Kallisti Wharf... WOW

[Copper Cockroach]

Thanks once again to Leandro (and Dr. Leo, of course) for for this new video tour of Issue 25's lost zone, Kallisti Wharf. Prepare to have your heart broken. What a tragic waste.

I'm not sure where it's meant to be shoehorned into the map (I meant to ask Posi on the Coffee Talk the other day and spaced out), but it's one of the areas "between the War Walls" that we've all wondered about. It looks relatively intact; what the hell's going on out there? Well, in this case a lot of Cole's out-of-work Imperial Architects and construction workers were on the job... Kallisti Wharf would've brought a touch of Praetorian Class to Primal Earth. I love the new full-sized hospital, the parks, one with a bandstand (and one with a "tent city" of Praetorian refugees?). You don't see it in this video, but there's one of those "sky dome" buildings, like the one in Atlas Park. Also not seen here is an intriguing structure that I have to assume was going to be the Paragon City Courthouse; a stately, modern building that would fill Cole's totalitarian heart with pride (maybe he can see it from his cell in the Zig), with "Pro Bono Publico" carved over the door and a helipad on the roof, presumably for transferring dangerous villains. I wonder what would've gone on in there?

I also love the signs that the zone was almost-but-not-quite ready; the floating Monorail beam with its supports yards off to the side, and the "roads to nowhere" by the island.

Even with Sentinel, there'll always be nine holes in my badge collection where Kallisti Wharf's Exploration Badges should've gone.

EDIT: I tend to refer to this zone in the past tense; apologies if it seems to send a "negative vibe". I'm holding out hope, too, don't worry. At any rate it's good to know the zone does exist, somewhere, in some form... and that some persons can somehow gain access to it...

[Knightslayer]

Thanks once again to Leandro for for this new video tour of Issue 25's lost zone, Kallisti Wharf. Prepare to have your heart broken. What a tragic waste.

*sighs* It worked...
I can only echo the sentiment... what a tragic waste indeed... 

[Segev]

Would the makers of this guided tour be willing to set up a twitchTV broadcast for the 20th of Oct., when we have our media day guests paying attention? It sounds like a good thing to add to the program.

[TimtheEnchanter]

Sheesh, and I thought Founder's Falls was the Park Avenue of Paragon City.

What were the bright white objects dotting one part of the terrain? Untextured objects or something else?

[Copper Cockroach]

What were the bright white objects dotting one part of the terrain? Untextured objects or something else?

I think those were the possible tent city I referred to... but yeah, at first glance i thought they might be "untextured" rocks or something. Leandro mentioned that this was only the first fly-thru he'll do. Maybe we'll get a better look.

EDIT: On repeat viewing, I notice there are blank white "placeholders" all over the map, especially lining the streets. Mysterious.

I was watching in full-screen and kept getting the urge to right-click to pan the camera around as Dr. Leo flew over interesting stuff.

[Codewalker]

Also not seen here is an intriguing structure that I have to assume was going to be the Paragon City Courthouse; a stately, modern building that would fill Cole's totalitarian heart with pride (maybe he can see it from his cell in the Zig), with "Pro Bono Publico" carved over the door and a helipad on the roof, presumably for transferring dangerous villains. I wonder what would've gone on in there?

Judging from some other clues present in the files, I think that's the new PPD headquarters and training academy, presumably relocated there after the attack on King's Row.

[Copper Cockroach]

Judging from some other clues present in the files, I think that's the new PPD headquarters and training academy, presumably relocated there after the attack on King's Row.

Verrry eeen-teresting. Not quite as impressive as their skyscraper super-fortress from Kings Row, but I guess everyone's dealing with budget cuts. Fortunately the Wharf doesn't look like a hotbed of criminal activity... or... does it?

[DrakeGrimm]

...was that a non-emo gazebo I saw?



...I want to cry now.

* DrakeGrimm paws at zone

[Teege]

It's pretty, that's for sure. However I liked the distinction between Paragon City and Praetoria and it feels too much like a Praetorian city.

[Copper Cockroach]

...was that a non-emo gazebo I saw?



...I want to cry now.

* DrakeGrimm paws at zone

I see at least a half-dozen spots that were clearly intended as scenic public gathering places. KW would've been the new place to go for costume contests, online radio dance parties, in-game weddings, et cetera. It shows the Devs were well aware of the growing importance of social interaction in this game, apart from the usual battling & leveling.

