushes you toward. It probably embarassed them, because devs just want to make a fun and complete game experience and to be proud of their work. Oh, they know the story on why they had to try moving in that direction, but that doesn't mean they liked it.

They also know their customer base, and they knew that they had to continue offering a normal sub that was as close to the same as it had been before f2p as possible from a "feel" perspective, while also allowing new or returning folks without a sub to trial the game and hopefully sub.

What I'm getting at is, unlike most f2p games the goal of CoH was to get people to sub again by using f2p as a trial carrot, more than a permanent state for someone to play like that. They wanted enough f2p friction to entice you to sub.

Frankly, f2p games that _do_ rely on the plan of not caring if you sub because they can trick the average idiot to pay even more than $15/month have to rig their fundamental game structure so ludicrously you'd have to be legally brain dead not to get annoyed by it.

Guess which kind dominates the Korean market.

(Disclaimer: I come from the UO, EQ, DAoC, COH, AC, SB era though, so I am biased and still laugh uncontrollably at the feeble masquerade of f2p.)

[Cinnder]

I agree, redgian.

I think the industry could benefit from having two different terms for f2p that make a clear distinction between a purely "a la carte" game that has no subscription and one like CoH, which is really a subscription game that has a limited free option.  Using the same term for both models seems to result in confused expectations.

BTW, I find it interesting that SWTOR seems for once to be following the lead of a game other than WoW in its version of f2p, which is a lot closer to the CoH subscription-encouraging model.

[Lily Barclay]

Also they're repeating the NCSoft and Nexon trying to buy valve thing when owner of valve flatout said he'd destroy the company before he'd let that happen if I recall correct

Yeah that's the main reason I question the post.

[Lily Barclay]

It also looks like it learnt from City of Heroes and actually made it possible for a "non subscriber" to actually participate in end game content...

Not really. It has gimped the free player so bad, they would be a burden to have on a team for the end game stuff. The only way they could really participate fully would be if they paid to unlock gear and quick bars. Also, the currency cap doesn't even allow you enough to buy your final skills in one shot.

[Lily Barclay]

[Osborn]

To many game creators are 'stuck' in the mindset that if they're not making 15 a month from you every month they're making nothing, even if you spend twice that much. They seem to treat the 'Premium' players as a nuisance.

I don't think I'd ever really spend more than 5 dollars on ST:TOR because the game is steeped in treating the 'Preferred' player as baggage.

The way the F2P model works and generates revenue isn't by being a stealth subscription model with an extended demo. It works by treating both the subscriber and the 'Premium' player as paid customers and giving them relatively equal value for their dollar.

CoH soooorta kiiiinda understood that with the Reward Tokens and Reward Tiers, at least for a bit. The price to unlock some of the later tiers was retarded for most people. I had most of mine unlocked instantly just from vets. So maybe I'm a bit biased on it. But I didn't feel like the game was actively trying to drive me away unless I subscribed.

Star Wars seems like a fun enough game, but the game does seem like it's trying its hardest to drive away the Preferred or Free players. Some of the stupidest crap is locked behind paywalls. You have to BUY the ability to modify the GUI and put down quickbars for skills? Come the heck on.

This problem is MOSTLY present in games that are 'forced' to turn F2P. It's like the developers in it only sorta begrudgingly allow it, rather than embrace it, and embrace the idea of making money off the 'Premium' players and treating them like valued customers, and not just the VIP.

It should be about player payment choice, not trying to force them into subscribing. Otherwise just stick to the subscription only model and give out trial demo accounts.

That's my opinion on it anyways.

I assume they wanted to keep some people subscribing.  What's the incentive to subscribe if it doesn't provide access to some exclusive stuff?  I think it has to be more than just a cost-savings option to access all the same content -- that could just be a "sale package" on the market.

Thing was, aside from when I couldn't, I ended up subscribing any time I could, with 2 accounts. Though, as I said, I probably spent more dollar amount on Premium things per month than the subscription, due to sometimes I'd have a good amount of cash to spend, then sometimes I'd have jack nothing, and sometimes my consistent group would just flat up not have time to play. I really did like the premium options, even if I ended up spending more, for the convenience.

I think CoH could had done the F2P a LOT better, but some companies are just HORRIBLE at it, where Premium or F2P is basically just there to try to convince you to subscribe.

But a lot of players in CoH were really snobbish and acted like if you spend 30 dollars a month on the game you aren't a 'real' customer compared to their 11.99/month but spent all up front. That bothered me a lot.

Also they're repeating the NCSoft and Nexon trying to buy valve thing when owner of valve flatout said he'd destroy the company before he'd let that happen if I recall correct

Monitary wise, Valve would be in the better position to buy Nexon and NCSoft, so that's just kinda stupid anyways.

Not saying either's likely.

[Quinch]

The thing that pissed me off most of all, more than the clunky interface {and that's saying something, considering I'm a UI primadonna} and lack of preview was the fact that there was no way at all to gift anything, whether for the in-game store, or master account purchases.

Remember those dollar starter pack offers? I would've bought a dozen {instead of only two} and handed them out to people if I didn't have to set up each account manually.

I mean seriously. Gifting online purchases is not an optional thing anymore.

[Osborn]

The thing that pissed me off most of all, more than the clunky interface {and that's saying something, considering I'm a UI primadonna} and lack of preview was the fact that there was no way at all to gift anything, whether for the in-game store, or master account purchases.

Remember those dollar starter pack offers? I would've bought a dozen {instead of only two} and handed them out to people if I didn't have to set up each account manually.

I mean seriously. Gifting online purchases is not an optional thing anymore.

The lack of preview for what? In CoH?

[Quinch]

Yep, the in-game store.

[Turjan]

But SWtOR has definitely done all they can to make sure no one stays truly free to play.  It's like they are trying to bully players into just subscribing.

But with me, fail they have

I subbed to SWTOR for a couple of months at launch, then let it lapse in a fit of austerity. I did manage to transfer my mains and a bunch of "what happens if I do this?" alts back when learned about the server merger, then left the thing alone again til it went F2P. When I logged in I saw 17 toons in total, and was faced with the prospect of unlocking just 2 if I stayed Freemium.

