File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau

[Speedforce]

If you really want to upset NCSoft's Korean management then go to:

http://www.bbb.org/central-texas/business-reviews/computer-software-publishers-and-developers/ncsoft-corporation-in-austin-tx-58760

And file a complaint for their terrible service and attitude during this whole mess.

Rip the company's "A+" rating down to a solid "F" and then make as much noise about the massive downgrade as possible on every media site imaginable. If any members here are fluent in Korean then make sure to cross post the information on Korean sites as well.

Massive loss of "Face" is a serious matter to members of Korean society, especially to the people at the higher levels of corporate leadership and forcing the company into having a black eye over this debacle is one way to actually get their attention. The more embarrassing their handling of this matter is made the more likely that they are to actually come forward and offer some form consideration or compromise in an attempt at reparations for their actions.

[Jetfire99]

A interesting idea I'd like to hear in from some higher level people who are deeper involved to weigh in on it. This may be a post Dec 1st thing however.

[dwturducken]

Some discussion here and here, as well as here. From the standards presented by the BBB, I do not have a case, but YMMV.

[Jordan_Lee]

I'd be happy to do this but I don't know that we have a legitimate complaint against them. They stopped providing their product, maybe it was well-liked but they decided it wasn't worth it anymore.

I don't know, if someone can draft up a nice complaint that we can copy and paste from so we can all send in it's worth a try.

[The Fifth Horseman]

The volume of complaints in proportion to the businesses' size also affects their ranking, mind you.

[chasearcanum]

A complaint is only the first step at impacting a rating.  It isn't just a "number of complaints" issue- its a "number of unresolved complaints... and resolution is in the judgement of the BBB, not the consumer.

If you say "they're shutting down the game that I invested money in." NCSoft would reply that 1) they cover the potential of loss of access to the product in the NDA 2) they let the game continue for free 3 months after accepting any money 3) many players "churn" out in 3 months, and many non-mmo games have less playability than 3 months, so that's time-a-plenty to give people to get their money's worth.  The BBB takes NCSoft's response as a credible effort to remedy said complaint and don't count it against their rating.

Also,  they actively look for group efforts to discredit companies.

There are organizations that will spew fake glowing product reviews for your product- or crappy ones for your competitors- all for a few bucks.  There's big money in it.  BBB ratings are nothing different, so they tend to look for evidence of an organized effort and consider them all questionable.  The fact that this thread is public and accessible by anyone tends to work against it (much like the "#MMOKiller" wiki edit referenced our site as "attempting to disparage NCSoft").  Thus, it damages our image more than theirs.

Be careful what you do.  If you believe you have a legitimate wrong that has the possibility of being remedied with the involvement of the BBB, by all means, use it... but if you're doing it to lash out against NCSoft, you may do more to harm others that may have legitimate complaints by causing them all to be "painted with the same brush"

[JRVthatsME]

Regarding what to complain about, there is the claim that they exhausted all efforts to continue the game including trying to sell it, when apparently Disney and two other groups had made offers to buy City of Heroes and were just ignored. So that would be a lie to their customers. There is also the statement that they were shutting down City of Heroes because of a "Realignment of company focus" which basically translates to "we dont give a toss about this game anymore so we're getting rid of it" and then in october they claimed that they had actually tried everything to keep the game going and failed. There is definately a lie in that. As for customer service there is the fact that NcSoft blatently refuses to answer any questions or provide any evidence relating to anything they have said about the shutting down of City of Heroes, which is plenty valid a reason for a customer complaint.

[chasearcanum]

Playing Devil's Advocate:

Regarding what to complain about, there is the claim that they exhausted all efforts to continue the game including trying to sell it, when apparently Disney and two other groups had made offers to buy City of Heroes and were just ignored.  So that would be a lie to their customers.

We have no public statement that these offers were made, nor would they be required to provide any reason why they didn't consider these credible enough to pursue.  They decided that the offers provided were not viable pursuits, so their statement stands valid.  That's not a lie.  At best, that's a so-broad-and-ambiguous-as-to-be-impossible-to-prove-true-or-false statement. 

Unfortunately, since they're not obligated to provide ANY statement, let alone a precise one, it gets us nowhere.

There is also the statement that they were shutting down City of Heroes because of a "Realignment of company focus" which basically translates to "we dont give a toss about this game anymore so we're getting rid of it" and then in october they claimed that they had actually tried everything to keep the game going and failed. There is definately a lie in that.

I can't see that as a lie.  They're saying 'this product/service isn't in our interest anymore, so we decided to close it.'  That's rather accurate and abrupt and 100% within their right as a business.  As a business, they're under no obligation to explain that decision to consumers or find a good home for said product.  Its their product.  As long as they give reasonable accommodation to their customers to make a transition, they're doing all that's required of them.

They are under no obligation to seek any resolution beyond that.  it would behoove them from a community-standpoint to do so, but not by any "business ethics" standpoint.  They refunded money and gave sufficient "free" service to reasonably accommodate people that made recent purchases.  The why's and wherefore's were never part of the deal.

As for customer service there is the fact that NcSoft blatently refuses to answer any questions or provide any evidence relating to anything they have said about the shutting down of City of Heroes, which is plenty valid a reason for a customer complaint.

As much as I want to agree, I cannot.  NCSoft has NO OBLOGATION to provide any such information, no matter how much we want an answer.  NCSoft has an obligation to provide the service that they agreed to provide to us, nothing more.  Explanations or evidence on the why's or how's are business processes whose disclosures have never been part of such service. 

Yes, it means customers are unhappy.   Customer Service complaints, from the BBB's (and legal) perspective, isn't about making the customer happy.  It's about making sure that the business provided what it was obligated to provide. 

