Author Topic: NCsoft Earning report is out  (Read 6511 times)

Randomvector

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NCsoft Earning report is out
« on: November 07, 2012, 12:05:30 AM »
Having a look now.

you can get it at http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx if you want to take a look.

Hopefully someone with business knowledge can use it to shed light on things

Randomvector

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 12:09:11 AM »
looks like they are doing well <sigh> Was hoping they were not.

Randomvector

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 12:14:26 AM »
Thought, net income seems to be half of 2011. So, yay? <sigh> I don't know anything about how to read this.

Heroette

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 12:21:09 AM »
It looks like they did much better in the Q3 than in Q2.  I deal with Profit and Loss statements and it would take me a more than a quick glance to analyze it but yeah, they didn't do bad last quarter at all.  Their employment costs went down so that helped with the profit end.  In all honesty, the lost of City of Heroes is not going to impact them much at all financially.

V-Mink

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2012, 12:25:42 AM »
It looks like they did much better in the Q3 than in Q2.  I deal with Profit and Loss statements and it would take me a more than a quick glance to analyze it but yeah, they didn't do bad last quarter at all.  Their employment costs went down so that helped with the profit end.  In all honesty, the lost of City of Heroes is not going to impact them much at all financially.

Considering that CoH was making a profit but was not making a huge percent of NCsoft's income, this is not really unexpected.

This being said, something made their stock plummet.  Now it stands to see if the stockholders believe the quarterly report.

NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2012, 12:27:40 AM »
well if their q3 earnings reflect GW2 release plus the fact that they just layoff 80-100 employees thats easily $4.8+ mil a year (im assuming that everyone made at least $60k a year)

its the q4 earnings after we continue the PR war after the game actually shuts down and blade and soul flops

Randomvector

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2012, 12:40:51 AM »
well, their sales in Korea are down. Don't know what that means.

Hedgefund

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2012, 01:05:17 AM »

I just listened to the conf call (I listened to the Q2 call 3 months ago).  This one was definitely more bullish than the last one.  Sales were up, expenses were down so they have a right to be so bullish.  They expect Q4 to be even better.  Sorry schadenfreude lovers.

Paragon Studios and City of wasn't mentioned once.  No questions were asked by the investors, no mention by NCSoft.  Blade & Soul and GW2 took up a large part of the discussion.

On another note, I keep seeing mention that City of was profitable.  What proof of this has been uncovered?  I don't read many of the posts so I apologize if I missed this proven definitively.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2012, 01:17:09 AM »
'schadenfreude'

That describes half the motivation of all competitive business.

Turjan

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2012, 02:02:40 AM »
The look of that overall is pretty much exactly what I expected, with the majority of attention shifted to their new 'Shinies' of GW2 and B&S. Which, considering that they knew their Q3 figures would be pretty much on this curve, again makes one wonder what on earth they stood to gain from closing CoH rather than keeping it ticking over.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2012, 02:33:01 AM »
The look of that overall is pretty much exactly what I expected, with the majority of attention shifted to their new 'Shinies' of GW2 and B&S. Which, considering that they knew their Q3 figures would be pretty much on this curve, again makes one wonder what on earth they stood to gain from closing CoH rather than keeping it ticking over.

You would think that NC would want to show how much money they saved by getting rid of CoH, so they could say, "There, see? It was the right decision." That it apparently got no mention anywhere is even more fuel for conspiracy theories.

Turjan

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2012, 12:25:44 PM »
Have a look at the NC Interactive figures... went from a $7million loss for Q2 to just a $400K loss....
Mr.G, you yourself have stated that half that of Paragon Studios was working on non-CoH projects - and when you destroy an entire studio, you also destroy all expenses that studio incurred. A single figure for all says nothing about what part of NCI itself may have been in the black and what may have been in the red.

But that's by-the-by to an extent - my major concern is that prior to this release, the red figures for NCI were very little different from what they have been for many Qs now...so why the decision to close CoH NOW? There's nothing in the report that indicates a sudden need to change the running of NCI. Remember the closure came as a shock to everyone, players and devs alike.

