Author Topic: Justice League Trailer  (Read 5805 times)

Mandu

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Justice League Trailer
« on: July 23, 2016, 11:05:05 PM »
Definitely a big step in the right direction for DC.  Somebody understands that dark and gritty doesn't mean that it exists in a world where the concept of humor doesn't exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gglkYMGRYlE

Tenzhi

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2016, 06:00:12 AM »
I liked that the Flash no longer looked like a hobo.  And the character dialogues were fun.  And I like Aquaman except for one glaring aesthetic issue that, as I recall, is also kinda tied to his backstory.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Vee

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2016, 09:18:33 AM »
I like that Aquaman's a hero for a small village but presumably a super-villain for marine life.

Tenzhi

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2016, 10:57:30 AM »
As often as marine life gets used as expendable slave labor/soldiers by him, that's a pretty apt description.  He's like Doctor Doom of the fishies.  He loves and protects his subjects... by sacrificing them to his every cause.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2016, 08:35:50 PM »
I think the trailer looked interesting, but I have to admit that I'm having difficulty shaking the cognitive dissonance of Batman being the team builder.  That's just not the Batman I know, although to be fair the Batman in the current comics is not the Batman I know either.  I think its worth keeping an open mind.

hurple

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2016, 08:52:47 PM »
Looks better than the mess that was BvS

So far...

Tenzhi

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 08:56:05 PM »
Didn't Batman put together one iteration of the Outsiders?
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Vee

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2016, 09:32:45 PM »
Yes, when he got pissed off at the Justice League for not wanting him to intervene in other countries. And he left them to their own devices like two seconds later.

CG

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2016, 01:24:41 PM »
Theory: Since they're shooting Justice League now, are the trailer's more light hearted moments essentially a test screening to see how audience react so that they can shape the movie to suit what their consumers want? 

One of the criticisms of MoS and BvS was the unrelenting grim and gritty feel.  A SDCC trailer is a relatively cheap way to do some market research while shooting the movie.  If the fans dig it, they can incorporate it into the movie.  If not, they can try something else. 

I hope that the positive response they seem to be getting for the trailer encourages them to lighten up parts of the movie.

RGladden

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2016, 05:04:03 PM »
I think the trailer looked interesting, but I have to admit that I'm having difficulty shaking the cognitive dissonance of Batman being the team builder. 

Agree one-hunnerd percent.  If memory serves, J'onn J'onzz was one of the founding members.  Going by the evidence seen in B v S J'onn won't be a part of the Justice League in the upcoming movie.  I couldn't care less about seeing the Cyborg in J'onn's rightful place.  In reference to an earlier comment, a little comedy relief could have been added to the movie by including Blue Beetle and Booster Gold in the lineup.  ("We stole J'onn's cookies!!") 

Vee

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2016, 05:56:58 PM »
And yet they were in the comics for years without providing either comedy or relief.

Arcana

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2016, 07:44:47 PM »
Theory: Since they're shooting Justice League now, are the trailer's more light hearted moments essentially a test screening to see how audience react so that they can shape the movie to suit what their consumers want? 

One of the criticisms of MoS and BvS was the unrelenting grim and gritty feel.  A SDCC trailer is a relatively cheap way to do some market research while shooting the movie.  If the fans dig it, they can incorporate it into the movie.  If not, they can try something else. 

I hope that the positive response they seem to be getting for the trailer encourages them to lighten up parts of the movie.

Oh I'm absolutely certain that is part of the thinking.  But I think it was a little too forced in the trailer.  Particularly the scene at the end after the logo "I hear you talk to fish" just seems odd.  I'm not saying that scene won't work in context: that entire scene with Aquaman at the start of the trailer was the coolest part of the package.  But it seemed like they were trying too hard to make the trailer have an off-kilter humor, and that aspect of it didn't work for me.  The scene with Barry was almost uncomfortable.  Again: in context I suspect that it works because by that point in the movie we've heard Batman deliver his recruitment speech multiple times, so this would play off of that.  It kinda plays on expectations like the Wolverine cameo in First Class.  But in the trailer itself, out of context it didn't have either dramatic or light-hearted punch to me.

It kinda felt like they didn't have the right stuff to show at Comicon, but felt they had to show something.  Which smacks a bit of desperation, because if they didn't have the right stuff for a powerful trailer they could have just done a teaser.  Marvel does that all the time.

One of the most interesting thoughts I had rewatching the trailer was that there was no hint or mention of
Spoiler for Batman v Superman:
the death of Superman
I would have thought that would at least feature in some fashion in the Justice League movie.  You can't just walk away from that if you're going to (obviously) revisit it later.  But maybe they don't want to spoil that either this early, or maybe that's something they didn't want to touch on in this early trailer.  But I think I would have, at least a tiny bit.