I couldn't choose, so I simply elected to unlock none of them instead

Then I went off and set up a new totally F2P account in the knowledge that I would be keeping it totally F2P. This was because all the toons I had previous dosh invested in are still frozen in digital carbonite on my original account, and if I want extra content, those are the ones I'd be thawing out with cash. Which I likely won't be doing, because if I was really that bothered, why did I make a new F2P account at all?

So ironically, as long as I have my new F2P account I'm actually less likely to spend real cash on the game!

[dwturducken]

^^^^^^^
evil genius

 

[Lily Barclay]

As far as doing end game ops with only two skill bars, the possibility of this depends entirely on your class. My smuggler has three and a half bars of skills that I use. My juggernaut might be functional with two bars. Barely. People are going to leave out things like interrupts and "oh shit" powers, and that is what will make the game harder for other players. I don't count inventory items. At most my toons h have three slots for them, and I rarely need then. But when I do need them, I don't have time to pull up my inventory. And no, I am not fighting with that huge clunky ui in my way. Tab targeting in this game is horrible. So yeah, the end game in SWtOR might technically be reachable for f2p, but there's no way I'd call it playable. Unless you are just talking about dailies. You want to spam that boring crap, more power to you, but hard modes? Not functional without burdening other players.

I will be unsubbing when a better game comes along to throw my money at. Unless they fix it. They won't.

[Lily Barclay]

I am not so certain that those are available to a truely F2P player... hard modes that is.

Ah okay. Well then neither is the end game. Because that's it in this game. Spamming hard modes for gear (that f2p can't wear).

Edit: In order to do ops. I forget about those because I can't stomach the grind to get to that point.

[Lily Barclay]

Yeah I'm not sure if it's a one off or a license.

[AeternalDreamer]

Well, compared to what the F2P was before for Star Wars: TOR, it's great now. I mean, it was very limited before, you could only get to about level 15 if I recall correctly. I've actually resubbed to TOR since I can't bring myself to pay to play CO and I don't pay a monthly fee for CoH anymore. I can afford to pay for one mmo monthly sub again, and I like having all the benefits on my game. I can see why people might get aggravated at the things that are locked out for Premium and F2P, but you're essentially able to play from level 1-50 for free. That's all the story content.

[Adrenalin]

Actually, TOR is adding two more bars to the F2P, as well as a few other minor adjustments. I believe EAware is having the same problem they always have, the pains of learning how to run an MMO while directly in the trenches. I do however think they can be taught, as long as they continue to listen to their player base.

[NecrotechMaster]

The thing that pissed me off most of all, more than the clunky interface {and that's saying something, considering I'm a UI primadonna} and lack of preview was the fact that there was no way at all to gift anything, whether for the in-game store, or master account purchases.

Remember those dollar starter pack offers? I would've bought a dozen {instead of only two} and handed them out to people if I didn't have to set up each account manually.

I mean seriously. Gifting online purchases is not an optional thing anymore.

i agree with that, having a gift option would have definitely been the way to go, i mean you can gift poeple games on steam, whats the difference in gifting an in game item to someone?

it is very likely that the market design and stuff was partially forced on them from the parent company, or nexon

[Victoria Victrix]

Parent company if anything, Nexon were *not* in the picture when Freedom was launched...

....well that depends on how big your tinfoil hat is.

Taek Jin Kim had just married his second wife a couple months before.

Who was a former Nexon executive before she married him.

[corvus1970]

So your hat smells like thanksgiving?

AWESOME! 

[dwturducken]

Every once in a great while, your "British" shows. It's kinda cute.

[corvus1970]

I guess the fact that i said Christmas and not Thanksgiving gave it away right?

For me it was less that, and instead your use of the phrase "bin it"

[dwturducken]

"Bin it," "adverts," "at university" rather than "in college"

Some folks on here, for whatever reason, are lingually indistinguishable from an English speaking North American. Some are clearly not native English speakers. I've been reading your posts for three months, and, while you may have mentioned it once or twice, this is the first time I've actually seen idiomatic differences. 

[Aggelakis]

Ads or advertisements.

Ages 16-18 are still in high school for us. You graduate high school typically at 18 (some at 17). College/university is synonymous and covers all post-HS education other than short certification courses which usually take a few months and don't count toward college degrees.

[srmalloy]

Yeah I agree with you.  But SWtOR has definitely done all they can to make sure no one stays truly free to play.  It's like they are trying to bully players into just subscribing.

Having the "Check out the benefits of becoming a subscriber" button on virtually every window you open is one of the things that, I fear, is rapidly going to become tiresome.

[General Idiot]

CoH had a store button on almost any window that might conceivably have anything related to in it in the store, but at least it was small and mostly unobstrusive. From the sound of it TOR is... not so much. Which doesn't surprise me really, though it does make me wonder if the profits they make by forcing people into subsribing if they want a full featured game outweigh customers they inevitably lose by being so blatant about it.

[dwturducken]

I haven't found the "store" to be obtrusive in any of the games. Sure, the cool stuff is behind a paywall, but it's not obnoxious or limiting. Granted, I haven't gotten beyond about level 25 in any one game (STO).  The free CoH account that I made was obtrusive. The store icon couldn't be turned off on the main play screen. I never felt limited by it, just annoyed, aside from not having all of my veteran rewards.

[FatherXmas]

It reads as tin foil hat conspiracy conjured up by the author due to the controversy over the new Ascended class of loot and nothing more.

[johnrobey]

Meleagar's article reads like a (decent) fan-zine, not a pro-zine (professional magazine, if "pro-zine" is unfamiliar.)   It also raises valid points, many of which have been discussed here.  As a player I'm willing to do a certain, limited amount of "grinding."  As a player I like the Free to Play (F2P) model as an extended trial to see whether I like the product enough to subscribe.  One of my friends is an MMO player of considerable experience (she now gets paid to develop wikis so has to play even games she doesn't like) whose initial raves over GW2 soured in about two weeks, for the reasons Meleagar writing about (cash shops/pay-to-win) and others.  Meleagar also seems in favor of a Consumer/Player Bill of Rights (another topic we've discussed on these forums.)