And if NCsoft HQ knew profits were going to rise the moment B&S and GW2 hit the shelves, that means there's even less reason to close something they'd been happy to keep in an apparent red column for years.

That's what I mean by questioning what they stood to gain. Once again, the only logic comes from a notion of "quietly burying something old and small while there's a big clamour going on to cover it" (which they could've done during any previous game launch while CoH was running tbh, should they have needed to) or else some bizarre personal reason known only to TJKim himself. Personally, I'm more and more favouring the latter explanation.

Moonfyire101

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2012, 02:53:04 PM »
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 03:29:06 PM by Moonfyire101 »

Manga

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2012, 03:32:11 PM »

Don't be fooled by the report.  NCSoft will see a quick boost to profit because they just fired 80 of the most expensive employees it had at Paragon Studios, and stopped paying the bills for CoH.  That's the equivelent of not paying your morgage or car payment - suddenly you have a lot of extra money at the end of the month.

The effect on profit won't really appear until a year from the day Paragon Studios shut down.  Which is what NCSoft is countng on, that within the next year they will make up the loss in profit and then some via Blade & Soul.

Riff

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2012, 03:55:04 PM »
What we need to look for in that - and a better financial analyst than I might know where to look - is the costs of shutting down Paragon Studios.

Maybe what the Titan Network needs to do is to put a presentation together for the NCSoft shareholders and wider world detailing what is missing from these figures.

Terwyn

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2012, 04:51:10 PM »
Don't be fooled by the report.  NCSoft will see a quick boost to profit because they just fired 80 of the most expensive employees it had at Paragon Studios, and stopped paying the bills for CoH.  That's the equivelent of not paying your morgage or car payment - suddenly you have a lot of extra money at the end of the month.

The effect on profit won't really appear until a year from the day Paragon Studios shut down.  Which is what NCSoft is countng on, that within the next year they will make up the loss in profit and then some via Blade & Soul.

I believe they will find that they are wrong. ^_^
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Moonfyire101

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2012, 05:05:22 PM »
I believe they will find that they are wrong. ^_^

yes i agree and said something similar pointing out reasons ----^

Harermuir

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2012, 07:14:11 PM »
I think we have here the reason for the shutdown. Cutting the cost make for a better report this term, and that can be used to make the B&S and guildwar launches seems better. I think that maybe they want an as good as possible report next term, to claim a good rentability of the two games, and we can press that licensing/selling the ip (or the game) will be a good way to make some money.

Moonfyire101

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2012, 07:45:58 PM »
yeah maybe then selling will seem good...we can hope. They are going to have to show they are still making money some how and the new release money isn't gonna last for more than a couple quarters.

Technerdoc

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2012, 08:05:24 PM »
Quote
I think we have here the reason for the shutdown. Cutting the cost make for a better report this term, and that can be used to make the B&S and guildwar launches seems better. I think that maybe they want an as good as possible report next term, to claim a good rentability of the two games, and we can press that licensing/selling the ip (or the game) will be a good way to make some money.

...but this works only one time. They can't close an other City of Heroes for the next report and I don't see how they want to make the big deal. Guild Wars 2 players are happy that they can play this game for "free", so I don't see that this game makes the big money in the future. Then they have Linage, Aion and Wildstar isn't out so far (...and everyone must be a fool in playing this after all this mess, to bad for an good looking game so far).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 08:15:09 PM by Technerdoc »

Mister Bison

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2012, 08:54:56 PM »
Have seen the disclaimer on every quarterly report (makes 2 for me :P), but can we order a third-party audit for ourselves ? for how much ? I would like to see how long exactly their numbers hold up, and if we can get a real price tag on City of Heroes assets.
Yeeessss....

Guardia

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2012, 10:10:49 PM »
I would point out that even though Paragon was shut down, due to California laws the employees were still on the NCSoft payroll until the end of October.