This kind of complaint is precisely the kind of complaint that would NOT be given much credibility

[chasearcanum]

I realized my last post may sound harsh, so for some better examples:

A "credible, actionable complaint"

I went to Grocery Store X that advertised soda for $1 per 2 litre.  I bought 10 of them and was charged $1.50 each.  I asked, and they said that the discount was for "member card users only" but the ad made no reference to that.

It is measurable, it is provable (here's a copy of the ad, here's the copy of the receipt), it is a clear business obligation and it has an actionable recourse (in this case, the BBB got the store to not just refund the difference, but also a $20 gift card for the inconvenience. )

The complaint was then considered resolved. 

[P51mus]

I have 0 respect for the BBB ever since I noticed they gave Riot Games an F rating.  Probably all the complaints are from people who got banned for bad behavior.

They've also given Valve an F. These are two gaming companies with great reputations.

Not to mention, apparently they'll give high ratings to anyone who will pay them.

[JaguarX]

I have 0 respect for the BBB ever since I noticed they gave Riot Games an F rating.  Probably all the complaints are from people who got banned for bad behavior.

They've also given Valve an F. These are two gaming companies with great reputations.

Not to mention, apparently they'll give high ratings to anyone who will pay them.

Yeah Im not too keen on BBB. Sounds good in theory but even a company with over 7235 complaints in the last 3 years compared to NCSoft's measly 179 over the last 3 years , and stil havea B rating, then on the other side as mentioned you have companies with good word on the street reputation, with low ratings.

Yeah those complaints may have came from banned people and others of the disgruntled sort for Valve and Riot Game but then (a little bit of devil's advocate here) if we file negative complaints now for ncsoft isnt we basically in that same category?

Another side of it is that the rating doesnt seem to be how many complaints they have but the response to those complaint as judged by the BBB.
Valve looks like out of it's 534 complaints in last three years, 34 went unanswered and 54 unresolved compared to NCSoft with 1 unresolved.

Seems while NCSoft is not too good with communication directly to the player base, they are good at answering where those ratings matter to them.

I tell you, while NCSoft might be a little off, they are not stupid. If we are trying to catch them where they have to basically face their image over this decision, we have to catch them in some way where they have no choice but to face it and cant just tidy it up (maybe with a little cash on top) to these guys that many people take as concrete evidence to be the best raters out there while BBB is one of the most notorious pro buisness image keepers out there. I might be jumping the gun here again but I havent personally come across many large corporations, some that I know do not have good reviews elsewhere, that have ratings below a B.

I think the media is our best bet as long as we keep at it. Then because media loves action, and most people believe that corporations are shady by nature, and then ncsoft have to respond and people cannot be paid off as easily as BBB.


But that is just my view on it and it might be a bit crazy as I havent had my Rockstar yet.

[Keyne]

Riot and Valve are infamous for not playing by rules set by others, and would probably laugh off "pay for our better opinion" schemes, so I could definitely see those two excellent companies being graded like that.

"We have to BUY an A Ranking? Pfffthaha..."

[The Fifth Horseman]

Well, I'm hearing that there are issues with Paragon Market purchases not working as they should on Live. Points are deducted, but the item (or unlock, such as invention licenses) is never received.
That does seem like a basis for a legitimate customer complaint.

[JaguarX]

Well, I'm hearing that there are issues with Paragon Market purchases not working as they should on Live. Points are deducted, but the item (or unlock, such as invention licenses) is never received.
That does seem like a basis for a legitimate customer complaint.

Yeah.

[The Fifth Horseman]

So get on with filing those complaints. NCsoft is unlikely to have time to resolve them in any fashion before the time is up - if we're lucky, that will go permamently on their record. 

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Where in the past the BBB has proven that those can be wiped clean by paying money.

Emphasis mine.

If their stock prices are anything to go by, they're not going to have money for very much longer.  I see no reason not to force them to spend a little more to clean up their PR image, if I can do so both legally and honestly.

If you got a complaint with NCsoft that's pretty solid, you may as well file it with the BBB.  Even if they are corrupt enough to wipe the slate for money and give preferential ratings to paid members, that's more money that NCsoft has to spend - why not make 'em spend it?

[The Fifth Horseman]

Still gives them another angle to worry about, which is all the point.

[chasearcanum]

Considering that they have a boat load of cash in reserves, I think the $425 will not be that hard to find.

And the share price has no effect on their cash reserves either. Share prices influence their Market Captilization (Think of it like Apple... they are a $500billion+ company, yet they only have around $100billion in actual cash... the $500billion valuation is based *entirely* off their share price).

Correct, to a degree. 

The Market Captilization is based on what share value, which is based on what people believe the business to be worth.  That belief is based on a few things- including their assets on hand (their cash on hand, their IP, their hardware, etc), liabilities against the company, and the believe in future performance.  What's interesting is when a company with a large amount of assets has a decline in Market Valuation to the point that they're not valued at much more than their total assets.  That indicates a company that the market sees as having little value coming from future earnings.  All its seen as good for is essentially good for is "selling off the parts"

So, in that sense, knowing NCSoft's cash on hand and asset valuation would be an interesting way to meter how the stockholders see their earnings potential.  Do you happen to know where you saw that info?  I'm curious now.

[chasearcanum]

Just realized that the last post was a bit off topic, forgive me.

If you believe you have a legitimate and tangible grief that the BBB could assist you with, by all means write to them. 

If your goal is to somehow tarnish NCSoft's image by treating the BBB as a reputation service you can manipulate... I wouldn't bother.  That's not what they exist for, and it'll likely do more to harm your credibility should you ever have a future legitimate complaint than it will harm NCSoft.