Possible Call to Action: NUTS!

[Sleepy Wonder]

Please hold your money until something more official can be written in stone.

This is just an idea, but a few years ago I used to watch a TV show on CBS called Jericho. It was eventually canceled, but brought back by our fan protests.

You can read about it on google or paragonwiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_%28TV_series%29

but the highlights include "Several online communities, including the official Jericho forums, launched campaigns in an effort to revive the show. Fans also sent just over 20 tons of nuts to CBS headquarters; this referred to a scene from the season one finale "Why We Fight" where Jake Green repeats General Anthony McAuliffe's historic phrase "Nuts!" from the Battle of the Bulge.[21] The peanuts and other proceeds from the donations have been donated to charities,[22] including the rebuilding effort in Greensburg, Kansas,[23] a town that was largely destroyed by a tornado in 2007."

The company that they bought them from is at: http://nuts.com/nutsforjericho.html

and "Jericho fans continued efforts to resurrect the series,[51][52] including a one-page advertisement in the April 25, 2008 edition of Variety magazine.[53] A second advertisement appeared in The Hollywood Reporter, as well as banner ads on the Variety and Hollywood Reporter websites."

http://www.gaebler.com/Variety-magazine-advertising-costs++39329

^ I remember the fans paid around that price of $16,000 or so for the ad. If we can make $1,000 for a dinner for the devs in less than a day, this should be no problem if we consider Variety or some other magazine.

There are many ways we can still make our voices heard, and I figure looking into past tactics might help us in the future if someone wants to get something rolling.

I can almost see the look on some high ranking exec's face if 20 tons of nuts suddenly showed up in their mail room. It's not something they can easily throw away like masks or capes.

I also remember the fans purchasing something nice for the poor secretary at CBS that had to deal with it all. Even though Jericho was still eventually canceled after a short revival, our goal isn't to get NCSoft to continue investing in the game, but to at least consider that maybe they really haven't exhausted all options as they claim.


PS:

To put this into perspective, this is 6 thousand pounds of penuts: http://cdn.nuts.com/images/auto/801x534/assets/d68d72f47595dd13.jpg

To reach 20 tons (we could probably do more), would require 3500~ people to fork up a month's subscription cost of CoH.

I also thought of one more thing.. if these nuts were to go to Korean offices, maybe sending socks might be a better way to make an impact. From what I know, socks are highly valuable to North Koreans, and there are a lot of sympathizers in the South who often send packages like a pair of socks, via balloons to North Korea.

Regardless of political affiliation in the region, this has always struck me as a noble thing to do. Perhaps in some ways by sending tons of socks our message might be less annoying, and the meaning behind it might be better understood. Our willingness to sacrifice our money for the greater good, regardless of their decision. A show of both humanity and our collective voices of our protest against their decision. 

Now, North Korea generally doesn't like it when South Koreans do this, so I can't imagine NCSoft having a hand in it, but they could always donate them to charity just the same as with CBS doing with their peanuts. One way or the other word will spread of where this charity came from and why.

I would also like to emphasize the importance of  this going to Korean offices and not NCSoft West, since we all know about how the communication has been working with the mothership. If we send them to offices in the US, the mothership solution would probably be along the lines of "Eat them all, or you're fired."

So we really need to go Independence Day on their asses and bring down their shields by sending a viru-I mean, peanuts, or socks, to the mothership.

[dwturducken]

Much of this has been covered, but it's probably 14 pages back in the threads list.  You do have one idea that I have not seen, yet, and I think it really deserves attention!

A few days ago, the idea was tossed around to send flowers to various execs.  We have been sending a lot of stuff to the NCSoft offices. We really should show some love to the poor person who has to deal with all of this. Does anyone have an idea how to find out his or her name, or can we just send flowers to "Receptionist?"

[Sleepy Wonder]

That is fine, but we need a BIGGER and more FOCUSED effort to make an impact. If everyone is sending different letters and stuff, that's fine, but I think it would be different if we can pool our efforts into a common goal in some way. Perhaps we or Tony could set up a paypal account or something, where none of the money gets spent unless we achieve our estimated cost to go forward with any such idea.

Then, he or someone else can purchase and send the items to the proper offices. This way we can lessen the burden on us "common folk" of having to go out and purchase something and manage the shipping issues. We could probably work with a manufacturer directly, and get a bulk discount maybe, and have them all shipped together.

[Atlantea]

Oooh... I LIKE this idea!

I also like the idea of doing something nice for the poor receptionist that has to deal with our stuff. Maybe put together some money to give them and their family a dinner out to the restaurant of their choice? Certainly not as expensive as doing so for the whole Paragon Crew.




(And the reference to General McAuliffe appeals to the history buff in me.

Here's a couple of other inspirational quotes that the above reminded me of.

At the Chosin Reservoir breakout during the Korean War,  a reporter asked U.S. Marine General Oliver P. Smith if this was the first retreat the US Marines had ever had to make. The response was legendary -
- "Retreat, hell! We're not retreating, we're just advancing in a different direction!"

And another from USMC Lieutenant General Lewis Burwell "Chesty" Puller (What a name!) -
- "So they've got us surrounded, good! Now we can fire in any direction, those bastards won't get away this time!"

Gotta love the marines, goddamn glorious crazy bastards are SCRAPPERS every last one of 'em! )

[Sleepy Wonder]

Another thing I wanted to point out is this:

We're all busy people.

20,000 signatures on a petition (I dont know how many are doubles or not but..) might not sound like a major number to some people but you have to remember the collective laziness of well meaning folk. I'm sure every one of the 100,000+ or more subscribers that number represents would love just as much as the rest of us to see City of Heroes come back to life.

The problem is most people will look at that and go "well someone else is making noise for me, so I'll just sit back and let them do the work".

