City of Heroes 2

[corvus1970]

Like I said earlier. I will believe it when I see it.

Furthermore, if they do have plans, they can forget me playing after the crap they pulled on CoX.

[Golden Girl]

Zwil had mentioned CoH2 was going to be done and that Paragon was not working on it.

Don't you think that statement might have generated a couple of posts on the forums?

[Perfidus]

Last I heard about CoH2, it was pitched, and denied by Paragon, in addition to many other things. The only thing that was accepted was ultimately the secret project. But I don't hold to this stance.

[Vak]

I ran across a thread post from a former dev, indicating that CoH2 was being fiddled with in-house at Paragon as sort of a CoH1.5. The idea was that you'd have heroes vs. villains. vs. a new third faction to account for shifting loyalties; very similar to CoH1 but with the combat engine replaced; and tentative plans for character crossover to avoid losing the subscription fees on CoH1 while all this was going on.

It never got too far as delays in other projects in the NCSoft pipeline kept pushing them back. They apparently pulled the plug a couple of years ago as the timeline was pushing them five years out at that point, and they weren't even sure that the tech or MMO sales model would project that far out.

Granted, this was a guy who claimed to be a dev who left Paragon Studios at roughly the same time as Babs. I'll accept it as it makes logical sense, but anything an educated fan could speculate on could make the same claim, so whether or not it holds water can only be confirmed by those who're actually in the know.

And with that said it's a bit academic at this point. If I had probability manipulation powers, I'd grab the CoH IP, and make a deal with Posi and WW to work with Cryptic on a "City of Champions" successor to both games, combining what worked with both, and having Millennium City and Paragon City as wide-open, war-wall free zones in the same game world. But that's not going to happen. Making it about as useful as a plan as any thoughts on a CoH2 that never was. If the hail mary connects, we'll likely see a CoH2 (it wouldn't make sense to invest that sort of cash without a long-term plan), but it'll likely be a lot different than anything they were kicking around back in the day.

[Perfidus]

No offense but I'm glad you won't get to do that. Millennium City is a completely different world than those in CoH. Millennium City is a joke, and doesn't take itself seriously enough to work in a CoH merger.

[Jadenator]

Don't you think that statement might have generated a couple of posts on the forums?

It did.  http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,4960.0.html, which prompted me to watch the video from Sept 5 (which I'm doing now).  I'd search the official forums but they're shut down.  Plus these forums are so popular it's not hard to overlook a post or thread.

[Golden Girl]

It did.  http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,4960.0.html

Where's the mention of making CoH2?

[Jadenator]

Where's the mention of making CoH2?

you didn't read it did you?? 

"I was not able to watch it, but I have read (from many places) the notes on what was said.  A couple of things...

"Super secret project" that they cannot discuss, but was confirmed terminated?  Very odd.  I can't think of what that could have been.  My boyfriend mentioned CoH2, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering the whole studio was laid off. What could they have been working on that NCsoft doesn't want them talking about presently?  Unless it was that other MMO that was greenlit."

She said she couldn't watch it, but clearly her source (her boyfriend) made mention of the secret project and CoH2 from the live stream or else she probably wouldn't have asked.

Like I said I'm watching through the videos in full to find it, once I find it I will link it and at what point it was.  The video from Sept 5 is 90 min long, I'm an hour in.  The license should be enough proof.  NC Soft isn't going to throw money into a title just to have it sit there.  It costs money to license a title and renew it, and it was renewed -recently-.  If they don't have plans for it you really think they'd pit money into it??

[Perfidus]

The developers have constantly said, before and after the announcement, that the super secret project was -not- CoH2. They had plans for it, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't in development. I think it was TonyV that mentioned something about CoH2 taking place on the west coast.

[Jadenator]

The developers have constantly said, before and after the announcement, that the super secret project was -not- CoH2. They had plans for it, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't in development. I think it was TonyV that mentioned something about CoH2 taking place on the west coast.

Perhaps we're both reading the post differently?  I read it as topic a and topic b from the twitch stream, not CoH2 actually being the secret project, unless I'm reading you wrong (text sucks sometimes).

[downix]

The developers have constantly said, before and after the announcement, that the super secret project was -not- CoH2. They had plans for it, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't in development. I think it was TonyV that mentioned something about CoH2 taking place on the west coast.

There was work on CoH2 done, it was on the west coast, even some concept art was shown. But that's about it that we know of.

[Opilion]

NC Soft isn't going to throw money into a title just to have it sit there.  It costs money to license a title and renew it, and it was renewed -recently-.  If they don't have plans for it you really think they'd pit money into it??

It appears to have cost them $150 to file the extension (barring any attorney fees). 

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn85004613&docId=ESU20121120153857

Not exactly a bank-breaker. 

[Jadenator]

There was work on CoH2 done, it was on the west coast, even some concept art was shown. But that's about it that we know of.

When was this???

It appears to have cost them $150 to file the extension (barring any attorney fees). 

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn85004613&docId=ESU20121120153857

Not exactly a bank-breaker. 

even if it's not a bank breaker, it's still stupid to just hold onto a title for so long just to have it.  And given as downix just made mention of conecpt art and work was done, the license renewal clearly isn't for nothing.

