Author Topic: Planning: Identifying options  (Read 30175 times)

QuantumHero

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 03:10:11 PM »
Okay now that I'm not posting on a phone :) Lets try a post without typos.

First I'd like to ask if we have confirmed that cryptic is not still/again part of this equation?  The way in which all of this went down feels like some sort of breakdown in negotiation....with someone.  Did a lease with cryptic expire?  Conversely is there the slightest chance cryptic would help us or merge the game with champions in some way that we would actually want?  I would honestly orefer either paragon studios going indie or COH to become ours...because its safest in the hands that love it...but our survival is priority one.

Something big happened here, for this to occur so suddenly and with no warning for our dev team.  I could speculate and make guesses, but we don't actualy know whether to actually be mad at NCsoft or not...could the real issue we have to overcome be outside preasure from another company with an existing or upcomming superhero MMO?  They claim to be refocusing so are we collateral damage or the main target?

We don't actually know if the main issue is financial or not...and the answer to those questions determine who we need at the negotiating table and what we are negotiating about.

This game has many aspects to it....if we could aquire and legally use every drop that is the ideal and should be our goal...of course.  But if we can get ANYTHING whatsoever...be it code or IP...honestly we could build something from the ashes.  If there are certain aspects of the IP or code that are sticking points then we change whatever we have to and adapt. 

For instance if we get the artwork, NPC groups, and engine but the signature charactors were held then they were all "lost" in whatever in-game event we concoct to explain the transition...same with any zones, missions, etc.

The engine coding is old and a lot of content has been merged with it over the years but if we could be given the rights even to the original disk data would that be enough to have a functional game running to hold this community together.  If on the other hand its cryptic data that is the problem could we throw the newer content on a new framework?  I'm not a programmer but I know enough to at least understand most of the discussions  ;)  A meeting area for socialization, teaming, and charactor maintenance tasks(unless those are handled in missions ala dfb) that contains portals to mission content would be all we need to keep the game going in the short term...IMO.

The interface and lore is what makes this game "feel" like COH so to me that is the most critical... but I completely understand how getting actual code and preferably some people familiar with it would help a great deal on the tech side.

The other thing we sould fight for as much as possible is for the right to archive, save, and preserve until all negotiations are concluded...even if held in the digital equivalent of an escrow situation.  We don't need people's credit cards...but the account and charactor data aside from credit cards would hopefully be less of an issue to transfer to a secure server.

Then there is all the data that was on test server...my knowledge of intellectual property is more toward books, tv, stage, & movies but I'm assuming that all work by paragon studios even unrealeased would be under work-for-hire and not elligible for us to aquire directly from them?  So would the test server build be easier or more difficult for us to legally aquire as far as content and code?

What about other aspects of the code that have been integrated in over the years.  For example: ragdoll physics?  Would the store be part of the deal or seperate?  Would we need to buy servers, physically take the existing ones to a new home, or remain hosted by NCsoft even if we owned the content?

These are all questions and I'm sure there are many more...until we have an open diolouge questions are going to be what they remain  :-\

I strongly believe this community of talented and dedicated individuals can salvage something, but legally is strongly preferred, there are a lot of "grey" areas we could exist in, if needed, but we cross that bridge if and when we have to. 

Just please believe its not all or nothing...we get whatever we can at whatever price we can manage...most importantly we get a guarentee that they won't try to shut us down or destroy anything prematurely.

Once we know who is willing to talk we ask for the IP and open source and/or the code, and user data if we can get it....we walk away with whatever we can and hopefully a legal leg to stand on...and we rise from the ashes...we survive as a community.

If by some miracle we get NCsoft to change thier minds completely, or give us everything including an option to partner with paragon...then its a relatively simple transition.

Whatever happens, if at all possible, we should try to get some sort of temporary COH of some kind up as close to the sunset point of coh as possible...even if its nothing more then a graphical chat room and encourage the community to test out whatever bits and pieces we can add as soon as we can.  Call it the COH refuge camp or something...at least we can recreate charactors and look out windows to see our lost world....maybe manage a few scaled down instanced events?  Or some way to play offline content?