EDIT: I just watched it again... PUH-LEEZE, gimme a break, that gazebo was designed for NO OTHER PURPOSE than to host in-game weddings. One more very good reason to save this game: not only do families come together to play it, it brings families together in the first place. That's no small thing, there.

[TimtheEnchanter]

I see at least a half-dozen spots that were clearly intended as scenic public gathering places. KW would've been the new place to go for costume contests, online radio dance parties, in-game weddings, et cetera. It shows the Devs were well aware of the growing importance of social interaction in this game, apart from the usual battling & leveling.

Yeah, gawd, I was noticing that too. A clean-cut party town if I ever saw one.

The event planner in me was enviously eying both the large square pavilion, and the waterfront.

[Golden Girl]

I was about to post the Kallisti Warf link to help with motivation

[Altoholic Monkey]

Lovely...I only wish Lenadro would have hid his character...lol he's blocking most of the awesome.

[QuantumHero]

Just kinda curious is it physically possible to get an "Angelius Animi special" video set there

Would make quite the showcase for media day

My favorite zones tend to be the mold breaking ones but this had....HAS....so much potential.

Goes to watch "Always a good time" for the 12th time today to keep her spirits up

[HEATSTROKE]

OMG that made me cry....

 Come on CoH has to be saved !!!!

[Atlantea]

How do you even get here? Is this on Beta server?

[Golden Girl]

How do you even get here? Is this on Beta server?

As far as I know, the way he got there was by using demo-record - so he's not actually gotten there in-game - he's just edited a demo file to replace a live zone with the Kallisti Warf data that must already be in the game.

[TimtheEnchanter]

As far as I know, the way he got there was by using demo-record - so he's not actually gotten there in-game - he's just edited a demo file to replace a live zone with the Kallisti Warf data that must already be in the game.

If he recorded the flight in a different zone then, how did he know where to go and what to look at?

[Golden Girl]

I suspect that little piggies might have been invovled in working out where to move the avatar with demo edits.

[TimtheEnchanter]

I suspect that little piggies might have been invovled in working out where to move the avatar with demo edits.

O_O Leandro is holding out on us then.

Leandro! Give us the piggies!

[eabrace]

As far as I know, the way he got there was by using demo-record - so he's not actually gotten there in-game - he's just edited a demo file to replace a live zone with the Kallisti Warf data that must already be in the game.

If the zone is defined, there are ways to reach it even if it's not hooked up to anything yet.  He may have teleported himself there.

[dwturducken]

The last few shots, with the familiar elements like the train station in the middle of all the new stuff, was a bit like the scene in StarGate Atlantis when they show the Replicator city built around a copy of Atlantis.

Anyway, it raises a question that I'll pose in the Sunset side, but it is nice to be able to see it.  I agree to some extent about the different feel between Praetoria and Paragon, but I didn't really dislike the changes to Atlas.  Thanks to Leandro for posting this.

[Copper Cockroach]

How do you even get here? Is this on Beta server?

I can't BEGIN to imagine how he did it. I'm a Vigilante. We don't ask a lot of questions.

[emu265]

Whoa.  How sad, it's so pretty. 

[Codewalker]

If the zone is defined, there are ways to reach it even if it's not hooked up to anything yet.

I'm fairly sure it doesn't exist as an actual zone, even on beta. It's completely missing any spawn points other than the roof access doors, and the translation for the zone name is missing. So other than getting a dev to manually spawn it as a mission map I don't think it's loaded. It could be hidden somewhere I didn't check though.

So probably a demoedit. There's an odd slide between the walking and flying portions that could indicate that, and a couple animation glitches later. I can think of a couple other ways to do it like clientside map replacement, but that's arguably more work than a demoedit, even if you work in having to map out the coordinates.

It's a nice flythrough, and I'm sad that the zone didn't get finished. For the next one you should go out to the floating building in the middle of the water.

[Codewalker]

Wait a minute, that's not City_05_02, at least not the version that's in issue 24 beta. The piece in the middle of the water is different, it looks like some grass and such instead of the building that's there in the I24 copy.

Edit: Oh, I see. The copies for the instanced outdoor missions are made from a newer version of the zone than the one that's in City_05_02. It looks like the zone was made larger at some point to make room for the park in the middle; that's why part of the war wall is missing.

[Turjan]

That Leandro...the lad's a wizard all right, no doubt about it

Daaaamn that's a pretty zone. And not just pretty, it actually looks...planned, you know? Like good city planning with ergonomics and all that jazz? I've had a beef with the Paragon City Planning Department ever since they ran the tram right under the beautiful bridges in Founders Falls, ruining the zone's picture postcard vista - but with Kallisti Wharf, all is most definitely forgiven.