Also looking at the link you provided:
ONGOING EFFORT   product or service research or development
Which means they are currently researching the development of the game or actually developing it.  It's clearly not a product yet since it's not out for sale.

Anyways Sept 5 video didn't make mention of it.  it's nearing 2 AM for me, I'm continuing video watching later today (or tomorrow depending on where you are)

[Victoria Victrix]

Companies routinely take out license extensions for products they have no intention EVER of producing, just to prevent a rival from getting the license and making it.  It happens all the time.  I am sure you will find that Coca Cola has licenses on every possible permutation of the "Coke" label for that very purpose.  They would camp on the license for the same reason that they would vault CoH and never let go of it.  While the license renewal states they are doing research on CoH2, all that "research" has to legally amount to is "we're thinking about it."  No one ever comes to check if you are actually doing anything.

By the same token, having the license for CoH2 as well as the CoH property makes the CoH property a little more valuable if they intend to sell as a package deal.  that $115 renewal could be worth tens of thousands of dollars in a deal.

The work done on CoH2 and the concept art, done on the West Coast, was done three years ago by Paragon Studios.  The project was canceled by NCSoft.  I saw it there on my visit.  Shortly after my visit, NCSoft canceled all work on CoH2.  Paragon then began work on the two "secret projects" which had no relationship to CoH2.  One was going to be a pen and paper game.  The other was going to be a computer game, and that is all that I know about them.

It seems to me that this entire thread is based on colliding assumptions and misapprehensions, like a big game of "Telephone."

[Septipheran]

If they made a COH 2 without Paragon it's just a body stealer wearing our world's skin. Nothing more. A wizzend grind hell husk really.

I don't really get this attitude myself. I wasn't even around in the 'old days' of COH, but wasn't the Dev team after Cryptic sold off COH an almost complete overhaul with a couple of exceptions? If you stuck around after that point I think it would make sense that you'd play a sequel with a different dev team.

[Perfidus]

I'd be open to a new dev team, but only if they were built in Paragon's image and held their values.

[Perfidus]

Basically what I'm saying is that I'm as loyal to my team as I am my game. I would expect any new team to carry those Paragon Studios values. I don't trust a new, unknown team to make a successor to this game. I would at least hope that Matt and Melissa could head up such a new team, and build it in their image. (Posi ans War Witch, for the one or two people who don't know their real names.)

[srmalloy]

Actually no, not everything I said is wrong.  As I stated in my first post, Zwil had mentioned CoH2 was going to be done and that Paragon was not working on it.  I will have to dig through the coffee talks to find out which one he said it in but I sat in and watched it live when he said it.  Also the fact NC Soft owns the license and made a fourth request for extension on Nov 18 and it was granted on Nov 26, and I posted the link to the license info, also shows I was not wrong there either.  They clearly have plans for CoH2, it's a matter of if and when.

If... and when... and how utterly stupid[/i] they are if they think they're going to get a viable playerbase after poisoning the well.

[Illusionss]

I don't believe they have a CoX2 in the works, because if they did they would have made the announcement before the closure of CoX Primal Earth [my metaphor], to soften the rage longtime players were bound to feel. It would still have been bad to close this version of CoX, but the thought of a new version to come would have completely changed the mood of the closure.

They will poison this well because they think they are over and done with it. The problem is, poison can spread around underground via ground-water, and then its an OHS**T! moment. I think they're just now realizing that they poisoned not only CoX, but every title they are involved with - as well as damaging trust for all MMO players, everywhere.

GOOD JOB GUYS!

[RandomUnicorn]

I don't really get this attitude myself. I wasn't even around in the 'old days' of COH, but wasn't the Dev team after Cryptic sold off COH an almost complete overhaul with a couple of exceptions? If you stuck around after that point I think it would make sense that you'd play a sequel with a different dev team.

Not according to Paragon Wiki where it says "most of those developers for the game left Cryptic and moved over to the new studio" [Paragon Studio]

http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Paragon_Studios


I have seen many business's change hands and the old customers slowly vanish because the new owners don't understands them. The business may attract new customers and succeed, but often it fails.

Keep in mind a new team will not know the old players. They will not have spent time playing with them in the old game, meeting them at events and reading their forum posts. This can lead to many pitfalls and problems such as...

A new team will not know the history of the game. "Go Hunt, Kill Skulls", "Winter Lord Baby" & "Sister Flame" will be meaningless phrases to them. Memes, shared history, and in jokes can build a community, and keep it together.

A new team is likely to put things into the game that will alienate and anger many old players.
"Lets have missions and badges and loot in PvP zones so PvEers will go there."
"We don't need very many costumes to start all we need are a lot of sexy, revealing costumes for girls and give the men kick ass macho stuff and we can charge for any new costumes after that."

There are hundreds if not thousands more pitfalls an old team would nimbly avoid that a new team will likely fall into and wind up angering the original player base. That is why if CoH2 is ever made, Not that I think NC Soft will do so,  that without a core group of the original Devs it is likely to be unappealing to the original players.