Author Topic: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release  (Read 270410 times)

Vee

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #120 on: April 17, 2019, 02:26:33 AM »
And there's the thread, made back in 2013, of someone inparticular outright saying why we wouldn't have server emulation.

There's a lot of lying going on here.

Need to reread that thread, as it explains that emulation isn't even something we should want. The private server's not an emulation, the hopefully soon-to-be-public code isn't an emulation. Knowing what we know now and looking back at that thread it seems to me Leandro was being quite careful not to mislead.

saipaman

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #121 on: April 17, 2019, 02:27:27 AM »
What really bothers me is all the anniversary badges I missed.

What bother's me is that we almost certainly helped name them.

Super Atom

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #122 on: April 17, 2019, 02:27:44 AM »
Need to reread that thread, as it explains that emulation isn't even something we should want. The private server's not an emulation, the hopefully soon-to-be-public code isn't an emulation. Knowing what we know now and looking back at that thread it seems to me Leandro was being quite careful not to mislead.

TOO CAREFUL! jk but yeah no emulation isn't what would be right for a CoH server.

Voltixdark

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #123 on: April 17, 2019, 02:27:50 AM »
O hai! What's new?

Read the news today. What a disaster. Prayers and thoughts go to the people of France! No wait, the disaster was reddit/cityofheroes. Wow. Take the angriest post here so far in this thread and multiply it by a thousand and you get the average anger level there.

But what really bothers me about this is Leo never invited me!!

Just kidding. What really bothers me is all the anniversary badges I missed.

You know I do wonder if anniversary badges would have continued to be earned for being active and such.

Kistulot

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #124 on: April 17, 2019, 02:27:53 AM »
Another example is Kistulot mocking the thread from 2013 by Leandro regarding why the community wouldn't want a server *emulator*.   If one were to re-read it with a cooler,  rational mind, it would be very clear to see it wan't gaslighting, but a very articulate vision statement.

When that's all he said on the subject, and then has had this for six years, I don't care if it was accurate, it's him being just great to all of us.

But thanks for calling me a troll who has no investment.

Theres a whole slew of people using terms like "You don't understand" or "You're just trolls" very suddenly. Everyone has the right to their opinion on this matter as long as its kept civil and i think everyone here (except that one guy who said ban him) has done so. This is all starting to feel a lot like another effort to discredit.

This this this.
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saipaman

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #125 on: April 17, 2019, 02:27:59 AM »
I volunteer to edit that person's grammar!

Educate me!

saipaman

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #126 on: April 17, 2019, 02:29:16 AM »
The other big news today was the Avengers data dump.   

Ohioknight

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #127 on: April 17, 2019, 02:30:14 AM »

 From other accounts, leaks etc the server is not stitched together and works perfectly. I'm unsure how or why you've made this claim but again, if you aren't on the team this seems like a very misleading assumption.


Well if the server is not stitched together and works perfectly... THEN IT'S NOT THE SYSTEM PARAGON STUDIOS WAS RUNNING.  We know from the extensive discussions from people who worked on those systems that they were multiple systems tied into each other with weird patches to make different features work.  If Leandro has a simple server that runs the game then it really IS completely reverse engineered and not something he got leaked by somebody who worked for NCSoft.   
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Vee

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #128 on: April 17, 2019, 02:32:12 AM »


When you're still in testing phases to make servers work, you don't create and insert brand new archetypes and zones, abilities, or cash shops. To say that this project is still in development o the point of the servers being "stitched together" would be silly and expecting people to believe it even more so.


I'm not a programmer but I'd imagine if you're working to create a better server client that would allow for new things to be added you'd first want to figure out how the original client dealt with new things.

Super Atom

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2019, 02:32:53 AM »
Well if the server is not stitched together and works perfectly... THEN IT'S NOT THE SYSTEM PARAGON STUDIOS WAS RUNNING.  We know from the extensive discussions from people who worked on those systems that they were multiple systems tied into each other with weird patches to make different features work.  If Leandro has a simple server that runs the game then it really IS completely reverse engineered and not something he got leaked by somebody who worked for NCSoft.

