Call To Action: Get the word out

[No Remorse]

I think anything like this is bound to plateau.

Regardless, 15,000 people is TREMENDOUS... it's a statement in, and of, itself.

I'm sorry, I hate to be "this guy", but no it's not tremendous. It's 10 - 15% of the population of the game. They're not going to consider that players hold multiple accounts, they're going to take the amount of active accounts and divide it by the amount of people on the petition and they're going to make a judgment based on that. If they're willing to piss off 100% of their player base, why would they care what 10 - 15% wants?

This isn't like Firefly, they didn't know how many people were really into the show. NCSoft knows VERY WELL how many people they're cutting off based on their data (even though it's probably not completely accurate from the before mentioned players using multiple accounts). We need MORE signatures than they thought they had, not a percentage of what they were willing to lose before.

I'm sorry guys, I WANT to be positive but none of you are helping the cause by being completely unrealistic. If this was as big of an issue to everyeone, why is it that this effort is only now being put into bringing attention to the game? Why didn't anyone do this to try to increase the player base before to ensure the game would stay profitable? If we had done this from go, the game could have been kept safe from cancellation instead of trying to save it once cancellation has been announced. I applaud you guys and hope what you do works. Sorry if I pissed anyone off, I'm just a realist.

[NecrotechMaster]

its the fact we got that in a week and looking through some of the comments, there are bunches people who have signed who arent even coh players but still feel our cause is worth supporting

so just ncsoft assuming that everyone who signs the petition is a coh player is just another bad error on their part


yes 15k is kind of low assuming you look at all the accounts for the game, but the peitition has only been around for a week, the last few days its still been getting around 500 new signatures every 24 hours, if that continues for lets say another 7 days, thats 3500 more signatures, if this continues to keep pace its very likely to hit 20k or even more in the following weeks

[Vulpy]

NCSoft knows VERY WELL how many people they're cutting off based on their data (even though it's probably not completely accurate from the before mentioned players using multiple accounts).

It's not just about NCsoft, though. If I can present a document with approximately 15,000 people willing to pay $15 a month to another publisher, who won't have to spend any development or startup costs beyond purchasing an IP and codebase, that radically changes a cost/benefit analysis--that's approaching $3 million a year before we've even begun to consider the "casual" market, which CoH has historically been seen as very friendly to.

I'm a realist, too. I know what we're doing probably won't have the desired effect. But I also know that if we don't try, the odds of attaining the desired outcome drop dramatically. I'm willing to do what I can to maximize our chances.

[No Remorse]

It's not just about NCsoft, though. If I can present a document with approximately 15,000 people willing to pay $15 a month to another publisher, who won't have to spend any development or startup costs beyond purchasing an IP and codebase, that radically changes a cost/benefit analysis--that's approaching $3 million a year before we've even begun to consider the "casual" market, which CoH has historically been seen as very friendly to.

I'm a realist, too. I know what we're doing probably won't have the desired effect. But I also know that if we don't try, the odds of attaining the desired outcome drop dramatically. I'm willing to do what I can to maximize our chances.

OK, then let's keep up with the realism. $3m is nothing to these guys, or even another publisher. Anyone interested in buying the game will not be interested in having it remain at the level it's at. People keep assuming that the game is profitable, why? It's grossing less than $1 million per month, somewhere around $10 million per year. Once you divide that by the 80 + employees, rent / mortgage on a building or suite large enough to house that many people, utilities, bandwidth and other operational costs, I'm betting the game is barely breaking even. I'm willing to put a significant bet down that the game nets less than $2 million per year, probably less than $1 million. Why would someone gamble say $10 million buying the rights and operations on a $1 million per year return?

They won't. The logical decision for anyone interested is to either let the game simply break even and hope to recoupe their investment long term, or to acquire the game and put extra money into marketing to try to grow the player base. The other thing to look at is if this doesn't happen like immediately, then the game will have a transition period that will likely go past the game being cancelled, risking the game going black for a time. If this happens, you can't guarantee that ALL players will even come back. You also can't guarantee that all 15,000 people on the petition will even pay a subscription fee. How many of them are free players? How many of the are even real players instead of friends who were coherced into signing by a player?

