Tyrant and ED have got to go

[Aggelakis]

To differentiate between "Enhancement Diversification" as a system and "Enhancement Diminishing Returns" as a part of that system suggests that there are other parts to the system, of which there are none.

Considering Taosin never said that EDR "is a part of" ED, that's wonderful. Taosin suggests that EDR is the "result" or "effect" of ED, which does not suggest thatt here are other parts to ED.

In any case, my stance is still pro-ED.

[GuyPerfect]

Nitpicking at vocabulary? Then let's nitpick at grammar.

Every effect has a cause; each is a reaction of something else. If Enhancement Diminishing Returns is the effect, then what's the cause? Enhancement Diversification doesn't mean anything by this definition, because the diminishing returns is the only tangible concept that even exists in all of this.

Diminishing returns is a cause, certainly, which results in diminished returns. But that still leaves "Enhancement Diversification" floating out there in la-la land where it doesn't have a meaning. However, I remind you that it does have a meaning in the minds of people: that it refers to Enhancement Diminishing Returns specifically.

[eabrace]

"Enhancement Diversification" makes perfect sense if you were playing the game prior to the introduction of the system.  Until that point, you six-slotted Stamina with Endurance Recovery, six-slotted powers like Temporary Invulnerability with Damage Resistance, six-slotted Hasten with Recharge Reduction...

When the system was introduced, it forced players to diversify their enhancements.  Since it was a waste to use six slots for the same enhancement in each power, players had to start thinking more about what to do with those extra three slots.

Diminishing returns are just a mathematic mechanical component of the overall system.

[GuyPerfect]

There you go using the word "component." Now you gotta name the other component(s). (-:

[eabrace]

There's at least a major PR component to the system.  :)

[Fleeting Whisper]

I get the impression that they don't like the term anymore.

Sucks to be them, then. They shouldn't have used 'ED' for five years.

[GuyPerfect]

I agree!

[GuyPerfect]

The Issue 20 Overview page makes reference to "Marauder" and "Mother Mayhem," but consistently uses "Emperor Cole," leaving "Tyrant" nowhere to be found.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Zombie Man]

The Issue 20 Overview page makes reference to "Marauder" and "Mother Mayhem," but consistently uses "Emperor Cole," leaving "Tyrant" nowhere to be found.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Because when our super-powered selves have to battle them, then they're called by their supers name, not by what the citizens call them. When the time comes to battle Cole, I'm sure he'll be called 'Tyrant.'

If this was a DCUO game crossing over into Marvel universe we wouldn't have pages detailing the supered exploits of Clark Kent and Logan, it would be Superman and Wolverine.

[GuyPerfect]

When the time comes to battle Cole, I'm sure he'll be called 'Tyrant.'

I wouldn't be so sure about that one. I'm willing to put real money down on him being called Cole if and when we ever do fight him.

If this was a DCUO game crossing over into Marvel universe we wouldn't have pages detailing the supered exploits of Clark Kent and Logan, it would be Superman and Wolverine.

That's true, and unrelated. The point here is that "Tyrant" has been retconned; he's only called that in passing now, and it's clear the devs are going to be calling him Emperor Cole from here on out.

[Sleepykitty]

*lobs pillow*

@.@ can we at least wait till the issue's live before starting this again? We haven't even met the guy in the upper echelons recently to see what the new version of him will be once his bid for omni-dimensional conquest has started. With the power of the well and all, he might even have a new spiffier name, emperor is such a minor title for someone who's claiming to rule all of creation.

[Zombie Man]

The Issue 20 Overview page makes reference to "Marauder" and "Mother Mayhem," but consistently uses "Emperor Cole," leaving "Tyrant" nowhere to be found.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

The Devs have and are referring to Cole as Tyrant in and out of the game. The whole "Cole" language is role-playing the name he uses for his own citizens. It shows up a lot in the role-played propaganda. It shows up a lot in-game because most of the citizenry and even his most of his own Loyalists don't know his true nature: Tyrant.

But thanks to Golden Girl, let's review the history:

Tin Mage Mk II TF:

Director 11: You'll... never win the war...

        even if Tyrant is defeated...
        one of you will... rise to... replace him...


===========


Prometheus in I20 Sneak Peek:

"The most immediate challenge humanity faces is that presented by Tyrant. Even though the path of the Incarnate has been opened to innumerable heroes, The Well of the Furies believes that it requires a champion. It has tested each of those who have come before you, and found each candidate wanting. Statesman, Lord Recluse, Reichsman, many others... none have proven themselves worthy to be the Well's champion. None, that is, until Tyrant.

Tyrant has given himself over to the Well's influence so thoroughly that it is almost as if he has become the Well in the flesh. He has been granted ever greater power by the Well, and as his dominion over Praetoria expands, so too does the Well's favor. It is now to the point where the favor of the Well extends even to his lieutenants, making them mightier foes than you may recall from past encounters.

