Character Optimization - Mind Control & Force Fields Controller

Started by JanessaVR, June 30, 2015, 11:28:21 PM

Psycout

Quote from: JanessaVR on July 01, 2015, 10:12:56 PM
It's got 3 heavily-slotted damage powers, which is 3 more damage powers than I want, and at the cost of 2 lockdown powers that I actually do want.

However, your use of the Cytoskeleton Exposure Hami-O's in the Defense powers intrigues me.  I am going to play with those and see what I can come up with...

I have a Dominator build posted here that might be more in line with your play-style.

Both telekinesis and detention field are powers that annoy teams.  Detention field is useful for soloing but your build doesn't have any damage so it wouldn't be able to solo much at all anyways.  Repulsion bomb is an excellent power since it provides lockdown with a disorient effect and also a knockdown effect.  The damage is an extra bonus and Energy torrent was taken in order to add a little bit of damage to a support oriented role.  The epic power pool provides so much help to the build.

I used the HOs in the defense powers because I had already reached the maximum of five 9%accuracy set bonuses.  The numbers from the HOs are more beneficial than a Def/End IO.

When I make a Dom, I make sure that it has perma-Domination and close to perma-Hasten.  I also choose the best powers that allow me to survive and try to get strong defense and resistance.  Any Archetype can be built to have strong survivability while achieving its primary goal whatever it may be.

JanessaVR

Build updated again.  I really have become so focused on chasing IO set bonuses that I've been virtually ignoring the Hami-O's, so I thank you for that.  However, Enzyme Exposure is giving me better Defense/Endurance #'s than Cytoskeleton Exposure (if Enzyme is available for a given power), so I went with that instead for my Defense powers.

Psycout

Quote from: JanessaVR on July 01, 2015, 11:21:15 PM
Build updated again.  I really have become so focused on chasing IO set bonuses that I've been virtually ignoring the Hami-O's, so I thank you for that.  However, Enzyme Exposure is giving me better Defense/Endurance #'s than Cytoskeleton Exposure (if Enzyme is available for a given power), so I went with that instead for my Defense powers.

Enzyme Exposure is for Debuffs, not Buffs. Be careful.

JanessaVR

Quote from: Psycout on July 01, 2015, 11:24:30 PM
Enzyme Exposure is for Debuffs, not Buffs. Be careful.
Ack!  Let me do a bit of reading up on Hami-O's on ParagonWiki.

JanessaVR

Quote from: Psycout on July 01, 2015, 11:24:30 PM
Enzyme Exposure is for Debuffs, not Buffs. Be careful.
Ok, it looks like Mids needs to be updated.

I found the relevant page and section here on ParagonWiki.

Apparently, up until the release of Issue 22, my latest build here would have worked as I had intended, but no longer.  So, if we get the game back with an I23 snapshot, I'll need to account for that and revise it again.  Mids really shouldn't have let me put that in those powers...

blacksly

Quote from: JanessaVR on July 01, 2015, 09:29:54 PM
Yes, but I have to enjoy playing it as well.  My design goal was an "all support" character – you've turned it into a control-and-damage-dealing build.  I'd just play a Dominator if I wanted to do that – they do it even better.

I don't understand this argument in the slightest. Dominators are Control/Damage.... Controllers are Control/Buff-Debuff. If you wish to play a Controller who takes damage powers and slots them, as I do, they're are still VERY different from Dominators, who have no buff/debuff options. You literally cannot play anything close to a Mind/FF as a Dominator, no matter what you do, simply because for a Mind/FF that slots for damage, the damage is still a 3rd option (after control and buff). You go from a Control - Buff - Damage character to a Control - Damage character, and that is completely different.

In addition, if your goal is to mitigate incoming damage, I have two points to make:
1) the best control and debuff in the game is a defeat. Defeated mobs do no damage to the team. More damage causes the mobs to be defeated faster.
2) Repulsion Bomb is a 100% Knockdown power, that is a really nice control to have, and it also will Stun 40% of the minions that it hits. While it's a damage power, it does enough control compared to not-great damage, that it's more in the mode of Terrify... a power that pretty evenly split between control and damage. And more control = less incoming damage.