It's not your perception or mine that will decide the game, it's NCSoft's and a potential buyer's. Investors want a return on investment (ROI). The question is can we even assure them of one? We're not going to change NCSoft's position on cancelling the game by showing them that a percentage of what they're willing to lose doesn't want to be lost. The only future I see is someone, individual or company, willing to take that risk. In this economy risk isn't the name of the game.

[Vulpy]

\The only future I see is someone, individual or company, willing to take that risk. In this economy risk isn't the name of the game.

Then, again, I reiterate: shouldn't we do what we can to maximize what chances we have if we want to see the game saved? I'm not lying to anyone: this is a long shot at best.

[dwturducken]

OK, numbers are being bandied about.  What I'm seeing is people getting discouraged, and that's fine.  It's healthy.  This has never been done before.  Then again, a group of people, meeting in secret, never developed a movement that was able to win a war for its own independence from the most powerful nation on earth and lay the foundations for a nation run by a form of government never before seen in human history.  And this is WAY easier than that, 'cause no one's going to hang us.

What I really wanted to post, though, was that I want to take Taki's primary two emblems, the ones for each of the original two sub-games but with the black mourning band through them, and print up a few dozen of each with a couple of modifications: I'm thinking about a 2 to 3 inch square "card" with one emblem or the other on an alignment-appropriate background color, and I'm going to add #SaveCoH in the band in a white game font (Red Circle, I believe).  I have to play with it in Photoshop for the background color.  Then, I'm going to start pinning them on bulletin boards around my college, the libraries, maybe the big one at the grocery store.

Thoughts, comments, or concerns? (Except for two: if you tell me I'm @#$%ing crazy, I'll just agree with you and continue along my merry way; if you tell me someone else is already doing it, I'll still continue but with far less self-congratulation at my own cleverness. )

[nataliaofvirtues]

I agree with you Vulpy. I think we all know it is a long shot at best, however, with all the attention being drawn to our situation, I feel that we may be able to increase the base of players. Someone that signs a petition only because they are a gamer from another platform or genre may very well want to check out what all the fuss is about. If we can interest or re-interest those gamers/people in City of Heroes then we possibly increase the potential for greater roi. At any rate I will continue to support the efforts here as long as there is a breath of life or a grain of hope. And I am also a realist.

[Paindancer]

Absolutely.

The more we can reach out beyond the COH poulation and get people to pick up the story, the better.

[TomFury]

I assumed that the petition was more about publicity. Sure, 15k does not a blockbuster make, but it's also 15k that - calmly, firmly- disagree with this decision, the manner in which it was done, and (if you choose to interpret it this way) contest the sunsetting of MMO's in general.  The entire, "If it's digital property, is it right to deny people of it?" question. If I was NCSoft or one of their investors, I'd have to weigh the potential financial status quo and/or sale of the IP versus the bad publicity and erosion of good will. Also, it gives those devs that are talking to NCSoft and their investors something to use.

[Heraclea]

I saw nothing recent about CoH ON THE DeviantART forums, so I posted there myself, with links to Titan and the main petition. 

N. B. my DeviantART site is quite unsafe for work.  FWIW, for the foreseeable future I will be uploading pinups of Heraclea and other CoH characters primarily to dA.  I have added links to Titan to all of the relatively family safe art that was inspired by CoH. 

[Soundtrack]

yup, and in only 1 week too, i can see it continuing to grow as well

in the last 10 hours or so it has gone up about 250 signatures still (last check was around 3 am eastern time which it had about 14500)

In the words of the eternal scribe:

Woot!

Very cool indeed!

I think I'm going to post something on my Facebook page:

"You all know me as a big kid at heart. Well, this big kid needs your big help. 'City of Heroes', a game I love to play is at danger of closing down. Please consider signing the following petition and keep the streets of my video world safe! Thank you very much and feel free to share the link with any other "kids at heart" in your life! "

[No Remorse]

In the words of the eternal scribe:

Woot!

Very cool indeed!

