Author Topic: The Bard is Back!  (Read 47861 times)

johnrobey

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2012, 12:47:27 PM »
As I understand it, if I do, it's that various contracts (which? whose? I dont know) expire on 11/30/12 or 12/1/12 when City of Heroes is officially closed by NCSoft and it's the expiration/conclusion of these contracts that will then free NCSoft to make deals in a manner more to the liking of the customer base.  Whether this is true, I can't say but I believe that is Fansy's claim--which at the moment is supported only by Fansy's claim to anonymous but legit sources.

I hope it's true.  I've reviewed all of Fansy's Official CoH forum posts that I could find, and think Fansy is on the level and NOT perpetrating a hoax.  That doesn't mean Fansy is right or even if right that things will play out as we hope; however, Fansy is telling us rather directly despite the flowery bard-speech that our efforts ARE making a difference, and that I infer (i hope correctly) that some people inside NCSoft (likely a minority position) take our view: that NCSoft is throwing away revenues (us/customers) and profit (sale of the IP) under the current course of action.  For all I know some NCSoft employees may feel a loyalty towards us and City of Heroes (I assume their mission and vision statements are part of NCSoft corporate culture and not merely pretty words meaning nothing.)  Why NCSoft closed Tabula Rasa and kept the IP and the IP of other MMO's it's closed rather than selling them, I don't know.  As a relative newcomer, most of what I think I know about this has come from reading the forums (Titan and official CoH).

Whether NCSoft misjudged as badly as Coca-Cola did when discontinuing old "Classic" Coke in favor of New Coke/Coke II in 1985 has yet to be seen:  http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/heritage/cokelore_newcoke.html or if you prefer the wikipedia version:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke  Note:  I posted about this on the official forums where it was noted by another that CoH to NCSoft is more analagous to Surge (another soda pop made by Coca-Cola) which was also discontinued and fans of Surge failed to get Coca-Cola to bring back Surge, whereas the company's reaction to the customer response to New Coke was to bring back Coke Classic in a hurry.   If Fansy is right, we need to increase the volume, or rather make certain we're getting our message out in the right way to the right people.
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Mister Bison

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2012, 12:52:37 PM »
What I'm suggesting caution about, is not Fansy himself, it is his source that can be hoaxing him, and in turn, us all. If it's an employee of NCSoft, and NCSoft tries to minimise our noise, it could be a course of action. All in all we don't have anything to loose in keeping up the volume, until this turns out to be true or false. To maximise our chances.
Yeeessss....

Fansy

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2012, 01:14:26 PM »
Hail!

I wish to clarify on voice and note that this may be the most elaborate cloak and veil if one were to sneak a NCsoft Korean email suffix and return it to me with words of their own account to what in my eyes is possible. Direct, sharpened were their words and left poor Fansy quite the task of dancing through pointy mesh but it wasn't in vain for all was sang to the Titan Network and Official Forums again.

I cannot say myself that it is one hundred percent for the word of a supporter no matter how broad must be narrowed when seeing its location and from whence it came. It's true that the source is viably credible of its origin BUT does that mean the message given is one to be hopeful for? Hence for ifs, possibles, and could. I never say Will, Shall, Is in works for that would be beyond my sight, I can just set to your eyes what my eyes have read and through this message I also began to dread that everyone's tongue and fingers will silence. Do not, Good Sir and Miss, stop your advance for it is indeed making an impact. The magazine source made that very clear for there are sources inside and out of NCsoft who are answering, vaguely, to some article writers who have submitted questions but yield too little to write a response of and instead have a morsel, belay that, a crumb to update an article with. However, it IS small that makes the difference for where there was complete silence there is now a trickling of information. How soon before our supporter is found and baited? None the wiser. Let us hope that those in the know will answer to emails sent and not just by myself for we have had quite the many current and in light celebrities take to their keyboard swords and jabbed into the darkness. In replies short of breath one must do what they can to spread the message in a way that does not harm the source who may be just the only one willing to risk.

And that is that. See between the lines, hear what you wish, know what you must, but never lay still and keep to your word. Keep on fighting my friends, for you are Good Team Heroes and this is just what you do!

Sand Giants!
Fansy the Famous Bard

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2012, 01:41:26 PM »
Do you happen to have any advice as who/where to mail, good Bard?
The CoH related email Tony posted?

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2012, 01:42:08 PM »
Hear Hear !