I'm not a programer but lets just say immersion is something I understand very well...and I even have a few funding ideas.

Anyway I'm going to go back and lay while I can...because I'm hoping for the future...but missing game time right now hurts.

I salute you heroes.
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A Side Leader

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 04:42:45 PM »

Bludgeon

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 04:55:51 PM »
One Additional Option - Though It May Taste Bad

Like many, COH is my first and only MMOG.  I have been part of the community for almost seven years.  And like many of you I am not chronologically a kid.  I have experience, resources, and don't like a bully.  NCSoft has taken payment for service to be rendered in the future.  Unless they plan on returning those funds, it seems that they may have exposed themselves to litigation.  A class action suit geared towards gaining the IP rather than a monetary settlement.  It is unlikely that we would not win the case, bu it is likely that NCSoft would not want to great dragged through the mud by an angry user community.  Rule one in a corporate crisis is control the story and control the media. Corporate image is a major asset that must be protected.....in this case, they can't. 

1. We are an online community and we are better at this shit than they are. 
2. We have nothing to loose...they have to play defense.
3. We have been wronged, and there isn't a gamer out there who will not see it from our perspective.
4. We can raise doubts in the minds of every NCSoft customer...they can't run from what they have done.

There are a number of other reasons that I could list, but you get the point.  In our community, I am sure that we can locate an attorney or two who would like nothing more than to shove a red hot polker up the arse of NCSoft. As I said, it is distasteful.  But it is a legitimate option for gaining control of the source code and IP.  After that we could consider placing the code in in escrow and establish a non-profit trust.  I don't think it would be hard to get folks to contribute...I know that I am in.

I DIDN'T CHOOSE MY HANDLE BECAUSE I PLAY NICE!  I play to win.  And some times you need to "wind up a big ass club and keep swinging until the screaming stops." *grin


My 2 cents...as always, I reserve the right to be wrong at all times.

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jordanhb

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 05:29:13 PM »
One Additional Option - Though It May Taste Bad

Like many, COH is my first and only MMOG.  I have been part of the community for almost seven years.  And like many of you I am not chronologically a kid.  I have experience, resources, and don't like a bully.  NCSoft has taken payment for service to be rendered in the future.  Unless they plan on returning those funds, it seems that they may have exposed themselves to litigation.  A class action suit geared towards gaining the IP rather than a monetary settlement.  It is unlikely that we would not win the case, bu it is likely that NCSoft would not want to great dragged through the mud by an angry user community.  Rule one in a corporate crisis is control the story and control the media. Corporate image is a major asset that must be protected.....in this case, they can't. 

1. We are an online community and we are better at this shit than they are. 
2. We have nothing to loose...they have to play defense.
3. We have been wronged, and there isn't a gamer out there who will not see it from our perspective.
4. We can raise doubts in the minds of every NCSoft customer...they can't run from what they have done.

There are a number of other reasons that I could list, but you get the point.  In our community, I am sure that we can locate an attorney or two who would like nothing more than to shove a red hot polker up the arse of NCSoft. As I said, it is distasteful.  But it is a legitimate option for gaining control of the source code and IP.  After that we could consider placing the code in in escrow and establish a non-profit trust.  I don't think it would be hard to get folks to contribute...I know that I am in.

I DIDN'T CHOOSE MY HANDLE BECAUSE I PLAY NICE!  I play to win.  And some times you need to "wind up a big ass club and keep swinging until the screaming stops." *grin


My 2 cents...as always, I reserve the right to be wrong at all times.

-- Blu

While it's good to see ideas, I just don't see this one as realistic.  First off, I'm pretty sure we couldn't sue them to get their intellectual property.  I'm pretty sure that's not allowed, unless we can somehow prove we have some sort of claim to it.  The only way I could see us getting it in a lawsuit is if we won and they didn't have enough to pay us. 

Second, it's wrong to say we as a community have nothing to lose.  Lawyers and lawsuits are expensive.  We could end up wasting a lot of people's time and money.  I work hard for my money, and so does everyone else.  I'm willing to use some of it to try to keep CoH alive, but only if I think it has a real chance of success. 