Tony is doing something for all of us, and that is being a singular voice. He may not represent everybody, and everybody may not agree with him on certain points, but by trying to lead, he is quieting everyone else down. His voice is louder than ours, and so a lot of people are probably just hanging back and waiting. I only registered an hour ago, but this last announcement from NCSoft has had me thinking, so I figure I'd chime in with at least -something-.

My -something- is that in my opinion, we need less individuality and more group focused efforts that can get EVERYBODY involved.

What I mean is, for example, with an idea like mine, the instructions could be as easy as a few mouse clicks and a payment with a debit card. There's no rallying halfway across the country that turns people away because they can't participate, or talk of sending emails to people half of us don't know who is who or what email or phone number to contact, because there isn't any list I can see immediately displayed with such things.

Most of us are admittedly short on our attention span, and we're used to having things spelled out for us in clear terms. If a website doesn't load in 5 seconds we give up and go on to other things because we're impatient. Also, take a look at the number of views v.s. replies on these threads. Certainly most people viewing any thread would have an opinion about it. Most of them though just read it and move on without providing any form of constructive input. If half of the 96 or so views this thread received in 30 minutes were to have posted it's a good or bad idea, I'd have either deleted the thread or already started ordering nuts. That's -most- people.

So again, I propose that any effort requiring attention that involves money, be made as clear and as easy as possible for everyone to contribute.

The idea of sending some secretary flowers is nice, but people are going to move on if they don't know who to throw their money at.

Depending on the communities thoughts of if this might be feasible or a safe thing to do, I will look into who best to send them to whether it be nuts or socks or something else even to better our message, along with a price estimate and address to send it to. It probably will cost more whatever it is due to overseas shipping costs though.

[Teege]

"I'm nuts over this idea!"

[Heroette]

I personally think sending socks is a great idea.  Its not too expensive and if you could just buy them online and dropship them to Korea, it would be a very easy thing to do.  We should send them "Super Hero" socks.  I am sure they are out there to purchase.  I think that would send them a nice message.

[Soundtrack]

At one point didn't people send masks and capes? Or am I misremembering it?

[Teege]

At one point didn't people send masks and capes? Or am I misremembering it?

They did and still do. There is a sticky for the topic.

[Soundtrack]

Thanks, Teege.

So am I to understand that people are proposing we send something IN ADDITION to the capes and masks?

[Ironwolf]

The heroes of Paragon SOCK it to NCSoft and all of their stock holders............I can see the headlines now.

There is your Meme - Goldie Hawn saying Sock it to me!

[Sleepy Wonder]

These are brilliant and encouraging replies. Good spin on that Ironwolf!

But yes, in addition to capes and masks, the idea behind something else like this thread, is.. and this is important here..

What we send must be USEFUL. There isn't a lot they can do with masks and capes unless they want to donate it to trick or treaters. It's a great concept, but at the same time.. its 1 dimentional.

With Jericho, CBS just couldn't throw it away.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would throw away perfectly good food or clothing though, which is why this is important, because it generates buzz.

They would have to do something with the stuff, and again, what separates this from masks and capes is that word spreads beyond their offices. The more buzz that is out there, the better.

How would South Koreans feel knowing a bunch of Americans (and you non Americans out there) halfway across the globe were willing to throw away their money in support of something as charitable as making sure people's feet were warm in the cold winters over there? I'm talking a lot of socks here..

When they realize where these socks are coming from (NCSoft, should they donate them to some Korean charity) they're going to look at NCSoft with a very stern eye.

I can't see a scenario where we are seen as disruptive or annoying. In fact, the more I think about it, the less PEANUTS would work in this case. I think socks, and even underwear would be the way to go here. Warm clothing in fact too.

Now I know there are plenty of homeless people in the US who could use all of this, but this isn't about charity mainly, it is about our voices first and foremost, charity is what comes off as a result of expressing our voices in a way that is not disruptive or counter intuitive.

Our message needs to get to NCSoft HQ in Korea, not the Salvation Army who can't change NCSoft's minds.

Even if we fail, at least we did someone, somewhere in the world, good. And that is what being a hero is all about.

[dwturducken]

Our message needs to get to NCSoft HQ in Korea, not the Salvation Army who can't change NCSoft's minds.

A sudden influx of clothing donations from a corporation to a charity gets local media attention, which often gets national media attention.  While I would not put it past NCSoft to ignore requests from reporters or interns about that, as well, the story would still get attention.

[Segev]

When I was a kid, I know there were socks with characters and other images on the upper portion that goes around the ankle, intended for kids.

Might we buy superhero-themed ones for this effort? We wouldn't even need to worry about IP problems because we're buying merchandise and donating it, not trying to generate profits from DC or Marvel's property.

[Sleepy Wonder]

A sudden influx of clothing donations from a corporation to a charity gets local media attention, which often gets national media attention.  While I would not put it past NCSoft to ignore requests from reporters or interns about that, as well, the story would still get attention.

Precisely. The "where it came from and why" part is what would come out regardless if it came from NCSoft or somewhere else. People would look at the City of Heroes community hopefully, then look back to NCSoft and wonder why they had to close it, then look back to our community and hopefully see the value beyond money that we possess. That it isn't just the game anymore, it's the value in the community that supports the game as well.

And you can't purchase good will and customer loyalty. To me, this community came together on it's own, for one reason or another. The game made it possible, and we want more than anything to preserve it. That's all we want.

[Sleepy Wonder]

When I was a kid, I know there were socks with characters and other images on the upper portion that goes around the ankle, intended for kids.

Might we buy superhero-themed ones for this effort? We wouldn't even need to worry about IP problems because we're buying merchandise and donating it, not trying to generate profits from DC or Marvel's property.