Myself, I'm happy to pay $15-25/month for an MMORPG subscription.  For myself, it's good entertainment value for the dollar compared to movie house prices or even NetFlix DVD rentals.  I already know from LOTRO that I'm better off subscribing if I'm going to play beyond casual low level, because it will cost me much more as "premium"/silver than as a subscribing VIP/gold player.  Meleagar raises some interesting issues, and I wonder how long it will be before Industrial Engineers, Psychologists and others are brought in to figure out the best most cost-efficient way of fleecing the players.  Maybe they're already here.

If Meleagar's prediction about online MMORPGaming is correct, then it's likely I'll switch back to stand alone computer games, such as Civilization.  Barring that, I'll break out a deck of cards and gather some friends.  If my hand warrants it, I'll start the bidding at One No Trump.

[houtex]

It reads as tin foil hat conspiracy conjured up by the author due to the controversy over the new Ascended class of loot and nothing more.

This.

And this tidbit, from the article:

"Essentially, the game has become a pay-to-win scheme."

I was unaware that MMOs were 'winnable' in some way, except to get to the pinnacle of character development.  And then make a new one, or keep stayin' on top with that badass.

The Portals, Quakes, and Dooms (sans PvP) are 'winnable'.  Mario Kart is winnable.  Zelda is winnable.  The Original Adventure (The Heathkit version is my fav... LPWI babies.) is winnable. 

How do you win at MMOs?  Just curious.  Perhaps I can be enlightened. 

/Don't play that many... but they all seem to be "level up to the top and you... uh, got there.  Keep playin' or something."

[CG]

After you reach the level cap, you improve with gear.  Since you can buy gear in the store and there's a stronger PvP aspect to Korean style games, you can pay to win in those if the store sells better gear.  Winning in this case is beating all the other players.

Even in WoW, you need to run lower level dungeons to get the gear to challenge higher level raids and eventually beat the expansion's "boss" (winning).

[FatherXmas]

The thing is, it isn't a "pay to win" any more than our Incarnate slots were P2W.  The items aren't available in the cash shop, their components for crafting aren't available in the cash shop.  It reads like sour grapes players felt the first time WoW had an expansion and the new item drops were better than the set you spent hours upon hours grinding to get at the previous level cap.  And in a unhealthy dose of Nexon and NCSoft are EBIL!!11!, stir and you get that rant.

Guild Wars 2's currency proxy are Gems.  They sell gems in stores like Target/BestBuy/Walmart at the rate of 2000 gems for $25 or 80 for $1 (ratio sounds familiar).  Or you can buy them in game with in game currency at roughly 100 gems for 1 1/4 gold, which would be 80 for about 1 gold.  Nexon cash shops are all about cash, they would have nixed the use of in game currency outright.

If NCSoft is disengaging from the western markets to focus on Asia exclusively, I can see ArenaNet buying themselves back because GW2 isn't a grindy, PvP driven, grind fest and it will do very well in the west.

[houtex]

After you reach the level cap, you improve with gear.  Since you can buy gear in the store and there's a stronger PvP aspect to Korean style games, you can pay to win in those if the store sells better gear.  Winning in this case is beating all the other players.

Even in WoW, you need to run lower level dungeons to get the gear to challenge higher level raids and eventually beat the expansion's "boss" (winning).

Oh, so you're saying I was losing because I only used Brawl with Brawling Humiliator, or required to be on a team to level up Total Dependent.  Got it.

:|

/Shades of what 'winning' in an MMO are different for different peoples, hence, didn't know that there was any 'winning' to be had.
//Not knocking ya, dude, just sayin'... What you're saying still doesn't work, IMO, for an MMO.  There's no way to 'win', just enjoy. 
///But that's me, I guess.

[CG]

Oh, so you're saying I was losing because I only used Brawl with Brawling Humiliator, or required to be on a team to level up Total Dependent.  Got it.

<blink, blink>  How did we get from a question about what paying to win means to disparaging your character?

/Shades of what 'winning' in an MMO are different for different peoples, hence, didn't know that there was any 'winning' to be had.
//Not knocking ya, dude, just sayin'... What you're saying still doesn't work, IMO, for an MMO.  There's no way to 'win', just enjoy. 
///But that's me, I guess.

Don't shoot the messenger.  When people use the phrase "paying to win" in reference to an MMO, they usually mean buying in-game non-cosmetic improvements.  I'm not trying to defend it, just to answer your question.  You may play to enjoy, but lots of people define their own win condition, then go out to achieve it.

[Vasarto]

so wait...can someone dumb it down just a tiny bit for my special ed high school education mind to wrap my mind around. What does monetization mean exactly and what exactly did they do to Guild Wars 2?

Does Nexon own GW2 now? Does that mean GW2 servers are shutting down or no more new development will ever be done on it?


I am really confused by all the big educated learning words being used here lol.

[Triplash]

What does monetization mean exactly

I have no idea about the rest of your questions, but this one I can take a shot at. In a nutshell, monetization means taking something you already have and finding a way to make money off it. For example, let's say your house has a garage but you don't use it. You could fix it up, turn it into an apartment, and rent it out... bam, you just monetized your garage. You took something that was just sitting there, and turned it into a source of income.

[CG]

NCSoft owns GW2.  Nexon has a 15% share in NCSoft which gives them a little latitude to make 'suggestions'.  NCSoft hired Nexon's former Monetization Manager to get more money out of GW2.  A Monetzation Manager is someone who helps a company make money by providing a good enough F2P experience that the customer is happy, but leaves lots of options for the customer to pay for.  It tends to turn up more in the F2P games because there's no monthly fee required, so they have to get money from somewhere.  The theory is that Nexon suggested this course of action to NCSoft, but I don't know if there's any proof.  What can be shown is that GW2 takes a different approach to max stats than GW 1 did.