I think I'm going to post something on my Facebook page:

"You all know me as a big kid at heart. Well, this big kid needs your big help. 'City of Heroes', a game I love to play is at danger of closing down. Please consider signing the following petition and keep the streets of my video world safe! Thank you very much and feel free to share the link with any other "kids at heart" in your life! "

I'm sorry but THIS is what I was talking about. People signing a petition for a game they have no intention of playing actually detracts from the message. The message is that the people on the petition want the game to stay, and if we were to use those numbers to try to solicit the company to either keep the game online or consider to sell, and to use the numbers to seduce a would be buyer, then muddying the waters by getting anyone willing to take 5 seconds to sign it isn't going to help. The petition becomes unreliable and no longer stands for potential income. It's just reduced to a plea for publicity.

In the CoX forums someone posted graphs of NCSoft's income based on region and then game. We were a "low hanging fruit". We need to be made higher. The Devs have said all renewals have been ceased, and I'm not sure if all billing has been disabled, but if we can't even get more people to join the game, showing an increase in profits based on our marketing attempts, it's going to be a hard sell at best.

I think the kickstart idea is the most plausible IF NCSoft is willing to play ball. Most if not ALL of our efforts should be towards this goal right now. 15,000 people willing to put $100 towards this is $1.5 million. If we could raise that, then someone could use it as seed money to finance the purchase. Empty promises aren't going to do it. Tony if you read this, approaching with empty pockets isn't going to get their attention. We have to start getting the money together or we won't look credible. If we approach them with an empty offer then they won't entertain another from us.

[Paula]

First of all, re the Wikipedia edit, the Adult Swim bumps, the CNN iReports, the banners, the everything...  Absofreakinghugely AWESOME.  Thank you SO MUCH for all y'all doing what y'all have done!  I just don't feel like I've been able to do that much to help, so this inspires me to work extra hard at trying to whip folks up at the Unity Rally.

As for "what good will this do"...  As I understand it, folks from Paragon Studios are working hard to pursue options to get investors and NCSoft to support them setting up shop to continue the game under their management.  Player efforts like this go a long way toward helping those investors come to the table, as I understand it.

Over and above that, TonyV has been reaching out to see if we can have an option to purchase the IP & related licenses, etc., which would lead to crowdfunding efforts to hit the number quoted.  Efforts like these keep the momentum for that possible future.

Right now though, there's just not much nailed down regarding what those two above options might be entailing, details about how we can make them happen, and so on.  There's also other potential buyers, etc., who could get wind of this level of dedication and make their own determinations as to what it would cost for them to pick up the game, and the resulting benefits...

Long story short (cause I've got to go) ... EVERY POSITIVE EFFORT HELPS.  Every single one.  In this "black box" phase of negotiating possible timelines, it's the continual Random Acts of Solidarity that make the biggest difference.

[emu265]

First of all, re the Wikipedia edit, the Adult Swim bumps, the CNN iReports, the banners, the everything...  Absofreakinghugely AWESOME.  Thank you SO MUCH for all y'all doing what y'all have done!  I just don't feel like I've been able to do that much to help, so this inspires me to work extra hard at trying to whip folks up at the Unity Rally.

As for "what good will this do"...  As I understand it, folks from Paragon Studios are working hard to pursue options to get investors and NCSoft to support them setting up shop to continue the game under their management.  Player efforts like this go a long way toward helping those investors come to the table, as I understand it.

Over and above that, TonyV has been reaching out to see if we can have an option to purchase the IP & related licenses, etc., which would lead to crowdfunding efforts to hit the number quoted.  Efforts like these keep the momentum for that possible future.

Right now though, there's just not much nailed down regarding what those two above options might be entailing, details about how we can make them happen, and so on.  There's also other potential buyers, etc., who could get wind of this level of dedication and make their own determinations as to what it would cost for them to pick up the game, and the resulting benefits...

Long story short (cause I've got to go) ... EVERY POSITIVE EFFORT HELPS.  Every single one.  In this "black box" phase of negotiating possible timelines, it's the continual Random Acts of Solidarity that make the biggest difference.

Well said, Paula.  We know too little to be making decisions on our focus, so we need to keep pushing forward as hard as we can with just about everything.  If it's positive, it's helping in some way.

[elizibar]

Well I don't expect anything to come from it, but I did contact my Senators and Representative (along with the delegation from California and Washington since that's where the companies are located) with a polite if slightly hyperbolic e-mail (quoted below).