Tyrant will soon be nigh unstoppable, at which point his fate, and the fate of humanity, will be sealed. Whether he is consumed by the Well, or simply remains its servant matters not, for neither would have the strength to stave off the greater threats that loom in the future."

"What you must do is bring the war Tyrant has already initiated to its conclusion. You must persist in bringing the assault to Praetoria. You must destroy his ability to wage war across the dimensions. You must eliminate his control over his people. You must free his world from his iron grip. You must do all this, and you must do it while not sacrificing their world to the Hamidon."


==========


On June 10th, 2010, John "Protean" Hegner gave an interview to Massively.com, where he said:

Quote:
"Tyrant needed to be someone that people could empathize with, despite the fact that he was a villain. We made Tyrant into a version of Statesman who believed a little less in the inherent good in people, and a little more in his own. This minute change was all it took for Primal Earth's greatest hero to become Praetoria Earth's greatest villain."


===========


On January 22nd, 2010, the GR website got its first big update with Tyrant's bio, which ended with:

Quote:
"Emperor Cole is a savior, but his story has more to it than what is written in history books. Most citizens of Praetorian Earth respect him or love him. Some who know the truth fear him, and fewer still dare to stand against his lies. No matter what he is called officially and publicly, no one can stop the hushed whispers in the streets and back alleys of his empire. There he is called by another name: Tyrant."


========


On October 24th 2009, at Hero Con, we got the first major info dump about Praetoria at the Going Rogue presentation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33ko78TeO5I

Highlights from the presentaion include:

Quote:
"Emperor Cole is an actual tyrant, and he's doing things to humanity and the freedoms that we're losing because of this".

"The real threat is not the Resistance, it's the Praetorian Police Department, and Clockwork and the Seers and the Praetorian Guard...and the Powers Division, who kill more than the other four combined."

And that "1984"Brave New World" and Fahrenheit 451" were used as inspiration for Praetoria.


=========


On May 11th, 2009, we first heard about GR via the semi-leak of the e-mails announcing it being sent out slightly early. The next day, the official press release came out, which said:

Quote:
"In the Going Rogue expansion, hero and villain characters will become immersed in the new parallel universe known as Praetoria, which is governed by Tyrant, the evil incarnation of the game's main protagonist, Statesman."

[GuyPerfect]

The whole "Cole" language is role-playing the name he uses for his own citizens.

That's an odd thing to suggest. I had no idea his birth certificate said "Tyrant" on it. I always assumed it was "Marcus Cole." You know... his name. His identity. The thing he is called.

But thanks to Golden Girl, let's review the history:

In each and every single thing you quoted, it's someone who doesn't like the guy referring to him by a pet name. I get it. You don't like Cole. You'd rather call him Tyrant.

You can make up names for people as often as you want. For example, I hereby christen you Bean Brain. And I can convince other people to call you Bean Brain too. In fact, I can even change your forum handle to Bean Brain. But would that mean you're not Zombie Man? Chew on that one for a while.

The character in question has two "official" names in the game lore, and by that I mean things that appear on legal documents. One of them is Marcus Cole, and the other is Emperor. Any other documents containing references to him simply call him T3H_DEV1L, but it's hard to take that seriously as what he should be called.

[Zombie Man]

Your whole point was "but the Devs don't call him Tyrant anymore!"

I showed they do. In and out of the game.

[GuyPerfect]

My whole argument is "we should call him Cole, not Tyrant"

[Fleeting Whisper]

Why should we call him Cole, when the character has been called Tyrant in the game and by the devs for years, and continues to be called such today?

[TonyV]

I think that both names are equally valid, and for that matter, that people arguing on both sides have equally valid points.  Ça m'est égal.  You can play the game as one character and very rarely run across the name "Tyrant," and likewise, you can play the game as another character and very rarely run across the name "Emperor Cole."  As long as one links to the other, I'm happy.

[Diellan]

I simply feel that Tyrant is a bit less ambiguous. Statesman is also Marcus Cole, so unless you use the full title of Emperor Cole, you'd have to determine from context which one you want (and that you may not always have).

[Sleepykitty]

o.o its more as, to be absolutely correct with the Marcus Cole issue, we'd have to rename at least 3 articles and possibly more later on as alt versions show. This change would require us to make: Marcus Cole (Statesman), Marcus Cole (Tyrant), Marcus Cole (Reichsman)...


>_> we should at least probably include a link on each of their pages to the disambiguation page for Marcus Cole though... We'll probably be seeing the Shadow Shard version before to long

[WanderingAries]

It may just be me (now living in the land of old people the last couple years), but reading the title made me wonder how Tyrant == ED?

Is somebody trying to say that Cole is shooting blanks? Should somebody call Bob Dole for a referal?