Author Topic: Don't give up on this yet = it's not time to get out of the Bunkers yet! (Read 9831 times)

Rae · « **Reply #1 on:** September 24, 2012, 04:11:30 PM »

I needed this today. Thanks, Bryan

B_L_Angel · « **Reply #2 on:** September 24, 2012, 04:17:43 PM »

We have the personal and emotional investment down pat What we need is leverage, someway to make our concerns NCsoft's.

The-Hunter-JLJ · « **Reply #3 on:** September 24, 2012, 04:41:54 PM »

Figure it this way, BLA. They've been approached not once but a couple of times by a NYT best selling author. Lots of big names in the internet blogosphere and twitocracy have picked up the cause. CNN has picked up the story on their online site at least. We show little sign of going away, though sadly I think the login numbers in game are starting to drop. TonyV has made 'em blink on the subject of email access, and I rather suspect their policy on refunds was a lot more reasonable than they originally intended as an effort to appease the anger.

We got their attention. Now we just have to hang in there and show 'em we ain't going away. Guarantee they are checking out this forum and anywhere else they think we may be gathering. (waves to the nice corporate types) So keep your spirits up, and keep yer eye on the prize. This ain't a sprint, it's a marathon, and it may well run way past the servers going dark if it comes to that.

Gilliam · « **Reply #4 on:** September 24, 2012, 05:23:18 PM »

I'm finding it so hard to Log into coh, but i understand what needs to be done.i will spend more time in coh

Segev · « **Reply #5 on:** September 24, 2012, 05:55:54 PM »

If absolutely nothing else, I want to thank the OP for introducing me to the concept of "Gladwell's 'Connectors'." I know I am not very sociable. I am working to change that, but it's not easy. Because honestly? Connectors -do- get things done.

jeangray · « **Reply #6 on:** September 24, 2012, 06:59:28 PM »

That is a great read, thanks for posting it!

StarRanger4 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 24, 2012, 07:55:09 PM »

hang on... For some reason I'm thinking that at least one point NC Soft had these guys working for or advising them. Or someone who's name was similar and I've corrupted my memory indix.

SO, with the caveat of I might be wrong... if this IS company they hired to help strategizse, whatever... WHY ARNT THEY LISTENING? Cause unless I am wrong it seems like they are ignoring the advise of the persons they should be listening too.

Rather like hiring a guide to take you big game hunting and then ignoring the safety rules he gives you to keep you alive.

DrakeGrimm · « **Reply #8 on:** September 24, 2012, 07:56:59 PM »

Dig in, boys and gals. Siege mode is far from over, and I ain't about to wave no white flags.

QuantumHero · « **Reply #9 on:** September 24, 2012, 08:00:58 PM »

This was a wonderful and educational read...personally I'm more the inpiration vender at the local hospital for connectors..free greens, blues, and purples available to all....and I also have a less advertised supply of yellows, reds and inventions waiting. Psst combine three of anything to make a rez.

Aggelakis · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2012, 08:41:21 PM »

Quote from: StarRanger4 on September 24, 2012, 07:55:09 PM

hang on... For some reason I'm thinking that at least one point NC Soft had these guys working for or advising them. Or someone who's name was similar and I've corrupted my memory indix.

SO, with the caveat of I might be wrong... if this IS company they hired to help strategizse, whatever... WHY ARNT THEY LISTENING? Cause unless I am wrong it seems like they are ignoring the advise of the persons they should be listening too.

Rather like hiring a guide to take you big game hunting and then ignoring the safety rules he gives you to keep you alive.

H+K was hired to do the massive marketing push surrounding Guild Wars 2. NC subsequently hired them as their general marketing 'people' soon before GW went live and City got booted. The likelihood that they had any input at all to City's closure is pretty low. In all honesty, the decision was probably made months ago and it took until Aug 31 to get through the hoops and red tape.

Medika · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24, 2012, 09:17:51 PM »

The chief point is to make NCSoft understand what they are giving up by closing CoH.
The way to do that is: (1) to boycott other NCSoft products, (2) tell your friends not to play GW or any other NCSoft product - 'cause what's happening to us could happen to them, and (3) tell NCSoft that is what we're doing. A bonus (4) would be to play CoH lots these last months AND get new players to play it. It would be amazing if the numbers CoH sports upon closing exceeded the numbers it had before the announcement. If NCSoft is really intent on redefining their focus - that is, if they want to emphasize their Asian market at the expense of their American market - we should work at slamming the door behind them and making them know that is what we've done.

Victoria Victrix · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2012, 11:14:39 PM »

Bryan thank you for posting this.

