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What would you build?
Tahquitz:
--- Quote from: Xev on June 03, 2018, 01:50:29 AM ---Wait... I can't remember being able to put my drives on Pcie, before..., just video. Well, yes... I can see how plugging a drive into modern Pcie might speed things along over SATA...lol.
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In my daylight hours, I work in technology.
M.2 is a slot on the motherboard. Except for 'keying', a M.2 SATA slot and a M.2 PCI-Ex slot are exactly the same. The place you'd find out which one is on the motherboard is the mobo manual, or the tech specs before you buy it. You have to buy the one your motherboard will support, unfortunately, so if you want PCI-Ex and the motherboard you're looking at to buy says SATA, look at a different motherboard.
Of course, you can add a PCI-Ex expansion card to host a M.2 drive on the card itself. But with motherboards being made with it from the start, that's one less thing to shop for.
The same goes for memory as well. It's easier to find a motherboard that has all the slots and ports you need and go from there: the motherboard you want will tell you what processor socket to select a processor from (LGA-1151, LGA-2066, AM4+ etc.), what RAM to get (DDR4 2300, DDR4 3000, etc.) and what devices you can get and maximum count (M.2, USB ports, PCI-Ex slots - the more X16s, the more video cards you hopefully can add, SATA ports, etc.)
Start with the motherboard and processor. The rest will be clear from there.
Xev:
Yup, this is what I'm trying to do (your methodology) and this is the kind of info I'm looking for, thanks.
I'm totally out of date, guys... Not only have I not built a PC in over a decade, I completely changed professions. I landscape, now..lol (After many years of being a tech type person - I mostly did it for health reasons (too much sitting!) and due to most people around here don't have PC's, they have cell phones).. I've been at least as buried trying to figure out how to build an outdoors PC as I ever was trying to build one out of metal.
So, cool. Thanks for the help : )
I think 1 thing I misunderstood right off the bat is there is apparently a difference between pcie (what I know) and pcieX. At first, I thought we were just spelling it different.. Also, I thought M.2 was just what the SSD drive manufacturers were calling their interface to Pcie(x...) I did not realize it was new tech.
What you are saying about figuring out what slots you need.... is exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to figure out what the new tech is (where we are going) and what's hot and what plugs into what, these days. What's the video card bus of choice.. The hard drive bus of choice.. The memory bus of choice.. did any connectors change - like for power supplies or my Pcie(no X, that I recall...) Geforce..
Like you say... I need to figure out if the motherboard I'm getting has all the slots I need. Which means I need to figure out what slots are out there, today, and what to plug into them. And then pick what I think is where the tech is headed/what is fastest for the buck/what's most supported. That kinda thing.
Your guys' info is very helpful. Thanks. I'm so far behind.. But, you know what? This is nothing compared to when stuff changed all the time.. huh? When every few months there were new slots/connectors/interfaces - new tech - and your custom built gaming PC was top of the line for maybe a month or two and then it was nearly completely obsolete. I'm not feeling overwhelmed, just need to catch up.
Let me digest this latest info over some Sunday laundry.... : ) thanks, again.
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--- Quote from: Tahquitz on June 03, 2018, 03:03:02 AM ---
M.2 is a slot on the motherboard. Except for 'keying', a M.2 SATA slot and a M.2 PCI-Ex slot are exactly the same.
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So.. M.2. is the new hard drive Storage bus of choice when it comes to performance. Specifically, M.2 Pcie..x
--- Quote from: Tahquitz on June 03, 2018, 03:03:02 AM ---
the motherboard you want will tell you what processor socket to select a processor from (LGA-1151, LGA-2066, AM4+ etc.)
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Any recommendations on processor? Anything especially bangy for the buck or to avoid? (AMD)
--- Quote from: Tahquitz on June 03, 2018, 03:03:02 AM ---what RAM to get (DDR4 2300, DDR4 3000, etc.)
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Pretty much the same question as above except substitute 'memory' for 'processor' : )
Once I research and digest the above info and come up with specific hardware (what video card bus to have - and is that compatible with what I have, and which exact SSD and memory to get), the motherboard choice should be fairly clear. I'll go with Gigabyte just due to my history with them and pick the one that has the slots I need.
No more Seagate!... *sigh* now I have to come up with a new favorite "hard drive" manufacturer. My first PC with no moving parts except fans..
Tahquitz:
Well, if you're asking directly...
--- Quote from: Xev on June 03, 2018, 03:50:26 PM ---Yup, this is what I'm trying to do (your methodology) and this is the kind of info I'm looking for, thanks.
