Author Topic: CONVERGENCE (DC COMICS) (Read 8341 times)

mrultimate · « **on:** January 27, 2015, 03:38:49 PM »

I've grown tired of all the spercial events in comics these days but I'm actually interested in this one since it will involve Pre New 52 characters.
Anyone interested or have any thoughts?

hurple · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2015, 10:05:23 PM »

The "New 52" has pretty much driven me away from comics, entirely. I'm not sure what the thought process was... We'll make all-new characters, but give them the same names as the old ones, so people will LOVE them!?!?

I'm sorry, but if the new Jay Garrick is a prat, I'm not gonna like him, even if he has the same name as my favorite pre-new 52 character.

So, yep, I'm looking forward to getting to see the *real* Jay Garrick one more time.

mrultimate · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2015, 03:28:57 PM »

Quote from: hurple on January 27, 2015, 10:05:23 PM

The "New 52" has pretty much driven me away from comics, entirely. I'm not sure what the thought process was... We'll make all-new characters, but give them the same names as the old ones, so people will LOVE them!?!?

I'm sorry, but if the new Jay Garrick is a prat, I'm not gonna like him, even if he has the same name as my favorite pre-new 52 character.

So, yep, I'm looking forward to getting to see the *real* Jay Garrick one more time.

I feel the same way about Alan Scott. Nice to know I'm not alone.

hurple · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2015, 10:00:57 PM »

Quote from: mrultimate on January 28, 2015, 03:28:57 PM

I feel the same way about Alan Scott. Nice to know I'm not alone.

Man, the new Alan Scott seems like a pompous windbag to me.

And all the new costumes... Gack. They all suck. Every. Single. One. They should never, ever, ever let Jim Lee design another costume.

Twisted Toon · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2015, 01:47:01 AM »

So, I'm not the only one that thought that they made a huge mistake with the "New 52" universe. Nice to know.

rebel 1812 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2015, 03:08:53 AM »

doesn't superman now shack up with wonder woman. Always thought lois lane was Superman 'settling' and he could always have done better.

Optimus Dex · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2015, 04:30:07 AM »

Quote from: Twisted Toon on January 29, 2015, 01:47:01 AM

So, I'm not the only one that thought that they made a huge mistake with the "New 52" universe. Nice to know.

I thought they were making a mistake also. I t seemed like - lets throw away old readers to maybe attract new readers - possibly. Or to let some writers put there preferred spin on old standards.

hurple · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2015, 05:42:18 AM »

Quote from: Optimus Dex on January 29, 2015, 04:30:07 AM

I thought they were making a mistake also. I t seemed like - lets throw away old readers to maybe attract new readers - possibly. Or to let some writers put there preferred spin on old standards.

Exactly. About the only good thing to come of it is the relationship between Power Girl and Huntress. That is golden!

And DC has needed a "super-spy" character for awhile... Maybe Dick Grayson can fit that bill. At first I was against it, but really, if Nightwing isn't the leader of the Titans, he's really just a superfluous character. And this seems an ingenious way to make him matter again. I have not actually read any of this book, yet. But I am intrigued with the idea. I hope they do it right.

Other than that... ugh.

They destroyed Amanda Waller, she was an awesome character, now she's just another shadowy gov't operative. DC already had tons of those.

Plus, they reverted Oracle back to Batgirl? WTF? From major player back to scenery... Poor Barbara Gordon

And don't get me started on Captain Marvel (oh, excuse me... Shazam.)

CG · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2015, 02:21:27 PM »

First a recommendation: The run of Wonder Woman was great for 1-35, new creative team at 36 sucks.

Second an anecdote: My local comic book store owner has told me that his DC sales are much higher after the new 52. A lot of new people jumped on. Take that for what it's worth.

Third, commentary: Many of the changes, I didn't like at all. Other than Wonder Woman, I don't think I stuck with any of the 'new' characters for more than a couple of issues.

Finally: this Convergence thing seems dumb. And a kick in the face to everyone who liked the old pre-Flashpoint universe. Kind of like thinkin about where CoH would be now if NCSoft hadn't shut it down: "You would have a moonbase by now..."

Optimus Dex · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2015, 08:51:18 PM »

Quote from: CG on January 29, 2015, 02:21:27 PM

First a recommendation: The run of Wonder Woman was great for 1-35, new creative team at 36 sucks.

Second an anecdote: My local comic book store owner has told me that his DC sales are much higher after the new 52. A lot of new people jumped on. Take that for what it's worth.

