Author Topic: Daredevil Season 2  (Read 5996 times)

Tenzhi

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Daredevil Season 2
« on: February 27, 2016, 11:40:04 PM »
Coming March 18...  I'm looking forward to it.

https://youtu.be/2Cn3DVV0LHY
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eabrace

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2016, 01:20:52 AM »
Netflix is going all out on me this month.  Crouching Tiger, House of Cards, and Daredevil all pretty close together.
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Tenzhi

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2016, 09:24:37 PM »
Just getting into the new season and being reminded how much I like this Foggy when he's not being *too* much of a whiny mother hen.
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Aggelakis

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2016, 08:47:12 AM »
Foggy is my spirit animal.
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Tenzhi

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2016, 06:57:50 PM »
The little things knitting this series to Jessica Jones have been great so far.

Also:

Spoiler for Hidden:
I think they did a great job humanising Frank Castle using his personal tragedy, in my opinion.  Always disappointed when Punisher doesn't have his iconic Skull, though.
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HalcyonS

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2016, 05:50:11 AM »
Spoiler for Hidden:
I think they did a great job humanising Frank Castle using his personal tragedy, in my opinion.  Always disappointed when Punisher doesn't have his iconic Skull, though.

Spoiler for Hidden:
I did like how you saw it in the trial when they show the X-ray of his skull

Tenzhi

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2016, 07:09:03 PM »
That waitress... serving up what's supposed to be regular coffee from a decaf pot.  I bet I'm the only person bothered by that.
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Vee

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 06:34:16 AM »
I'm up to ep 9. Insanely good. Only problem is after the last 4 tomorrow I have to go back to the regular crap til Luke Cage in September. And the regular crap is going to seem even crappier in comparison.

Edit: Done, and tomorrow get to go back to the likes of Supergirl and SHIELD. ughs all around.

Oh and the decaf thing would've bothered me too Tenzhi. I'm 90% sure I'd have noticed it even if you hadn't mentioned it.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 04:25:07 AM by Vee »

chasearcanum

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 05:38:16 PM »
That waitress... serving up what's supposed to be regular coffee from a decaf pot.  I bet I'm the only person bothered by that.

Nope.  the missus thought *I* was nuts when I blurted that out during the scene.

Inc42

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2016, 09:23:43 PM »
Spoiler for Hidden:
I did like how you saw it in the trial when they show the X-ray of his skull
Spoiler for Hidden:
The armor at the end was a nice touch though.

Very happy with the season, it held up fantastically. As things were building I kept thinking we were going to get to that point where there was just too much going on to make sense, with Punisher, Electra, and...

Spoiler for Hidden:
...Stick, and Fisk, and the Hand, and Nelson and Murdoc breaking up, and hints at Karen's secret past, and Jessica Jones tie ins, and so on...

...but they managed not to make it overwhelming. Some small parts felt rushed, but for the most part it was solid.

Aggelakis

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 08:39:06 AM »
What a terrible (really good) place to stop the season! UGH I HAVE TO WAIT HOW LONG FOR MORE???

Make sure you stay through the end credits in the last ep! Tiny teaser in there.
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eabrace

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 08:54:44 AM »
Nice little tie-in tonight on Agents of SHIELD.
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hurple

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 02:23:04 PM »
Got around to finally starting to watch this "season."

Only through episode 2 so far.

Man... The Punisher is BRUTAL. 

So far, this is fantastic! 

Inc42

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2016, 01:53:53 PM »
Man... The Punisher is BRUTAL. 
I will say that Punisher is a major hole in my Marvel lore knowledge, mostly on purpose. Nothing has ever helped me get into his character. I've liked the idea of his origin, which is the same here as pretty much everything else he has been in so not really a spoiler, his family was killed by bad people so now he kills bad people. That's fine, even good, but for me that is where my interest has always stopped. I've never understood why he could go toe to toe with the same people that Spiderman has trouble with, or how he could even come close to people like Wolverine or the Hulk, but he has a very dedicated fanbase out there so of course he has to.

This show made him GOOD. I went from being annoyed and skeptical that he was being thrown in to being fascinated. I don't know if it was the acting, the writing, or a magical combination of the two, but I truly enjoyed his story.

hurple

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 02:00:29 PM »
I will say that Punisher is a major hole in my Marvel lore knowledge, mostly on purpose. Nothing has ever helped me get into his character. I've liked the idea of his origin, which is the same here as pretty much everything else he has been in so not really a spoiler, his family was killed by bad people so now he kills bad people. That's fine, even good, but for me that is where my interest has always stopped. I've never understood why he could go toe to toe with the same people that Spiderman has trouble with, or how he could even come close to people like Wolverine or the Hulk, but he has a very dedicated fanbase out there so of course he has to.

This show made him GOOD. I went from being annoyed and skeptical that he was being thrown in to being fascinated. I don't know if it was the acting, the writing, or a magical combination of the two, but I truly enjoyed his story.

