Author Topic: Korean Kibun  (Read 60891 times)

Segev

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2012, 02:58:12 AM »
My brain got lost on the wall of text, but this came to mind:
"That was a waste of a perfectly good explaination."

Code for:
"Shut up and tell us what to do!"
:-p
At the risk of sounding arrogant, I suggest looking at my posts in response to this thread early on. I have not outlined a SPECIFIC course of action, but I did try to interpret the information into a general idea of how to frame our actions. It might give you some ideas. (I hope!)

darkquill

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2012, 07:02:59 AM »

Epelesker

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2012, 07:34:50 AM »
Very enlightening read on the OP, sir. (Though I admit that I originally thought "kibun [気分] is a Japanese word! How does this--" You think that all the Gangnam Style I've been watching would let me know better.)

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2012, 08:21:00 AM »
Except of course Anarcho-syndicalism with Tim the Enchanter since he obviously represents the "violence inherent in the system" with his threatening explosive gestures.

... it was the RABBIT! I didn't do anything!

DrakeGrimm

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2012, 08:41:48 AM »
... it was the RABBIT! I didn't do anything!

Yeah right, buddy. Come on, let's go. That's for a jury of your peers to decide, mister.

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Vulpy

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2012, 11:18:30 AM »
Following StarRanger's lead, I found some more interesting info (on some of the same sites).

Here's one about Kibun and giving gifts in business settings:
http://www.korea4expats.com/article-gifts-in-business.html
Interpreting our sending masks and capes, our buying the devs dinner, etc, and then their note of thanks in response through this lens may be useful.

That is interesting. Should I ever have cause to visit Korea, I should probably bring some bottles of Jack Daniels. It's sad that the biggest brand names native to my region are whiskey and Mountain Dew.
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Segev

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2012, 02:28:01 PM »
The very end of the "contracts" article is interesting.

Do we have any MIT attendees or grads on this board? The CEO's wife (and, I believe, CEO herself of NCWest) is an alumnus, and the special relationship between those who share a school may be quite useful here.

QuantumHero

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2012, 03:54:46 PM »
Thank every single one of you for these resources...facinating reading it really is.  The beginning glimmers of understanding have tempered my rage but not my frustration...and yet they have also renewed hope for a solution that is heroic.

Here are my questions.

Kibun is face, it is similar to honor but not the same.  Right?  It is also the mantaining of harmony.

The other word, Nunchi is to see, to perceive..correct?

So how would a South Korean react to causing massive loss of face to another through unknowingly "closed eyes" what is the remedy for massive loss of harmony through ignorance in their eyes.

Is the admission of previously closed eyes and willingness to partake in mutual healing a real tactic?

By their actions, in having closed eyes to the nunchi of the west they have stripped Kibun from themselves and all of us.  I game company that says games and their communities are without face or value is not a company that should be making games at all.

But the other option is closed eyes that have led to terrible lack of harmony for all and the chance to make a tre gesture of understandin and apology...Ignorance can be forgiven deliberate insult is much more difficult.

Did that make sense?
If given two roads that lead no where good...stop using roads and carve your own path.

Atlantea

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2012, 05:12:58 PM »
Made sense to me.

Teege

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2012, 05:29:10 PM »

* DrakeGrimm holds up cuffs

No comment.  8)

But back on track. Very interesting read! Thanks for that information.
Keep fighting the good fight!

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Knightward

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2012, 08:16:02 PM »
I was able to follow it, Quantum.  And I think the answer is, "Depends on how well they cope with shame/embarrassment," which isn't much of an answer.  But I also haven't been doing all the research here.

Mister Bison

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2012, 08:38:55 PM »
Yeah right, buddy. Come on, let's go. That's for a jury of your peers to decide, mister.

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Victoria Victrix

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2012, 12:43:55 AM »
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

JWBullfrog

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2012, 01:05:13 AM »
Wow. Never tick off a writer. If anyone can pull that off, you can.
 
oh and FPAVV (if that counts here)
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Segev

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2012, 02:48:13 AM »
That is powerful, polite, and yet shows the "fit of anger to regain kibun" that sounds like it's acceptable according to the OP and related articles. It also is deeply shaming, coming from an "old woman." (Characterizing it that way makes you both vulnerable and yet venerable-and-wise.)