This is excellent strategy for us.

We need, I think to refine our focus to this:

NCSoft must release the IP to someone else who will support it, and (ideally) support the transition to the new owner. We must make it clear to them that if they do not do this, they will never be able to come out of the bunker, and the wave of negativity we are going to generate is going to persist to taint all their products.

I know that if there is no good resolution to this, I have every intention of putting a permanent "why would ANYONE buy an NCSoft product" section on my webpage. Anyone that searches on me is going to find and see that, and the effect will permeate far beyond gamers.

Are you listening, Hill+Knowles?

Luna Eclypse · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2012, 11:30:38 PM »

My Morale has never waned. My stance on NCsoft as a consumer and slighted customer is as follows and this is as civil as I can be:

Regardless if they try to save face and sell the IP to an interested party, my negative view of them will not change. A single person CAN make a difference, ANY one of us. I will NOT buy any future NCsoft products, something I am fully committed to because one of the best ways to make a company listen is with your bank account. Their ineptitude at conducting business in the Western Market has struck a nerve with all of us for years and this horrible mishandling of City of Heroes and it's developers is the straw that broke the camel's back.

And if their PR people do indeed read over these forums then I hope they hear this: You reputation was already in the dumps for past transgressions and other over-budget, underachieving MMO IP's that you abruptly shut down. I will tell anyone and everyone I know that expresses interest in your products how quick you are to resort to bait & switch tactics the minute your micromanaged, out-of-touch plans start to disintegrate. You, a South Korean publisher, abruptly laid off 80+ good, hard-working Americans IN THIS COUNTRY who were working on a profitable, self-sustaining IP just because they didn't fit into your Masterplan. You, in turn, earned the scorn and outrage of said IP's extremely loyal and proactive community numbering in the tens of thousands. Your unwillingness to also understand the archetype of the American Superhero and the virtues and morals it instills in our culture is what empowers us to fight for what we hold dear. It's more than a game, it's a living, breathing community; A community that your actions have threatened to tear apart but have only made stronger. To be clear we don't WANT you reverse your decision and keep our game running, you don't want it anyway. We want you to sell it for one more financial gain to a studio that actually CARES about it and us. And if your internal realignment means you will cease major operations in our market, so much the better. If you're unwilling to adapt to foreign markets, stick to what you know and spare us anymore deception and headache.

Colette · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2012, 01:59:19 AM »

We have been, by and large courteous and restrained. We have held the reins tight. This was wise.

Is it time to start attacking? I mean... really start bad-mouthing NC-Soft as killjoys and greedy stuffed suits who only want to exploit their customers? I personally would eagerly vent my spleen, oh mercy yes! But if we do so collectively, we could seriously damage their reputation in the west and in Korea. They would be very angry and it would poison their opinion of City of Heroes. It could drive down their stock, it might even put a lot of innocent people out of work.

It might also give other companies pause before doing something similar.

I do not have the perspective to advise or discourage this. I leave it up to Tony, V.V. and the other strategists.

If they do decide the time's right to throw the excrement into the fan, we'll need a platform to be heard from, and ideally a Korean-translation version of our tirades.

Vulpy · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2012, 02:25:42 AM »

The difficulty comes from where it's easy. To wit, it's easy to go from "persuasion" to "intimidation," but almost impossible to go back. If we go on the offensive, we need to be sure--it'll be a Rubicon moment.

Heavy Ion · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2012, 02:36:27 AM »

While negotiations are ongoing, we should be restrained and respectful. If they refuse to sell the IP, then it will move on to the next stage. No company wants (former) customer grievances aired repeatedly in public, and this community has the kind of impassioned people who would be determined enough to raise the money for a real media battle. Newspapers may be old media, but they still carry the weight of authority that a blog or tweet won't (not that those aren't extremely beneficial too - it's just a quality over quantity thing when you're talking about the old guard in the business world). A few well-placed ads in some prominent publications could be seen as a liability to NCsoft's future business dealings.

A business decision is a business decision, and we won't change anyone's mind in the money arena, regardless of the fact that COH was profitable. But a refusal to sell the IP would seem unnecessarily mean-spirited and financially...dumb. We'd really have the underdog element at that point, but we'd need to commit ourselves to keeping the pressure on so they understand we aren't going away, that we intend to dig in for a seige, and they'd better get extra comfy in that bunker.

