Author Topic: Captain Marvel  (Read 1064 times)

Dev7on

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Captain Marvel
« on: March 10, 2019, 06:24:18 PM »
I really enjoyed this movie. I don't know who Captain Marvel is so I kinda understand her origin story. You will be disappointed when you find out how Nick Fury lose his eye. I love Goose the cat. Ok this is not a spoiler. The movie doesn't explain how Captain Marvel survived Thanos' snap at the end and I was really disappointed about that and I have a lot of questions. I really loved the Stan Lee tribute at the opening intro. The movie also reminds me of City of Heroes like the Rikti Invasion. What are you thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 06:30:55 PM by Dev7on »

MyriVerse

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2019, 11:43:30 AM »
Yes, that Stan montage in the opening made me tear up. Still don't like this Stanfree world.  :'(

Carol was the first Marvel character I really knew. Yeah, I knew of Cap, Thor, and Tony, but in 1978 a neighbour gave me a stack of comics, and a few were Ms. Marvel issues. At the time, I didn't know what an Avenger was and never heard of an X-Man.

The comics really screwed up Carol over the years. First, with a rape that her fellow Avengers sort of tacitly condoned, then with Rogue sucking her powers and memories. Later, they turned her into an alcoholic. She's tended to be a poster child for victimization rather than empowerment. Also, in the past 15 or so years, they've sort of rebooted the character about 5 times because her books don't sell well. It's very refreshing to have a Carol that's not saddled with all of that baggage. It also wouldn't bother me if she has Thor/Hulk power levels.

I entered the theatre very skeptical of how they would treat Carol, and I wasn't sure if Larson could make a good action star. I'm more than happy to be wrong about this. She did great! The plot was pretty typical "hero fights thru adversity to win," but it did it well. I liked the rest of the cast. I also like the handling of the Kree and Skrull. I left the theatre feeling exhilarated more than any other MCU movie yet.

My one complaint was the soundtrack. I like the 90s music as songs, but I don't think some of them fit and detracted from the story. The most blatant came at the point when Carol was flexing up for the final fight. The Kree and Supreme Intelligence are telling her she can't win because she's only human. She flexes with energy crackling fists, and we hear... No Doubt's "Just A Girl." It's such a trite song that it almost ruins the scene, imo. Plus, it's not appropriate, because at no point in this movie is anyone dissing her for being a woman. Okay, there are some flashback memories of her going through USAF bootcamp, but that's it. All of the characters that are central to the plot fully accept Carol as worthy and accomplished. The Kree are racists, not sexists. Fury quickly partners with her with no problem.

I'm not too disappointed about Fury's eye, because Sam Jackson Fury has only ever been a letdown for me. But this movie even had me halfway liking this Fury.

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ryuplaneswalker

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 04:48:12 AM »
It was an okay movie, but that means it is in the low tier of Marvel Movies for me, like it comes down somewhere near Ant Man and the Wasp. There were lots of good parts however it was dragged down by 3 real problem factors.

1. ITS THE 90S DO YOU REMEMBER THE 90S WE EVEN GOT 90S MUSIC....THE 90S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This..wore itself out about the time the Mall Cop pointed at Radio Shack..but they kept doing it. "Dur Hur Stan Lee is reading his one line from Mallrats." and "We are gonna play music from the 90s like we do with GOTG despite GOTG having a very specific Thematic reason for that, what with Starlord's mix tape being his last connection to his mother.

"I'm just a girl" was especially egregious. It had no place in the fight which leads me into the second thing that drug it down.

2. The whole "She is a girl, she can't do things"

The guy on the bike? Fine whatever he is a scummy biker and it lasted a second. the "It's called a cock pit for a reason" might be the single worst and most pointless scene in all of the MCU but again whatever, it was gone in a second. The "I'm just a girl" as she is fighting the Kree Ninjas was a freaking terrible idea, you do not get to pull the "STONG WOMAN!" Trope out of your rear end when one of your OPPONENTS IS A FEMALE, and the worst part of that fight scene is that they could have showed off Captain Marvel's combat prowess by having the Kree Ninjas actually fight as a team like the Avengers did in Infinity War.