Disclaimer: This is all from my understanding of the article; I never played GW 1 or 2.

Apparently GW1 used to have a hard max cap on stats.  When you hit it, that was it for your character - you couldn't get more powerful.  You might get more skills or different skins for things, but no more power.

GW2 has a scheme where the max stats keep going up, so you have to keep grinding better gear to keep up with the ever increasing cap.  They also allow you to buy in-game currency to avoid the grind and just get the gear directly from the in-game vendors.    This is where the pay-to-win label comes from.  You can buy in-game effectiveness with real-world cash without having to grind for it.

By contrast (at least the last time I played) WoW will only let you buy in game cosmetic items like mounts and pets.  They have no mechanical difference with the in-game items; they're just different/fancier.  If you want the top end gear, you have to earn it in-game by raiding or PvP.

All this said, Monetization doesn't always mean Pay to Win.  CoH had powers that you had to buy in the store if you weren't a Premium member, but were available to Premium members for no additional charge.  Character slots were another; Premium players had lots, but F2P only had 4(?) unless they bought more.  Costume slots/items are another thing that can be monetized.  These are ways to extract money from the customer.  That's not a bad thing because the F2P model only works if enough free players buy stuff to keep the lights on.

As for GW2, as far as I know it's still running, but I wouldn't get attached to it.  There's no monthy fees and other than the initial box purchase, the only sourse of income for NCSoft is monetization.  If the money doesn't roll in, I don't think they'll keep operating the servers at a loss.

[Victoria Victrix]

Good definition.

Like, the costume packs that came free with new issues of CoH you now had to pay for (some of them, anyway).

Now it can be done well, or it can be done the greedy scum-sucking Nexon way.

Doing it well means that you don't sell anything fundamentally game-changing.  Cosmetic stuff, sure.  And you can sell things that are a help (think purple recipes) but you should also make those drop in the game as well.  Basically anything that gives you a distinct advantage in the game should also be available as a drop or for some form of "money" you can earn as a drop in the game.

Doing it the greedy, scum-sucking Nexon way means that after a certain point in the game, you simply cannot play the game without paying extra money to the store for gear.  I have heard of some Nexon games where you can't fight even-con minions one on one without faceplanting unless you have bought store gear.  There are hints that if Nexon has its way, this is the direction GW2 will be going.  Larry has heard the same disturbing rumors from sources other than this one.  It does seem to be the way they work in their 2D games.

[houtex]

<blink, blink>  How did we get from a question about what paying to win means to disparaging your character?
Don't shoot the messenger.  When people use the phrase "paying to win" in reference to an MMO, they usually mean buying in-game non-cosmetic improvements.  I'm not trying to defend it, just to answer your question.  You may play to enjoy, but lots of people define their own win condition, then go out to achieve it.

<voice of Jack's Philly Cousin> I'm just bustin' yer chops. </voice of Jack's Philly Cousin>

I grok what you're sayin'.  While I don't fully understand that mindset of 'winning an MMO', I get it.  I'll conceed the point of 'there are thems out there what do that' and go along my merry way.

/I sometimes forget my 'sarcastic-not-meant-to-attack-anyone' tones don't work here because it's text.  My bad.  I'll be better in the future.

[Kistulot]

I will say in defense of GW2 so far that there hasn't been a lot of pay-for-power that I've personally witnessed...

But honestly, the reason we as gamer should be upset? The game still isn't everything it promised to be on release, and their handling of bugs feels like a mess.

There's still no guesting across servers which was a feature they harped on pretty heavily. Play with your friends! Except that it doesn't work. And if you swap servers, you have to get lucky to be able to swap back - and you lose out on guild benefits while on a server other than the server the guild originated on.

They've taken steps to make it harder to grief (as for awhile you could do the equivilent of a tf/trial, kick out people, and replace them with guildies for the rewards) but a lot of content is broken and remains broken. They show more concern over the ingame economy than anything else. So far their monetization hasn't felt bad, but plenty else drove me from being able to play much at all. It has fun gameplay aspects, but if heavy monetization kicks in too I think it'll be pretty well ruined.

Lucky for me, I got well over the price of the box in enjoyment already.

[Victoria Victrix]

I will say in defense of GW2 so far that there hasn't been a lot of pay-for-power that I've personally witnessed...

But honestly, the reason we as gamer should be upset? The game still isn't everything it promised to be on release, and their handling of bugs feels like a mess.

There's still no guesting across servers which was a feature they harped on pretty heavily. Play with your friends! Except that it doesn't work. And if you swap servers, you have to get lucky to be able to swap back - and you lose out on guild benefits while on a server other than the server the guild originated on.

They've taken steps to make it harder to grief (as for awhile you could do the equivilent of a tf/trial, kick out people, and replace them with guildies for the rewards) but a lot of content is broken and remains broken. They show more concern over the ingame economy than anything else. So far their monetization hasn't felt bad, but plenty else drove me from being able to play much at all. It has fun gameplay aspects, but if heavy monetization kicks in too I think it'll be pretty well ruined.

Lucky for me, I got well over the price of the box in enjoyment already.

I'm not going to piss on anyone else's game that they are actually enjoying.

I am going to point to the rotting corpses that NCSoft has left in its wake as a cautionary note not to get too attached.  I sincerely and deeply hope that you never find yourself in the position that I am in.  I am now living a life almost completely isolated from people who were at least casual friends.  I am deeply grieving in the real sense for something like 60 "babies," several of whom I have spent seven years building, living through their joys and sorrows, creating them in a more visceral sense than any of my book characters.  They are gone.  Gone before I had a chance to finish their stories, cut off as senselessly and cruelly as if they had been stood up against a wall and shot in the prime of their lives.  They were my friends as well as my creations.

I would not wish my current emotional state on my worst enemy.

Edit: I wish for every single NCSoft executive responsible for this to feel exactly what I am feeling right now. 