And finally, I don't think that a lawsuit will really be an option in the first place.  I wrote NCSoft billing support an e-mail yesterday asking about a refund for my Paragon Points, since I had a decent number of them that there's no point in spending.  Their response is quoted below.

Quote
Hello,
 
We would first like to thank you for your support of City of Heroes. It is never easy to make this kind of decision. You can read the official announcement at http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/news_archive/thank_you.php. There is a discussion on the forums that you are free to join at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=295621.
 
For refunds of unused time or unspent Paragon Points, we will be contacting those players directly with information. Please watch the website for any official updates as soon as they are available.
 
City of Heroes will be available for at least the next three months. We are working on something special for our VIP and Premium players.  As soon as these plans are ready, they will be announced on the website and the forums.
 
Regards,
The City of Heroes Support Team

So it sounds like they're going to be giving out refunds, which pretty much kills the idea of a lawsuit on that basis.

Soundtrack

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 05:40:10 PM »
Unless the "we are working on something special for our VIP and Premium members" equates to "Complimentary credit/time on one of our other fantastic MMOs."

If that's the case, I'd just as soon have my money back, thanks.

Magia

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 06:02:34 PM »
I have a question... something I've been trying to research on the legal front.

If there's a possibility there *might* be a case, there's a chance we could use that. As people have mentioned, legal stuff is expensive... as is bad PR. Someone would be able to put together something using phrases like "I/We feel that...", "I/We understand that it might be the case that..." etc etc, to raise with them that there might be a case before it necessarily gets too far. The idea is to add to the pressure to come up with a better solution, not necessarily to actually have to use this. Even so, we'd need to know that the idea is solid enough first.

So... within the last year, many of us have bought game content under the expectation that we would be able to use it. I'm citing the last year, since that seems like a pretty reasonable period of time to me. I guess statute of limitations type parameters might apply, but I don't know. Part of the reason I'm posting here, is so people who know, or know people who would know, can find out the answers and keep us posted. Now, regardless of all the disclaimers in the user agreement thingy, I expect there is a chance that removing the ability to use the content we have purchased, *could* be considered to make the original basis of the purchase fraudulent. We put the money in, and now, I for one, feel a bit cheated. I live on a really tight budget, and need every penny! Had I known I wouldn't be able to use the content, I doubt I would have paid for it. I expect I would have continued my standard subscription and continued playing existing alts, but certainly would have thought again about buying new powersets, costume items and other game content. Buying these items is an investment in something we believe we will be able to use and enjoy in the future, not just in the immediate month after, but way beyond that.

If anyone can confirm whether there is a *reasonable chance* that they could be considered to have sold content on a fraudulent basis, then it might be helpful to know. This is not necessarily because we want to use it to go on the attack... but if we think there's a chance we *could* I guess it might add to the pressure. The aforementioned solutions of selling the game/transferring ownership could get around the issue for NC Soft, since they could ensure that (and might need to write it in anyway to any sale transfer docs to cover their asses) as far as they are concerned, the content would be usable under the basis and understanding upon which it was purchased within whatever the statute of limitations boundaries are- if that's the appropriate bit of legislation to use...

Of course they could give us our money back too... that might well be cheaper for them actually. Though the bad PR, and the potential impact of that, might be worth a bit more to them.

Like I say, the question is more, is there a case to be made- thus making it something we could use to help *encourage* them to come up with a more positive solution? Answers and echoed responses from any friendly lawyers you know who might be able to offer a more concrete answer on a postcard please! Mmm... yes... there was a mention of postcards somewhere.

QuantumHero

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Re: One more avenue to try
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2012, 10:36:05 PM »
I have one more possible parter for us...it might be a long shot..but bear with me.

I was at universal studios in florida recently...the have a super hero island filled with marvel themed charactors (marvel know being under the auspices of disney...thier direct competitor)...I know they have perpetual theme park rights to those charactors...but to further flesh out thier island and maybe have some film fodder, to be able to work with an independent property...I wouldn't expect them to build us a life size version of COH but if the even gave us a small representation on super hero island/invested in the game...I'm not exactly sure how or what we could pitch to universal but I feel as if there is a chance of something useful occuring.
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Talionis

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 11:10:39 PM »
I don't know a lot about RPGS's but are there any free source code that a game engine could be created from?  DOTA comes to mind as they created a game with mostly user content even though you had to by the older Warcraft game and then download the map. 