3. Nick Fury being treated like comedy relief.

This was the movies biggest sin. Nick Fury is a super spy for gods sake. The scene with the door locks was just absurd, here is this super spy craft way he gets a finger print using the tools at hand, 5 seconds later Carol blows the lock off and looks at Fury. "I wanted you to have your fun." and the later bit about him calling for back up and being treated like a child. "No you can't have your Pager back." and "I am sorry I told the Skrulls on you."

He had no way of knowing that the Skrulls were within Shield, heck they had no way of knowing that Shield even existed there was no reason for Fury to think that the Skrulls were infiltrating Shield, and the Cat scratching his eye being the reason he wears an eye patch was a terrible, un-needed absolute travesty of an idea that never should have made past brainstorming.

Arcana

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 05:27:57 AM »
Quote
2. The whole "She is a girl, she can't do things"

The guy on the bike? Fine whatever he is a scummy biker and it lasted a second. the "It's called a cock pit for a reason" might be the single worst and most pointless scene in all of the MCU but again whatever, it was gone in a second. The "I'm just a girl" as she is fighting the Kree Ninjas was a freaking terrible idea, you do not get to pull the "STONG WOMAN!" Trope out of your rear end when one of your OPPONENTS IS A FEMALE, and the worst part of that fight scene is that they could have showed off Captain Marvel's combat prowess by having the Kree Ninjas actually fight as a team like the Avengers did in Infinity War.

Personally, I think if you approach the movie with a clean slate, instead of getting caught up in the meta context of the movie, this works.  Of course Carol is a woman, growing up in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and of course, the movie leans into the specificity of the character.  But this idea that some people want to be what their surroundings, their culture, their families, their entire world want to decide for them isn't a "she's a girl, she can't do things" thing.  Carol is a person that has lived her whole life being told who she was and what she was going to be, and her own internal compass said something different.  That's a major subtext to Crazy Rich Asians.  Heck, that's the major subtext to the movie Dead Poets Society, and a whiter-maler movie there is not.

I think something I got from the movie that I don't think everyone did is that the movie cleverly (in my opinion) set her past aside and more or less started with her relationship with Yon Rogg.  And who is Yon Rogg?  He's someone who is trying to mold her into the perfect Kree warrior, a calculating, emotionless, strong, cold blooded killer.  He isn't trying to put her down - he *genuinely* wants her to succeed, but he wants her to succeed as the thing he wants her to be.  The movie is about Carol's conflict with who she is told she is by Yon Rogg and the Supreme Intelligence, and who she thinks she is deep down inside, and it is this conflict that brings her memories back.

And her memories start off with all the times she was told she couldn't do or be what she wanted, and her failing in the face of that.  It is only at the end, when she fully recovers who she was, that she sees that who she was, wasn't someone put down, wasn't someone who was oppressed or limited, it was someone who was told not to try, tried anyway, *failed*, and then got back up again.

But Yon Rogg shows that it isn't about people trying to keep Carol down.  Its about people deciding for her what she should be, even if that thing is a very strong, powerful thing.  Yon Rogg throws this in her face at the end, and she reacts emotionally, not because Carol is an emotional person, but rather because she's doing exactly what Yon Rogg has told her what she shouldn't do.  It is breaking free from living they way he decided for her to live.

The whole "girl power" thing isn't about her enemies being male or female, it is about her reclaiming her true identity.  And yes, for a woman who wanted to be a combat pilot in 1980s and 1990s America, I'm sure "girl power" was a critical part of her identity.  But "I'm a girl doing what people don't want girls doing" is first and foremost about a person fighting to break the mold being forced upon them.  Its just, well, she's a girl.

ryuplaneswalker

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 05:59:50 AM »
Quote
Carol is a person that has lived her whole life being told who she was and what she was going to be, and her own internal compass said something different.

The problem is, she doesn't remember any of it so none of that matters, her entire life pre-crash is completely irrelevant to her character and motivations. I give no craps about the Meta-context of the movie. I care that they put those moments in the movie to unnecessarily try to make her more sympathetic when she didn't need it. The only plot point her memories really had was that Yon Rogg was the real cause of the crash, but anyone who has been paying attention to the Kree in Agents of SHIELD knew that was coming because the Kree are freaking Jerks and Agents of SHIELD spent half a season reminding us of that this year.