Vee

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2016, 08:02:30 PM »
There's an outside possibility there's something on that in Suicide Squad. But
Spoiler for Hidden:
I'm guessing they just assume no one thinks he's really dead.

hurple

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2016, 08:43:06 PM »
There's an outside possibility there's something on that in Suicide Squad. But
Spoiler for Hidden:
I'm guessing they just assume no one thinks he's really dead.

Seeing as how he's on the first movie poster... I'd say they're not even trying to pretend it's lasting:

http://insidepulse.com/2016/07/25/sdcc-2016-first-look-at-new-justice-league-movie-cast-poster-from-dc-comics-dc-entertainment/

EGAD!  That Flash costume is HORRID!!!!!!!   Way to take one of the simplest, most effective costumes ever created and F'it up guys.  Sheesh!


Vee

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 09:38:05 PM »
You'd think they could have gotten the cast to pose together, or at least have gotten someone good with Photoshop to put it together.

Arcana

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2016, 10:47:13 PM »
EGAD!  That Flash costume is HORRID!!!!!!!   Way to take one of the simplest, most effective costumes ever created and F'it up guys.  Sheesh!

Not crazy about it either.  Also not feeling it with Cyborg, although it might be that in the case of Cyborg you have to see it in action.

I do like the looks of the others.

Tenzhi

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2016, 05:27:58 AM »
The only thing that particularly bothers me about the Flash costume is too much contrast between the reds.  I've come to accept that movie costumes will get made to appear more "realistic/functional" at some cost to aesthetics.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Night-Hawk07

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2016, 07:48:44 AM »
Agree one-hunnerd percent.  If memory serves, J'onn J'onzz was one of the founding members.  Going by the evidence seen in B v S J'onn won't be a part of the Justice League in the upcoming movie.  I couldn't care less about seeing the Cyborg in J'onn's rightful place.

The only thing that particularly bothers me about the Flash costume is too much contrast between the reds.  I've come to accept that movie costumes will get made to appear more "realistic/functional" at some cost to aesthetics.

I believe the reason for these two items is they're drawing from the New 52 version of things. Which is unfortunate cause the New 52 was garbage, but that doesn't mean the movie will suck.

hurple

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2016, 12:59:24 PM »
I believe the reason for these two items is they're drawing from the New 52 version of things. Which is unfortunate cause the New 52 was garbage, but that doesn't mean the movie will suck.

Of course they are.  They were all in on that, and have done everything they can to force it down the reader's throats.  But, we'vve seen in the sales charts exactly what the readers thought of that.

The big suck about the New 52 is two-fold.  The new costumes suck ass, up and down the line.  The person who designed them (Jim Lee) should be fired, not promoted. and they seem to have forgotten that readers enjoy reading about *likable* characters.


CG

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2016, 02:37:55 PM »
Of course they are.  They were all in on that, and have done everything they can to force it down the reader's throats.  But, we'vve seen in the sales charts exactly what the readers thought of that.

The big suck about the New 52 is two-fold.  The new costumes suck ass, up and down the line.  The person who designed them (Jim Lee) should be fired, not promoted. and they seem to have forgotten that readers enjoy reading about *likable* characters.
I have one exception to that: the new Wonder Woman costume with Cliff Chiang's art was fantastic!  I really didn't read any of the other New 52 books for more than a couple of issues.

Arcana

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2016, 08:34:06 PM »
I believe the reason for these two items is they're drawing from the New 52 version of things. Which is unfortunate cause the New 52 was garbage, but that doesn't mean the movie will suck.

Speaking specifically about the Batman half of that, at least in the comics there's a story-continuity to Batman's evolving personality.  The big problem with Batman v Superman, in my opinion, is that there isn't enough history in the movies with these iterations of the characters to make their conflict have any meaning.  In TDKR, that fight is a culmination of decades of the characters' history and build up to that point.  It was playing off of our expectations and projections of those characters extrapolated into the future.  In BvS they've barely met and then they are fighting, for no reason, in the culmination of nothing.

Now, after decades of being a loner fighting a depressing vigilante crusade, and apparently after the death of Robin makes him even more insular, even more hardened, even more distrustful, he's going to turn around and do a one eighty on that set up to become a community organizer?  I'm not saying Batman can't be the guy to form the Justice League.  I'm saying the Batman in BvS appears to be an extrapolation of the Batman from the 80s and 90s that has no reason whatsoever to be a team player.  When Affleck starts saying he's putting together a team, I hear Batman trying to imitate Nick Fury forming the Avengers.

I personally think Affleck's portrayal of Batman in BvS was the best part of BvS.  I hope they don't ruin one of the only good things they did in the movie by trying to turn him into Nick Fury.    I want to keep an open mind, but to me Bruce Wayne doesn't try to get people to join a team to face an unknown threat he knows nothing about.  Bruce Wayne already knows everything about you when he comes to recruit you, and he knows what you care about, and he knows what buttons to push to get you to agree, and he knows what's coming because he spends every waking moment in an almost paranoid sweat learning everything he can about everything he needs to know, because Batman needs to (try to) control everything.