[Celtic Lass]

I'm not going to piss on anyone else's game that they are actually enjoying.

I am going to point to the rotting corpses that NCSoft has left in its wake as a cautionary note not to get too attached.  I sincerely and deeply hope that you never find yourself in the position that I am in.  I am now living a life almost completely isolated from people who were at least casual friends.  I am deeply grieving in the real sense for something like 60 "babies," several of whom I have spent seven years building, living through their joys and sorrows, creating them in a more visceral sense than any of my book characters.  They are gone.  Gone before I had a chance to finish their stories, cut off as senselessly and cruelly as if they had been stood up against a wall and shot in the prime of their lives.  They were my friends as well as my creations.

I would not wish my current emotional state on my worst enemy.

Edit: I wish for every single NCSoft executive responsible for this to feel exactly what I am feeling right now. 

You don't know me, but I hope that at one point over the last 7 years that our "babies" played in the same play-pin at some point.

I know exactly how you are feeling, Victoria.  I was one of the players who came before F2P, so I had literally double digit characters.  My first and main character: Celtic Lass, was probably my favorite (and my first 50)  and due to the way that NCSoft had restructured the game, I couldn't access her.  She was locked away the night the lights went dark on our city of Paragon.  I wound up having to spend that last night on one of my alts that I did manage to unlock.

Although all of our reasons for bereavement may be different, we are all still angry and hurt... the suspicious nature of the announcement and closure of of CoX within mere months of each other not withstanding.  You are not alone.  All of us here feel your pain.  The need to reconnect with people who played this game and loved it as much as I did is the whole reason I sought Titan out in the first place.  I hope you can find some comfort here.

[Feycat]

NCSoft owns GW2.  Nexon has a 15% share in NCSoft which gives them a little latitude to make 'suggestions'.  NCSoft hired Nexon's former Monetization Manager to get more money out of GW2.  A Monetzation Manager is someone who helps a company make money by providing a good enough F2P experience that the customer is happy, but leaves lots of options for the customer to pay for.  It tends to turn up more in the F2P games because there's no monthly fee required, so they have to get money from somewhere.  The theory is that Nexon suggested this course of action to NCSoft, but I don't know if there's any proof.  What can be shown is that GW2 takes a different approach to max stats than GW 1 did.

Disclaimer: This is all from my understanding of the article; I never played GW 1 or 2.

Apparently GW1 used to have a hard max cap on stats.  When you hit it, that was it for your character - you couldn't get more powerful.  You might get more skills or different skins for things, but no more power.

GW2 has a scheme where the max stats keep going up, so you have to keep grinding better gear to keep up with the ever increasing cap.  They also allow you to buy in-game currency to avoid the grind and just get the gear directly from the in-game vendors.    This is where the pay-to-win label comes from.  You can buy in-game effectiveness with real-world cash without having to grind for it.

By contrast (at least the last time I played) WoW will only let you buy in game cosmetic items like mounts and pets.  They have no mechanical difference with the in-game items; they're just different/fancier.  If you want the top end gear, you have to earn it in-game by raiding or PvP.

All this said, Monetization doesn't always mean Pay to Win.  CoH had powers that you had to buy in the store if you weren't a Premium member, but were available to Premium members for no additional charge.  Character slots were another; Premium players had lots, but F2P only had 4(?) unless they bought more.  Costume slots/items are another thing that can be monetized.  These are ways to extract money from the customer.  That's not a bad thing because the F2P model only works if enough free players buy stuff to keep the lights on.

As for GW2, as far as I know it's still running, but I wouldn't get attached to it.  There's no monthy fees and other than the initial box purchase, the only sourse of income for NCSoft is monetization.  If the money doesn't roll in, I don't think they'll keep operating the servers at a loss.

The problem is that, like Father Xmas says, the article is untrue.

The monetization manager who worked at Nexon? Was hired last MAY. She's been there the whole time. She's probably the reason the GW2 cash store is mostly boosters and gamble boxes and is very skimpy in the things that successful American-MMO cash shops (COH, LOTRO among others) are full of - cosmetics.

There IS no pay to win. You CANNOT buy the Ascendant gear. You can't buy it with Gems (Paragon Points equivalent) and you can't buy it with in-game gold. You can't buy it. You have to play the game for it.

Is the Acendant gear a departure from their earlier philosophy and is it too grindy? That point is very debatable, and in their latest AMA, the dev in charge of it has said they rolled it out poorly, and it's being re-evaluated and balanced.

But it is NOT pay to win.

This article is a pile of debunked garbage from someone with an axe to grind.

As for "don't get attached to GW2?" It has EXACTLY the same payment system as GW1, which rolled out shortly after COH and is still running. Server cost is almost nothing to maintain an MMO in skeleton mode (which is part of why I was so pissed they didn't do that with COH - it doesn't cost anything to leave a server running)

GW2 continues to make gobs of money, and GW2 is rolling out brand new content every single month so far. They plan to have expansion-level stuff every 6-8 months. And they've added content to the gem store with every content - most of it limited-time gamble boxes, true, but containing a chance at some very cool skins. I know a lot of people who've sunk a lot of real $$ into gems for those things.

GW2 is healthy and doing fine.

[Illusionss]

I am going to point to the rotting corpses that NCSoft has left in its wake as a cautionary note not to get too attached.  I sincerely and deeply hope that you never find yourself in the position that I am in.  I am now living a life almost completely isolated from people who were at least casual friends.  I am deeply grieving in the real sense for something like 60 "babies," several of whom I have spent seven years building, living through their joys and sorrows, creating them in a more visceral sense than any of my book characters.  They are gone.  Gone before I had a chance to finish their stories, cut off as senselessly and cruelly as if they had been stood up against a wall and shot in the prime of their lives.  They were my friends as well as my creations.

I would not wish my current emotional state on my worst enemy.

Edit: I wish for every single NCSoft executive responsible for this to feel exactly what I am feeling right now.

And..................... THIS.

