What should we be thinking now?

[sindyr]

NCSoft has just posted a very final notice on their site about the shutdown of City, I'm sure you all saw that.

Is this a sign that the talks and efforts to "reboot" the game under new management have failed?  Can *anyone* confirm if those talks are continuing?  What information is there for us to have any inkling about the future of playing this game?  Or did we finally hit the point where we should be surrendering to the horrible inevitable?

Not looking to lie to myself here, but I would really like some concrete reason to continue to have a little hope.

Anyone got anything?

[DrakeGrimm]

...they did? I'm not finding anything. Link(s)?

[Segev]

Victoria Victorix, who seems to be respected around here as somebody who would be in a position to know, has said there are ongoing talks and that they are still underway. She either has no further information to give us or is not allowed due to her real life positioning to tell us anything more. But it is neither good nor bad news, merely ongoing hope at the moment.

[DrakeGrimm]

Victoria Victorix, who seems to be respected around here as somebody who would be in a position to know, has said there are ongoing talks and that they are still underway. She either has no further information to give us or is not allowed due to her real life positioning to tell us anything more. But it is neither good nor bad news, merely ongoing hope at the moment.

Also, this.

[padathir]

NCSoft has just posted a very final notice on their site about the shutdown of City, I'm sure you all saw that.

I see no such post. Link?

Anyway just read the other threads in this forum to see that there are things going on outside of public announcement.

[sindyr]

Yes, the info about the rumored negotiations is old information at this point.  Much more recently we have had some more negative news, like the one in the OP.  What I am asking is is there any FRESH news to rekindle hope?  Or are we just hoping on fumes here?

[Segev]

Last Victoria post saying "it is still going" was yesterday. Given that business negotiations are not sporting events, "one day" is not "old news" barring actual official news that wholly contradicts it.

[sindyr]

Yesterday?  Good - that *is* news to take a little of the sting out.  Perhaps we will get more soon(tm).

[rathe101]

I still don't see a link posted anywhere..

[EventHorizonMan]

The only link I see on the City of Heroes homepage that could be assumed negative is the refund and subscription handling. In a way, that could be considered negative news because the fact they have implimented this means NCSoft have not changed their minds. They are still go for sunset on November 30th.

In the meantime, the best way to handle this is to participate in the Save Our Paragon City initiative, while at the same time have an open mind to the possibility of a world without City of Heroes on Dec 1st, 2012. For the latter point, you should be making plans on what you want to do with that "free time". For example, do you refocus your efforts in helping get Plan Z of the ground? Go to DCUO or CO?

As I've said many times to people who were upset, the characters we created live in our hearts and minds, and will be with if the servers do go down. All the game did was help give them a physical form in the game's own interpretation.

Event Horizon Man.

[Harermuir]

Hardest hit to the hope is for me Positron disclaiming what they have on their mind for the future ... If there is still hope that the game will continue, would he be doing this ?

[Osborn]

The only link I see on the City of Heroes homepage that could be assumed negative is the refund and subscription handling. In a way, that could be considered negative news because the fact they have implemented this means NCSoft have not changed their minds. They are still go for sunset on November 30th.

I'm not going to try to tell you that the game is saved or anything like that, but the goal was almost never go get NCSoft to keep the game in their portfolio. The goal has been more to get them to release the game to the public or sell the game to somebody else, or something similar.

So, them doing this was going to happen either way. If they decide they're going to shutter the game forever, they're going to drop their investment in the game by the 30th of November and give refunds for time or points left over.

If they decide to sell the game, then they're going to drop their investment in the game by the 30th of November and then whomever gets the game after them will make their own billing schedule or whatever.

At no point is this a surprising or conclusive move.

It's like saying "Anybody capable of shutting the game down has to respire! NCSoft employees are respiring! That means they're shutting down the game!". It's a bit meaningless.

I mean, I'm not trying to get your hopes up too much, and I know the odds are massively stacked against us. But let's save the doom saying for actual news instead of casting fortunes in the little bits of chicken bones we have found.

[Siberian Spring]

[Mold]

"What should we be thinking now?"

Nothing, we should keep fighting and for the love of Pete keep playing. Keep writing people keep tweeting keep moving, keep coming up with ideals to save the game. But don't think about bad news because there is a link on a NCSoft page, and as every hitchhiker knows DON'T PANIC!!!!!

[TheFlea]

Hardest hit to the hope is for me Positron disclaiming what they have on their mind for the future ... If there is still hope that the game will continue, would he be doing this ?

Not so much the case. Read the Lore AMA again. There's a lot of vague answers or 'cannot disclose this' answers. If the game was 100% set to die then why would it be kept hidden away like that?

