Author Topic: Blog post on MMORPG: NCsoft "sold out" Guild Wars  (Read 19753 times)

Noyjitat

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Blog post on MMORPG: NCsoft "sold out" Guild Wars
« on: November 23, 2012, 11:58:02 PM »
Yet another thing to get your blood boiling. I'm effin pissed. http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs.cfm/blogId/1209/entry/24237/utm_campaign/MMORPG%20Daily%20Digest%20Email/utm_source/MMORPG/utm_medium



[EDIT: I changed the title of the post to be less misleading. Previously, "Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough...." ~Agge]
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 02:27:59 PM by Aggelakis »

ohms

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 12:15:18 AM »
The article heading states that they were "sold out" not that they had been sold.

Jetfire99

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 12:22:13 AM »
IF GW's players are getting hosed too I'll welcome them to join our efforts to also save their game as well.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 02:06:44 AM »
This is probably the "smoking gun" that explains WHO ordered the cancellation of CoH and WHY.

WHO:  Nexon

WHY: Because Paragon Studios either could not or would not monetize the Ascendant and enhancement systems and turn CoH into yet another gold-farming Korean Grind.
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Osborn

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 03:22:02 AM »
This is probably the "smoking gun" that explains WHO ordered the cancellation of CoH and WHY.

WHO:  Nexon

WHY: Because Paragon Studios either could not or would not monetize the Ascendant and enhancement systems and turn CoH into yet another gold-farming Korean Grind.

The funny thing though is that Paragon Studios was monetizing both of those systems. Incarnate was VIP only. Account-Bound Enhancements were being sold on the market place. Invention required either a very high tier reward, a monthly pass or VIP. All of that IS monetizing those systems. Even if you feel said systems was 'fair' and I personally do mostly*.

And yet despite that, I can't really fault your evaluation of the situation. Nexon and Perfect World doesn't seem to understand how to make a proper Free to Play game without coming off as nickle and diming. That stuff works in Korea, I guess, because they have more disposable income and are a lot less hesitant in spending it and are a lot more accommodating to bizarre and terrible BS from corporations. But here it just makes them into the video game equivalent of the knock off toy salesman. And then they do poorly in the West and wonder why.

*(Personally, I would had never separated VIP and Premium players by zone or by server, and I would had made everything in the game available on the PP Market, even if it was by a month ticket. The mindset you have to get into with F2P is that your players are your walking advertisement for things. I know almost everything I bought on the Paragon Market or the Super Packs I bought were from seeing somebody wearing a fox tail or something and being like "Where did that come from?", them telling me, and me buying it. You also have to get into the mindset that the Premium set up is to get money out of people who are unable or unwilling to commit a monthly fee to a game, but will still like to pay money to the game, not as a method to 'force' them to subscribe later. I know my VIP lapsed occasionally due to personal economic instability where I was capable in 'bursts' to spend, but not commit to a trick of spending and uncertain of spending on long-term subscriptions (not for fear of the game going under, but fear that my job situation wouldn't leave me free time that month or another to play, period). I've probably spent more money per month during my Premium time than I did during my VIP time. They shouldn't had and shouldn't had encouraged their community to treat the Premium players like moochers.. but that's waaaay off topic)

Cinnder

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 06:34:42 AM »
I have to agree 100% with you here. Paragon Studios quite possibly *over* monetized the game, and also left parts of the game entirely cut out from the "non subscribers" (Incarnate content) if they didn't subscribe. It wouldn't have been so bad if there was a license that you could get (travel zone pass into the "restricted zones" as it were). But for a F2P game, it really did irk me.

I assume they wanted to keep some people subscribing.  What's the incentive to subscribe if it doesn't provide access to some exclusive stuff?  I think it has to be more than just a cost-savings option to access all the same content -- that could just be a "sale package" on the market.

Noyjitat

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 06:54:20 AM »
Exactly, which I guess what happens when you just google stuff, and don't actually bother reading the article.

Although in this case, considering what was said in the article would you *really* want stuff like that to happen to us?

Answers on a post card please...

I didn't google it, I was pointed to it by someone else. And it looks to be true.

Lily Barclay

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 07:50:38 AM »
I didn't google it, I was pointed to it by someone else. And it looks to be true.