What connects the most liked iterations of Batman, from the Timmverse animated Batman to the Burton Batman to the Nolan Batman to even the Affleck Batman is that while they all have different capabilities and somewhat different personalities, they all approached the world as if the enemy wasn't evil, it was chaos.  It was the unexpected unpredictable injustice of a boy having his parents killed in an alley randomly for no reason.  And his job was to bring justice to the world by bringing order to it.  And the common denominator is that Batman always has a plan.  Tim Burton's Batman brings down the Joker by studying him, by researching his methods, by being a detective, and then by formulating a plan to defeat him.  Nolan's Batman formulates a plan to create the bogeyman of the Batman persona itself to defeat organized crime in Gotham.  And flawed though it is, the Snyder Batman formulates a rather involved plan to defeat Superman who he believes is a threat to humanity, because he can't live with the idea of the *risk* of an out of control Superman killing billions.  It is the uncertainty of the situation that creates the certainty in his mind.

Batman shouldn't be playing defense.  The trailer seems to imply he is.  Maybe the movie has a different tone we'll see when more stuff comes out.  But I think even if the comics have gone this way, that doesn't mean the groundwork has been laid for this Batman to follow that same path, and I don't think there's any way to get him there quickly enough without being jarring.

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2016, 08:54:37 PM »
I also think that Affleck did a good job of playing Batman-- more so than people probably expected-- but for me it was pretty jarring that he would decide to KILL Superman based on a ONE percent chance that Superman MIGHT go rogue.

Develop a way to defeat him? Sure. Beat him within an inch of his life? Yes. But KILLING someone based on what they MIGHT do in the future? That is not Batman.

I enjoyed the movie, but I never bought the rationale that was given for Batman to kill Superman.

Vee

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2016, 09:14:08 PM »
I too instinctively balked at Bats being the identity revealing team builder instead of the suspicious loner and I agree with all of Arcana's post, but if we look at it from the perspective she lays out then assembling a team of powered individuals to be ready against unexpected threats could be the logical response for a Bats who hates chaos and always has a plan. When you live in a world where two nearly unstoppable alien menaces have shown up in as many years without warning who did massive destruction so fast that Bats doesn't even have time to show up (in Zod's case), much less formulate a research intensive plan to stop them, about the best plan you can make at that point is have as much raw power on standby as possible.

Btw if any of you haven't seen them the Lego DCU movies are really funny on Batman's being the paranoid loner-type.

Arcana

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 10:34:55 PM »
I also think that Affleck did a good job of playing Batman-- more so than people probably expected-- but for me it was pretty jarring that he would decide to KILL Superman based on a ONE percent chance that Superman MIGHT go rogue.

Develop a way to defeat him? Sure. Beat him within an inch of his life? Yes. But KILLING someone based on what they MIGHT do in the future? That is not Batman.

I enjoyed the movie, but I never bought the rationale that was given for Batman to kill Superman.

Think like an actuary.  A one percent chance for a billion people to die is statistically equal to ten million people dying.  A normal person might not think like that.  But it is implied that this Batman has seen that one percent chance become reality, again and again and again at great human cost.

Would Batman kill Superman based on a chance of what he might do in the future?  The Batman we knew wouldn't do that to the Superman we knew going into BvS.  But would the Batman of BvS kill an unknown alien being that was a member of a race of beings apparently willing to commit genocide?  Who is so powerful that even when he's on our side can unleash enough power to kill hundreds or thousands of people?  Who answers to no one and even the US military seems powerless against?  If he thought he was a threat?  After seeing so many people die at the hands of much less powerful but no less dangerous people?  Maybe.

Tenzhi

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2016, 03:34:59 AM »
Meh.  Any perceived flaws in the Batman's motivations are completely forgivable in the face of that Luthor's madness.  Ire is in limited supply and there are just so many things to direct it at.  Must choose carefully.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2016, 08:06:45 PM »
Ire is in limited supply

Well, when you expose it to the constant amount of fertilizer that is on the internet, it tends to flourish.

Vee

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2016, 08:22:03 PM »
Yeah if your ire is limited maybe comic/sci fi etc fandom isn't your bag. Though I'd be glad to sell you some of my infinite supply at a good price.

FatherXmas

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Re: Justice League Trailer
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2016, 04:07:30 AM »
Does seem to be a bit lighter in tone.  The batarang calling card and Flash's reaction is spot on for a speedster.  The Batman/WW banter was nice.  Not to sure about the top part of Aquaman's costume being a full body tattoo.  Overall it was reasonable.
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