They've had to pull some seriously idiotic crap in the books to make the Punisher anything special, like you acknowledge above... he IS just a guy with a big-ass gun.  (Or, more accurately, a LOT of guns) 

However, he works well as a street level anti-hero and he's always been a thorn in the side of Daredevil, so they had to put him in the series,  eventually.


Arcana

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 08:37:57 PM »
I liked most of it, and I think it works well as a follow up to the first season: Karen and Foggy in particular get fleshed out more in interesting ways.

I actually felt a bit let down with the way they handled Stick and the Chaste.  In the comics, Stick is scary good, and it is that ability that makes him a reasonable instructor for Daredevil and Elektra.  The Netflix Stick is, at least as far as I've seen, probably only as good as Daredevil at the moment.  That seems to be a weird "imbalance" particularly given Stick's insufferable arrogance, which is true to his original character.  And as for the Chaste, there's a moment in the series where Stick essentially says "time to bring in the professionals."  I got absolutely giddy at that point.  And then ...

Spoiler for Hidden:
...not so much.  Stone, Shaft, Claw?  Where art thou?  I know they are aiming for a lower power level, and I suspect Stone was scratched because he is in effect a duplicate of Luke Cage, but still.  In the Miller comics, Daredevil is the rank amateur and these guys are the pros, and Stick himself is almost the literal master whom you can't grab the stone from him hand.  I think it would have been more interesting if Daredevil wasn't portrayed as the absolute best fighter in the world and he was still learning there was this much bigger world out there.  Especially given the fact that he eventually *will* encounter beings like Jessica Jones and Luke Cage.  I thought the season one handling of Madame Gao suggested they were open to this more.

I'm still processing how I feel about this incarnation of Elektra.  I'm not the instant convert many others are.  I think for me the problem was that they appeared to have more time to develop Matt's relationship with Elektra but didn't use it efficiently: it felt rushed.  And that made the big payoff feel like it landed less strongly than it could have.  I think it is definitely a good Elektra, but whether it is a great Elektra for me might have to wait until Season three.

Spoiler for Hidden:
It is also interesting that it is Kirigi Nobu that kills Elektra.  That suggests that they have no immediate plans to integrate Bullseye into Daredevil.  I thought Bullseye might have been an interesting way for Fisk to extend his reach beyond prison, wiping out the competition that is sure to try to fill in the power vacuum to prepare for his return.

I really, really, really, really want to see this production crew do Bullseye's escape from prison.  Here's all my money, make it happen.

If there is a weak spot in Daredevil, it is ironically Daredevil himself.  Matt isn't explored as deeply in season two as in season one.  It is as if season one was about exploring what makes Matt tick, and season two is about how the people in orbit around Matt are affected by him, his struggles, and his secrets.


Overall, though, as with season one I think it is some of the best television I've seen recently.   I think the dynamic range of Marvel's productions is a really good one, from the light hearted Guardians of the Galaxy on one end, to Daredevil and Jessica Jones on the other.  I think Warner needs to learn that dark is a metaphor, not a palette, something I think the Netflix series seems to get.


Definitely looking forward to Luke Cage.

Inc42

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2016, 07:01:55 PM »
Karen and Foggy in particular get fleshed out more in interesting ways.

Reading this there is one scene that comes to mind that I thought was handled very well:

Spoiler for Hidden:
When Foggy realizes that Karen and Matt are starting to date, and you just see a look on his face of shock and disappointment, as if saying "but season one was setting up her and I to date...before I hooked up with an old girlfriend and rubbed that in Karen's face a couple times..." There was a LOT of emotion in that face at that point, which really speaks to the actor's ability. For a while I thought of him as the kind of actor that played the silly sidekick role well, and that would be the limit of his ability, but that reaction proved me so wrong.

Quote
Spoiler for Hidden:
I thought the season one handling of Madame Gao suggested they were open to this more.
Spoiler for Hidden:
From a writing and production side, the Madame Gao character became very complicated. The original plan for these Netflix series was a Daredevil season, Jessica Jones season, Luke Cage season, Iron Fist season, and a Defenders series. This changed with the success of Daredevil's first season being so popular and well received, and so Netflix wanted more of that as soon as possible while not wanting to change budget plans. Gao was in the first season was subtly setting up Iron Fist (the symbol stamped on the drugs is the symbol of the Steel Serpent), however during the time they were filming season 2 there was a lot of doubt if Iron Fist would get his show at all, so her appearance in season 2 had to be kept simple, which is disappointing, especially now that we know the Iron Fist show will still happen.

As far as the bigger world, I agree that I want it, but I understand the reasoning behind avoiding it so far. Historically most Marvel villains that appear in the movies and show don't get to come back for further mischief, with obvious exceptions of course, so "going through" villains that may be better saved for Defenders stories or other characters does make sense. They stuck to things they had already set up the first season, The Hand and Stick, while introducing Elektra and Punisher so there were some fan favorite new characters. They played it safe, however I think there is still plenty of time to establish the larger world.