Anything with logos is probably going to cost more. I was thinking wholesale manufacturers. Given the culture differences, it might be unwise to some degree, to send them stuff they might not wear, even though whoever it would be going to probably wouldn't care.

I for one though would perfer white socks over blue superman logo emblazoned socks if you offered them to me for free right now. Within each box we could throw in a few fliers from the WWII Poster thread maybe, and nice, well written and well meaning letters to the CEO perhaps. A sort of "Please reconsider, and please donate these to those in need if you are unable to find a suitable place to store them."

[Segev]

Well, for the mass numbers, wholesale IS the best bet. I was thinking as something individuals could buy and send in to be added to the packages, maybe with personal notes.

[Heroette]

I searched online and you can actually find socks with capes on them - lol.  I don't know if that is a little overboard but there are super heroes socks out there.

[jeangray]

The peanut thing-flat out no, it's been done and do you realize there seem to be more peanut allergies than there use to be? (I'm assuming due to more people...but not really as important as there ARE peanut allergies.)

Now socks...that is an interesting idea and although it's not anything thematically related to the game...I'd be on-board for giving it a go.  You make some excellent points for why socks would be a good idea that I cannot ignore.  In a few other places I also have been in agreement with advertising ideas as well for our cause so I'll be watching this thread with great interest. 

[dwturducken]

Wait, Jericho causes peanut allergies? Mother of Pearl!

Seriously, though, how about coffee beans?  It fits with the "exhausted" theme that's running around on some other threads.

[Sleepy Wonder]

Wait, Jericho causes peanut allergies? Mother of Pearl!

Seriously, though, how about coffee beans?  It fits with the "exhausted" theme that's running around on some other threads.

I love the coffee bean idea, I truly do. Unfortunately, my guess is they would be incredibly expensive in terms of price per lb, and probably not nearly as useful, unless it were coffee grounds. Then again coffee grounds don't stay fresh very long after the bean is ground. It's interesting though.. it would be interesting to include say, 1 bag of coffee with a note attached within every box of socks; "Have you really exhausted all options? Have some coffee, you're gonna need it!"

[Prexx]

I vote for the socks.  Aside from the mentioned regional/humanitarian significance, I think that it is more likely to gain media attention due to the seemingly random nature.

The heroes of Paragon SOCK it to NCSoft and all of their stock holders............I can see the headlines now.

This.  So very much this.  Never pass up an opportunity for a good pun.

[eabrace]

Just a thought here:  When we're talking about sending food items to someone, are we talking about sending them within the US, or are we talking about exporting them to S. Korea?  I'm pretty sure there are special regulations that apply when shipping foodstuffs internationally.  Or am I wrong about that?

But if we're only talking about sending things to NC West, that shouldn't be an issue.

[dwturducken]

I'm not as familiar with the Jericho thing as some, here.  Are we talking about some bulk mailing?  I may have missed a detail, somewhere, but I thought we were talking about something new to send. I figured an envelope with a coffee bean in it should be small and inexpensive to mail.

[Ironwolf]

Ok, can we get a list of the addresses for all of the NCSoft offices and Stockholders that are known?

I will buy some socks tomorrow.

[Sleepy Wonder]

In response to both your questions:

Good point eabrace, there probably might be. So it's better to stick with say, socks and other clothing. Primarily socks. If we send 2 tons of woman's underwear, I don't want to know what their faces would look like.

And we're talking about sending them to Korea, since at this point, its safe to assume they are the only real people who can change the course of this action, since from my understanding, NCSoft West and the now defunct Paragon Studios really has no say in the matter.

This is about IMPACT.

It needs to be real, and not a phone call or notification from NCSoft West to the "mothership" explaining the situation. It needs to be something that the people who can possibly give it more thought will see first hand. They will not be able to tell their drones to "deal with it", as they will have to deal with it themselves.

We're not being disruptive here either. As mentioned in my "Why it's time to go to war" thread, they brought this on themselves by either lying to us, or just plain failing to understand the role of a customer in a business relationship. Businesses who treat us the way they do not deserve light "sentences" here.

And to dwturducken, again, impact. 1 envelope with 1 bean in it will not be nearly as impressive as tons of boxes of stuff. Stuff that cost money that we are willing to pay for to be heard, and if it falls on deaf ears, they will also consider the nature in which we planned for it, by them at least being able to donate the items, which will in turn possibly garner national media attention in the US and Korea, but that is not our primary purpose.

And don't go buying socks just yet, we need to send them all at the same time in massive shipments. There will need to be waves of them, and after that, individual packages will suffice.

The fans of Jericho needed only $50,000 to change CBS's minds. That's a lot of money from a small group of people who watch a TV show to go out and buy stuff they see from the advertisers on the network. That's chump change compared to what we can raise.

So again, save your money. I will look into (unless anyone else wants to) finding a site where we can pledge money to see if we can come close to our goals. It only requires those that pledge, put aside that amount and not touch it until its time to commit.

[eabrace]

I don't want to know what their faces would look like.

I'd pay to see those expressions when they opened the packages. 

[frostcoh]

I saw something in here about sending Socks?  Perfect, it avoids the allergy thing, we can write "savecoh" right on the sock, and I have a lot of mismated socks, where the dryer or washer has eaten one but not the other, now instead of looking at this box, it has a purpose, I say we do this!

[Sleepy Wonder]

Okay, I setup an account at Pledgie.com, but they take 3% of donations, and from the looks of it, donations are taken immediately, which sort of defeats the purpose of a pledge, but in any case, it might be the way to go. I found a cheap wholesaler, and with a total of $100,000 (thats 6.5k people donating $15, which isn't a lot) we can probably drum up a million and a half pairs of socks, maybe more. Depends on shipping expenses to Korea and what combination the packages include..or some other combination of cold weather stuff. With the go ahead from a few more folks, I may start accepting donations.