I'm unsure if anyone has made the claim he's done nothing. Of course he reverse engineered the code. Of course he's probably put a lot of time and effort into making it operational. The problem people have is they want him to release his code so everyone else can play too.

Super Atom

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #130 on: April 17, 2019, 02:35:56 AM »
I'm not a programmer but I'd imagine if you're working to create a better server client that would allow for new things to be added you'd first want to figure out how the original client dealt with new things.

Maybe. Guess we won't know for sure because its a closed development for the last 6 years. We only have information provided by a leak and in that information it sure didn't look like it was still a WIP.

Kistulot

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #131 on: April 17, 2019, 02:39:56 AM »
Maybe. Guess we won't know for sure because its a closed development for the last 6 years. We only have information provided by a leak and in that information it sure didn't look like it was still a WIP.

People I've talked to said it was fully functional, they just got bored of not having their friends on the server.
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P51mus

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #132 on: April 17, 2019, 02:42:46 AM »
Really.  You're going to run a wide open server.  And you'll let everybody on.  10,000 users... 50,000 users... nobody turned away?  And you know the servers will handle that?  You're going to set up the servers and keep them running?  You're going to handle support and maintenance? If it can't handle the load you're going to decide when and how to turn people away?

Leandro is an expert who has lived this stuff, and his development system was running a few hundred accounts concurrently (which is DAMN impressive).  How easy do you think it is to run CoX?

See, thing is, if the code were more openly available there'd be a bunch of private servers running.  Some of them would be open, some of them would be more private.  It wouldn't just be one person running a server.  That's how most private servers for MMOs are.

And if it was anything like what I know about the Ragnarok Online private server community (my info on this is way out of date), then they'd be sharing tweaks they've made among the private servers so that any fixes one person made could be used by others.  (At the time there were actually two different types of private servers for RO, one that was an emulated server and another that was based off of leaked/hacked official server code)

weenus

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #133 on: April 17, 2019, 02:43:42 AM »

See,  this is the kind of cynical comment from several people in the last few pages of this thread that have convinced me there are some here actively trolling the community, or have become "useful idiots" to those trolls.   


Another example is Kistulot mocking the thread from 2013 by Leandro regarding why the community wouldn't want a server *emulator*.   If one were to re-read it with a cooler,  rational mind, it would be very clear to see it wan't gaslighting, but a very articulate vision statement.


Unfortunately,  I think some are preying on the pain of the CoH community for fun,  fanning the flames of discontent and conspiracy in a 4chan-esque manner.  I appreciate the goals of the moderation team and don't envy their task,  but I think a lot more of these posts should be deleted.

Making a joke is not fanning the flames, it's making a joke.

I apologize for being cynical, but it's about all I can be because the entire situation is extremely cynical. It feels as though the overall CoX community has had a pretty clear caste system in play with what is more or less, a first class citizen group who invited who they deemed worth from the unwashed masses. It's frustrating to say the least.

There are aspects that I completely understand, and there are aspects of it that were extremely cynical on the part of those involved, such as people who are in the know about an actively working private server enforcing "no private server discussion" on forums and subreddits, people actively involved in running SCoRE being involved in other efforts that have existed as little more than a placating romparoom for the members of this community not deemed worthy of access to the actual game...

the entire thing is very cynical, from top to bottom, and I simply do not have access to the sort of medication that can help me see it differently, and let me make it clear, I don't think I've ever done anything worthy of being invited, I stopped participating in the community as a whole when the game died and only occasionally pop in to places like this and the subreddit to see if any of the emulation efforts have made any kind of encouraging progress and I'm almost routinely disappointed when I do. What bums me out is seeing people who have clearly been more active right on these very forums who didn't get the nod, that breaks my heart knowing that even if I was active still I likely couldn't have sat at the cool kids table for a MMO that I loved for many years and have spent nearly as many years missing it.

The most cynical aspect is the stuff where they've said "We were going to run a public event but you all ruined it by learning about us". That is... unbelievable in lieu of this entire meltdown.

So honestly my bad, but straight up, it's hard to respond to this with anything other than cynicism especially when you see people posting "Wow even though I can't play and I might not ever be able to play, at least SOMEONE was getting to enjoy the game!" comments, it just seems like pretty blatant brown nosing, and I can barely even blame them because it seems to be about the only realistic hope the majority of the displaced CoX fanbase may have of every playing again.

