Author Topic: Legal Considerations and Challenges  (Read 50372 times)

Superhobo

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 06:42:13 PM »
This post got me to thinking of a number of things.

First, while it's awfully early to start thinking about the specifics of a potential new setting, GG is right that it's a good idea to secure things like domain names as soon as possible.  I caution against using either "Phoenix" or "Titan," though.  While both are great names, for all the reasons GG stated, both are also strongly associated with characters of major comics publishers.  I think a cease and desist letter from DC (Titan) or Marvel (Phoenix) is likely as soon as either name goes into use.  It's a bitter pill to swallow, but these are the kinds of pitfalls we need to avoid, especially at very early stages.  I'm pretty confident that the community that came up with eight and a half years of character names is more than up to the challenge of thinking up something both punchy and original.


Wasn't NCSoft sued by Marvel when CoH went live? If I'm not mistaken, part of the settlement was that players weren't allowed to create toons with the names of any Marvel character or the likeness of one and that's why they get deleted so quickly.

Superhobo

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 06:50:19 PM »
Also, one thing to note about types of business structures. Partnerships have no liability limitations. If a partnership were formed and then sued by someone and the other party won, the registered partners would be fully liable for the suit. That means that if the partnership didn't have the funds, liquid assets, or convertible fix assets to cover the suit, the personal property of the partners would be taken, i.e. houses, cars, etc. A corporation is just the opposite in many ways. There is limited liability, but if say one day everyone decided they weren't interested in the company anymore, you can't just walk away and that's that. There are financial liabilities involved. You'll have to register officers, declare ownership and percentages, etc. If one person decides to walk away, the other partners can sue, offer a buyout, and other options. An example of this happening would be what happened at Orange County Choppers and the long lawsuit Paul, Sr. filed to force Paul, Jr. to sell his shares at what was a reduced market value.

I would suggest either an LLC or S-Corp. The liability protection of a corporation, but the ability to scale back and/or shut down if the decision is made that the direction isn't in-line with the vision, etc.

Tanglefoe

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 07:02:56 PM »
This has been a good read.  I went to school for Business Administration and it has brought back a lot of memories...only I'm a dropout :(  I landed my dream job as a student, which has over the years turned into a nightmare :gonk:

Kheprera

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2012, 07:21:44 PM »
Okay, I can help with something! Yay!  Even if it is miniscule...

when trying to run a business on various platforms, you have to consider tax liability. Below are links to the irs.gov website to explain things better than I can.

Starting a Business: There is a link in here marked "Selecting a Business Structure." Something we may start with. There's even a checklist.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Starting-a-Business

501(c):
http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Exemption-Requirements---Section-501(c)(3)-Organizations

Corporations are more complex. There are different types of Corps and we'd really need someone with the know-how to determine if this is the way we want to go.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations

Partnerships
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Partnerships

Small Business
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed

Once we have all the information and have made the decision, I can direct to where to find the right forms we will need. Unfortunately due to my job I would be unable to take on any kind of accounting position as it would be a conflict of interest.

Back Blast

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2012, 07:45:23 PM »
Wasn't NCSoft sued by Marvel when CoH went live? If I'm not mistaken, part of the settlement was that players weren't allowed to create toons with the names of any Marvel character or the likeness of one and that's why they get deleted so quickly.

I'm not sure if anything ever got quite to the lawsuit phase but there were a lot of cheap knockoffs of major comic heroes running about early on. Once the threat of things going to lawsuit land got real, they clamped down pretty hard on any appearance of IP infringement regardless of whose it was. I never bothered trying it myself. One big appeal of the game for me was the opportunity to make up my own character and not some cheesy knockoff.

One thought on naming the hypothetical new Paragon would perhaps be to just use and re-imagine a real place. Surely no one can sue over that? PC was supposedly a re-imagined Providence, RI. So we make our own and actually call it that. Or pick a different city if folks like. Then all we need is a snappy name to the game. Or for real ambition, make it a 'World of Heroes'. Today, you're thwarting terrorists in NYC and then it's off across the pond tomorrow to London to keep some evil villain from stealing the crown jewels.

Codewalker

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2012, 07:48:15 PM »
I like the idea of calling it Providence.

It seems fitting somehow.

dwturducken

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2012, 08:18:06 PM »
This post got me to thinking of a number of things.

First, while it's awfully early to start thinking about the specifics of a potential new setting, GG is right that it's a good idea to secure things like domain names as soon as possible.  I caution against using either "Phoenix" or "Titan," though.  While both are great names, for all the reasons GG stated, both are also strongly associated with characters of major comics publishers.  I think a cease and desist letter from DC (Titan) or Marvel (Phoenix) is likely as soon as either name goes into use.  It's a bitter pill to swallow, but these are the kinds of pitfalls we need to avoid, especially at very early stages.  I'm pretty confident that the community that came up with eight and a half years of character names is more than up to the challenge of thinking up something both punchy and original.

Ok, this makes me think of the beginning of Rendevous with Rama: all the western mythologies were used up, so naming started to pick into the eastern ones.  That would make it a little more difficult to find an audience outside the existing, loyal player base and, say, southern Asia.  "What the heck is Vishnu City?"

Providence does, indeed, have a nice ring to it, but I see a temptation, maybe even an expectation, to start using real-world place names, which could lead to trouble with something like a sports arena that has a trademark name.  I don't know the real Providence to know if there's, say, a Gordon's Fish Sticks Events Center, but you get where I'm coming from?
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Superhobo

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2012, 08:21:36 PM »
Providence I find funny as the former mayor is doing time for corruption at the federal penn on Ft. Dix, NJ.

Golden Girl

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2012, 08:43:01 PM »
I like the idea of calling it Providence.

It seems fitting somehow.