Knowing is better than ignoring. We'll try not to hit any supporter we have in NCSoft, I just wanted to give other bells sounds so that everybody can see the whole possible artists at work. But the kind you brought was all too needed Fansy, and you have the courage to stand against my warnings and for that you earn your troubadour place. Just as we need people who see good everywhere, evil can be anywhere. And any hope you bring should be fuel for us rather than our rest. Every post of the ship must be manned and active, even if the vigil reports land in sight.

Indeed as you say, keep it up, we are winning, but we haven't won yet.
Yeeessss....

johnrobey

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2012, 01:52:48 PM »
Hail!

I wish to clarify on voice and note that this may be the most elaborate cloak and veil if one were to sneak a NCsoft Korean email suffix and return it to me with words of their own account to what in my eyes is possible. Direct, sharpened were their words and left poor Fansy quite the task of dancing through pointy mesh but it wasn't in vain for all was sang to the Titan Network and Official Forums again.

I cannot say myself that it is one hundred percent for the word of a supporter no matter how broad must be narrowed when seeing its location and from whence it came. It's true that the source is viably credible of its origin BUT does that mean the message given is one to be hopeful for? Hence for ifs, possibles, and could. I never say Will, Shall, Is in works for that would be beyond my sight, I can just set to your eyes what my eyes have read and through this message I also began to dread that everyone's tongue and fingers will silence. Do not, Good Sir and Miss, stop your advance for it is indeed making an impact. The magazine source made that very clear for there are sources inside and out of NCsoft who are answering, vaguely, to some article writers who have submitted questions but yield too little to write a response of and instead have a morsel, belay that, a crumb to update an article with. However, it IS small that makes the difference for where there was complete silence there is now a trickling of information. How soon before our supporter is found and baited? None the wiser. Let us hope that those in the know will answer to emails sent and not just by myself for we have had quite the many current and in light celebrities take to their keyboard swords and jabbed into the darkness. In replies short of breath one must do what they can to spread the message in a way that does not harm the source who may be just the only one willing to risk.

And that is that. See between the lines, hear what you wish, know what you must, but never lay still and keep to your word. Keep on fighting my friends, for you are Good Team Heroes and this is just what you do!

Sand Giants!
Fansy the Famous Bard

Thank you, Fansy, for clarifying.  I for one do NOT want to put your source at risk.  He or she already took a risk communicating what they did which you've relayed to us.  I thought your words were clear: keep writing EVERYONE at NCSoft, especially NCSoft Headquarters.   Myself, I want a more specific game plan than that.  We've already written, we've sent capes and masks.  Maybe we need to do more of the same, or perhaps we need to refine our approach(es).   But perhaps you, dear Fansy, could communicate privately with TonyV, Victoria Victrix or whomever else can be trusted with confidential information so we can refine our efforts to best effect.
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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2012, 02:38:01 PM »
It's always nice to think that CoH can be saved somehow even if it's just a pipe dream.  But as I've not seen a single red-name on the official boards mention this,  it is nothing more than a rumor and I will wait for some official word before believing it.  Better to be safe than sorry, especially since all other similar rumors (SOE is buying CoH....the super-secret project lives on and is releasing in July 2013....Trion Worlds offered 80 million for CoH and was turned down....) have turned out to be false.

Dreaming is fun, but people don't need to have their hopes raised falsely any more times than has already been done.

Ironwolf

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2012, 02:48:33 PM »
Red names will not be commenting on it.

The game as being run by NCSoft will cease at 11:59:59 November 30th.

However what Fansy is pointing out is a credible source has explained that some issues with contracts were voided by the actual CLOSING of the game. A transfer as Cryptic did with NCSoft would extend the effects of the contracts.

Closing the game and taking it offline voids those. Hope is never false, I would say instead despair is the false prophet and if you become a slave to "What IF" you are under the whip of a harsh master. In his book Waylander, the late David Gemmel pointed out that you can live your life locked into never supporting or helping anyone. You can never truly live while you ponder the many WHAT IFS.

Instead as the bible notes (well read pagan here) "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

So you can be the person who looks back fondly at what could have been or you can be the person who looks ahead at WHAT MIGHT BE!


Surelle

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2012, 03:39:43 PM »
However what Fansy is pointing out is a credible source has explained ....

Um, where is this "credible source?"  Where is the link?  Where is the official anything?  ;)

Well, at least this one isn't naming names, so that people from past false rumors like John Smedley have to actually stop what they're doing running their own companies like SOE and twitter about said rumor being false, lol....