Also, consider that until it is announced otherwise that the game will be closing down on 30/11/12. As such all the developer, community rep etc posts have to go from this stance and viewpoint. The moment it changes I'm sure they'll be retracting things in a heartbeat. But until that moment comes about they have to put on a brave face and deal with it.

[Vulpy]

"Should" is a very loaded word. In the absence of mental health disturbances, you shouldn't be thinking anything other than what you are thinking (and even then, unless delusions make you likely to injure yourself or others, I probably wouldn't say anything). How you feel carries no implicit moral weight, good or bad. What should we do? That's the better question. No matter what you're thinking or feeling, the most productive course of action continues to be positive effort. No, even that probably won't pay off the way we want it to, but it's still the best chance we have.

[EventHorizonMan]

I'm not going to try to tell you that the game is saved or anything like that, but the goal was almost never go get NCSoft to keep the game in their portfolio. The goal has been more to get them to release the game to the public or sell the game to somebody else, or something similar.

So, them doing this was going to happen either way. If they decide they're going to shutter the game forever, they're going to drop their investment in the game by the 30th of November and give refunds for time or points left over.

If they decide to sell the game, then they're going to drop their investment in the game by the 30th of November and then whomever gets the game after them will make their own billing schedule or whatever.

At no point is this a surprising or conclusive move.

It's like saying "Anybody capable of shutting the game down has to respire! NCSoft employees are respiring! That means they're shutting down the game!". It's a bit meaningless.

I mean, I'm not trying to get your hopes up too much, and I know the odds are massively stacked against us. But let's save the doom saying for actual news instead of casting fortunes in the little bits of chicken bones we have found.

No doom and gloom here. I was actually offering a balanced suggestion to the question asked in the subject line. Of course, have faith and keep on trying but at the same time ask yourselves what you want to do if our best efforts do not produce the results we hope for.

Event Horizon Man

[QuantumHero]

What we should do
is keep hope alive
Fight to survive
Do not roll over and die

It alright to cry
Its alright to scream
What we can notdo
Let go of the dream

We are a community
Let our voices be heard
Please sell to Paragon
Or let us go free

If the lights go out in our city
It won't be because we didn't try
We are city of heroes
Don't let us die

[Luna Eclypse]

Since our goal is ultimately to see NCsoft sell the game to another company to keep it alive, we can only speculate on who, if anyone, will step up with an offer. Would Paragon Studios be able to reform independently with the resources to purchase the game themselves? It's a nice sentiment but might be a lot more work and/or trouble for those involved.

But I would think that ANYONE in the Western market could maintain and handle our game better than NCsoft. Even Electronic Arts. At least we'd have some deep pockets for developer employment and resources then.

I'm doubtful they'll ever release the game code to us. They pay a licensing fee for the game engine from Cryptic so it would have to be cleared by them... and I'm sure Cryptic would rather try to convert us to Champions Online. Screw that.

[Copper Cockroach]

Or did we finally hit the point where we should be surrendering to the horrible inevitable?

We're superheroes. There is no point where we surrender to the inevitable.

A replacement is already in the works. I won't pretend it'll be online right away... no one's tried this before, players pooling their skills to lawfully recreate a game that the publisher tried to kill off... but if NCsoft pulls a full-on "Dog in the Manger", it'll only be a matter of time before a new City appears.

Take heart, people! The absolute worst NCsoft can do to us is bury the IP. They took away our sexy ghost in a PVC bodysuit? We'll just come up with an even sexier ghost in an even shinier bodysuit (though we may have to leave off the butt-cape. Sorry, butt-cape enthusiasts).

[Aggelakis]

(though we may have to leave off the butt-cape. Sorry, butt-cape enthusiasts).

Pish posh. Just shape it a little differently. You can tear my buttcapes from my cold, dead hands! And also hers.

[Electric-Knight]

Pretty sure you should be thinking, "Man, that Electric-Knight is one happenin' guy!!".
 

[Harermuir]

Not so much the case. Read the Lore AMA again. There's a lot of vague answers or 'cannot disclose this' answers. If the game was 100% set to die then why would it be kept hidden away like that?

Cause NCsoft is still clutching our poor world and Positron is tied by contractual engagment ?

[downix]

Pretty sure you should be thinking, "Man, that Electric-Knight is one happenin' guy!!".
 

*thumbs up*

[Segev]

Pretty sure you should be thinking, "Man, that Electric-Knight is one happenin' guy!!".
 

Have you heard about that hoopy Electric Knight? Now there's a frood who always knows where his towel's at."