-np

Turjan

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2012, 11:29:02 PM »
Arenanet throw a spanner in the works here though... Because for a whole year (2011) they registered *nothing* in loss/gain for any quarter, even though Guild Wars made roughly $7million throughout the year. For 2012, they made $13million ($12million in Q3), whilst they have so far registered a loss off just over $2million (essentially all in Q3).

I must concur, the ArenaNet line of zeroes also had me scratching my head. Obviously ArenaNet did indeed exist, so why the zero figures? If it means they're only measuring certain elements of performance and/or income-expenditure, then it makes a mockery of the entire report, rendering it all but useless when it comes to drawing any worthwhile conclusions from it.

Really in my opinion, and u can take it or leave it, they could have left CoH and it would still look like an increase. They could have laid off some of the non key employees and merged servers to save money and showed the same "progress". Looks like they did the shut down this quarter on purpose so it looks like CoH was the problem.

It would be difficult to make CoH appear to be the villain when they steadfastly avoid any direct mention of it anywhere in the report...yet another piece of illogical behaviour on their part. A franchise that had an active history of over 8 years and was apparently "like a family member of this company" and its passing isn't even mentioned. Not once.

From the paucity of actual solid information in that report - not to mention that bizarre total omission of the name City of Heroes in it anywhere - I'd guess they simply want CoH to go away into the past. And unless we kidnapped TJKim and strapped him to a chair in a basement under a bare 40watt lightbulb and asked him some questions directly, I don't think we're ever going to know the truth behind the closure decision.

All the material I've researched and read since the end of August suggests to me that keeping CoH ticking over would've made far more sense than closing it. It would've benefitted both NCsoft and Nexon, and also the tens of thousands of loyal paying customers. So therefore my bottom line of thinking now is that the reason for the closure is quite simply not one that was based on 'sense'.

Ichaerus

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2012, 11:36:15 PM »
I must concur, the ArenaNet line of zeroes also had me scratching my head. Obviously ArenaNet did indeed exist, so why the zero figures? If it means they're only measuring certain elements of performance and/or income-expenditure, then it makes a mockery of the entire report, rendering it all but useless when it comes to drawing any worthwhile conclusions from it.

It would be difficult to make CoH appear to be the villain when they steadfastly avoid any direct mention of it anywhere in the report...yet another piece of illogical behaviour on their part. A franchise that had an active history of over 8 years and was apparently "like a family member of this company" and its passing isn't even mentioned. Not once.

From the paucity of actual solid information in that report - not to mention that bizarre total omission of the name City of Heroes in it anywhere - I'd guess they simply want CoH to go away into the past.

That's because NCSoft is treating CoH/Paragon Studios like that family member that you're not supposed to talk about at family reunions...The "black sheep of the family," so to speak, or the adopted kid, or of the status of Jon Snow in Game of Thrones.  The illegitimate seed.

Kheprera

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2012, 01:14:26 AM »
The fourth quarter report is what should really tell where the numbers are.  Third quarter ended at the end of September, so this report will not reflect the personnel loss of Paragon Studios or the cost savings of rental space of the offices.


Moonfyire101

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 04:07:12 AM »


From the paucity of actual solid information in that report - not to mention that bizarre total omission of the name City of Heroes in it anywhere - I'd guess they simply want CoH to go away into the past.

they left out guild wars 1 also, because it did worse than CoH.

downix

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2012, 04:43:43 AM »
For the claims that they are changing focus to the asian market, their sales in these markets is down, rather dramatically.