I feel actual hate for the people who took my virtual children away from me. [I only had about 39 alts I played ona regular basis.] I can create Broadsword Scrappers in other games, many of my CoX children i cant. Especially SoAs. There are others.

May the Great Wheel of Karma roll right back around - and over those fools.

[FatherXmas]

I will openly admit to playing Guild Wars 2.  However there is no way for me to get overly attached to my characters simply because like most MMOs, the universe is very tightly focused. 

The thing about City of Heroes is your character could be of whatever origin you could imagine.  You weren't limited to either a fantasy/armor/swords world or a tech/body armor/guns world or a post apocalyptic/mutation/power armor world.  All three could be represented equally well.  Then of course we had bios, short as they may have been and the ability to make our character look the way we wanted out of the box (barring vet/paid costume sets).

What made CoH special for me and I assume many others is your character is ... well yours, assuming you have any imagination at all, and not just some creative choice for name and one of a hand full of body types.  The fact that all these characters, "from all walks of life" (starts 50 seconds in) could coexist fighting forces of crime, alien invasion, supernatural threats and giant monsters allowed stories that couldn't be told in the usual pigeon hole design of most MMOs.  It made everyone feel unique and unique allows you to become attached.

I have a Norn Mesmer (race/class) in GW2.  All of her attacks (10 + 2) are the same as all other Norn Mesmers.  I'm not sure if other races have the same attacks with their Mesmer class.  Other than tweaking my face, tattoo and hairstyle and primary choice of color scheme for armor/clothes, we Norns all look alike.

Time is also an element when it comes to attachment.  Father Xmas was created late August 2004, soon after I started playing.  There really hasn't been a game that I've played this long, not regularly and if an RPG, not with the same characters.  It was the combination of time with the genre neutral and unique appearance that allowed me to become attached to them.  I don't believe any other game will stir that feeling in me anytime soon.

[DrakeGrimm]

And..................... THIS.

I feel actual hate for the people who took my virtual children away from me. [I only had about 39 alts I played ona regular basis.] I can create Broadsword Scrappers in other games, many of my CoX children i cant. Especially SoAs. There are others.

May the Great Wheel of Karma roll right back around - and over those fools.

And if we give the Great Wheel a little nudge...well... "oops." >.>

[Feycat]

I have a Norn Mesmer (race/class) in GW2.  All of her attacks (10 + 2) are the same as all other Norn Mesmers.  I'm not sure if other races have the same attacks with their Mesmer class.  Other than tweaking my face, tattoo and hairstyle and primary choice of color scheme for armor/clothes, we Norns all look alike.

I think it's unfair to compare ANY MMO's character creation system, or ability for uniqueness to COH. No one else is ever going to touch it - not even another super-hero MMO like CO or DCO, because COH wasn't just a superhero game. It let you be anything, almost. That sort of freedom is, I honestly believe, a huge part of what made the game great, and made repeating the same basic content over and over so much fun - because a different character was like a whole new game, especially if you're an RPer.

That being said, I can't agree with your assesment that "all Norns look alike," or that character customization is lacking in GW2. For the genre it belongs to, GW2 is really above and beyond in terms of what we're allowed to do with our looks. In WoW or SWTOR or LOTRO, yes, all "Elf/Troll/Twi'leks" look alike, because there's only a small, set number of templates to choose from, and gear is attached to looks.

I could make you some screenshots (maybe I will when my new HD gets here and I can play again!) of a lineup of Norns, all of the same class, and none of them looking much like each other. My first COH character, Trillium, is actually an old Amber Diceless Tabletop character that I've ported into every MMO I've played at one point or another. Nowhere except GW2 was I able to mold her facial features to really make her look like herself. I sure do miss her horse legs (and I never got my horsey tail! *cries*) but facially, there is not another Norn that looks like her, and she's excessively short. Add the transmutation stone factor (I can choose exactly what armor, of any level, that I want to wear, obtain that armor from a vendor or the Trading Post, and put it on my character at any level, then use dye to change the colors) and there are very few characters wearing my armor, either.

Gameplay is also very different depending on the weapons you choose. I've got two rangers - one uses cats and a longbow/greatsword, and has gone full beastmastery with lots of "buff my pet" skills - the other uses axe and warhorn and uses lots of traps, getting right in combat alongside her dogs. They play COMPLETELY differently. They're honestly like 2 different classes. My best friend and I each play every class, and we don't play anything alike when playing the same class. It's pretty nifty.

[CG]

I realize that you like GW2, but this isn't a forum where GW2 is going to be popular.  Feel free to challenge things that are factually incorrect, but trying to get people to agree with your opinion that GW2 is a great game is going to be like tilting at windmills.

Our favourite got dumped and the new favourite isn't going to get anything but catty remarks.  That's just how it is.

[Kistulot]

Our favourite got dumped and the new favourite isn't going to get anything but catty remarks.  That's just how it is.

No, that doesn't need to be how it is. The CoH community was known for being bigger than that.

Yeah, it sucks that we lost CoH. But we can't lose part of what makes us awesome (being the best MMO community -ever-) because we're sore over it.

[Feycat]

I realize that you like GW2, but this isn't a forum where GW2 is going to be popular.  Feel free to challenge things that are factually incorrect, but trying to get people to agree with your opinion that GW2 is a great game is going to be like tilting at windmills.

Our favourite got dumped and the new favourite isn't going to get anything but catty remarks.  That's just how it is.

That's what I'm trying to do - correct misinformation and expand on misimpressions. I honestly do not give a crap if anyone else thinks GW2 is a great game or not. I have a lifetime sub to LOTRO and I hate it - I played SWTOR for the free month and couldn't bear another moment of that game. That doesn't make them bad games - it means they didn't do it for me, or they changed development mid-game and "ruined" what I liked about them. I can discuss WHAT I didn't like about them in a factual way without being a snot or hoping they fail, even if I think they deserve to fail, you know?

It doesn't HAVE to be that way. We don't HAVE to throw catty remarks at GW2, it's not necessary and it's not productive.