Before we take any donations though I want to get ahold of the wholesaler to see if they can give us a special deal where they will personalize the packaging by letting all of you send in fliers and other misc. stuff before they seal the boxes for us.

So all anyone has to do is either donate, or donate and send items to the wholesaler and we can have them hold off shipment until a set date (when all of your includes, like fliers have arrived).

[Segev]

Kickstarter takes around 10% after both they and Amazon take their cut, but they don't take any money from anybody until the threshold is met. Downside: this likely won't qualify as a "project" by their rules, so it may not be valid to use them at all.

If you're concerned about the money changing hands before it's sure to be enough, we could have an unofficial pledge list managed by TonyV or another well-trusted voice in this community and gather the money ourselves when we have enough.

[Sleepy Wonder]

Kickstarter takes around 10% after both they and Amazon take their cut, but they don't take any money from anybody until the threshold is met. Downside: this likely won't qualify as a "project" by their rules, so it may not be valid to use them at all.

If you're concerned about the money changing hands before it's sure to be enough, we could have an unofficial pledge list managed by TonyV or another well-trusted voice in this community and gather the money ourselves when we have enough.

That would be good, and I am very concerned about it.. I don't want to hit say 80,000 and come up short. I want this to be all or nothing. It would be a nightmare sending all that money back to everyone. I checked kickstarter and they don't qualify this as a project unfortunately, which is a shame, because like you said, they let you pledge first and pay later once the goal is met.

Is there an easy way for him to calculate pledges? I kind of want the community to know about it, as many as possible, while keeping it on the down low for outsiders for the time being.

[Segev]

Other than PMing TonyV and asking him to look at this thread and see if he thinks he can orchestrate it better than "using pledgie," I can't think of a good way to find out.

I am not a well-known and trusted name around here, so I won't even TRY to orchestrate something where people are trusting me with their money. I may know I'd be as scrupulously honest as possible, but I cannot expect others to take my word for it. For all they know, I could be a Nigerian Prince trying to give them $10 million US. 

[Electric-Knight]

I saw the thread title and assumed you were recruiting me.

Haha, I'll keep my eye out for how this proceeds!

[Sleepy Wonder]

Well, that would require him setting up a seperate paypal account that I have access too which isn't linked to a bank account. Unless he can do it by himself, and I'll just set up the order and work with the wholesaler, then have Tony pay once the donations are done, if that could be arranged, so the trust issue is not something I'm worried about.

I PMed him earlier about a sticky but I don't think he's read it yet.

I have a very good feeling about this effort. 

[frostcoh]

Okay, I setup an account at Pledgie.com, but they take 3% of donations, and from the looks of it, donations are taken immediately, which sort of defeats the purpose of a pledge, but in any case, it might be the way to go. I found a cheap wholesaler, and with a total of $100,000 (thats 6.5k people donating $15, which isn't a lot) we can probably drum up a million and a half pairs of socks, maybe more. Depends on shipping expenses to Korea and what combination the packages include..or some other combination of cold weather stuff. With the go ahead from a few more folks, I may start accepting donations.

Before we take any donations though I want to get ahold of the wholesaler to see if they can give us a special deal where they will personalize the packaging by letting all of you send in fliers and other misc. stuff before they seal the boxes for us.

So all anyone has to do is either donate, or donate and send items to the wholesaler and we can have them hold off shipment until a set date (when all of your includes, like fliers have arrived).

So we're donating real clothes, I must have misread the above posts, awesome.  If this goes through this thread should be stickied with the specifics moved to the top post.

[Dr Shadow]

I like this idea.
I would recommend looking into legalities because I have no idea what the sanctions our government has or against who.

[Sleepy Wonder]

I like this idea.
I would recommend looking into legalities because I have no idea what the sanctions our government has or against who.

There's nothing illegal about shipping clothing to South Korea. They are an ally to the United States and we maintain a military presence there to thwart an invasion attempt by the North, and have done so ever since the end of the Korean War. If I've mentioned "Korea" I probably mean "South Korea".

[Ironwolf]

I think you need to include all of the listed share holders as well.

NCSoft so far has been the only one affected. Time for everyone that touched the company to hear from us.

[chasearcanum]

Just gotta say that I'm 100% behind this idea, though part of me has to wonder...

We've shipped Capes & Masks  to NCsoft.  Socks are useful and probably more media-friendly, but if we WERE continuing the trend... well... heroes are known for wearing their underwear on the outside, right?

 

[Atlantea]

Just gotta say that I'm 100% behind this idea, though part of me has to wonder...

We've shipped Capes & Masks  to NCsoft.  Socks are useful and probably more media-friendly, but if we WERE continuing the trend... well... heroes are known for wearing their underwear on the outside, right?

 

Part of me thinks that's BRILLIANT! 

But... er... on second thought... That might get snickers from the press we DON'T want aimed at US. Yes - WE get the joke. We can't assume the PRESS gets the joke. I mean that could be misconstrued as "potty humor" and play into stereotypes we don't need.

As George Carlin once said: "You know how dumb the average guy is? Well, by definition half of them are dumber than THAT!"

Now mind you - if we just send something like long-johns, thermal underwear and stuff like that (NOT tighty whiteys, boxers or panties/bras etc.) it might go over better. I mean the idea here is to keep people warm in colder climates, yes?

[Lucretia MacEvil]

Before we take any donations though I want to get ahold of the wholesaler to see if they can give us a special deal where they will personalize the packaging by letting all of you send in fliers and other misc. stuff before they seal the boxes for us.

Even so, will a bulk order make as much of an impact as a whole bunch of individually-sent packages?
I'm not trying to be negative or divisive, I just want to make sure that we consider every option in order to make this effort as effective as possible.
Whether we go bulk or individual, I'm sure as hell gonna SOCK it too 'em!