It looks as though they lost almost $3 million in value from the CoH shutdown. Although they did claim it as a loss, enabling them to offset the added revenue from GW2. It's a shell game, which if they cannot get GW2 and B&S's sales numbers up, they're toast next Q.

cforciea

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2012, 10:49:44 PM »
People here keep talking about a short term money boost that could some how be derived from closing a profitable studio, but that doesn't make any sense. If I have a studio bringing in $800,000 a month and spending $700,000 a month, the most you could ever do by immediately killing all funding would be to save $700,000 right this second at the cost of $800,000 a month minus one day from now. Not only that, but billing cycles were by no means synced, so that first $800,000 opportunity costs starts actually being damaging at a rate of about $27,000 a day starting tomorrow. Couple that with the fact that outgoing costs don't actually go to zero, and could reasonably have even spiked before zeroing given things like severance packages, and the idea that CoH was canceled to redirect resources someplace is pretty dubious. Unless there was some substantial non-monthly cost coming up (and the idea it was licensing to Cryptic was thoroughly debunked) it is basically impossible for them to ever have gained any cash pool, even temporary, to spend someplace else, and even if there were such a cost we don't know about, it strains belief that it could have possibly been of the scale to even be noticeable in the scope of their overall financials, either in the form of numbers posted for investors or in terms of what it could be spend on otherwise.

The bottom line is that if the game was actually profitable, and I mean profitable from the perspective of all costs, with nothing hidden away in disjoint billing departments or only partially related managers in other locations, killing it could never have been for any financial motive, long or short term. It wasn't to boost numbers, it wasn't to reinvest elsewhere. I am not sure what their actual motives were, but let's not go making up reasons for them that don't even make sense.

Aggelakis

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2012, 12:01:37 AM »
Actually, the way businesses state their "losses" is often weird and seems shady to outsiders. Using your numbers because I don't have any of my own (THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE):

In one part of their report, closing Paragon Studios means they cut costs by $700k.

In a completely separate part of the report, they report an "opportunity loss" of $100k ($800k sales - $700k costs).

Reports after that will make no mention whatsoever of the potential sales/costs of the closed project, thus a net zero...no loss.
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JWBullfrog

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2012, 01:02:41 AM »
NCsoft, an online-game maker, headed for the lowest close since May 11, 2010. Nexon, a Japanese online gaming company, plunged 16 percent in Tokyo after it trimmed its forecast and was cut to underperform from buy at CLSA Ltd.

Link for the original:
http://www.ipotnews.com/index.php?jdl=Most_Emerging_Stocks_Fall__Led_by_ONGC_on_Earnings&level2=newsandopinion&id=1705162&img=level1_emergingmarket_1&urlImage=
 
this was posted today. interesting little bit of info there.
 
 
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Atlantea

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2012, 02:49:10 AM »
Has anyone checked on the Stock values of other game companies like EA, Activision and the like for a comparison?


eabrace

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2012, 03:02:10 AM »
Has anyone checked on the Stock values of other game companies like EA, Activision and the like for a comparison?
EA: http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=EA.OQ
Activition: http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=ATVI.OQ
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Atlantea

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2012, 03:18:47 AM »
Hm. At a glance it looks as if EA is going up and down but more or less in a consistent range. Slightly trending down.

Activision is less stable. They're more on a downward glide. But averaging out the ups and downs it still seems consistent.

Overall downward trend, given the elections and such, is not surprising. But neither of them show the extreme "cliff-jumping" that NCSoft's stocks seem to have suffered.

(Of course I should mention - I know next to nothing about how to really interpret all this. Just looking at the general graph lines and seeing if I can see any patterns.)

Aggelakis

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Re: NCsoft Earning report is out
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2012, 03:40:38 AM »
EA has been in a steady decline for about a year. However, looking over the longterm, it's moderately stable comparison to the average of the last several years. It totally tanked in late 2008, likely to do with the beginning of the recession and everyone scrambling to be able to afford things - video games (especially online) are often the first thing to go (even though they're cheaper BY FAR than the average family's eating out/movie budget).

Activision has been relatively steady for the last few years, within tolerance, with some cyclical ups and downs (new games/expansions/school year starts/ends/christmas season). It exploded upward at the middle of 2008 followed by a tank near the end of the year, again likely to do with the recession.

All the veteran game companies/publishers I've looked at have shown the same. Tanking in 2008 or 2009 is common, along with a "long term" "fairly steady" status, though many have taken some small losses in the last year.
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