[Copper Cockroach]

Not so much the case. Read the Lore AMA again. There's a lot of vague answers or 'cannot disclose this' answers. If the game was 100% set to die then why would it be kept hidden away like that?

Also, consider that until it is announced otherwise that the game will be closing down on 30/11/12. As such all the developer, community rep etc posts have to go from this stance and viewpoint. The moment it changes I'm sure they'll be retracting things in a heartbeat. But until that moment comes about they have to put on a brave face and deal with it.

Good points... I was going bonkers myself, trying to cut through all the vagueness and evasiveness (I guess old habits are hard to break). Except for the details about Scirocco's Totally Excellent Face Turn (which was gonna go down EXACTLY as I'd predicted, thank you Dr. Aeon), I knew, or guessed, most of it already.

Another thing, though... let's say the best happens; Paragon Studios is reunited and the game is sold lock-stock-and-barrel to another publisher who knows how to handle the title properly. Seems to me the thing to do would be to crank out issues 24 & 25... then turn the studio's full attention toward CoH2.

That would be an opportunity to say "Oh sure, yeah, all that stuff was gonna happen, but that was Primal Earth 1, see? This is Primal Earth 2... anything can happen now, and will!"

Comic book superhero writing is all about flying by the seat of one's pants, coming up with total B.S. out of the blue and running with it. Some of the greatest stuff in comics history was created this way... the first time Stan Lee ever heard of the Silver Surfer was when Kirby turned in the artwork for FF #48. The King thought it would be cool if Galactus had a herald who flew on ahead and announced his arrival... so he just made him up off the top of his head.

If Protean and Dr. Aeon are able to join in, I'm confident they'll be able to whip up some New Awesomeness.

[padathir]

I suspect we should take it easy

[unladenswallow]

I suspect we should take it easy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEzTdBJUHO8

[uninventive]

NCSoft has just posted a very final notice on their site about the shutdown of City, I'm sure you all saw that.

Still waiting for evidence of this 'notice'.  If the OP is referring to the Refund announcement on the COH Homepage, that's nothing that was surprising... they have to pay folks back for unused time (and for all that any breathing NCSoft employee below the Chief level knows, the game is still closing on Nov. 30th.)

That's not a "give up, go home, and we're not validating your parking" kind of reply.  That's a form letter.  Keep your head up.

"Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? Was there no communication? Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?" -Raoul Duke

[padathir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEzTdBJUHO8

 

[uninventive]

I apologize, I politely refuse to acknowledge Glenn Frey's existence on this earth after what that monster did on Miami Vice. 

But I do appreciate your sentiment, and thank you for the reply.

[Victoria Victrix]

You know, my husband has a saying that perfectly sums up this situation.

"Greed kills cool."

[Lady Luck]

Are you pondering what I'm pondering?   

[DrakeGrimm]

Are you pondering what I'm pondering?   

I t'ink so, Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants in our size!?

[TimtheEnchanter]

You know, my husband has a saying that perfectly sums up this situation.

"Greed kills cool."

It kills pretty much everything actually, if given the chance. Everything from Han Solo shooting first, to global oceanic life.

[DrakeGrimm]

...but can greed kill greed?

* DrakeGrimm starts plotting...

[Segev]

Greed kills itself, yes.

Enlightened self-interest, on the other hand, (perhaps perversely) causes all involved to gain in the long run.

And, of course, everyone on this board wants CoH to continue; it's in their self-interest. The trick, the goal, the method is to find a way that it becomes in the self-interest of those who now control it to allow it to continue. And in the interest of those who obtain it for it to do so, as well.

Fortunately! I think this is all quite possible.

Provided blind covetous greed does not clutch hearts and deafen them to enlightened recognition of their own true interests.

[Victoria Victrix]

We should be thinking how to convince Cryptic to allow us to continue to use the game-engine which is currently licensed to NCSoft for City.

It suddenly occurred to me that this might be part of the problem.  NCSoft may literally not be able to release the IP because running it requires a game engine they themselves do not have the ability to re-license to someone else.

If we can prove Cryptic will re-license...we might be able to get the IP pried out of their fingers.

Anybody still have contacts over there?

[Segev]

That's actually a very good insight, Victoria. I don't have direct contacts there, but that hasn't stopped me from trying to get in touch (so far unsuccessfully) with NCSoft people when I first started looking into this. I have a LinkedIn business account with supposedly-guaranteed-to-get-response message services (I need to pester them about that guarantee regarding one that I have tried and not gotten replies from); maybe it will work better with Crytpic people.

I will get on that today. Hopefully I'll find some people who can and will reply.