[Teege]

I'd go the individual route and not all at once. A steady stream from a lot of people would be more favorable than one gigantic package.

[Sleepy Wonder]

I'd go the individual route and not all at once. A steady stream from a lot of people would be more favorable than one gigantic package.

A steady stream from a lot of people means we wont have any numbers to go by. In addition, we would lose media attention because of the inability to back up our numbers and/or the sheer size of the shipment.

Even so, the idea is multiple large shipments in waves, perhaps a pallet a week.

Regarding personal shipments, if those who donate to the cause ALSO send in their own small packages, that would be ideal.

So for example, Joe donates $15 to the group effort, while he also donates $10 to send in his own package.

Additionally, not everyone can go out to a physical store, purchase a package of socks, then go to the post office and mail it in a timely manner (to include access to a printer to print fliers and/or time to write letters to include). And some people on the "fringe" of such efforts, would find it much more easier to simply sit at their computer, and put in a credit card number to the donation page and that's all they have to do.

[P51mus]

And some people on the "fringe" of such efforts, would find it much more easier to simply sit at their computer, and put in a credit card number to the donation page and that's all they have to do.

It's definitely much easier for me.

[Sleepy Wonder]

I just got off the phone with the merchant. They seem to be willing to hold a large shipment until we can send in fliers and other misc. stuff to include within the boxes before it gets shipped.

I'm trying to think of the best way to do this for everyone. If I tell everyone to send their printed fliers and stuff that they want, and it comes from 200 different people, the merchant will be receiving a lot of mail and we wont really know when everyone is finished mailing their stuff.

So I propose the following:

Someone, somewhere (one of us) becomes the designated recipient for all letters and stuff. Preferably they will have access to a printer. We would need a big stack of fliers this person could get from these forums and mass print at say, Staples or something. They could be reimbursed via paypal depending on the cost.

But this would make it easier to coordinate for the merchant/wholesaler. They could receive 1 box of all of this and then drop them into every box of socks they package up before they send the final shipments.

The guy I spoke with sounded suspicious due to the cost estimate and asked about what charity it was for, so I generally told him it would be shipped to Korea and donated by a 3rd party (NCSoft).

In either case, we need someone willing to share their address with everyone, unless someone here has a PO box or a workplace that doesn't mind receiving all of our letters and whatnot.

I think, again, fliers and posters that are included should be created here, and then the person can download them locally and print those. So all anyone else needs to do is send in their letters, sort of like what we wrote on the petition with a real signature attached.

[Back Blast]

I've never used them, but Indiegogo might be an option. They allow charitable campaigns and they have a 'flexible' funding model option that allows you to miss the target but still keep the cash. Really though, if target estimating is an issue, figure what a minimum order from the wholesaler will cost and peg it there. Or something like that. Basically, what's the minimum needed to make the idea 'work' and have an impact? You can always overfund and exceed the need if things go well. And if that happens, the impact is all the greater.

[Tanglefoe]

Finally, a charity!  Can we please get behind this, get it stickied, and get some serious calls to action for this!

[beveri8469]

i remember when fans of chuck sent subway sandwiches to NBC to renew the show.
i thought that was awesome.
i like the sock idea myself.
ill be on board for that too.

[Lucretia MacEvil]

A steady stream from a lot of people means we wont have any numbers to go by. In addition, we would lose media attention because of the inability to back up our numbers and/or the sheer size of the shipment.

Even so, the idea is multiple large shipments in waves, perhaps a pallet a week.

So, this is more along the lines of a community-solidarity project, showing that we can come together in a united group effort.  That makes sense, since we've already had the masks and capes as an individual project.  I just didn't think of that when I made my earlier comment, I guess.

Regarding personal shipments, if those who donate to the cause ALSO send in their own small packages, that would be ideal.

But the donation to the group effort is the priority, right?  If I can only do one, I should donate?

[dwturducken]

I would suggest a repost (or at least a title change and OP edit) to reflect the refinements that have been agreed to, so far, with a date on which the shipping will occur.  I don't know how much time it would take for something to get from overseas to, say, Texas, but people from all over the world need to have time to get something mailed and received, if they want to do that, but the window cannot be too long, as people here are beginning to get impatient.  Also, we are coming up on the Christmas shopping and mailing season, so that will impact shipping times, at least in the US.

As to the fliers or what-not, the best option would be if the person receiving the what-not be physically in the same city/metro area as the merchant. That way, a lot of uncertainty can be removed.  This will mean moving a lot of people, mentally and emotionally, and that means getting a Titan onboard to get it stickied, which really means getting Tony on board.   This is a good idea, and it's doable, but we need to move fast on it if it's going to happen.

[jeangray]

So, this is more along the lines of a community-solidarity project, showing that we can come together in a united group effort.  That makes sense, since we've already had the masks and capes as an individual project.  I just didn't think of that when I made my earlier comment, I guess.

But the donation to the group effort is the priority, right?  If I can only do one, I should donate?

Know I'm not Sleepy, but by all means if you can only do one it would be ideal to donate to the group project to help get maximum impact for sure.  So, yes, you're right! 

[no hero]

I am interested in this idea. Very interested.

[Sleepy Wonder]

I would suggest a repost (or at least a title change and OP edit) to reflect the refinements that have been agreed to, so far, with a date on which the shipping will occur.  I don't know how much time it would take for something to get from overseas to, say, Texas, but people from all over the world need to have time to get something mailed and received, if they want to do that, but the window cannot be too long, as people here are beginning to get impatient.  Also, we are coming up on the Christmas shopping and mailing season, so that will impact shipping times, at least in the US.

As to the fliers or what-not, the best option would be if the person receiving the what-not be physically in the same city/metro area as the merchant. That way, a lot of uncertainty can be removed.  This will mean moving a lot of people, mentally and emotionally, and that means getting a Titan onboard to get it stickied, which really means getting Tony on board.   This is a good idea, and it's doable, but we need to move fast on it if it's going to happen.