[CG]

I made no comment on whether it was right or wrong.  It's human nature.  Eventually, we (as a community) will be able to talk about this rationally, but it's a little soon to expect that, IMO.  If you want to fight against that, go for it.

[Feycat]

I made no comment on whether it was right or wrong.  It's human nature.  Eventually, we (as a community) will be able to talk about this rationally, but it's a little soon to expect that, IMO.  If you want to fight against that, go for it.

Hey, I'm a hero, this is what we do. Right?

[Colette]

Yup. I appreciate the cautionary notes, Feycat. I for one know nothing of Guild Wars, but hopefully it'll all work out for the best, even for Guild Wars players, that NCSoft learns not to trample the players of any of their games in their pursuit of profits.

[Feycat]

Yup. I appreciate the cautionary notes, Feycat. I for one know nothing of Guild Wars, but hopefully it'll all work out for the best, even for Guild Wars players, that NCSoft learns not to trample the players of any of their games in their pursuit of profits.

I'd really like to see all MMOs go the way of Minecraft - you buy the box, you host your own servers if you want to play with friends, or play single player if you don't - and they send out updates. The same way that Steam games and Xbox games work. There's no reason that we shouldn't own the MMOs we buy and pay for. If NCsoft wants to shut down our servers, fine, and cut off our developers from making more (paid) expansions, that's their right. But I can't see how we don't have the right to play the game on different servers, or to have people make and put out their own content upgrades and mods if they can figure out the coding.

[Little Green Frog]

I'd really like to see all MMOs go the way of Minecraft - you buy the box, you host your own servers if you want to play with friends, or play single player if you don't - and they send out updates. The same way that Steam games and Xbox games work. There's no reason that we shouldn't own the MMOs we buy and pay for. If NCsoft wants to shut down our servers, fine, and cut off our developers from making more (paid) expansions, that's their right. But I can't see how we don't have the right to play the game on different servers, or to have people make and put out their own content upgrades and mods if they can figure out the coding.

I wholeheartedly agree. I think that every closure of a darling MMO brings us closer to the point when game publishers will have to somehow assure potential players that the game will not simply evaporate one day.

[dwturducken]

Really, this is the crux of what we're trying to convey to the players of other games. It's not a Guild Wars hatefest. It's, "Hey, our game was going strong, too, and look what happened."

(Full disclosure: I played GW1 to about lvl17 in the original game, no expansions or other stuff. It got boring and grindy. I got to a point where I felt like I "needed" at least one other player in my party, and there never seemed to be anyone on who needed to do what I was doing or was willing to help, even if they didn't. In short, I got bored and have never really been at all interested in picking it back up. That's not hate; I just have no real interest in buying the second one when the first one couldn't hold my interest.)

[FatherXmas]

I think it's unfair to compare ANY MMO's character creation system, or ability for uniqueness to COH. No one else is ever going to touch it - not even another super-hero MMO like CO or DCO, because COH wasn't just a superhero game. It let you be anything, almost. That sort of freedom is, I honestly believe, a huge part of what made the game great, and made repeating the same basic content over and over so much fun - because a different character was like a whole new game, especially if you're an RPer.

That being said, I can't agree with your assesment that "all Norns look alike," or that character customization is lacking in GW2. For the genre it belongs to, GW2 is really above and beyond in terms of what we're allowed to do with our looks. In WoW or SWTOR or LOTRO, yes, all "Elf/unicorn/Twi'leks" look alike, because there's only a small, set number of templates to choose from, and gear is attached to looks.

I could make you some screenshots (maybe I will when my new HD gets here and I can play again!) of a lineup of Norns, all of the same class, and none of them looking much like each other. My first COH character, Trillium, is actually an old Amber Diceless Tabletop character that I've ported into every MMO I've played at one point or another. Nowhere except GW2 was I able to mold her facial features to really make her look like herself. I sure do miss her horse legs (and I never got my horsey tail! *cries*) but facially, there is not another Norn that looks like her, and she's excessively short. Add the transmutation stone factor (I can choose exactly what armor, of any level, that I want to wear, obtain that armor from a vendor or the Trading Post, and put it on my character at any level, then use dye to change the colors) and there are very few characters wearing my armor, either.

Gameplay is also very different depending on the weapons you choose. I've got two rangers - one uses cats and a longbow/greatsword, and has gone full beastmastery with lots of "buff my pet" skills - the other uses axe and warhorn and uses lots of traps, getting right in combat alongside her dogs. They play COMPLETELY differently. They're honestly like 2 different classes. My best friend and I each play every class, and we don't play anything alike when playing the same class. It's pretty nifty.

Well I only have one character so far and yes she's unlocked all of the various weapon skills on all usable mesmer weapons.

And yes, it does have an impressive face editor and if I want to play Barbie makeup studio/plastic surgery, or have any skill other than making one of the dozen plus premade faces uglier, I'm sure I would love it.

But armor is armor.  Now I'm only level 25 and maybe the higher level armors have more variations but since I can't try them on to see what each look like when I do have a choice it's a blind pick solely by stats and not by looks.

The game only has body types to choose from and not body sliders.  I can understand why technically (fewer clipping issues for outfits) and visually (it's covered in armor most of the time (except for a group of players that appear to play without armor as a challenge).

Height ranges are limited by race.  I can't have a tiny Norn for instance.  If I want tiny I must play either a Cabbage Patch kid (Sylvari for those who don't play) or Experiment 626 (well I think the Asura look like Stitch).

So to me, due to the lack of variations other than the head on Norns, I do think they all (race+class+weapon wielded) look alike.

But my original point, which obviously I didn't make clear enough in response to VV's warning about becoming too attach is that all the inherent limitations in both character creation, clothing choices, origins, powers/skills of other MMOs including GW2, makes it unlikely that I would grow attach to my characters the way I did with CoH.  So the "sudden but inevitable betrayal" won't feel like a friend taken away in the prime of their life.

[Feycat]

Height ranges are limited by race.  I can't have a tiny Norn for instance.  If I want tiny I must play either a Cabbage Patch kid (Sylvari for those who don't play) or Experiment 626 (well I think the Asura look like Stitch).