Is there a possibility of using an open source code mmorpg with engines and then getting enough people to make a shadow version of CoH? 

I am doubting we would get access to the intellectual property, but if all the old players moved the community to something that was Super Hero based, maybe we could create our own CoH2.

Prettiest graphics has never been important to me, just a game that plays well.  In fact the whole world could be like AE.

Olantern

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2012, 12:38:09 AM »
I'd like to help out with the effort to save City of Heroes for several reasons.

First, I just plain like the game.  It's been a big part of my life for seven+ years now.

Second, while I am usually the voice of doom on ideas like this, I find the idea of a game's players rescuing it from dissolution inspiring.  It's something I'd be proud to be part of.

Third, and following on from the last point, I may be able to volunteer something to the effort.  I'm an attorney, and while IP and transactional work are NOT my field, I'll contribute whatever expertise I can.  (As an aside, I don't think the notion of suing NCSoft or threatening suit is a viable option.  The suit is unlikely to succeed, and because the likelihood of success is so low, it approaches being a frivolous suit.  (This IS something I know a lot about; I'm a law professor and have written on the subject of frivolous litigation.))  I'm also employed solely as a part-time academic, which gives me a fair amount of free time to contribute. 

Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is to let TonyV, who's managing the organizational side of this stuff, that I'm willing to help out.  Tony, please PM me here or on the official fora if you think there's somewhere I could be of use.

As a preliminary matter, it might be worth contacting someone at Paragon Studios and talking to Legal once the community has a better idea of how it wants to proceed.  It would be particularly helpful to know exactly what IP rights NCSoft purchased when it bought the development rights from Cryptic and if there are any restrictions they contain.  For example, if the deal contained something about NCSoft agreeing not to sell the rights for twenty years, any attempt to purchase them, by community or other publisher, is more or less dead in the water.

Anyway, feel free to ask for help, once some kind of plan is in place.  I promise nothing, but I'm happy to consider what I can.

laufeyjarson

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2012, 04:08:34 AM »
This option might be viable if we can acquire the IP rights to City of Heroes but not the software.  We could rebuild the server and use the IP rights to populate it with the characters, missions, stories, etc. that everyone is familiar with.  It would be a mostly transparent process, though it would probably take a while to get everything working on the back end.

Yes, I see that it's a valid idea there.  If we have rights, but no code, making it keep working gives a chance to do something better, and keep people playing.  That's valuable.  I was, honestly, discounting that option.  Perhaps prematurely.

I agree!  I've been saying for years that I wish they would incorporate more user-generated content into the canon of the game.  The usual response to that is two-fold: 1) user-generated content is usually not that good, and 2) there are legal ownership issues.  My response to those has always been: 1) I agree, but some of it is very good, and these gems should make it into the game, and 2) those are easily enough worked around with just a little bit of paperwork and motivation.

If it comes to the point where we have to create our content, either as new IP or as add-on content to IP we acquire, if we have control of the game, I would most certainly be open to user contributions to the game canon.  There are just too many talented and creative members of our community to bypass the goldmine of resources we'd have at our disposal.

Guy and Codewalker would have to be the ones handling this.  It's certainly not being ruled out, but new games are very expensive and very time-consuming to develop from scratch.  City of Heroes began development in 2001 and wasn't released until the middle of 2004.  If we absolutely, positively cannot work anything out and come to an impasse, I might be up for considering a crowd funded campaign to build a "spiritual successor" to City of Heroes.

This community waited for the game's initial release.  They drove Cryptic on through several false starts and pushed to see it come out at all.  It was sort of a miracle.  They absorbed change after change, noisily, but generally they stayed.  "The purple patch", "regen nerfs", "Defense adjustment", E. D, PVP re-vamps... and they asked for more.  They worked out new mechanics, and offered solutions to bugs.  If the answer is to tell the core, "The Phoenix Project Will Rise Again" and start work on a new engine... well, I think there's a bunch of people who'd be all for that.

