Author Topic: Korean Kibun  (Read 61759 times)

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2012, 05:24:58 AM »
....
 :'(

Thank you.

<hug>

Same here, but it's grief and not anger.  I can't even say the word "game" without breaking into tears.  Larry is terribly distressed on my behalf. 
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

DrakeGrimm

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2012, 05:29:45 AM »
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

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Terwyn

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2012, 05:30:27 AM »
<hug>

Same here, but it's grief and not anger.  I can't even say the word "game" without breaking into tears.  Larry is terribly distressed on my behalf.

I can imagine. Humans have a tendency to reflect the emotional state of those whom they have the closest bond.

I suspect that the only reason why there is no outward expression of anguish that my family can detect is because my twin brother (Mentalshock) and I frequently discuss current matters. He does well to defuse the more volatile aspects of my mind.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
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Teege

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2012, 05:39:53 AM »
...I am an idiot child, scribbling in the dirt.

* DrakeGrimm stands in awe

...it is always. Always. A treat to watch one of the master wordsmiths forge a blade of script and prose. Thank you for sharing this.

Isn't it?
Keep fighting the good fight!

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Victoria Victrix

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2012, 05:48:04 AM »
Aside from Confucianism, a major religious form in Korea is shamanism, and I was going for the rhythm and flavor of a shamanic chant, since I have more experience with that than Confucianism.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Terwyn

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2012, 05:49:55 AM »
Aside from Confucianism, a major religious form in Korea is shamanism, and I was going for the rhythm and flavor of a shamanic chant, since I have more experience with that than Confucianism.

There's a reason why a modern linguistic debate is whether or not human musical ability pre-dates human language. You've definitely hit upon something instinctual here.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
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Quinch

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2012, 06:22:29 AM »
Aside from Confucianism, a major religious form in Korea is shamanism, and I was going for the rhythm and flavor of a shamanic chant, since I have more experience with that than Confucianism.

Hey Victoria, can you check your PMs when you get the chance?

Mentalshock

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2012, 06:23:14 AM »
I can imagine. Humans have a tendency to reflect the emotional state of those whom they have the closest bond.

I suspect that the only reason why there is no outward expression of anguish that my family can detect is because my twin brother (Mentalshock) and I frequently discuss current matters. He does well to defuse the more volatile aspects of my mind.

As much as I do for you, you also do for me.   It's just that my volatile aspects are far more tightly contained.

Mister Bison

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2012, 06:37:30 AM »
Yeeessss....

Zolgar

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2012, 06:54:38 AM »
This is one great letter if I can recognize one, but even with as much respect I have, I'm concerned about the last paragraph.

Your letter risk being balled back because you only propose selling the game, where a lot more opportunities may exist. In fact, it's much more reasonable to think that all it could take to restore their Kibun, is to enter an open discussion, if not negitiation, with us that got hurt by their acts. The best we wish is this discussion to end with the IP sold to other hands, but if there is truly problems for them to sell the IP, stating their reasons is good enough. Coming open will "save face", whereas right now their obscurantism is hurting them more in our fan-publisher relation.

And a last far-fetched idea is to have Cryptic back up your letter as an "introduction" from a third person. It's also the last entity I think that may be needed to negotiate the IP/license, since NCSoft has acquired it from them.

Bison makes an excellent point here..

Otherwise, I share Grimm's sentiment. The pen truly is mightier than the sword, and it is a craft you have done an exceptional job honing over your years.

MishaFox

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2012, 07:56:16 AM »
I am really seriously tired of the stupid, badly bungled and rude handling by NCSoft. It all reeks of inept leadership and almost amateurish  thinking. The problem I see is that something is seriously wrong at NCSoft.

 How hard is it to understand GAME MAKING MONEY - KEEP GAME GOING and MAKE MONEY.

It's late and I'm preaching. Time for bed.

Epelesker

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2012, 08:03:14 AM »
VV, I swear that if I hadn't already recovered from crying once today, I would have after reading that letter.