We'll see.  But I don't see anything "credible" whatsoever so far.    Just maybe...."gullible."

Colette

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2012, 03:50:33 PM »
"Do not, Good Sir and Miss, stop your advance for it is indeed making an impact. ...never lay still and keep to your word."

In sum, keep doing what we're doing: calling NCSoft on their deceit, pandering, and contempt for their customers while praising CoH and bewailing its fate. The just merits of our grievance is noted inside the walls of NCSoft, by their stockholders and by the greater gaming industry. Got it.

Also, "cancelling" the game voids certain entangling contracts and makes CoH more viable as a purchased property to some other developer, one more familiar with our market and more qualified to continue development, or even - dare we dream? - to continue work on CoH 2. Thank you for the ray of hope.

Turjan

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2012, 04:26:50 PM »
Curiouser and curiouser, the rabbit hole deepens!

The Famous Bard has given us a most intriguing snippet here, one that fills some infuriating gaps...yet it also creates new gaps of its own.

Legal issues and ties binding to the CoH IP would indeed explain official corporate silence, but as NCsoft's record with communication is chequered at best, such silence itself should not be taken as a sign of goodwill, ill will, or indeed any other flavour of will, it simply...is.

As always, I'm driven to regard the timing of CoH's closure as the key to this riddle. Vis a vis the game's financial history, there was no more reason to close CoH a year ago, or 2 years ago, than there was on August 31st. So it's logical to look instead for any change at NCsoft which might explain a desire to change the administration of CoH.

And change aplenty there's been this year, in the shape of NCsoft CEO Kim selling 2/3 of his personal stock at below market price to biggest rival Nexon. Somewhere in that shift of power is the "realignment of focus" we seek.

So, logic time -

1. Why not simply transfer CoH to Nexon to run without closing it?
Well, if there's a legal ball and chain attached to CoH, then transferring lock, stock and barrel might be an utter legal minefield. Closing the game would likely break legal bonds, making a transfer easier.

2. Okay, so what's with that $8 million price tag for the IP?
If NCsoft wanted Nexon to have the IP, it would be logical to overprice it to chase buyers away. The beauty of this is for them is that for all we know, the transfer of the IP for $8 million might already have been part of the share deal between Kim and Nexon. He did sell his shares at below market value after all...perhaps the IP sale was part of it, but would only be officially confirmed later when no-one but Nexon wanted to stump up the $8 million asking price.
But this brings us to the next point -

3. Would Nexon even want the IP at all?
Ah, now here's the new gap in the puzzle. Keeping CoH running would probably have meant Nexon would ultimately end up running it, because from what I can tell, NCsoft seems to favour retreating to within Korean borders, while Nexon is blustering about building its profile in the US. With the two in partnership, the conclusion there is obvious. But what if Nexon didn't want to run it? What if, in fact, part of the deal between Nexon and NCsoft IS the closure of CoH because Nexon didn't want to be dumped with legal hassles, and perhaps also isn't even interested in developing a new, legally unbound version of CoH2 that would take several years to see the light of day anyway?

Nexon after all prefer to market games developed by others - and in this case, of the two companies, NCsoft is the developer with the proven track record. It's possible that Nexon could buy the IP from NCsoft and then effectively give it back by allowing NCsoft to develop a CoH2...but given that GW2 likely benefitted from keeping GW ticking over, the logic there would surely have been to keep CoH ticking over too - unless these mysterious 'legal ties' meant closing CoH and making CoH2 years later was easier than keeping old CoH ticking over...which would seem rather bizarre.

So if Nexon didn't want to run CoH, and NCsoft don't want to use the IP (remember this quote from Lincoln Davies, NCsoft West director of corporate communications : "The continued support of the franchise no longer fits with our long-term goals for the company." ) then the IP would indeed be up for grabs come December 1st.


Now all we're left with in that scenario is the logic behind that puzzling $8 million price tag on the IP. With nothing to lose from delaying the sale of the IP til closure was certain anyway, perhaps this might be simply to make sure any legal issues die with the game's closure, ensuring no trailing legal stingers could come back to haunt NCsoft later.