Hehe, I have a tiny Norn. She's as tiny as a Norn CAN be, which means I regularly encounter humans as tall or slightly taller than me, and I'm about chest-high on other Norns. It's a pretty profound height difference.

They're working on letting us preview things on the TP, but you can preview items in-game by going to the Mists and using the PvP locker, and you can preview things on vendors - including dungeon vendors in Lion's Arch. You can also use sites like Dulfy's (http://dulfy.net/category/gw2/fashion-gw2/) to get a general idea of the kind of looks that are available. I've spent hours playing mix and match in the PvP locker to work out my looks, making sure that each character's outfit expresses their personality best. It's not the tailor, but it's pretty awesome for a S&S MMO.

[Kistulot]

Hehe, I have a tiny Norn. She's as tiny as a Norn CAN be, which means I regularly encounter humans as tall or slightly taller than me, and I'm about chest-high on other Norns. It's a pretty profound height difference.

Try being a small human - you get Asura that look like they're about to look down on you!

[Feycat]

Try being a small human - you get Asura that look like they're about to look down on you!

LOL, most of my characters are on the tiny end of any height scale (seriously, I do not know. I mean, I'm slightly-shorter-than-average in real life, but my characters are almost universally "as small as they can be!") so one of my human girls is quite wee. The other is normal height.

Tiny charrs are hilarious.

My main/first sylvari is so tiny that I met a max-height Asura the other day that could nearly look her in the eye. Many laughs were had!

[FatherXmas]

Hehe, I have a tiny Norn. She's as tiny as a Norn CAN be, which means I regularly encounter humans as tall or slightly taller than me, and I'm about chest-high on other Norns. It's a pretty profound height difference.

They're working on letting us preview things on the TP, but you can preview items in-game by going to the Mists and using the PvP locker, and you can preview things on vendors - including dungeon vendors in Lion's Arch. You can also use sites like Dulfy's (http://dulfy.net/category/gw2/fashion-gw2/) to get a general idea of the kind of looks that are available. I've spent hours playing mix and match in the PvP locker to work out my looks, making sure that each character's outfit expresses their personality best. It's not the tailor, but it's pretty awesome for a S&S MMO.

My norn is also minimum height.  I wanted her to be the runt of the litter so to speak.  But still she's not that short.  Still most sylvari come up to her armpit and asura to her waist.

Yea, well I've had the game for only a week now, I don't even know about those places as no in game information as talked about them.  I'm not in a guild, I stay away from anything labeled PvP and only found the official wiki as a source of information, which doesn't have the same dedication to documenting everything down to the minutia that ParagonWiki did.

Well thanks for the link to Duffy's.

[Feycat]

My norn is also minimum height.  I wanted her to be the runt of the litter so to speak.  But still she's not that short.  Still most sylvari come up to her armpit and asura to her waist.

Yea, well I've had the game for only a week now, I don't even know about those places as no in game information as talked about them.  I'm not in a guild, I stay away from anything labeled PvP and only found the official wiki as a source of information, which doesn't have the same dedication to documenting everything down to the minutia that ParagonWiki did.

Well thanks for the link to Duffy's.

I am absolutely glad to help - you can give me a whisper in-game anytime and I can help you if you have any questions or whatnot. You can go into the Mists and use the PvP armor locker without ever engaging in PvP - it also acts as an "Oro" portal to Lion's Arch, for free, from anywhere.

[Illusionss]

Off-tangent: perhaps one of the most amazing things about GW2 is the water effects. You can have deep water, fully populated by rocks, water plants and fish and other things. No feet cut off at the ankles.... you can even swim around underwater. Yes! My Norn girl is not all that graceful in the water - not to mention, there tend to be enemies in the water in the beginning Norn zone - but my Sylvari girl is having THE MOST FUN EVER swimming all over the place underwater. She's here, there and everywhere, just having a blast. She swims more gracefully, too and the fish there are not hostile. Who cares about leveling, I am gonna go SWIMMING! There's even lily pads on the surface, its enough to make you squee with delight.

One thing that kind of bugs me in GW2 is the limitation on skin color. I want to have a Blue Norn with white tattoos (OMG TATTOOS! SWOON!) but no dice. And only Sylvari can be green, as far as I can see. Bummer, I like to make blue people. I had several in CoX. Green people too!

[FatherXmas]

I was trying to make a Norn redhead, nope only reddish brown, heavy on the brown.  Yes I was attempting to remake my half-kitsune illusionist.

[healix]

FatherXmas, I have had this screenie for a long time..is this you, or an imposter? LOLOL

[FatherXmas]

FatherXmas, I have had this screenie for a long time..is this you, or an imposter? LOLOL

Nope not me.  It was an often duplicated basic design, being Santa and all.  I was on Victory and met a clone during the first winter event called something along the lines "Saint Snick", a claws scraper of course.

[Illusionss]

I was trying to make a Norn redhead, nope only reddish brown, heavy on the brown.  Yes I was attempting to remake my half-kitsune illusionist.

One thing that annoys me is the faded, dusty quality of almost all colors there. You have almost no primary colors. You do not have access to black, except for black hair - which you cant use because if its all black, all the detail disappears. NO BLACK COSTUMES: this is a disaster. RED-red hair is not an option, unless I missed it somewheres. Most of the female faces have a more than slightly childish cast. Everyone is mild and happy, or pretty neutral, expression-wise: there are not really any aggressive, "evil" faces, or any "bombshell"-style female beauties. You can't really apply makeup, no one in GW2 has access to lipstick, for instance. (sigh) Everyone is a hero in GW2. I cant tell you how boring I find that.

I do very much miss CoX's vibrant pallette. A combination of GW2's and CoX's color pallettes would be ideal! Sometimes I might want to use those dusty color choices, but everything looking faded all of the time is just so... ugh.

I felt like my CoX people were adults. I dont really feel that about my GW2 people, despite my best efforts.