The article isn't saying NCSoft sold Guildwars. It says it sold them out. As in screwed over their player base for profit.

Also, this is a blog, not a real article I don't think. The writer didn't bother to even source his information, and got snooty when people asked him to. I have a hard time taking it seriously.

LadyWizard

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 10:22:01 AM »
Also they're repeating the NCSoft and Nexon trying to buy valve thing when owner of valve flatout said he'd destroy the company before he'd let that happen if I recall correct

Quinch

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 10:35:24 AM »
Yeah, the Valve angle is pointlessly alarmist and just hurts the credibility of the rest of the article; Gaben pretty much went out and said he'd rather burn the company to the ground than sell out {not in those words, but same gist}. Not that Nexon or any other company wouldn't try, but I don't see it happening as long as the Willy Wonka of game industry is in charge.

redgiant

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2012, 10:59:46 AM »
I am sure there were devs who still hated going f2p to begin with. All they wanted to do was continue making a great, cohesive game without all the slapped on artifical nonsense f2p pushes you toward. It probably embarassed them, because devs just want to make a fun and complete game experience and to be proud of their work. Oh, they know the story on why they had to try moving in that direction, but that doesn't mean they liked it.

They also know their customer base, and they knew that they had to continue offering a normal sub that was as close to the same as it had been before f2p as possible from a "feel" perspective, while also allowing new or returning folks without a sub to trial the game and hopefully sub.

What I'm getting at is, unlike most f2p games the goal of CoH was to get people to sub again by using f2p as a trial carrot, more than a permanent state for someone to play like that. They wanted enough f2p friction to entice you to sub.

Frankly, f2p games that _do_ rely on the plan of not caring if you sub because they can trick the average idiot to pay even more than $15/month have to rig their fundamental game structure so ludicrously you'd have to be legally brain dead not to get annoyed by it.

Guess which kind dominates the Korean market.

(Disclaimer: I come from the UO, EQ, DAoC, COH, AC, SB era though, so I am biased and still laugh uncontrollably at the feeble masquerade of f2p.)


Cinnder

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 12:08:16 PM »
I agree, redgian.

I think the industry could benefit from having two different terms for f2p that make a clear distinction between a purely "a la carte" game that has no subscription and one like CoH, which is really a subscription game that has a limited free option.  Using the same term for both models seems to result in confused expectations.

BTW, I find it interesting that SWTOR seems for once to be following the lead of a game other than WoW in its version of f2p, which is a lot closer to the CoH subscription-encouraging model.

Lily Barclay

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2012, 02:01:10 PM »
Also they're repeating the NCSoft and Nexon trying to buy valve thing when owner of valve flatout said he'd destroy the company before he'd let that happen if I recall correct

Yeah that's the main reason I question the post.

Lily Barclay

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 09:12:56 PM »


It also looks like it learnt from City of Heroes and actually made it possible for a "non subscriber" to actually participate in end game content...

Not really. It has gimped the free player so bad, they would be a burden to have on a team for the end game stuff. The only way they could really participate fully would be if they paid to unlock gear and quick bars. Also, the currency cap doesn't even allow you enough to buy your final skills in one shot.

Lily Barclay

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2012, 06:58:08 AM »

Osborn

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2012, 08:43:21 AM »
To many game creators are 'stuck' in the mindset that if they're not making 15 a month from you every month they're making nothing, even if you spend twice that much. They seem to treat the 'Premium' players as a nuisance.

I don't think I'd ever really spend more than 5 dollars on ST:TOR because the game is steeped in treating the 'Preferred' player as baggage.

The way the F2P model works and generates revenue isn't by being a stealth subscription model with an extended demo. It works by treating both the subscriber and the 'Premium' player as paid customers and giving them relatively equal value for their dollar.

CoH soooorta kiiiinda understood that with the Reward Tokens and Reward Tiers, at least for a bit. The price to unlock some of the later tiers was retarded for most people. I had most of mine unlocked instantly just from vets. So maybe I'm a bit biased on it. But I didn't feel like the game was actively trying to drive me away unless I subscribed.