*sigh*

The waters are still muddy though. I guess we just have to wait and see if they settle a bit come Dec 1st and we might finally be able to see something clear in there :-\

Lily Barclay

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2012, 04:45:02 PM »
I can't help but think that this is just another ploy by NCSoft to get us to quiet down and stop trashing them. "The game HAS to close so that we can sell it. Just quiet down and let us close it."  I think it's a good possibility Fansy is being played. The PR nightmare has finally gotten bad enough that they have to be smart about it. Pick someone the community trusts, but isn't directly involved enough in the efforts to really be in the know, and lie to them. Maybe I'm just cynical, but it sounds like something they or their PR firm would do. Sounds like they are trying to make US blink. They want us to question our NCSoft hate and portray themselves as the little guy with the big bad over their shoulders making them shut down the game. They want some people to support the closure, since supposedly that's the only way they can sell the IP. It just sounds to me they are trying to split our focus and make us reconsider things long enough to minimize the damage we are doing and get the game shut down. Hopefully we'll be quiet after, because if it is closed, they're trying to sell it right? They are hoping we will leave then alone and wait until we figure out they aren't selling anything, and by then it will be too late. I'm a cynic.

I do think however, this means that we are making enough noise that they recognize we are damaging them and have ceased to treat us like spoiled children, and are treating us like opponents. Unfortunately they seem to still think we are pretty foolish.

Empyrean

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2012, 05:32:41 PM »
We will never know till all is said and done.  But even the possibility that the game could be re-opened later, or (and possibly even more exciting) the possibility that the "next generation" of superhero MMORPG's could be based on City of Heroes IP is, well, just thrilling.  Here's hoping.

Regardless, whether this is true or not doesn't change our day-to-day mission and activities.  Keep on keeping on.

Proud of this community.  This game really has attracted awesome people and brought out the best in them.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 06:20:01 PM by Empyrean »

emu265

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2012, 05:45:44 PM »
We will never know till all is said and done.  But even the possibility that the game could be re-opened later, or (and possibly even more exciting) the possibility that the "next generation" of superhero MMORPG's could be based on City of Heroes IP is, well, just thrilling.  Here's hoping.

Regardless, whether this is true or not doesn't change our day-to-day mission and activities.  Keep on keeping on.

Proud of this community.  This game really has attracted awesome people and brought out the best in them.
Couldn't have said it better.  Don't lose hope, don't give up.

Battle Ant

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2012, 05:48:31 PM »
I can't help but think that this is just another ploy by NCSoft to get us to quiet down and stop trashing them. "The game HAS to close so that we can sell it. Just quiet down and let us close it."  I think it's a good possibility Fansy is being played. The PR nightmare has finally gotten bad enough that they have to be smart about it. Pick someone the community trusts, but isn't directly involved enough in the efforts to really be in the know, and lie to them. Maybe I'm just cynical, but it sounds like something they or their PR firm would do. Sounds like they are trying to make US blink. They want us to question our NCSoft hate and portray themselves as the little guy with the big bad over their shoulders making them shut down the game. They want some people to support the closure, since supposedly that's the only way they can sell the IP. It just sounds to me they are trying to split our focus and make us reconsider things long enough to minimize the damage we are doing and get the game shut down. Hopefully we'll be quiet after, because if it is closed, they're trying to sell it right? They are hoping we will leave then alone and wait until we figure out they aren't selling anything, and by then it will be too late. I'm a cynic.

I do think however, this means that we are making enough noise that they recognize we are damaging them and have ceased to treat us like spoiled children, and are treating us like opponents. Unfortunately they seem to still think we are pretty foolish.

^this^

Until NCSoft actually confirms a sale, I would take all rumors such as this with a grain of salt.

Manga

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2012, 06:35:58 PM »
I would say that Fansy is almost certainly being played.  There is only one tiny possibility that he might not be, and it's something I have mentioned before: 

This might all be about NCSoft keeping ownership of player accounts. 

If they want to sell the game at all, they want to sell it without giving up player information - meaning all data and characters would be lost, and we'd all have to start over.  That's only slightly more palatable after CoH has been shut down and erased.  But it also means CoH will lose so many veteran players who don't want to start over and dedicate full time to the game again, it will never be profitable again.

But I still say even that possibility is extremely unlikely.  Most likely, NCSoft wants to keep the IP, because it increases the value of NCSoft if a buyout comes along.

Let me explain that bit a little more:  The goal of a LOT of game companies right now is not to provide games, or entertainment, or anything really.  Their goal is to develop at least one product that makes them valuable enough to get bought out, so the owner and/or CEO, and the board, can collect big fat bonuses when the company is liquidated for its assets. 

I believe NCSoft is one of those companies.  They are waiting for someone like Nexon to buy them out with a big fat cash deal to get ahold of their IP's, and liquidate the company, and fire everyone - and they believed a dead CoH increases those chances.  And then the Kim family retires as billionaires, and lives happily ever after.  That's most likely what this is about.