Again, I don't think we're at that point quite yet, but I feel confident we could make it happen if the worst comes to pass. As with all things in this campaign, I look to TonyV to tell us when that time is here. Until then, I trust the leadership. The last thing we want to do is make it harder for our advocates. Sometimes diplomacy is a very delicate thing that takes time. And when our diplomat tells us all options are exhausted, we'll take it to the next level. To paraphrase what Vulpy said, we have to know when it is time to walk across this bridge because we probably won't be able to go back. When they set the bridge on fire is another thing altogether though...

Golden Girl · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2012, 03:30:18 AM »

I think that the amount of covereage that we've been getting, plus the way we're still making a noise, could help to show them that theor CoH "problem" won't just go away, even after the planned shutdown sate.

Segev · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2012, 03:59:51 AM »

Remember that, when one has nothing to lose, one has no reason to do anything for those who have taken all you could have kept or gained.

One must always have a carrot with the stick.

emu265 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:01:55 AM »

What this says to me is that they are going to try and wear us out. We can't let that happen.

Victoria Victrix · « **Reply #20 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:51:08 AM »

Quote from: emu265 on September 25, 2012, 04:01:55 AM

What this says to me is that they are going to try and wear us out. We can't let that happen.

QFT

DrakeGrimm · « **Reply #21 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:52:40 AM »

We'll just have to keep at it and make sure they realize we can't be ignored. I refer to this period as "Siege Mode," and I mean that in every sense of the word. Most sieges that fail, fail because the siegers quit and went home. I'm not about to do that.

Segev · « **Reply #22 on:** September 25, 2012, 05:02:29 AM »

Mainly, remember that this is going to be difficult not merely because we must keep up the effort, but because we must be offering the hand of friendship, if they but will reach back out to grasp it, while we continue to keep up pressure. Because the only way this works out to our satisfaction is by convincing them that working with us (or at least, towards our desired ends) is the best path for them. If we ever let it become a pure enmity, there will be no reason for NCSoft not to take a hard line purely to spite us. Let alone to do so out of a combination of spite, resignation, and a determination that their original plans are the easiest.

Heat Guard · « **Reply #23 on:** September 25, 2012, 05:06:20 AM »

Quote from: emu265 on September 25, 2012, 04:01:55 AM

What this says to me is that they are going to try and wear us out. We can't let that happen.

Thats exactly what worries me. The longer this is going on, the less people are logging on. The most populated channel on Pinn (that I know of) is currently sitting at just 23, and this is a channel that I have NEVER seen dip below 50 on the slowest of nights, and I fear it's just going to get worse. I admit to having my resolve shaken a bit with the loss of Zwil, expected as it may have been, along with the loss of players among other things, but I will be here til the end (and beyond) with a faith that, even if shaken, will not be broken. I don't think I would still be here if I didn't feel deep down that something will happen, so whatever the plan is, you can count this hero in it to win it, just tell me what and where. I only wish I could say the same for my missing compatriots.

Segev · « **Reply #24 on:** September 25, 2012, 05:16:30 AM »

Well, put out a call to those still on to ask their friends to come back on.

Arrange events to attract those who've decided to quit "just one last time," and then ask them what they'd do to see it continue.

I confess to not being a player, myself; I haven't played in years. I don't have the name, face, nor connections to rally people in-game, even if Segev-the-villain is still there should I try to recreate my account. But those of you who do, if it is saddening you to see people dwindle in numbers, ask them to come back. That is another use for the "other social media" that people have been discussing using to get the story out: re-connect with those who've left. Invite them to this forum, as it seems a central gathering place. Point them to the poll asking what people would pay if it continued. Get real numbers up.

Heat Guard · « **Reply #25 on:** September 25, 2012, 05:55:40 AM »

This weekend will mark one month since the news about the game. How hard would it be to try to organize another stand in event like on Virtue? Maybe if we do one every month or so, with roughly the same numbers, it'll show our resolve in a way that we need.

Viridian Surge · « **Reply #26 on:** September 25, 2012, 06:03:56 AM »

Prior to the announcement by NCSoft to shutdown Paragon Studios and City of Heroes,
I was playing about once a week. Since the announcement, even when I don't feel like logging on or feel depressed
I at least log on to a server and stand in vigil with other players.

Currently I have been on about five days a week. Been playing with a friend at least 3 times a week.

So to others, who are feeling sad or depressed and don't feel like logging, how about logging on and stand vigil in Atlas Park.
You may not be running missions, but at least you will be supporting City of Heroes. To avoid being logged off from being afk too long, get mission from Architect Entertainment so that you are in Task Force mode.

StarRanger4 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 25, 2012, 06:44:52 AM »

Quote from: emu265 on September 25, 2012, 04:01:55 AM

What this says to me is that they are going to try and wear us out. We can't let that happen.