The name "Providence" in the geekosphere has quite strong links to H.P. Lovecraft, which seems to have been one of the big reasons for setting Paragon City in the same area, as a lot of the original devs were big Lovecraft fans.
The fact that it's a reasonably well know real place might also take away a bit from fictioanl city vibe we should be aiming for as the spiritual succesor to Paragon City.
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Golden Girl

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2012, 09:01:19 PM »
I caution against using either "Phoenix" or "Titan," though.  While both are great names, for all the reasons GG stated, both are also strongly associated with characters of major comics publishers.  I think a cease and desist letter from DC (Titan) or Marvel (Phoenix) is likely as soon as either name goes into use.  It's a bitter pill to swallow, but these are the kinds of pitfalls we need to avoid, especially at very early stages.

They'd have no case - if we chose to set the game in Phoenix, Arizona, there's nothing they can do about the name.
Also, "the Titan City" was an older nickname for New york, before "the Big Apple" came along - so following the Paragon City/Metropolis idea of the main fictional superhero city playing the same role as New York in the real world, using an actual nickname for New York works well.
If "Titan City" is chosen as the official name of the city, then I think theat "the Phoenix City" should be its nickname, referring to the various disasters it's survived during its history as the hub of the world's superpowered activity, as well as an obivous reference to the origins of Plan Z.
Playing on the NYC theme, as well as the word link of titan = giant, the name of one of the main sport franchises in the city could be the Titan City Giants - The Titan City Phoenixes could be another franchise, which would be using the city's nickname.

The whole project would also need a logo, which, going by those browser games that all have logos that kinda look rather like the WoW logo, would allow us to have something looking similar to the CoH logo.

It NCSoft is still being uneasonable by October, then I think that we should register the name and log, just in case.
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jacknomind

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2012, 09:22:15 PM »
It can't hurt to register, say, our top dozen picks, just in case.  I also want to point out that cities are legal entities and they can sue us to stop using their names, if they have cause.

Golden Girl

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2012, 09:25:01 PM »
It can't hurt to register, say, our top dozen picks, just in case.  I also want to point out that cities are legal entities and they can sue us to stop using their names, if they have cause.

In that case, that's another reason why Titan City works - not that I think Phoenix, Arizona would really object to being linked to a city of superpowered people.
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castorcorvus

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2012, 09:35:11 PM »
jacknomind, states are legal entities too, but Paragon City is placed in an alternative future for Rhode Island. You are overthinking this.

laufeyjarson

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2012, 10:21:56 PM »
Too bad the domain name's already taken.  =)

Golden Girl

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2012, 10:35:08 PM »
Too bad the domain name's already taken.  =)

What about www.titancityheroes.com?
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jacknomind

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2012, 10:36:43 PM »
jacknomind, states are legal entities too, but Paragon City is placed in an alternative future for Rhode Island.

It would only be a concern if we were to somehow defame the city in question.  Which I don't think is likely, but...

Quote
You are overthinking this.

Well, yes.  It's a crippling flaw IRL.  That's why the idea of a superhero who fights in a state of no-mind was so appealing to me.  ;)

Soundtrack

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2012, 11:01:13 PM »
I propose that if (and/or when) the time comes to need a name for the city, some names are nominated and there's a vote.

I don't believe that the name should be chosen by one or a few people.

If we want buy-in and ownership, let's have the community members help determine the name.

THWAJO

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2012, 11:04:56 PM »
Granted, this isn't the most pressing issue at this time, but since it came up, as a (non-IP) attorney, let me throw in my two cents on the copyright infringement issue regarding NPC names and the like. (Not coding which is a separate issue).

The way copyright law works, if there is any possibility that someone is infringing on your copyright, the law just about requires that you sue the potential infringer. Even if you don't care about it or aren't losing money, the problem is that if you don't sue, then somewhere down the road, when someone else infringes and you do care about it, then that party can claim that you abandoned the copyright. This is probably why Marvel sued Cryptic back in the day, not because they thought they would win, but just to cover themselves. My experience is that Paragon has been far less uptight about this particular CoC violation since the lawsuit was resolved. Since Marvel got what it wanted (a track record on protecting it's copyright), there wasn't really anything to worry about.

In a nutshell, copyright law almost forces companies to file frivilous lawsuits to protect their future interests. So obviously don't name a NPC "The Incredible Hulk" or name a city "Metropolis." But beyond a certain point, there's nothing you can do to absolutely guarantee that someone won't sue.


jacknomind

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2012, 11:10:49 PM »
So what you're saying is that we need you, Olantern, and any other attorneys or paralegals in the community to be very involved in any Plan Z... uh, planning.  ;)

Golden Girl

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Re: Legal Considerations and Challenges
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2012, 11:25:54 PM »
I propose that if (and/or when) the time comes to need a name for the city, some names are nominated and there's a vote.

I don't believe that the name should be chosen by one or a few people.

If we want buy-in and ownership, let's have the community members help determine the name.

Voting will be the major way that we make decisons if Plan Z is needed.
But the problem that we have with naming the project is that we need to seccure the name, domain name, logo copyright and so on well before November 30th, just in case - but we can't afford to distract from the momentum we're generating from the main campaign to save CoH - it'd totally undermine our efforts, and make it look like we were already giving up.
The only reason it's even been mentioned on the official forums is to show the wider community that no matter what happens, we're not just all going to go out separate ways on November 30th.
It's simply not possible to publicize and run the kind of large scale poll we'd need for choosing a name without damaging our focus on saving CoH.
If the absoulte worst thing happens, then we're going to need to be ready to swing into action on November 30th, and hit the community with something hopeful when they're at their lowest - the more organized and prepared we are for Plan Z being our only option left, the easier it'd be to energize the community and recruit the volunteers we'd need to have a chance of getting this off the ground.
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