I'm going to agree on Bison's point as well, though. Encourage them to reapproach the table but don't explicitly aim for selling the game. Yet.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2012, 09:41:57 AM »
This is why I post and ask for the opinions of those of you that understand kibun better than I do.

I'll revise it to say something about coming back to the negotiating table to "give us the chance for our village to be saved."

« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 10:26:24 AM by Victoria Victrix »
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2012, 10:49:50 AM »
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Vulpy

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2012, 11:24:45 AM »
Revised text:

From my incredibly limited experience, this may hit on some cultural expectations--I believe that being able to properly produce poetry was considered a mark of high social standing at some points in Korean history. I'm no expert on Korean poetry, though, so I'm not sure what makes a poem "good" to a Korean ear. That said, I could produce some references if more research was desired.
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QuantumHero

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2012, 02:16:11 PM »
VV,

That was a very powerful letter...studying comparative mythology has given me insight into what shapes many cultures, unfortunately when it comes to Korea I am still a child with barely open eyes....but a seeker of knowledge.  The only thing I can do is ask the uncomfortable questions that have to be asked :(

1. Is the admission of being childless helpful?  There are some cultures in which this would exponentially reduce your status.  There are some where an older woman without children well the thought of even finishing this sentance sickens me.  Is this true of Korea?

|2. Elder are honored in most of Asia to my knowledge, do we actually know this to hold true in Korea

3. Damaged children um, I hate even asking this, but do they find the damaged worthy of preservation?  <shudder>.

4.  Being female is there anything specific in the roles of women that could trip the efforts of women up in interacting with them?  Are women honored? Seen as Equals?

5. Bison may have a point on needing an introduction.

I don't like asking these questions...but the answers are important.

Please don't hate me for asking these questions.

If given two roads that lead no where good...stop using roads and carve your own path.

StarRanger4

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2012, 05:22:17 PM »
Nice research.  I think a helpful phrase you might want to look up in addition is 체면 (pronounced cheh myun), as it is the Korean concept for face or more pertinently saving face.

Thanks for kicking ass in the research StarRanger.

-Opti

It looks like its actually spelled Chea Myun, and I'll be starting to work that research later today.  Right now I have to take care of RL comittments to maintain family Kibun and the like. (its also why I've been seemingly missing the last few days)

DrakeGrimm

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2012, 09:13:16 PM »
VV,

That was a very powerful letter...studying comparative mythology has given me insight into what shapes many cultures, unfortunately when it comes to Korea I am still a child with barely open eyes....but a seeker of knowledge.  The only thing I can do is ask the uncomfortable questions that have to be asked :(

1. Is the admission of being childless helpful?  There are some cultures in which this would exponentially reduce your status.  There are some where an older woman without children well the thought of even finishing this sentance sickens me.  Is this true of Korea?

|2. Elder are honored in most of Asia to my knowledge, do we actually know this to hold true in Korea

3. Damaged children um, I hate even asking this, but do they find the damaged worthy of preservation?  <shudder>.

4.  Being female is there anything specific in the roles of women that could trip the efforts of women up in interacting with them?  Are women honored? Seen as Equals?

5. Bison may have a point on needing an introduction.

I don't like asking these questions...but the answers are important.

Please don't hate me for asking these questions.

Anybody who gives you grief for asking these questions can answer to me. We need to be able to ask the hard questions to each other, or we'll never get anything done. Each of these is a valid cultural question, one I think our research team needs to get on.
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

Mister Bison

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2012, 10:26:00 PM »
I actually only read and processed what StarRanger dug up. Fortunately it seems I got it right the first time, but blame it on luck, on the Chaos that made us all different. Things come immediately for some where it could get very long for others because they understood the opposite, because they "draw" on the random numbers was a fitting one or the opposite.

I'm into learning algorithms, especially "stochastic" ones, so I may be more willing to see humanity as a huge brute-force algorithm :P
Yeeessss....

Segev

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2012, 11:17:46 PM »
I'm into learning algorithms, especially "stochastic" ones, so I may be more willing to see humanity as a huge brute-force algorithm :P
No, we're more of a hybrid Genetic Algorithm and Particle Swarm Optimization.