So, basically, Repulsion Bomb = less incoming damage to the team, both through faster mob defeats and through knockdown/stun effects. How does that not fit into a support character's concept? Now, if it were like Fire Breath, with pure damage and no mitigation, there may be a point to skipping it (although there is still the point about more outgoing damage --> less incoming damage). But it's not. It has a major control component.

If you were to say "I just don't like the power", it's one thing. We're accepting of personal build choices here. What I don't get is your argument that a 100% knockdown power is not useful for a damage-mitigating support character, while you're trying to squeeze out the last 2 or 4% of Recovery bonus for a character that won't be attacking all that much (when attacks are what use up most of the Endurance). It's as if you've decided "I'll make a support-ONLY character even if taking a support-damage power would actually make me better at support... I don't want damage powers at all, without regard to how useful they may be at mitigating incoming damage". At which point I have to ask... why not skip Terrify, then? It does damage, after all.

JanessaVR

Quote from: blacksly on July 02, 2015, 02:12:11 PM
I don't understand this argument in the slightest. Dominators are Control/Damage.... Controllers are Control/Buff-Debuff. If you wish to play a Controller who takes damage powers and slots them, as I do, they're are still VERY different from Dominators, who have no buff/debuff options. You literally cannot play anything close to a Mind/FF as a Dominator, no matter what you do, simply because for a Mind/FF that slots for damage, the damage is still a 3rd option (after control and buff). You go from a Control - Buff - Damage character to a Control - Damage character, and that is completely different.
This could be play-style differences again, as if I'm going to do "lock them down and then shoot them," then I make a Dominator, not a Controller.  It's true that Doms aren't doing Buff/Debuff, but then I'm rarely interested in Debuff powers - I'll lock the enemy down, I'll shoot at them, or I'll buff my team, but I generally think that Debuff just takes too darn long.  Don't get me wrong, when you're up against an AV, they're golden (a good Rad/Rad makes an ITF run much smoother at several points), but most of the time such characters just frustrated me trying to play them.

Quote from: blacksly on July 02, 2015, 02:12:11 PM
Repulsion Bomb is a 100% Knockdown power, that is a really nice control to have, and it also will Stun 40% of the minions that it hits. While it's a damage power, it does enough control compared to not-great damage, that it's more in the mode of Terrify... a power that pretty evenly split between control and damage. And more control = less incoming damage.

So, basically, Repulsion Bomb = less incoming damage to the team, both through faster mob defeats and through knockdown/stun effects. How does that not fit into a support character's concept? Now, if it were like Fire Breath, with pure damage and no mitigation, there may be a point to skipping it (although there is still the point about more outgoing damage --> less incoming damage). But it's not. It has a major control component.

If you were to say "I just don't like the power", it's one thing. We're accepting of personal build choices here. What I don't get is your argument that a 100% knockdown power is not useful for a damage-mitigating support character, while you're trying to squeeze out the last 2 or 4% of Recovery bonus for a character that won't be attacking all that much (when attacks are what use up most of the Endurance). It's as if you've decided "I'll make a support-ONLY character even if taking a support-damage power would actually make me better at support... I don't want damage powers at all, without regard to how useful they may be at mitigating incoming damage". At which point I have to ask... why not skip Terrify, then? It does damage, after all.
I've revisited Repulsion Bomb and taken a closer look at it (not for the thousandth time, I wish I could just test these in a live environment and see how they work firsthand), and swapped out Detention Field and Telekinesis for it.  I have, however, slotted it for Stun and not Damage; I can live with it doing 40hp damage, even if, again, I don't see it as my job (for this build - my Dominator build is also being updated today and I've got very different design goals there).

Psycout

I still don't understand why you bother to choose Long Range Teleport in all of your builds.  Coh provided many teleport powers such as Base Transporter, Mission Transporter, the Ouroboros Portal, Market Transporter and the Pocket D Teleporter.  Long Range Teleport is not a wise power choice for someone that is optimizing their character.  You need to design your characters so that they can survive and actually be alive to use their powers. 