Quote
I think for me the problem was that they appeared to have more time to develop Matt's relationship with Elektra but didn't use it efficiently: it felt rushed.

I'd take it even further and say that Elektra felt rushed completely, though I agree the relationship was the worst of it. Looking back there was a brief mention of her in season 1, Foggy mentioning a greek girl Matt used to date where things didnt work out, but I think there should have been more before jumping us into THAT much history.

Thinking through it, I know exactly where I want the setup to be: In the first season, where Stick appears and fights Matt in his apartment, talking about how Matt wanted a father, and he wanted a warrior, and how he didn't complete Matt's training. Matt mentions he learns some moves while Stick was gone. How awesome would it be if Stick added subtle mention of "So I had to go look somewhere else" to the warrior comment, then when Matt says he learned some new moves he mentions that he found another teacher, and in season 2 you find out both were talking about Elektra? Just a subtle little extra setup that when you connect the dots could be a fantastic reveal, especially if they skipped the
Spoiler for Hidden:
Stick sending Elektra to Matt in the first place
and Stick and Matt both have a "wait, you know her?!" moment.

Tenzhi

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2016, 07:30:24 PM »
I thought the relationship with Elektra was established fairly well through the flashbacks.  But it's also not a relationship I had any prior investment in.
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Arcana

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2016, 07:30:38 PM »
Thinking through it, I know exactly where I want the setup to be: In the first season, where Stick appears and fights Matt in his apartment, talking about how Matt wanted a father, and he wanted a warrior, and how he didn't complete Matt's training. Matt mentions he learns some moves while Stick was gone. How awesome would it be if Stick added subtle mention of "So I had to go look somewhere else" to the warrior comment, then when Matt says he learned some new moves he mentions that he found another teacher, and in season 2 you find out both were talking about Elektra?

I'm not sure that would play better.  For one thing, I don't think the line "so I had to go look somewhere else" works for Stick, because it implies Matt was a singular (as in unique, not only) student he had to replace, which makes the whole idea of the Chaste even less interesting than it is now.  If Daredevil and Elektra are the only two interesting students of Stick, then there isn't really a Chaste in the larger sense.  One aspect I thought was interesting about the Miller run was the notion that Daredevil was just one of Stick's students, and not necessary the best one.  In fact, it adds a subtle dimension to Stick that he had a soft spot for Matt, even though he *wasn't* one of his best students.

What I think I thought was the most flawed about Elektra was that in the comics she is a tragic character, while in the Netflix Daredevil show Elektra isn't tragic.  There is no real duality portrayed about her, and no notion that she has any other real destiny than to be a killer, whether for the Hand or not.  She's portrayed as the devil on Matt's shoulder, as his anti-conscience so to speak, from beginning to end.  There are flashes that she sometimes regrets some of the consequences of what she does, but even at the end she seems to be admitting that she's always been the way she is now.  Without some duality, there's no chance for real redemption, and the tragic aspect of the character is in my opinion lost.

Maybe they have alternate plans for the character that are just as good: I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt given how strong the writing was for the Punisher when they had enough time to devote to him.

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2016, 01:30:09 PM »
Just finished the series last night.  There were two things that stuck out for me

Spoiler for Hidden:

1. I'm not an expert in Japanese, however it sounds like the encryption they were using was a simple rotation cypher.  Those are easily breakable with brute force.  Not that DD and Elektra have the computer hardware to pull it off but if the Hand are trying to keep their secrets safe, they should use something stronger.

2. The guy from the Blacksmith's old unit with half his face missing looks like it was swapped.  On the ground in the body bag, he was missing his right eye, but in the picture he was missing his left eye.

3. I'd like to think I would have caught the decaf coffee pot if I hadn't read some spoilers. :)

Very bloody, so I fast forwarded a bunch of scenes, but the character and the actor for the Punisher were fantastic!  I can see why they want to fast track a series about him.


Arcana

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Re: Daredevil Season 2
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2016, 10:35:53 PM »
Just finished the series last night.  There were two things that stuck out for me

Spoiler for Hidden:

1. I'm not an expert in Japanese, however it sounds like the encryption they were using was a simple rotation cypher.  Those are easily breakable with brute force.  Not that DD and Elektra have the computer hardware to pull it off but if the Hand are trying to keep their secrets safe, they should use something stronger.


Not a real spoiler, so I'll just state that most cryptanalysis (code cracking) relies on having enough of the encoded messages to analyze.  Any code, however simple it might sound, can be almost impossible to break if the messages are short enough.  For example, if I'm thinking of a number between one and a hundred, and I encode it with a simple substitution cipher as XQ, you're not breaking that code.  There's just not enough of it to ever know what the substitutions are.  If the messages are short enough, even simple codes can be practically impossible to break.