+1 for truth. Its something I've seen more than once, a mind set of "we do not see you, therefore you do not exist. Since you do hot exist we shall continue to not see you for as long as it takes for you to bow to OUR will"

I've seen it from Asian groups of all nationalities at times, too. not just koreans.

Knightward · « **Reply #28 on:** September 25, 2012, 09:38:31 AM »

I've been logging in and playing every day (or as close as I can manage) since the announcement. At best I'm contributing to server activity, which keeps the pressure on in the negotiations/siege as near as I can tell. At worst I'm enjoying it while I still can.

I'm too angry to be depressed. I'm too stubborn to give up. And while I waver between hope and despair, I don't need hope to keep me going. I keep going because I should, regardless of the outcome.

Don't be sad. Be mad.

RogerWilco · « **Reply #29 on:** September 25, 2012, 11:53:52 AM »

Quote from: LunaEclypse on September 24, 2012, 11:30:38 PM

You, a South Korean publisher, abruptly laid off 80+ good, hard-working Americans IN THIS COUNTRY who were working on a profitable, self-sustaining IP just because they didn't fit into your Masterplan.

Please refrain from using this kind of language. I care about the 80 people at PS losing their job and the game they made. I don't care if they were from the USA or NCsoft is from Korea and using this kind of language to frame the discussion is not helping. I'm not American or Korean and I think it's not relevant and bringing it up look immature.

I will follow TonyV as far as actions go, he seems to have done things I can agree with so far.

Atlantea · « **Reply #30 on:** September 25, 2012, 12:55:44 PM »

You know, I had a post for Carbine Studios and Wildstar ready to go. I posted the draft a couple of hours ago in this thread here: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,5307.0.html

Wondering if I should proceed or not.

You guys have convinced me that it's time to turn the screws a little bit tighter.

deathbringer0311 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:17:24 PM »

I think this Korean owned NCsoft company is about to say the same words that Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto said, "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." and i hope they get the same outcome! (financially that is)

P51mus · « **Reply #32 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:28:24 PM »

Quote from: Heat Guard on September 25, 2012, 05:06:20 AM

Thats exactly what worries me. The longer this is going on, the less people are logging on. The most populated channel on Pinn (that I know of) is currently sitting at just 23, and this is a channel that I have NEVER seen dip below 50 on the slowest of nights, and I fear it's just going to get worse. I admit to having my resolve shaken a bit with the loss of Zwil, expected as it may have been, along with the loss of players among other things, but I will be here til the end (and beyond) with a faith that, even if shaken, will not be broken. I don't think I would still be here if I didn't feel deep down that something will happen, so whatever the plan is, you can count this hero in it to win it, just tell me what and where. I only wish I could say the same for my missing compatriots.

Well, I dunno about the other people, but I haven't been logging in much because Borderlands 2 just came out. That would've distracted me no matter what. Torchlight 2 just came out as well. That's two long awaited games that would've depressed server populations somewhat no matter what, not sure how much of an effect they're having exactly.

Golden Girl · « **Reply #33 on:** September 25, 2012, 04:29:32 PM »

Quote from: emu265 on September 25, 2012, 04:01:55 AM

What this says to me is that they are going to try and wear us out. We can't let that happen.

I know - they seem to thnik that this will just blow over - that's why we need to keep up the pressure, and find new ways to spread the story.

TheFlea · « **Reply #34 on:** September 25, 2012, 05:45:12 PM »

It's about endurance and it's about noise. We have to keep making noise. The moment the whispers fade away we've lost.

It's actually fairly common practice to just try and weather the storm. We have to show them that this storm isn't going anywhere and any lapses are simply the eye of the storm. But I understand the fatigue that's setting in. People are burning out and for that I say this - take a few days break and come back to it. Don't burn yourself out early on. Pace yourselves, keep going and persevere.

Paindancer · « **Reply #35 on:** September 25, 2012, 06:33:42 PM »

Absolutely.

They are playing a game of attrition with us. I just posted about this.. but, the more we drop, the less of a splash they have at shutdown.

WanderingAries · « **Reply #36 on:** September 26, 2012, 02:22:20 AM »

Quote from: Heat Guard on September 25, 2012, 05:06:20 AM

Thats exactly what worries me. The longer this is going on, the less people are logging on. The most populated channel on Pinn (that I know of) is currently sitting at just 23, and this is a channel that I have NEVER seen dip below 50 on the slowest of nights, and I fear it's just going to get worse. I admit to having my resolve shaken a bit with the loss of Zwil, expected as it may have been, along with the loss of players among other things, but I will be here til the end (and beyond) with a faith that, even if shaken, will not be broken. I don't think I would still be here if I didn't feel deep down that something will happen, so whatever the plan is, you can count this hero in it to win it, just tell me what and where. I only wish I could say the same for my missing compatriots.

somebody's been stalkin my posts eh? ;-)

Kheprera · « **Reply #37 on:** September 26, 2012, 03:38:27 AM »

Zwill leaving shook me more than anything else. That he's been so silent on the matter bugs me, knowing how talkative he was with the forum.