And the avoidance of Hasten because you don't like glowing hands irks me.  It's an awesome power and an absolute must have for anyone concerned about recharge and making the best possible build.  And if you didn't know, they were making the effects for Hasten optional in Issue 24. 

Over slotting powers is also something you should look into.  6 slotting Stamina with a whole IO set that includes Accuracy, Recharge, and Endurance Reduction is never needed.  The only auto powers that should ever be considered to be 6 slotted are powers like High Pain Threshold because it actually provides slotting for more than one type of enhancement.  The Gift of the Ancients IOs that you have on most of your builds aren't helping as much as you think.  In most cases you should be worried about how much Endurance you use, rather than how much Endurance you recover. 

Ignoring essential powers in your builds like an Epic power pool Shield for a Controller, Drain Psyche for the Dominator, and aim/build up for the Widows is something that every veteran player notices.  It's hard to tell for me if you ever played this game or leveled a character high enough to be able to use and afford Purple IO sets.  I hope you take others advice as well as mine and make some great builds in game once the game comes back.  Now let's hurry up and get the game back!   

JanessaVR

Quote from: Psycout on July 03, 2015, 11:38:52 PM
I still don't understand why you bother to choose Long Range Teleport in all of your builds.  Coh provided many teleport powers such as Base Transporter, Mission Transporter, the Ouroboros Portal, Market Transporter and the Pocket D Teleporter.  Long Range Teleport is not a wise power choice for someone that is optimizing their character.  You need to design your characters so that they can survive and actually be alive to use their powers. 
Because I like LRT.  It was faster than zoning into the base, finding the teleporter, and then zoning into the new zone – and that's with using the Base Transporter power.


Quote from: Psycout on July 03, 2015, 11:38:52 PM
And the avoidance of Hasten because you don't like glowing hands irks me.  It's an awesome power and an absolute must have for anyone concerned about recharge and making the best possible build.  And if you didn't know, they were making the effects for Hasten optional in Issue 24. 
It can irk you all you want – you're not me, and hence I kind of tend to be more concerned with my likes and dislikes than those of other people.  In short, I'm the one who has to enjoy playing my characters, not you.  Yes, they were planning on making Hasten "FX minimal" in Issue 24, but since I24 was never released, and, even with the (hopeful) I23 snapshot if the deal goes through, I24 will never be released, hence it doesn't really matter what was in I24 if it will never go live.  So all of my prospective builds must take into account an I23 environment.


Quote from: Psycout on July 03, 2015, 11:38:52 PM
Over slotting powers is also something you should look into.  6 slotting Stamina with a whole IO set that includes Accuracy, Recharge, and Endurance Reduction is never needed.  The only auto powers that should ever be considered to be 6 slotted are powers like High Pain Threshold because it actually provides slotting for more than one type of enhancement.  The Gift of the Ancients IOs that you have on most of your builds aren't helping as much as you think.  In most cases you should be worried about how much Endurance you use, rather than how much Endurance you recover. 
I actually worry about both, but I've run out of Endurance enough times during play, even when I was trying as much to possible to compensate for it, that I now prioritize it more.


Quote from: Psycout on July 03, 2015, 11:38:52 PM
Ignoring essential powers in your builds like an Epic power pool Shield for a Controller, Drain Psyche for the Dominator, and aim/build up for the Widows is something that every veteran player notices.  It's hard to tell for me if you ever played this game or leveled a character high enough to be able to use and afford Purple IO sets.  I hope you take others advice as well as mine and make some great builds in game once the game comes back.  Now let's hurry up and get the game back!   
I was a VIP subscriber for 4.5 years, active through the last minute the game was online, and I had a good dozen Level 50's; at least half of them were purpled out to the max.  All told, I spent thousands of dollars on CoH during that time.  However, just because you believe you know The One True Way to Play City of Heroes (TM), does not necessarily mean that I agree.  You have provided some very good suggestions here (and I thank you for those), but we're not to going to agree on everything.  I tend to build characters around a specific concept/goal/role, and if there are powers that do not fit that (as I interpret it), then I do not take them.  I try to optimize as much as possible within that, but I don't take powers that I won't enjoy playing.