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2012, 07:01:22 PM »
[...] This might all be about NCSoft keeping ownership of player accounts.  [...]

You touched on a few things but yeah; there's just no way I see anyone touching the IP (the game really) without the player data that existed the day before the announcement. Not without spending more money on advertising than the game itself is even worth.

It would be ludicrous to think otherwise. The majority of long time veteran players  have spent YEARS of money and time, building up personal fortunes.. the game economy, unlocks, leveling, store purchases, /friends, and more.

To start all over again is laughable. Would they really expect anyone with more than a years worth of veteran commitment to the game to believe it could never happen again?

Then comes the legal murkiness of selling the game assets (account data) to another party, since that would require at the bare minimum giving the user's email addresses out. They could theoretically sanitize everything else and just have user accounts tied to an email address and HOPE that by the time the game were to be live again, that the majority of players who return looking to re-activate their accounts on the new system (of the new owner) didn't change or lose access to their email address.

There will probably be more than a few who do, and the only way to validate who accounts used to belong to would be with providing information like the address or something of the account, or certain information you could recall about things in the account.

Any new owner would have to set up a long-term account retrieval/validation process for former players to arbitrate ownership.

With all of the development team scattered, it becomes increasingly unlikely CoH would ever return to its former glory ever again. Anyone seriously considering a bid for CoH would be thinking about all of this. Otherwise if it ever came back, it would be the ghost town it likely is now for the foreseeable future. You cant fund new content without the size of the player base we had before and expect the game to jump start itself back to life.

Returning the game with account data intact as part of the deal would at least give the game a fighting chance.

Ammon

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2012, 07:15:04 PM »
I believe NCSoft is one of those companies.  They are waiting for someone like Nexon to buy them out with a big fat cash deal to get ahold of their IP's, and liquidate the company, and fire everyone - and they believed a dead CoH increases those chances.  And then the Kim family retires as billionaires, and lives happily ever after.
I hate to argue with anyone's beliefs, but that particular belief falls lower in credibility than believing the world is flat, or believing that Santa and the Tooth Fairy have a secret deal to recycle gold teeth as jewellery.

The CEO of NCsoft sold less than 15% of his own personal shares in NCsoft (massively under-priced, we should note) to Nexon in June (just a few months ago) for just under $700 million ($688M).  The timing perplexed some, as did the pricing because this was 40 percent lower than the high mark for those shares.

Get it?  The CEO actually chose to turn down the opportunity to cash out for a billion dollars US, instead settling for just under 70% of a billion for just over half his shares.

http://nwww.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20120611001052

These are the two biggest gaming companies in Korea, and this partnership puts them well into the top 10 of gaming companies world wide.  Get that?  The merging of Nexon and NCsoft makes them able to sit at the same table as EA and the like.  It actually prevents a sale to anyone with less resources than, say, Sony worldwide.

Quinch

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2012, 07:32:42 PM »
To start all over again is laughable. Would they really expect anyone with more than a years worth of veteran commitment to the game to believe it could never happen again?

Personally, if it meant that CoH would keep going, or even if it would increase its chance of continuing, I'd delete each and every alt I've made over the past six years without batting an eyelash.

That said... NCsoft's credibility is shot to pieces already, so even if they did, somehow, miraculously decide to restart the game, I'd be... skeptical at best.

Manga

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Re: The Bard is Back!
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2012, 07:42:03 PM »
I hate to argue with anyone's beliefs, but that particular belief falls lower in credibility than believing the world is flat, or believing that Santa and the Tooth Fairy have a secret deal to recycle gold teeth as jewellery.

In that case I guess we're fortunate to have you to tell us all exactly why NCSoft is doing this and exactly what they're going to do next.  So tell us exactly what to do, because obviously we're all too stupid to figure it out until you speak.

When I first started posting here, this was a nice place.  You notice how now there are long periods of silence from me, and I haven't said much about what I've been up to?  It's because these forums have gradually become filled with a-holes who will tell me off, accuse me of stuff, and shoot me down every step of the way.  And I've been stupidly trying to defend myself!  What a waste of time that was.

If posting here is going to be a test of strength and to prove how tough I am and how much abuse I can take, then forget it, I have better and more fun things to do.  You win, you're stronger and tougher than I am, and I don't deserve to speak.  Instead I'll be quietly working over here on stuff none of you will know about.