While Paragon can copyright their IP, rules to games can't be copyrighted.  The community knows (sometimes better than the dev team) how things work, and can implement those same rules, or an improved variant of them.

How many creative players have written whole worlds for their backstories?  We absolutely could come up with a new universe of our own.

The software... well, I searched today and found an open source MMO toolkit.  Haven't downloaded it and looked at it in any detail today, but there's a server and a client both, all under the eminently usable MIT license.  I think we have an advantage over the original team that there's been almost ten more years of tools development.

All this being said, yes, it's still a huge amount of work.  Yes, it's still going to take a long time.  I don't know how to find all the right people we'd need - writers, designers, artists, programmers, testers - it's a really big task.

I don't think that makes it impossible, though.

I don't think it should be the first choice, but I don't want to see the naysayers run it over.  Perhaps even if another publisher does keep today's COH running, it should be considered anyway.  That way we, as the community, could make sure this never happens again.

I suspect I need to talk to Guy and Codewalker.  :)

Golden Girl

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2012, 05:35:25 AM »
Is there a possibility of using an open source code mmorpg with engines and then getting enough people to make a shadow version of CoH? 

I am doubting we would get access to the intellectual property, but if all the old players moved the community to something that was Super Hero based, maybe we could create our own CoH2.

This is something that I've been working on since the announcement - it's still the absolute last ditch option though - but it needs to be ready, just in case.
The idea would be to create a superhero setting that was as close to CoH as possible, but not breaking copyright - and the fact that so much of the CoH setting is built on classic comicbook themes makes it easier to get close to the CoH setting  without being accused of copyright.

Neither Cryptic or NCSoft invented fictional cities, alien invaders, Nazis, outlandish street gangs, fascists, secretive paramilitary groups, superhero teams, giant monsters, dimension devouring gods, over the top evil organizations, time travel, mirror universes, steampunk, anceint Rome, sinister magical cults, Greek, Celtic, Slavic and Middle Eastern mythology, insanely complicated schemes from villainous masterminds, corrupt corporations, fictional United Nations and Federal organizations, mutants, volcano bases, giant robots, zombies and many, many other things.

NCSoft might think that they can take everything from us, but they can't take the spirit of the digital world we all call home.
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emu265

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2012, 06:50:58 AM »
This is something that I've been working on since the announcement - it's still the absolute last ditch option though - but it needs to be ready, just in case.
The idea would be to create a superhero setting that was as close to CoH as possible, but not breaking copyright - and the fact that so much of the CoH setting is built on classic comicbook themes makes it easier to get close to the CoH setting  without being accused of copyright.

Neither Cryptic or NCSoft invented fictional cities, alien invaders, Nazis, outlandish street gangs, fascists, secretive paramilitary groups, superhero teams, giant monsters, dimension devouring gods, over the top evil organizations, time travel, mirror universes, steampunk, anceint Rome, sinister magical cults, Greek, Celtic, Slavic and Middle Eastern mythology, insanely complicated schemes from villainous masterminds, corrupt corporations, fictional United Nations and Federal organizations, mutants, volcano bases, giant robots, zombies and many, many other things.

NCSoft might think that they can take everything from us, but they can't take the spirit of the digital world we all call home.

I do not disagree with you, Golden Girl.  This is an attractive last ditch option.  However, moving a portion of the playerbase to a new MMO proves to be something of a problem.  While the developers of said MMO can avoid copyright in a technical sense, we may not be able to avoid a suit if people start calling it "CoH2" or any variant of that.  I'm not saying we would lose a lawsuit, but...  a lawsuit in general would create a headache that may cripple the game. 

This is all just conjecture, obviously.  But if we're serious about this option (i.e. making it ready), we need to consider any and all possible issues in full.