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--- Quote ---I think 1 thing I misunderstood right off the bat is there is apparently a difference between pcie (what I know) and pcieX. At first, I thought we were just spelling it different.. Also, I thought M.2 was just what the SSD drive manufacturers were calling their interface to Pcie(x...) I did not realize it was new tech.
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Both initialisms. They both stand for PCI-Express. PCI-E and PCI-Ex are the same thing. Sometimes I get lazy and cut off the X.
--- Quote ---So.. M.2. is the new hard drive Storage bus of choice when it comes to performance. Specifically, M.2 Pcie..x
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M.2 is the new name of NGFF (Next Generation Form Factor), or Intel's way of making a slot that resembles Mini-PCI-Ex on a laptop into a hard drive connector as well as an accessory connector. More info...
The numbers of a M.2 module refer to sizing. 22mm is the default width, with 40, 60 and 80mm lengths. So if you're looking at a 2280 M.2, it's 22mm wide by 80mm long. The longer modules have room for higher capacity when it comes to SSDs. Shorter ones have less capacity. It's physics. (There are short M.2s with high capacity, but you pay out the nose for it.)
What I'd go with? A M.2 2280 SSD with NVMe (make sure the motherboard has a M.2 PCI-Ex slot vs. a M.2 SATA slot first).
--- Quote ---Any recommendations on processor? Anything especially bangy for the buck or to avoid? (AMD)
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Don't worry too much about Meltdown and Spectre in the news, because damn near everything is affected and there's still no clear path for regular users to 'immunize' their systems. You can't win for ideal security at the moment.
Intel had the "tick/tock" cycle where every even year they'd do a die shrink and every odd year, they'd optimize their platform to take the most advantage of it. After 14nm, it's been fundamentally broken, we've been on 14nm with Intel the last 4 generations of the Core i Series. So anything in the last four years is good. From the latest releases, Intel is making processors with "as many cores as you can afford" with Core i3 falling by the wayside for Core i5, i7 and now i9. The most expensive, Core-i9 7980 is 18 cores (36 threads total) for $1999. (Building such a system is well past $4,000 altogether.) For gaming, media creation, and heavier workloads, I'd lean towards Core i5/i7. If you tend to run one application at a time and multitasking isn't a major deal for you (maybe one browser open while playing a game), you can get away with a Core i3.
Intel's most popular processors for gaming tend to be the Core i7-X700 (6700, 7700, 8700 depending on the generation you want), and the Core i5 6400 and 7400 chips, which are quad core. The newest chip at the same Core i5 tier (Core i5 8400) is hex core (6 cores) with a price bump to match. All three are in the $150-180 price range price-wise.
AMD has been at Intel's heels with budget systems that didn't quite meet up with Intel's bar, but with the die shrink slowdown, AMD is catching up. Their hot ticket right now is Ryzen. These processors not only get within 5-10% of Intel's performance, but also do it with more threads available. The main difference between AMD's method to accomplish the performance and Intel's is more of a voltage draw and a larger surface area for the chip. But even with that, the price difference is not too far off. In the comparison link above, Ryzen is more expensive (both boxes have no coolers, as the 2600X would be $30 higher), but when the advanced ones are compared (Ryzen Threadripper 1950X vs. Core i7 7900) it's splitting hairs. Ryzen comes out cheaper, but Intel accomplishes 4% better performance with less threads for a $60 difference. (Both are over $800, which is too rich for my blood.) AMD is getting much better in competing with Intel lately.
Definitely give the Ryzen 5 (Ryzen 5 1600 and Ryzen 5 2600X) and 7 (Ryzen 7 2700 and Ryzen 7 2700X) a look. The X models have a cooler in the box, which is recommended as most AM4 motherboards are hard pressed for matching brackets for new coolers. (That was my experience last summer, it might have changed since then.) The 1500X is $189 MSRP, while the 2700X is about $400. Intel just released a Core i3 processor this last iteration (Coffee Lake) squashing the rumor that Core i3 was being discontinued. If you want to look at AMD's offering, check out Ryzen 3. Quad core for about $96. Not bad in any man's english.
What I'd go with: Depends on the budget. If you want the processor to be $200 or less, a Core i5-8400 is $20 less than Ryzen 2600/2600X. If less than $150, I'd be all about Ryzen 3. Core i3-8300 is $120, but the Ryzen 3-2200G is $27 less for a -11% performance hit. Now for the first time in 5-6 years is a good time to make a budget desktop!
--- Quote ---Pretty much the same question as above except substitute 'memory' for 'processor' : )
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Memory will become clear when you get the processor and motherboard lined up. Generally, faster memory will slow down for a slower motherboard, but you don't want to overspend, either. A DDR4-2333 motherboard will take DDR4-3200, so if there's a sale and you want capacity over speed, that's fine.
