Author Topic: Rethinking Hero/Villain/Praetorian categories  (Read 3438 times)

Sekoia

  • Titan Network Admin
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,848
Rethinking Hero/Villain/Praetorian categories
« on: October 01, 2010, 02:42:20 PM »
A lot of our categories are organized as "Hero ___", "Villain ___", and "Praetorian ___". However, the meaning of these categories is broken.

Consider:
Questing Badge is listed as Hero and Villain
Prepared Badge is listed as Praetorian
If you start as a Hero or Villain, you can earn Questing by earning 1000 badges. If you start as Praetorian, you can earn Prepared by earning 1000 badges. These are two distinct badges. (Unlike other badges that are aliases for one another.) They cannot be earned unless you start as the right faction.

Consider:
Ambitious Badge is listed as Praetorian
Sparky Badge is listed as Hero and Villain
Ambitious is found in Praetoria, which is likely the only reason that it's Praetorian-only. If they open Praetoria up to Heroes and Villains, they'll probably be able to earn this badge as-is. Sparky can be earned by anyone, regardless of their origin.

Consider:
Positon's Ally Badge is listed as Hero
Positron's Betrayer Badge is listed as Villain
These are both the same badge; they are merely aliases. A character of any alignment origin (Hero, Villain, Praetorian) can earn either one. The name changes based on your current alignment.

So depending on context, "Hero ____" can mean "This is only accessible to those who started the game as a Hero"; "This is accessible to any character who at some point becomes a Hero"; or "This is the name for this badge when worn by someone whose current alignment is Hero". Similar for Villain and Praetorian.

It's also worth pointing out that the vast, vast majority of badges now can be earned by both hero and villain. The former division by Hero and Villain was helpful because most badges were one-side-only. Now that both can earn most, that division is less useful. Perhaps categories like "Hero Exploration Badges" should be reserved for those badges that are only available to heroes, while "Exploration Badges" can be used for those available to everyone. Why divide things that need not be divided?

I honestly don't have any good suggestions on how to fully resolve all this, but I think it's something we should think about.

eabrace

  • Titan Moderator
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,292
Re: Rethinking Hero/Villain/Praetorian categories
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 06:38:14 PM »
I think we started out with "This is only accessible to those who started the game as a Hero" and very quickly ended up with "This is the name for this badge when worn by someone whose current alignment is Hero."  I've tried correcting categorization toward the latter where I've seen inconsistencies.

Since Praetorians are neither Hero nor Villain, and there are badges that can be earned prior to choosing Hero or Villain and leaving Praetoria, I think we still need all three categories.

At the moment, almost all of the Praetorian badges are only available to Praetorians, but will remain with the character when they leave Praetoria.  They should probably be tagged with Hero and Villain in addition to Praetorian.

On the flip side, there are definitely badges that cannot be earned prior to choosing either Hero or Villain and leaving Praetoria at level 20.  Those definitely should not be tagged with the Praetorian category unless the next patch allows Praetorians to leave without choosing a side.

(I just really hope they don't add alternate names for Loyalist/Resistance characters.)

In the case of badges that can only be earned by characters that start as Hero/Villain or Praetorian, we can add a note stating something like:

Quote
This badge is only available to characters created as either Hero or Villain.  It is not available to characters created in Praetoria.

Or

Quote
This badge is only available to characters created in Praetoria.  It is not available to characters created as either Hero or Villain.

It's also worth pointing out that the vast, vast majority of badges now can be earned by both hero and villain. The former division by Hero and Villain was helpful because most badges were one-side-only. Now that both can earn most, that division is less useful. Perhaps categories like "Hero Exploration Badges" should be reserved for those badges that are only available to heroes, while "Exploration Badges" can be used for those available to everyone. Why divide things that need not be divided?

I can tell you from experience (last night's scrub through CIT) that being able to see all of the Hero Exploration badges or all of the Villain Exploration badges in single categories without seeing both at the same time is immensely beneficial on several levels.  :)
Titan Twitter broadcasting at 5.000 mWh and growing.
Titan Facebook

Paragon Wiki admin
I was once being interviewed by Barbara Walters...In between two of the segments she asked me..."But what would you do if the doctor gave you only six months to live?" I said, "Type faster." - Isaac Asimov

taosin

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 245
Re: Rethinking Hero/Villain/Praetorian categories
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 04:41:48 AM »
[...] If they open Praetoria up to Heroes and Villains, they'll probably be able to earn this badge as-is. [...]

As of I19, Praetoria will be accessible to all via Pocket D. "Primal Earth Characters Can Enter Praetoria. Non-Praetorians can journey to Praetoria through Pocket D. " (if they have the Going Rogue expansion, from here).

Which reminds me, it's time to put the I19 news on the front page of the wiki?

eabrace

  • Titan Moderator
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,292
Re: Rethinking Hero/Villain/Praetorian categories
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2010, 05:31:06 AM »
Indeed it is.  I probably would have done that by now, but man, I was swamped today.  (And just finished checking out the settitle numbers - and need to head to bed.)
Titan Twitter broadcasting at 5.000 mWh and growing.
Titan Facebook

Paragon Wiki admin
I was once being interviewed by Barbara Walters...In between two of the segments she asked me..."But what would you do if the doctor gave you only six months to live?" I said, "Type faster." - Isaac Asimov

eabrace

  • Titan Moderator
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,292
Re: Rethinking Hero/Villain/Praetorian categories
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2010, 06:09:24 PM »
There we go.  I19 Features announcement has been added to the news items.
Titan Twitter broadcasting at 5.000 mWh and growing.
Titan Facebook

Paragon Wiki admin
I was once being interviewed by Barbara Walters...In between two of the segments she asked me..."But what would you do if the doctor gave you only six months to live?" I said, "Type faster." - Isaac Asimov