Quote
I think something I got from the movie that I don't think everyone did is that the movie cleverly (in my opinion) set her past aside and more or less started with her relationship with Yon Rogg.  And who is Yon Rogg?  He's someone who is trying to mold her into the perfect Kree warrior, a calculating, emotionless, strong, cold blooded killer.  He isn't trying to put her down - he *genuinely* wants her to succeed, but he wants her to succeed as the thing he wants her to be.  The movie is about Carol's conflict with who she is told she is by Yon Rogg and the Supreme Intelligence, and who she thinks she is deep down inside, and it is this conflict that brings her memories back.

And her memories start off with all the times she was told she couldn't do or be what she wanted, and her failing in the face of that.  It is only at the end, when she fully recovers who she was, that she sees that who she was, wasn't someone put down, wasn't someone who was oppressed or limited, it was someone who was told not to try, tried anyway, *failed*, and then got back up again.

But Yon Rogg shows that it isn't about people trying to keep Carol down.  Its about people deciding for her what she should be, even if that thing is a very strong, powerful thing.  Yon Rogg throws this in her face at the end, and she reacts emotionally, not because Carol is an emotional person, but rather because she's doing exactly what Yon Rogg has told her what she shouldn't do.  It is breaking free from living they way he decided for her to live.

Oh I picked up on all of that because well again this is what the Kree do, and frankly I felt the energy blast on Yog Ronn at the end was mostly just petty and borderline bullying. It was very clear he wasn't a remote threat. He knew it, Carol Knew it and she blasted him anyways instead of telling him to GTFO. Now I don't personally blame her for doing it because well basically every Kree in the setting could use a swift kick in the arse but it wasn't a "You go girl" moment to me, and Carol is going to be the new face of the MCU, she took a pot shot at someone who wasn't remotely a threat because it felt good.

Tenzhi

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 09:58:36 AM »
Wait... they use No Doubt's Just a Girl for a fight scene?  Awesome!
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MyriVerse

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 03:01:35 PM »
I think something I got from the movie that I don't think everyone did is that the movie cleverly (in my opinion) set her past aside and more or less started with her relationship with Yon Rogg.  And who is Yon Rogg?  He's someone who is trying to mold her into the perfect Kree warrior, a calculating, emotionless, strong, cold blooded killer.  He isn't trying to put her down - he *genuinely* wants her to succeed, but he wants her to succeed as the thing he wants her to be.  The movie is about Carol's conflict with who she is told she is by Yon Rogg and the Supreme Intelligence, and who she thinks she is deep down inside, and it is this conflict that brings her memories back.
The problem is you can't do one without doing the other in this case. She can't be molded into a Kree warrior, because she can never be Kree. It'd be like trying to mold a Jewish person into an Aryan Nazi soldier. The only reason Carol was captured by the Kree is that she got this power from the Tesseract and they wished to exploit it for their own racist agenda. Were it not for that, they wouldn't care. Yon Rogg didn't care about making her better. He was just interested in using her. In fact, he was part of the plan that was only ever holding her back.
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Dev7on

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 01:55:57 AM »
3. Nick Fury being treated like comedy relief.

This was the movies biggest sin. Nick Fury is a super spy for gods sake. The scene with the door locks was just absurd, here is this super spy craft way he gets a finger print using the tools at hand, 5 seconds later Carol blows the lock off and looks at Fury. "I wanted you to have your fun." and the later bit about him calling for back up and being treated like a child. "No you can't have your Pager back." and "I am sorry I told the Skrulls on you."

He had no way of knowing that the Skrulls were within Shield, heck they had no way of knowing that Shield even existed there was no reason for Fury to think that the Skrulls were infiltrating Shield, and the Cat scratching his eye being the reason he wears an eye patch was a terrible, un-needed absolute travesty of an idea that never should have made past brainstorming.

That didn't bother me. I like young Nick Fury. To me what I look at it is he's a rookie working for SHIELD, inexperienced, and just learning that aliens exists in this universe. 

Tenzhi

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2019, 09:51:50 PM »
Just got back from seeing it, and it was fun.  The de-aging on Coulson looked odd in the stairwell.  Falling/flying Captain Marvel's cgi looked rough.  But I thought the period was done well, and the music worked.  Captain Marvel's personality was great, and they did a good job of expressing it in action, too.   
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saipaman

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2019, 11:11:50 PM »
I saw it.  Here's my spoiler free review - "emotionally flat".

Vee

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Re: Captain Marvel
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2019, 04:17:24 AM »
Completely phoned-in.