Those are some good points, but a few problems:

I've read TonyV's response to your thread about civility and driving away people, and he mentions/confirms a few of my vague assumptions about him, except that in this particular case I think the donor output would be better if TonyV could vouch for me to handle that kind of money. I don't mind giving him my address and phone number, but I'm a private person so it would have to be only him.

If someone can get Tony's word on any of this, let me know.

Secondly, *assuming* best case scenario, *someone* whether its me or someone else, is going to probably have a lot of suspicion cast on them both from the IRS and everyone else if they suddenly rack up $100,000 in a newly created paypal account.

This sort of thing we're trying for isn't primarily a donation to a named charity per-se, and when you start mentioning how you're going to be sending it to an unsuspecting business who will then *probably* (hopefully) donate it.. peoples eyes start to squint a bit hard at your real intentions. The guy I spoke with on the phone, again, didn't sound like he believed me.

In either case, I will look into refining what we have so far and create a new thread which I can update to reflect bullet points of what I need done.

In the meantime, if someone here has free time and would like to scout generic fliers that reflect everyone's opinion (I saw a few good ones in the flier thread) and pm to me (they've got to be decently sized for printing.. standard paper size is fine) that would be great.

[Samuraiko]

I suggest we ship them No-Doz. "Exhausted all options? Here, this should work."

Or how about Snickers bars? "Not going anywhere for a while?"

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[downix]

I suggest we ship them No-Doz. "Exhausted all options? Here, this should work."

Or how about Snickers bars? "Not going anywhere for a while?"

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

I am tempted to ask my wife to make a batch of her fudge into the COH/COV logo and deliver it to their office.

[dwturducken]

Those are some good points, but a few problems:

I've read TonyV's response to your thread about civility and driving away people, and he mentions/confirms a few of my vague assumptions about him, except that in this particular case I think the donor output would be better if TonyV could vouch for me to handle that kind of money. I don't mind giving him my address and phone number, but I'm a private person so it would have to be only him.

If someone can get Tony's word on any of this, let me know.

Secondly, *assuming* best case scenario, *someone* whether its me or someone else, is going to probably have a lot of suspicion cast on them both from the IRS and everyone else if they suddenly rack up $100,000 in a newly created paypal account.

This sort of thing we're trying for isn't primarily a donation to a named charity per-se, and when you start mentioning how you're going to be sending it to an unsuspecting business who will then *probably* (hopefully) donate it.. peoples eyes start to squint a bit hard at your real intentions. The guy I spoke with on the phone, again, didn't sound like he believed me.

In either case, I will look into refining what we have so far and create a new thread which I can update to reflect bullet points of what I need done.

In the meantime, if someone here has free time and would like to scout generic fliers that reflect everyone's opinion (I saw a few good ones in the flier thread) and pm to me (they've got to be decently sized for printing.. standard paper size is fine) that would be great.

Not sure how I accidentally just posted nothing but a quote.  Maybe it's a sign I should go to bed.

These are good counter points.  I'm not sure how to get around the "quirky" aspect of the charity-but-not-exactly that's being sent to a company that is not a charity. On the face of it, it almost takes us back to doing it individually.  I know that what you were saying about "accounting" was more to do with getting a large order and being sure the merchant gets paid without sticking whoever's name is on the crowdfunding account, but, given some things that have been said in that other thread, it might be taken wrong by those who aren't able to donate at the moment.  We all seem to feel bad if something good comes up that we're not able to contribute to, or, worse, that things come up that we can't contribute to but wish we could (I'm looking at you, one-note people! ).

I would suggest someone in the Seattle area "volunteering" to be the recipient of the socks, then deliver them, but that's a lot to put on any one person, where a delivery person is just following instructions. (though you'd be surprised the places I've gotten into with nothing more than a clipboard and the appearance that I knew what I was doing) I think you've gotten enough people on board. All I was saying was that a lot of the hammering out was kinda spread out and just needed to be consolidated so the people who are being pointed this way from other threads have it all in the OP, so to speak.

(And, what prompted my other post, since you didn't ask was me telling someone to go sit in the corner until they were ready to play nice with others. I took my own advice.)

[dwturducken]

Or how about Snickers bars? "Not going anywhere for a while?"

Can this be spun, somehow, to imply we're not going anywhere for a while? Maybe empty Snickers wrappers?  That may be too esoteric...

[Sleepy Wonder]

I'm sure there will be a wholesaler somewhere out there who wouldn't mind the income, especially in today's economy. I do like your idea since it gives us a 100% guarantee that the boxes are being shipped as to our specifications.

But then, the person would need to live near the wholesaler to cut down shipping costs, as in this scenario, we pay the wholesaler to ship to an address in the US then that person pays again to ship to Korea. They would also need a lot of lawn space and possibly a rental truck to haul the goods to a fed ex/ups shipping center.

I'm kind of on the fence about the wholesaler I contacted for a few reasons.

[Segev]

Quick note on location: We're shipping these to the Korean HQ, not the Seattle one, right?

[Nafaustu]

First I want to say I like the idea of sending useful things, but I do have a concern. 

From what i've been able to gather, the purpose of this is to draw media attention.   Since the ballon over the border method of shipping is probably not a highly publicised thing, it may not garner the publicity we're looking for.   It would probably garner word of mouth, which is sometimes more valuable.   If they donated them directly to charity, that would probably get media attention.   I'd like to think they wouldn't pass them out as a bonus or set them on fire, but they do have a prechant for burning down useful things.

I would still support this, I just haven't seen anyone else mention these contextual things and it might be something to keep in mind.