I do not know to what extent this is being done, so I apologize if this is been-there-heard-that to you.  I do like the idea :)

hd

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 07:21:37 AM »
If NCSoft's problems are much bigger than can be solved by the cashflow injection of up to 3 months' development time on CoH (one of their smaller revenue generators) then they may be hoping for the rest of their own rescue to come from their very next product releases. If that doesn't pan out then an appointed receiver might have a different perspective on what to make from the bits left lying around. Might make our prospects better, or might make them worse. Let's move swiftly but not burn any bridges. I really like the plans so far as presented by TonyV, and keep up the brainstorming. I especially like any ideas to avoid irreversible destruction of data.

laufeyjarson

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2012, 08:06:39 AM »
This is something that I've been working on since the announcement - it's still the absolute last ditch option though - but it needs to be ready, just in case.
The idea would be to create a superhero setting that was as close to CoH as possible, but not breaking copyright - and the fact that so much of the CoH setting is built on classic comicbook themes makes it easier to get close to the CoH setting  without being accused of copyright.

Like emu265, I don't think this is a bad option.

I think it can be let lie until other options have been exhausted.  The other things people are trying to do are clearly more direct solutions to the problem NCsoft has posed by announcing the closure if the game.

It may even be that the community should do both; get the game a new home to run for a while, and then start work on a replacement.  An open, community-driven replacement that isn't bound to the commercial vagaries of corporate needs and marketing.

It might also be a way to undo some of the potential story problems that CoH has accreted over the years.  Any story that has alternate universes or time travel is really easy to screw up.  CoH has had both for a long time, and has had several writers and teams responsible for them.  I actually can't think of any giant holes off the top of my head, which is darn impressive considering how many people have had their fingers in this storyline.  I'm sure if we go over to Paragon Wiki someone has a list.  :)

My point is that perhaps this isn't an either/or alternative.  Even if we get a stay of execution for CoH, that's all it might be.  A new place, with it's own goals and support might not have that concern.

I'm not going to push too hard on this; it's early days yet.  We're not even through the weekend after the announcement!  The community team working on reaching NCsoft hasn't had a chance to call during business hours.  Our letters haven't had a chance to hit the post.  Nothing to worry about and no reason to focus on this difficult task... yet.

However, if others are interested in talking about it, so would I.  I'm not sure the best place to do that without interrupting the more timely work that's going on right now.

Soundtrack

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 12:43:03 PM »
I'm hoping this is the correct place to brainstorm options and ideas.

This morning, as I was getting ready for my secret identity work (school teacher)... I thought that perhaps if NCSoft could see that we players want to help THEM, they might see things differently. That it's not "us vs. them", but that we're ready to play proverbial ball with them.

If, just if... we could maybe convince them to give us one year, we could double the customers. That would mean that each current paying customer would have one year to find just ONE more family member/co-worker/friend to sign on and become a paying customer. We could call it "A Year to Double" campaign. We wouldn't ask for comp time for either accounts (the giver or the recipient). Heck, I would even pay for my friend to play for the first month to get him hooked. (That's just the type of friend I am! ;) )

Of course, not everybody could find one person to play, but there are those of us who might be able to find MORE than one friend to play...and take up the slack. And yes, this could happen if those people who are able to financially handle it can purchase two accounts on their own. 2 x $15 = $30. A dollar a day to save this game? Yes... count me in. (And yes, I'm aware that people are on fixed incomes, so this suggestion isn't for everybody.)

That might just be appealing to the COH Powers-that-be. Give us a year and we'll double your income from this game. Or at least give us a year to show you we'll try our hardest to do that. :)

I understand it might not happen, and/or they might not go for it...but at the very least they'll see our commitment to a game that they were just going to toss in the recycle bin...(actually, the trash bin). They'll see that we want to play ball (as I mentioned) and the positive P.R. can't hurt them at this point, that's for sure.

And besides, would they rather our doubling efforts go towards them, or to their competitors?

Again, I'm just brainstorming. :)

TerryXY

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2012, 01:37:13 PM »
Hey all,

i just registered here because it is so overwhelming how everyone is so passioned to help. I can't believe CoH is going to shut down. I saw some of the options and i would love to help too. I'm working as a coder and also working with game engines. So i got plenty of experience i can share at this topic, i even contributed to the "CoH emu/S.E.G.S" long time ago, as a learning project for myself.