I'm writing to inform you of the actions of a foreign corporation named NCSoft.  This company sells entertainment products in stores in Kentucky and across the entire United States via the internet.  They own a subsidiary company in California called Paragon Studios.

Recently NCSoft suffered financial losses of several million dollars.  In order to somehow save Korean jobs they have shut down their American subsidiary, Paragon Studios, costing America 80 good paying jobs in the Technology sector.  Paragon Studios by all news accounts was turning a profit for NCSoft.

Should we just let foreign companies close profitable American firms and cost us jobs without a protest?  It's a scandal when an American firm closes a profitable branch, so shouldn't there be an investigation into just what it is that NCSoft is up to?  It doesn't make sense to close profit-generating branches of a company when you're already running at a deficit.

If I may, I'd like to suggest a congressional investigation into this act of economic sabotage against the American people by a foreign corporation.

It probably won't do any good, but if just one of those Congressmen has his secretary send out a letter to NCSoft asking what the deal is, it will help apply some subtle pressure on our Korean overlords.  Maybe.  Like I said, probably won't do much since this is a little out of congressional purview, but in these times of economic hardship it might get some traction for the purposes of electioneering.  And maybe someone else will want to give it a shot now that I mention I've done this.

edit:  And if you do want to do this, your congressional delegation can be found with ease and contacted through their online web forms:  http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm   http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

[Abraham Lincoln]

I recently passed along an email to Giant Bomb's Patrick Klepek, who's the resident news guy at that site. They already ran the standard issue article about the closure and plan to livestream the game shutting down on November 30th as well. I basically informed him about the fan efforts, the rumors of the closure that were debunked, and the efforts from the Titan folks here. He emailed me back saying thanks, and that he would look into it further.

Might just show up in the weekly "worth reading" column lumped in with other smaller stories (or not at all, I have no idea), but it's certainly better than nothing.

I also shot an email to the folks over at Rooster Teeth with similar information. Only really considered them because of their work on Captain Dynamic. Haven't heard back from them at all, so I'm guessing that's a no-go. It might show up on their weekly gaming news/info short show "AHWU" at the very least lumped in with other general news.

[Golden Girl]

as long as its not flaming and stuff all is fair in love and war

we dont want to get ncsoft mad because then they might be less receptive to the idea of selling the rights of the game

we all have been doing a very good job of keeping mostly mild mannered reports and stuff, it would still be nice to hear some statement from at least ncsoft about it though

My idea was for this simple message:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear NCSoft,

This is your official website:

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/aboutus/visiongoals.aspx

This is your official mission statement:

"The ultimate mission of NCSoft is to make each and everyone on earth happier. That is, to make people's lives more enjoyable"

Please make the lives of "City of Heroes" players happier and more enjoyable by selling the game instead of shutting it down.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By putting the link in the message, it lets everyone see the corporate insanity of the webpage, as well as confirming that the quoted mission statement is true.

It's an all-purpose protest message that can be used to bomb NCSoft's various Facebook pages, as well as be used in comment sections on any news site articles about our fight.

[dwturducken]

Don't want to distract from GG, and I'm not sure where else to put this, but the petition is only 7 away from 15K.

Make that 6.

[emu265]

Don't want to distract from GG, and I'm not sure where else to put this, but the petition is only 7 away from 15K.

Make that 6.

15,000

[emu265]

My idea was for this simple message:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear NCSoft,

This is your official website:

http://global.ncsoft.com/global/aboutus/visiongoals.aspx

This is your offical mission statement:

"The ultimate mission of NCSoft is to make each and everyone on earth happier. That is, to make people's lives more enjoyable"

Please make the lives of "City of Heroes" players happier and more enjoyable by selling the game instead of shutting it down.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By putting the link in the message, it lets everyone see the corporate insanity of the webpage, as well as confirming that the quoted mission statement is true.

It's an all-purpose protest message that can be used to bomb NCSoft's various Facebook pages, as well as be used in comment sections on any news site articles about our fight.

This is good, I like it.

It's not hateful or disrespectful, merely asking them to comply with their own guidelines.