[dwturducken]

Right now, all were getting is word of mouth, outside some very nicely done pieces on gamer websites and some blogs. (iReport has gotten a lot of views, but hasn't made it to the mainstream, yet; in light of the last release from NC, I almost don't expect it to) Enough word of mouth, and someone will take notice in the mainstream. The idea is to keep the word of mouth going.

Just my 2p.

[Sleepy Wonder]

First I want to say I like the idea of sending useful things, but I do have a concern. 

From what i've been able to gather, the purpose of this is to draw media attention.   Since the ballon over the border method of shipping is probably not a highly publicised thing, it may not garner the publicity we're looking for.   It would probably garner word of mouth, which is sometimes more valuable.   If they donated them directly to charity, that would probably get media attention.   I'd like to think they wouldn't pass them out as a bonus or set them on fire, but they do have a prechant for burning down useful things.

I would still support this, I just haven't seen anyone else mention these contextual things and it might be something to keep in mind.

See:

.... items, which will in turn possibly garner national media attention in the US and Korea, but that is not our primary purpose.

Pg. 2, Post #6

The purpose of this as mentioned several times is not for media attention. It just so happens to be a side effect we could take advantage of. The aim of this is to touch the human side of those who actually have any power to change their minds about the decision that they have exhausted all options.

Quick note on location: We're shipping these to the Korean HQ, not the Seattle one, right?

Not sure if serious... 2 posts above you should answer it, as should every other comment I've made in this thread. Not to sound snarky if you are being serious, but repeatedly having to re-answer the same questions is not something I'm going to be doing anymore. If you are interested enough I expect people will read through or at least skim.

[Segev]

That's just it. I DID read through it...and then saw somebody talking about sending to Seattle offices...after having read conversations about doing the "socks" thing in part because foodstuffs sent overseas would have been a customs nightmare. So I was firmly under the impression we were shipping it to Korea.

The post wherein I asked the question was in response to:

I would suggest someone in the Seattle area "volunteering" to be the recipient of the socks, then deliver them

I didn't want to make a categorical declaration that he was mistaken, as I could have been mistaken, instead, but I wanted to draw attention to it just to make sure we were all on the same page.

[no hero]

I'm extremely interested in donating to this project, especially if it is one huge bulk order. Sleepy said it him self, IMPACT! You cannot hide, discard, or otherwise ignore something of that magnitude. It would bring attention to NCsoft's Korean doorstep which in turn makes #SaveCoH relevant topic in Korea's backyard.

I mailed my mask, cape, and letter, signed, forwarded, and re-forwarded the petition, stand in AP33 with torch in hand everyday and night, signed up for the Extra Life 24-hour gaming marathon, all of which are small efforts of an individual. I will keep doing this, but feel this energy is somewhat scattered, which is not necessary a problem. However, as stated in prior posts, every once in a while we need to focus our "attacks" to leave a serious IMPACT! (See, I quoted Sleepy again and where did your eyes focus?) 

Is this "Possible Call To Action" currently at a stand still due to internal disagreements, or is the research continuing to secure funds, flyers, and a merchant? 

[Segev]

I'm not sure what the status on this is, sadly. I hope we can make a move forward on it so we know both how we want to present it to the public and whether it is to be discussed on Oct. 20 to any media people who are attending; this isn't a media attention-grab, but a people-move to try and let NCSoft Korea know the verve and seriousness of things, so I don't want to make it crass. At the same time, I do want to support it however I can.

Sleepy, if you've got any further news, let us know, please! What is the current status, the next milestone, or the current hold-up? Are we moving towards the next milestone or are we waiting on something?

Thanks!

[Ironwolf]

Personally - I plan on shipping a couple of hundred socks to Nexon and NCSoft.

Will be doing that this weekend.

[Segev]

Great! Were you the one with the wholesaler contact?

[jeangray]

I'm extremely interested in donating to this project, especially if it is one huge bulk order. Sleepy said it him self, IMPACT! You cannot hide, discard, or otherwise ignore something of that magnitude. It would bring attention to NCsoft's Korean doorstep which in turn makes #SaveCoH relevant topic in Korea's backyard.

I mailed my mask, cape, and letter, signed, forwarded, and re-forwarded the petition, stand in AP33 with torch in hand everyday and night, signed up for the Extra Life 24-hour gaming marathon, all of which are small efforts of an individual. I will keep doing this, but feel this energy is somewhat scattered, which is not necessary a problem. However, as stated in prior posts, every once in a while we need to focus our "attacks" to leave a serious IMPACT! (See, I quoted Sleepy again and where did your eyes focus?) 

Is this "Possible Call To Action" currently at a stand still due to internal disagreements, or is the research continuing to secure funds, flyers, and a merchant? 

I'm more or less of the same opinion as no hero....where are we standing on this?  I'm assuming it's still hung up on where/how to gather money.  Still think this is a great idea if it can get up and running!

[Ironwolf]

Rather than wait - I will start the ball off and send some to them personally and then donate as well.

More is well.....more.

[Sleepy Wonder]

I have chosen to go with indiegogo.com. I have set up the account there and we are good to go once I go to my bank and set up a new account to receive the funds.

They wont let me put it live right now until the paypal receiving account is "verified" which means in the paypal account for this campaign it has to be linked to a bank account, and I'd rather not have it as my personal one.

I don't know how long this will take, maybe a couple days. It's 10pm here and my bank is obviously closed at the moment I'm writing this.

The good news is that the % they take is 7% (4% for indegogo and 3% for paypal processing). We're looking at $93,000.

Also, if we do not reach our goal, all funds will be returned to everyone and they wont take any fees.. the 4% that is.

The problem is if we fail, I believe, I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure we won't get back the "3rd party processing fees" which is 3%. So we kind of need to not fail.