Angel Phoenix77

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #134 on: April 17, 2019, 02:47:50 AM »
That is the problem isn't it.

When you have the chance to do something selfless or to keep it for yourself - what would you do? I think i would get a few people in the world of computing and have them make a launcher that could be hosted on a standard gaming server (www.serversaustralia.com.au/resources/blog/beginners-guide-to-setting-up-a-private-wow-server/) where you can normally rent them for about 1 American dollar per slot a month. If you wanted an entire server you might be able to work a discount.

Now what happens?

That is going to be up to NCSoft and the owners of the private server. If they want to contact me - I retire in August and would be happy to try hosting a wide open server that could test the limits of NCSofts patience and I would in fact have wide open books so they could see I make zero profit - but have a donation page that will give all extra funds beyond running expenses to them in a monthly check. This MIGHT allow some leeway on our behalf.

That would be awesome, one suggestion. If you do manage to host, please dont use Tequila as a way to distribute the launcher. I would suggest GitHub. Just an idea. Also good luck with retiring you earned it :)
One day the Phoenix will rise again.

saipaman

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #135 on: April 17, 2019, 02:48:17 AM »
Cynicism is what sets us apart from the other animals, except for cats, I think cynicism drives their every action.

Twi

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #136 on: April 17, 2019, 03:01:11 AM »
How easy do you think it is to run CoX?

Dunno. Maybe if they spread the code I'll let you know once I see it.
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Kistulot

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #137 on: April 17, 2019, 03:07:10 AM »
Dunno. Maybe if they spread the code I'll let you know once I see it.

THIS, because you know who would try to figure it out?

All of us, even without any base knowledge.
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Eiko-chan

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #138 on: April 17, 2019, 03:10:13 AM »
Hi. You probably don't know me. I'm a loudmouth.

The only bitterness this news has brought up is renewed bitterness at NCSoft for their petty refusal to sell an IP they had deemed not worth using to a team who very much saw it as worthwhile. CoX was turning a profit - it's why Paragon Studios wanted to keep it running so badly - and we're still not really sure why they shut down the game. Maybe they thought the profit wouldn't last long enough. Maybe Positron insulted their CEO. Maybe they wanted to use the server infrastructure for Guild Wars 2. We still don't know.

But refusing to sell a product you have deemed valueless to someone else that wants it is just petty.

Copyright law is a mess, and everyone going around saying NCSoft "owns" this and that is playing into corporate hands. Copyright was never meant to exist in the state it currently does, and it does a disservice to humanity as a whole when faceless entities can keep people from creating things they love, especially when they do it for no rational reason. If you don't want it, you should release it, not lock it away forever.

Let's direct our ire where it belongs: at NCSoft, who put us all in the position we're in in the first place.

Super Atom

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Re: The Shot Heard Around Paragon City - SCORE Public Release
« Reply #139 on: April 17, 2019, 03:11:27 AM »
Hi. You probably don't know me. I'm a loudmouth.

The only bitterness this news has brought up is renewed bitterness at NCSoft for their petty refusal to sell an IP they had deemed not worth using to a team who very much saw it as worthwhile. CoX was turning a profit - it's why Paragon Studios wanted to keep it running so badly - and we're still not really sure why they shut down the game. Maybe they thought the profit wouldn't last long enough. Maybe Positron insulted their CEO. Maybe they wanted to use the server infrastructure for Guild Wars 2. We still don't know.

But refusing to sell a product you have deemed valueless to someone else that wants it is just petty.

Copyright law is a mess, and everyone going around saying NCSoft "owns" this and that is playing into corporate hands. Copyright was never meant to exist in the state it currently does, and it does a disservice to humanity as a whole when faceless entities can keep people from creating things they love, especially when they do it for no rational reason. If you don't want it, you should release it, not lock it away forever.

Let's direct our ire where it belongs: at NCSoft, who put us all in the position we're in in the first place.

Everything that can be said about NCsoft has been said. It's a moot point and not worth the time. We have new problems, new people, and new pain.