Star Wars seems like a fun enough game, but the game does seem like it's trying its hardest to drive away the Preferred or Free players. Some of the stupidest crap is locked behind paywalls. You have to BUY the ability to modify the GUI and put down quickbars for skills? Come the heck on.

This problem is MOSTLY present in games that are 'forced' to turn F2P. It's like the developers in it only sorta begrudgingly allow it, rather than embrace it, and embrace the idea of making money off the 'Premium' players and treating them like valued customers, and not just the VIP.

It should be about player payment choice, not trying to force them into subscribing. Otherwise just stick to the subscription only model and give out trial demo accounts.

That's my opinion on it anyways.

I assume they wanted to keep some people subscribing.  What's the incentive to subscribe if it doesn't provide access to some exclusive stuff?  I think it has to be more than just a cost-savings option to access all the same content -- that could just be a "sale package" on the market.

Thing was, aside from when I couldn't, I ended up subscribing any time I could, with 2 accounts. Though, as I said, I probably spent more dollar amount on Premium things per month than the subscription, due to sometimes I'd have a good amount of cash to spend, then sometimes I'd have jack nothing, and sometimes my consistent group would just flat up not have time to play. I really did like the premium options, even if I ended up spending more, for the convenience.

I think CoH could had done the F2P a LOT better, but some companies are just HORRIBLE at it, where Premium or F2P is basically just there to try to convince you to subscribe.

But a lot of players in CoH were really snobbish and acted like if you spend 30 dollars a month on the game you aren't a 'real' customer compared to their 11.99/month but spent all up front. That bothered me a lot.

Also they're repeating the NCSoft and Nexon trying to buy valve thing when owner of valve flatout said he'd destroy the company before he'd let that happen if I recall correct

Monitary wise, Valve would be in the better position to buy Nexon and NCSoft, so that's just kinda stupid anyways.

Not saying either's likely.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 08:56:09 AM by Osborn »

Quinch

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Re: Blog post on MMORPG: NCsoft "sold out" Guild Wars
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2012, 08:47:45 AM »
The thing that pissed me off most of all, more than the clunky interface {and that's saying something, considering I'm a UI primadonna} and lack of preview was the fact that there was no way at all to gift anything, whether for the in-game store, or master account purchases.

Remember those dollar starter pack offers? I would've bought a dozen {instead of only two} and handed them out to people if I didn't have to set up each account manually.

I mean seriously. Gifting online purchases is not an optional thing anymore.

Osborn

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Re: Blog post on MMORPG: NCsoft "sold out" Guild Wars
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2012, 08:57:34 AM »
The thing that pissed me off most of all, more than the clunky interface {and that's saying something, considering I'm a UI primadonna} and lack of preview was the fact that there was no way at all to gift anything, whether for the in-game store, or master account purchases.

Remember those dollar starter pack offers? I would've bought a dozen {instead of only two} and handed them out to people if I didn't have to set up each account manually.

I mean seriously. Gifting online purchases is not an optional thing anymore.

The lack of preview for what? In CoH?

Quinch

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Re: Blog post on MMORPG: NCsoft "sold out" Guild Wars
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2012, 10:13:27 AM »
Yep, the in-game store.

Turjan

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Re: Well ncsoft sold guildwars but I guess we were not good enough....
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2012, 02:50:51 PM »
But SWtOR has definitely done all they can to make sure no one stays truly free to play.  It's like they are trying to bully players into just subscribing.

But with me, fail they have ;)

I subbed to SWTOR for a couple of months at launch, then let it lapse in a fit of austerity. I did manage to transfer my mains and a bunch of "what happens if I do this?" alts back when learned about the server merger, then left the thing alone again til it went F2P. When I logged in I saw 17 toons in total, and was faced with the prospect of unlocking just 2 if I stayed Freemium.

I couldn't choose, so I simply elected to unlock none of them instead ;D

Then I went off and set up a new totally F2P account in the knowledge that I would be keeping it totally F2P. This was because all the toons I had previous dosh invested in are still frozen in digital carbonite on my original account, and if I want extra content, those are the ones I'd be thawing out with cash. Which I likely won't be doing, because if I was really that bothered, why did I make a new F2P account at all?

So ironically, as long as I have my new F2P account I'm actually less likely to spend real cash on the game! 8)