I have not shown the best of judgment in some of the things I've suggested or thought were clever in the last couple of days, so I want to take a bit of time to think on it, but I think it's a good move. I also think that getting a strong, solid hint in there or via some other avenue that this will get wide public release should CoH/V actually finally close down would be utterly terrifying to the CEO of NCSoft. I think, based on my extremely limited knowledge of kibun and asian culture and PR in general, that you've found a masterful way of hitting them with a shame that could force the directorship of NCSoft to retire if it became public.

What I write here is a probably poor suggestion, but perhaps some variant on: "Because of the gravity of this to me and those I have named whose sorrows lay at your feet, it is imperative upon my own honor that I be certain you have seen and understood it. No private response will be sufficient; I cannot be sure it is you who have sent it. Therefore, should no action be taken to restore the harmony you are casting to the ground to splinter into ten thousand irretrievable shards, I will make this plea in a public reading of this letter on channels and venues I know you will be unable to miss."

That's clumsy and too openly threatening, I think, but if that can be reworked to fit the rest of the letter's tone and be a little more subtle (so nobody can point to it and scream "extortion!"), I think that we should try to get the sentiment in there.

Atlantea

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2012, 04:57:15 AM »
Hm...  To this jaded cynical western ear, that sounds like "laying it on a bit thick".   

BUT...

You're not sending it to someone with a western ear. From what I've read on the kibun thread and related articles, I think this may be just right. Especially assuming it would be translated to Korean.

(For a comparative example - A lot of Asian emotional drama looks "caricatured" or "over the top" to Western eyes and ears It's why dramatic anime and Hong Kong Martial arts movies are still an "acquired taste" to many people. Although Asian comedy often translates quite well since slapstick is a common thing to both sets of cultures.)

I could be wrong though. Is anyone with a better "ear" for the kibun also thinking this looks good? I'm certainly no expert from reading what little has been posted here etc.

(And for what it's worth, VV - I have trouble thinking of you as "old". Blame those glamour shots of you they used for the hardcovers of your books. :)  )

« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 05:03:11 AM by Atlantea »

Terwyn

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2012, 04:59:55 AM »
Something else to consider mentioning is that this course of action is taking away the voices of many.

I have found it increasingly difficult to freely interact with people outside of my family in a direct fashion. I have not spoken a word to anyone I am not related to in the past three days, simply because I am no longer sure I can trust my own voice in regards to keeping the sense of betrayal from influencing my tone of voice and word choice.

I do not think I need to explain why it is important for one to keep one's voice from appearing aggressive and confrontational when there is no reason for such a tone to be taken with the person one is speaking with. It is really difficult for me to keep emotional control from bleeding into my voice when the feeling is of such intensity.
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Segev

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2012, 05:04:34 AM »
Something else to consider mentioning is that this course of action is taking away the voices of many.

I have found it increasingly difficult to freely interact with people outside of my family in a direct fashion. I have not spoken a word to anyone I am not related to in the past three days, simply because I am no longer sure I can trust my own voice in regards to keeping the sense of betrayal from influencing my tone of voice and word choice.

I do not think I need to explain why it is important for one to keep one's voice from appearing aggressive and confrontational when there is no reason for such a tone to be taken with the person one is speaking with. It is really difficult for me to keep emotional control from bleeding into my voice when the feeling is of such intensity.
This is, from a western standpoint, a bit troubling, and I feel for your pain in this matter, Terwyn. If there's anything we can do as friends and fellow forumites, please let us know here or even in a pm.

From a Kibun standpoint, this seems the essence of just how badly they've damaged the Kibun of their customers and how their Nunchi is either utterly failed or they are deliberately scorning it. There is something in this we can use, much as I loathe the situation that makes it exist at all.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2012, 05:13:36 AM »
Added:

"There are people who are so burdened with sorrow, so burdened with anger over your actions, that they no longer dare to speak to others for fear their anger will overflow on those who do not deserve it.  You have stolen their voices, and you have closed your eyes to this.  I lay this at your feet."
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Terwyn

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Re: Korean Kibun
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2012, 05:15:06 AM »
....
 :'(

Thank you.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
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