About the option to "re make" the game. It is definiately possible to re create such a big game, because we do have a concept, there is no need to re invent the wheel. There are plenty of free engines, which are up to date and can perform as good as the ones where you pay trillions of dollars for licensing. With a decent team of programmers, you could set up such "MMO Environment" withing a few months(if everyone can spare a few hours per day). Of course only basic gameplay. No such things as architect.
Creating the arts, the maps, missions, etc is what makes me worry. It takes a huge amount of time to recreate those things. But i don't see much of a problem if we are allowed to use the assets of CoH.

I would love to help working on such a big project. I'm pretty sure if this is the route to go, there will be a few more coders that would love to contribute and work on this game as an open source project or some kind.

Just my two cents!
(p.s. to the people who think it is not possible or atleast not possible to "re code" those mechanics within a few months, you are wrong! We don't have to create a new engine for this. There are many many open-source engines, that provides us with the tools to create such a MMO without spending millions of hours/money to create the basics)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 02:23:43 PM by TerryXY »

Talionis

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2012, 02:57:31 PM »
I do not disagree with you, Golden Girl.  This is an attractive last ditch option.  However, moving a portion of the playerbase to a new MMO proves to be something of a problem.  While the developers of said MMO can avoid copyright in a technical sense, we may not be able to avoid a suit if people start calling it "CoH2" or any variant of that.  I'm not saying we would lose a lawsuit, but...  a lawsuit in general would create a headache that may cripple the game. 

This is all just conjecture, obviously.  But if we're serious about this option (i.e. making it ready), we need to consider any and all possible issues in full.

I do not know to what extent this is being done, so I apologize if this is been-there-heard-that to you.  I do like the idea :)

The problem of it being informally called CoH2 isn't a terrible problem to overcome.  Truth is a defense, the player base of CoH built and would have to pay for a world "similar" to CoH because the owners of the original license stopped using the license.  The group (non-profit/outside company/group of people) who create the Mod of whatever free engine lurks out there could not use the title "City of Heroes" or "City of Heroes 2" (evidently NCSoft owns that license too), but so long as you don't use specific names like Freedom Phalanx most of the genres of the enemies and the world can be genericed and the intellectual property would not be invalidated. 

I don't want to say there isn't a fine line of how close can you get to the old COH before you violate a copyright.  Its something to stay aware of.  But I think the CoH community could do an awful lot to create a similar MMO to CoH that could be our CoH2, even if we can never call it that. 

I doubt we could port characters over.  In a lot of ways we would have to start fresh.  We may have to have slightly different leveling mechanics, but most of things super heroes do though are so similar that you can't copyright them.  They are public domain if you will.  This is a viable option.  --

Actually that makes me wonder if there isn't another company out there trying to make a Super Hero MMO that might not want the input from our community to build a game.  That might be the most logical option of all.  Create a council of top members from our community to go to a MMO studio and advise them on what worked best in our community.


ROBOKiTTY

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2012, 03:05:14 PM »
Have you played with a KiTTY today?

Mister Bison

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2012, 03:42:57 PM »
Yeeessss....

Paula

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Re: Planning: Identifying options
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2012, 03:57:55 PM »
I just wanted to say that I'm absolutely on board with whatever options this community moves forward with, because Titan Network has had my loyalty and trust for years.  I'm generally pretty keep-to-myself, but it finally occurred to me that giving a Thumbs Up wouldn't be distracting TonyV & crew from their work, since right now is when votes of support help keep that momentum... :D 

The first thing I did when I heard the news was come over here to see what Titan Network was doing about it, because my first thought was "Surely we have options, and surely Titan Network is all over them!"  You've never let me down, folks, and TonyV in particular is a true champion on this.  Professionalism, positivity, and cohesion all round.  Wherever this all goes, y'all have always had my back when I needed CoX info, and I'm stoked at the chance to help out in any way I can.  Yay us!

Much Love to All y'all...

Paula
(of the old Knowledge is Power Tips from the back pages of the original comic, an occasional COH-comic hosted on a dead ISP-account I can't access anymore, the AE Tutorial, and a couple story arcs that were decidedly less-well-received than the tutorial... ;) )