If speed is what you're after, then look carefully at the support page of a motherboard before buying it. Some motherboards have native support for memory speeds out of the box, some require certain processors (more $$) or firmware updates to support faster speeds. Be safe and get the native speed memory first. If you get memory with an overclock speed and the motherboard doesn't support that maximum, you might be stuck not being able to start your new machine. Also, timings still matter. The timings are the four numbers you see in memory specs (16-18-18-38 as an example). The first number, the CAS Latency, is the easiest comparison between two memory modules: think golf. (Lowest number wins.) CAS Latency is also the dividing line between cheap memory and better memory. Cheap memory modules ("Value" or "Budget" named ones) have slower timings, where the gaming and enterprise memory are quicker at a higher price.
What I'd go with: 8GB is the new normal. 16GB or 32GB is better if you can afford it, but I would not build a system with less than 8GB anymore. Don't worry too much about memory at the onset, this is something you can upgrade later.
--- Quote ---Once I research and digest the above info and come up with specific hardware (what video card bus to have - and is that compatible with what I have, and which exact SSD and memory to get), the motherboard choice should be fairly clear. I'll go with Gigabyte just due to my history with them and pick the one that has the slots I need.
No more Seagate!... *sigh* now I have to come up with a new favorite "hard drive" manufacturer. My first PC with no moving parts except fans..
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Like mentioning Anti-Virus providers in public discord, saying what brand you use in parts will always be divisive. There's just as many vocal haters of Seagate as there are Western Digital. If the hard drive doesn't fail in AT LEAST 5 years, you got your money's worth out of it, no matter what anyone says. Longer is better, of course.
What I'd go with: Pick two hard drives. You'll need a SSD hard disk for your operating system, but those trade speed for capacity. ($100 for an SSD gets you around 128GB or less, $100 for a platter Hard Disk is 2-4TB.) Then get a regular Desktop Hard Disk for room to grow. Put your operating system and one or two FAVORITE games (online ones) on the SSD to mitigate load times. Everything else (videos, music, single player games, etc.) on the big drive, where patience is a virtue.
Good luck in your adventure! :D
Xev:
--- Quote from: Tahquitz on June 03, 2018, 06:21:47 PM ---
What I'd go with: Pick two hard drives. You'll need a SSD hard disk for your operating system, but those trade speed for capacity. ($100 for an SSD gets you around 128GB or less, $100 for a platter Hard Disk is 2-4TB.) Then get a regular Desktop Hard Disk for room to grow. Put your operating system and one or two FAVORITE games (online ones) on the SSD to mitigate load times. Everything else (videos, music, single player games, etc.) on the big drive, where patience is a virtue.
Good luck in your adventure! :D
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This, would be my thinking, since..... SSD became available, basically.. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I plan to upgrade on Cyber Monday. Which is, way far away, I know... but... taking into account that I watch them go by every year and this year I am hoping I don't have to... it's not so bad. And, not being in a hurry is nice. No rush decisions.
I said 'hotrod' when referring to building, up there, somewhere, but, that is a relative term... I mean.. Honestly.. If you get top of the line when top of the line is top of the line, how top of the line is it, really? I mean... say... a few years down the road. I try to go for that sweet spot where performance is good enough that everyone gives things a good rating - but I don't spend more than, like, $300... on anything.
If you enjoy Consulting, TQ, for the record, I enjoyed your consultation. That's all there is to it. Find out what someone is looking for and them gorge them with Relevant facts on the subject until they can make an informed decision. Sell them a ton of PC's once they picked out their flavor, show them how to migrate. Brag to your friends about the price tag : )
Xev:
As I awoke to a T.V. with a randomly appearing NO SIGNAL (lil hiccup with automatically powering on, this morning..) I was reminded of something I can enjoy again when my PC isn't falling apart.
Waking up Lost in Space!
I replaced my TV with a PC ~ the time dvd's came out. So using it like a TV is nothing new. One day I realized... hey.. why use an alarm clock when I can just have my PC boot up and queue up the next episode of (whatever) Lost in Space...?
It's just so much better than *wonnnnnk wonnnnnnk wonnnnnk*
Ever since my virus scanner's parent company changed hands my PC has been a grindfest when it boots, and, I've already lost 2 drives due to heat (note to self: do not stack so many drives so close to each other when indoor temps get well above hot) and due to they've been through a few moves and are old. Having the PC boot and then play a video was grinding the only hard drive platters I had left away, so, I had to stop.
Looking forward to that lil thing in life returning. : )
*pushes up glasses in middle where Band-Aid has repaired the broken part*
Doesn't everyone use their PC as an alarm clock?
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