And I'll just add - WANT!!

[Olantern]

Neat.  It's very pretty, quite unlike the feeling I expected for the zone.  I like the way it looks like an entirely new zone, even though most of those art elements already exist in-game.

I agree that it looked a bit more "Praetorian" than "Paragonian."  Actually, like the Praetorian zones, it really reminded me of a Californian more than an East Coast city.  When I hear "wharf" in a zone name, I think of a gritty, Kings Row-like, On the Waterfront type of place.  Here, it looks as if the inspiration was more Fisherman's Wharf.  (This shouldn't be surprising, given the devs' location, but all the Californian architectural elements continue to surprise me.)

[Zombie Man]

Well, if anyone has the know-how, would they please post a demofile of the zone. This way, with the new detached-camera feature, we can all explore it and upload walk-throughs and screen caps.

[Zombie Hustler]

That is really cool looking; I like how they have a gap in the War Walls to allow incoming and exiting marine transport. I just wish Leandro had gotten more of the actual wharf part down by the water, as opposed to the more inland portion.

I especially like the covered walkway from the transit station. That's pretty awesome.

I couldn't quite tell from the demo- is that island portion supposed to be where the Praetorian refuge from i24 is located?

[dwturducken]

I'm not sure we were seeing an intentional "break" in the war wall. There are some graphical glitches as the angle of view changes, particularly when it changes quickly.

Am I mistaken, or was that supposed to be a "tent city" in one of the parks?

[Codewalker]

I'm not sure we were seeing an intentional "break" in the war wall. There are some graphical glitches as the angle of view changes, particularly when it changes quickly.

I'm don't think it's intentional. There's an older version of the zone in the files, where the two land pieces are closer together. It looks like the zone was "stretched" to make room for the floating park in the middle, and the gap in the war walls is just the resulting empty space that hadn't been filled after the two land masses were moved apart. The south war walls look like another segment was pasted into the gap, that partly overlaps the existing ones. I'm sure they would have come back and fixed both sides later.

[TimtheEnchanter]

I'm not sure we were seeing an intentional "break" in the war wall. There are some graphical glitches as the angle of view changes, particularly when it changes quickly.

Am I mistaken, or was that supposed to be a "tent city" in one of the parks?

I was wondering that when I first saw it but then though naaa. This is the LAST place in town where I'd expect a tent city to spring up.

[dwturducken]

My first thought was that it was a glitch that would resolve, and I'd see something Carnival, but the tents stayed white.  I always hated the Carnival, but I had very few characters high enough to encounter them, so I always thought they needed to show up earlier, but I digress. And abuse the compound sentence.

[Codewalker]

I think the textures simply weren't implemented yet. The object in question is:

City_Zones/Kallisti_Wharf/Props/Military/KW_ArmyTent

Given their proximity to the tanks on the street, that makes sense. The tents are all part of the "grp_Block_VanguardCO" group.

[dwturducken]

Ah. Missed the tanks. There are also what look like a couple of "deuce and a halfs."

[Zombie Hustler]

If those are Vanguard associated tents, they probably are Praetorian refugees. I can't recall offhand what i24 says about Kallisti Wharf, but I know it gets mentioned in at least two of the story arcs (mentioned during the New Praetorians and during the Skulls story arcs). Possibly three (I want to say at least one villain arc references it. Mr. G's?)

[Victoria Victrix]

Could be a tent city for the Carnival of Light, which evacuated the last of its members just before Cole went 'splody.

[Zombie Hustler]

Black Pebble's weighed in a couple of times on a thread about it that Golden Girl started on the CoH forums. Leandro posted some other really nice screenies, too.

Looks like it was to have been a Co-Op zone, where heroes and villains had their own story content. And a Statesman Memorial Park.

[DrakeGrimm]

Black Pebble's weighed in a couple of times on a thread about it that Golden Girl started on the CoH forums. Leandro posted some other really nice screenies, too.

Looks like it was to have been a Co-Op zone, where heroes and villains had their own story content. And a Statesman Memorial Park.

...ow. That one hits below the belt. Way to be dicks, NCSoft. Way to be dicks. I didn't even like Statesman, but he definitely earned that memorial. Way to take that way.

[emu265]

...ow. That one hits below the belt. Way to be dicks, NCSoft. Way to be dicks. I didn't even like Statesman, but he definitely earned that memorial. Way to take that way.

I know, right?  It's unbelievable how much further the devs were than where the game is now.