His silence is deafening.

I log in and wander around rather aimlessly. My Global list is grey.

I hate soloing.

It's been really hard to go in lately, to see all this that I've worked so hard on, the base I've built with my grandfather's memory. The characters I've created so long ago (before CoH even) and living and moving and fighting and saving... doing what they were always meant to do, to be...

And it hurts to feel it all slipping away.

But CoH isn't just a game. It's family. It's a friend. I don't turn my back on my friends when they need me the most.

I'm not about to start now.

DrakeGrimm · « **Reply #38 on:** September 26, 2012, 04:00:12 AM »

Quote from: Kheprera on September 26, 2012, 03:38:27 AM

Zwill leaving shook me more than anything else. That he's been so silent on the matter bugs me, knowing how talkative he was with the forum.

His silence is deafening.

I log in and wander around rather aimlessly. My Global list is grey.

I hate soloing.

It's been really hard to go in lately, to see all this that I've worked so hard on, the base I've built with my grandfather's memory. The characters I've created so long ago (before CoH even) and living and moving and fighting and saving... doing what they were always meant to do, to be...

And it hurts to feel it all slipping away.

But CoH isn't just a game. It's family. It's a friend. I don't turn my back on my friends when they need me the most.

I'm not about to start now.

Zwill's likely been buried under NDAs. Don't let it dishearten you. We all stand proud and tall together.

Victoria Victrix · « **Reply #39 on:** September 26, 2012, 09:02:50 AM »

Quote from: Kheprera on September 26, 2012, 03:38:27 AM

Zwill leaving shook me more than anything else. That he's been so silent on the matter bugs me, knowing how talkative he was with the forum.

His silence is deafening.

I log in and wander around rather aimlessly. My Global list is grey.

I hate soloing.

It's been really hard to go in lately, to see all this that I've worked so hard on, the base I've built with my grandfather's memory. The characters I've created so long ago (before CoH even) and living and moving and fighting and saving... doing what they were always meant to do, to be...

And it hurts to feel it all slipping away.

But CoH isn't just a game. It's family. It's a friend. I don't turn my back on my friends when they need me the most.

I'm not about to start now.

Zwill is faced with a wall of "Don't you dare talk to ANYONE if you want to get your severance package and unemployment checks," I guarantee.

Transfer someone over to Virtue or Pinnacle, just to team. There's a pile of people on CAPERadio channel that are teaming, and same on PinnBadges.

And hang in there.

Demorecord a walkthrough of your base. You'll want that regardless.

Kheprera · « **Reply #40 on:** September 26, 2012, 01:57:01 PM »

Most of my mains are on Virtue. I'll try tonight and see if I can add the cape radio's global to my list.

Hyperstrike · « **Reply #41 on:** September 26, 2012, 02:41:23 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Victrix on September 26, 2012, 09:02:50 AM

Zwill is faced with a wall of "Don't you dare talk to ANYONE if you want to get your severance package and unemployment checks," I guarantee.

Transfer someone over to Virtue or Pinnacle, just to team. There's a pile of people on CAPERadio channel that are teaming, and same on PinnBadges.

And hang in there.

Demorecord a walkthrough of your base. You'll want that regardless.

Agreed!

Negotiations are STILL ongoing guys. Give the guys from Paragon a bit more time.
Until they come back and go "We tried. Didn't work. Sorry!" this isn't even CLOSE to over.

Segev · « **Reply #42 on:** September 26, 2012, 02:43:54 PM »

And even if their internal negotiations fail, that's just time for others who want to try their hand to approach them and ask what the fail-points were so they can try to tackle them.

StarRanger4 · « **Reply #43 on:** September 26, 2012, 04:21:35 PM »

Quote from: Kheprera on September 26, 2012, 01:57:01 PM

Most of my mains are on Virtue. I'll try tonight and see if I can add the cape radio's global to my list.

You'll need an invite. Check the cape's radio page for when the DJ's are live and send him a tell. they'll fix the rest

News:

Author Topic: Don't give up on this yet = it's not time to get out of the Bunkers yet! (Read 9831 times)