As far as refunds go I don't know if for each refund they return every individual donation less 3% of it, or if the campaign owner is footed the bill. I'll try and answer this for you unless someone else wants to go ahead and submit a support ticket on indegoo.com to get a hard answer for the rest of us.

[no hero]

Rather than wait - I will start the ball off and send some to them personally and then donate as well.

More is well.....more.

Please feel free to do so, but I believe it would defeat the purpose of this "Possible" Call to Action. The idea is that the package arrives in one large delivery. To send yours outside of the bulk order would work against the surprise of ours.

[Sleepy Wonder]

Please feel free to do so, but I believe it would defeat the purpose of this "Possible" Call to Action. The idea is that the package arrives in one large delivery. To send yours outside of the bulk order would work against the surprise of ours.

I mention this a few times, but you are correct.

As soon as the donation goes live I will create a more refined thread and suggest this one be locked.

Additionally I will be purchasing a PO box to solve the letter/item problem. Just no oversized stuff here. I'd like to keep it to a minimum (letters, small things, masks, pictures of your hero in action, etc).

When the time comes to direct people to mail those things I will probably give the option of emailing me a scanned letter, a typed letter in word, or something that I can print out on my end, so long as it at least has a signature.

Any ideas for a campaign name for the mailing address? I was thinking:

City of Heroes NUTS! Campaign
P.O. Box 00000
City, State 12345

[Segev]

Wouldn't "SOCKS" be more appropriate than "NUTS" at this stage?

Or even go for a painful pun: "City of Heroes' closure SOCKS campaign?"

[Ironwolf]

Not to rain on your parade, we have lurkers on this board. They know what you know in this thread.

There isn't going to be a surprise.

If their PR department is worth anything they know exactly where all the pressure is coming from and they follow these threads. I know you believe one huge package is somehow better than a flood of smaller ones but while I disagree with that thought I will still donate to the main fund.

I think hitting as many shareholders as possible with smaller packages would do more than one huge bundle to the main office. The huge bundle will arrive on the back shipping dock and the local manager will accept it or since there is no surprise since the PR folks let them know its coming, refuses delivery. If he accepts it the HR people step in spin it and in tomorrows local paper there is a blurb - NCSoft donates a ton of new clothing to the poor.

I work for a huge company and that is how they roll.

I will as I said donate but I personally think you lose the impact of one huge shipment instead of 5,000 small ones that arrive every day for 2 weeks.

[Sleepy Wonder]

Not to rain on your parade, we have lurkers on this board. They know what you know in this thread.

There isn't going to be a surprise.

If their PR department is worth anything they know exactly where all the pressure is coming from and they follow these threads. I know you believe one huge package is somehow better than a flood of smaller ones but while I disagree with that thought I will still donate to the main fund.

I think hitting as many shareholders as possible with smaller packages would do more than one huge bundle to the main office. The huge bundle will arrive on the back shipping dock and the local manager will accept it or since there is no surprise since the PR folks let them know its coming, refuses delivery. If he accepts it the HR people step in spin it and in tomorrows local paper there is a blurb - NCSoft donates a ton of new clothing to the poor.

I work for a huge company and that is how they roll.

I will as I said donate but I personally think you lose the impact of one huge shipment instead of 5,000 small ones that arrive every day for 2 weeks.

And you don't think CBS knew about the impending peanuts? That campaign was carried out over CBS's own message board for the show. I could care less who is lurking on these boards, and if someone from NCSoft is, they're probably laughing their asses off.

I never expected this to be a surprise, and I thought about that before I even submitted the original post here. I also thought about a refusal of shipment. NCSoft would have to foot the bill to return it, and it would be much more simpler to call up a local charity for them to pick it up off their hands for free.

Thirdly, any corporation that would blatantly lie about the source of a donation is just asking for trouble. The potential backlash over such a lie concerning a charitable contribution would do their company more harm than it would be worth to try and lie about.

Now about shareholders, how do you propose we get the mailing address of hundreds of people who own stock in the company? When you figure that out, I'd be more than happy to start up a campaign directed at them.

As for individual shipments v.s. large shipments, neither is without pro's and cons.

But you saw where the mask campaign got us. It got us a [Placate].

NCSoft West called up the mothership, and the mothership pretty much gave them a stern look. It was never really NCSoft West's decision to shut down City of Heroes, even if ultimately someone there was responsible, but we'll never know for sure who the deciding individual was or where he was or what position he was in to make it should there have been alternatives.

This campaign is directly aimed at someone with at least some string pulling who can be hit in his own back yard - even if only for a moment.

As much of an alternate form of impact clogging their mail system would be with individual packages, I feel it has to be stated again that doing so in this particular case, with this particular campaign, we would not achieve a potential media opportunity as a side effect, as again, we would never know the true impact of our collective efforts.

I appreciate your disagreement and support for this, and I'm not trying to be snarky or habitually in disagreement with everything anyone says about this campaign, but I am just trying to keep it balanced and simple.

I have to think of all sorts of things like the % of people who would actually get off their butts to go to the post office, etc. I guess that makes me a realist, but think about it, do you not think we could get more bang for our efforts if we catered to a wider audience?

There are people who would like to see CoH saved but don't care ENOUGH to say, go to the post office and write a letter, or heck, even an email. But they'll take the time to sign a petition, or donate $5 to something worthwhile. But anything else? Yeah, those are the fringe players. They're the gamers that can shrug their shoulders and just move onto the next game because they arn't as invested. There's nothing wrong with them, but we could use every ounce of support we can get if we're shooting for $100,000 here.

[dwturducken]

Actually, I believe the major shareholders were listed, possibly even shown in a pie chart, in one of the earnings statements that I suddenly can't find the thread for.  I'll dig it up and edit it in.

Also, I believe this lists the smaller shareholders, but I'm not sure I'm reading it right.