Third, commentary: Many of the changes, I didn't like at all. Other than Wonder Woman, I don't think I stuck with any of the 'new' characters for more than a couple of issues.

Finally: this Convergence thing seems dumb. And a kick in the face to everyone who liked the old pre-Flashpoint universe. Kind of like thinkin about where CoH would be now if NCSoft hadn't shut it down: "You would have a moonbase by now..."

Yes I had heard that DC sales were up when they rebooted . How much of that was the free advertising they got from the Dramatic , bold new direction [pat . pending.] Oh well.

hurple · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2015, 09:44:44 PM »

Quote from: Optimus Dex on January 29, 2015, 08:51:18 PM

Yes I had heard that DC sales were up when they rebooted . How much of that was the free advertising they got from the Dramatic , bold new direction [pat . pending.] Oh well.

What I've heard is that DC sales went up initially... but have since fallen far lower than they were pre-New-52.

Optimus Dex · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2015, 10:54:09 PM »

Quote from: hurple on January 29, 2015, 09:44:44 PM

What I've heard is that DC sales went up initially... but have since fallen far lower than they were pre-New-52.

That's what I heard also.. I'm afraid they are counting on hype for sales not long term readers.

doc7924 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2015, 02:23:13 PM »

I gave up DC all together at the New 52.

Where they though it gives a good point for new readers to get into the heroes, I thought it was a good point for me to jump off with the memories of the heroes I grew up with for 40 years or so.

This Convergence just seems like the 2015 version of Crisis of Infinite Earths.
Which I guess makes sense as it is 30 years since the original.

CG · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2015, 03:03:54 PM »

Quote from: doc7924 on January 30, 2015, 02:23:13 PM

This Convergence just seems like the 2015 version of Crisis of Infinite Earths.
Which I guess makes sense as it is 30 years since the original.

Don't get me started on the Crisis(es) that have been happening regularly. It was cool the first time. Now it's just old.

doc7924 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2015, 04:55:36 PM »

Quote from: CG on January 30, 2015, 03:03:54 PM

Don't get me started on the Crisis(es) that have been happening regularly. It was cool the first time. Now it's just old.

I thought the first Crisis was an awesome story.

And the 10 year follow up - Zero Hour, was cool I thought.

However when they did Final and Infinite Crisises (Crisi ?) just to basically put back the multiple Earths they took away in 1985, well that was just too much.

And now they are doing it again.

And even Marvel - who I always respected because they never rebooted everything every 10 years or so - is jumping on the train.
They are having a new Secret Wars or something that will wipe out the main Marvel and Ultimate universes and replace them with one universe with elements combined from both.

hurple · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2015, 09:00:05 PM »

Quote from: CG on January 30, 2015, 03:03:54 PM

Don't get me started on the Crisis(es) that have been happening regularly. It was cool the first time. Now it's just old.

True! Although, I'd be on board if they wanted to do one the right way. Wipe everything out and start over with Action comics #1. Publish it alone for a few months, and then start Detective. Then, follow that up with... I dunno... Flash #1... etc. Let the new universe grow and breathe without trying to pigeon-hole all the past into it or jump into the middle of some new, convoluted, "kinda what you remember, but not quite" continuity crap...

blackjak · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2015, 03:19:25 AM »

Marvel is following suit with the new secret wars, too.... $:-\$

doc7924 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2015, 05:37:48 AM »

Quote from: blackjak on February 01, 2015, 03:19:25 AM

Marvel is following suit with the new secret wars, too.... $:-\$

I mentioned that. They never resorted to a full scale reboot before. They tweaked things like Reed Richards and Ben Grimm served in WW2 - then as time moved forward they served in the Korean War or Vietnam War. But they never made a big deal out of it and it just was accepted as they new history. They did do one story I think where Ben visited some parallel Earth where everything was dated like the actual comics so the FF started in 1961 and by the present time the story took place Johnny Storm was in his 50's and everyone else was the age they should have been in real time.

But now with this Secret Wars (which I think is the third time they are using that title) they are going for an all out reboot like DC does every three weeks.

CG · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2015, 03:11:50 PM »

Reminds me of the 90s when there was issue #1 fever. The logic went like this: Issue #1's always sell a lot because they go up in value. We'll sell tons of #1's to the speculators and keep cancelling series so we can always have more #1's coming out! Alternate covers! Foil! Holograms! What could go wrong?!

Now, it seems that rather than rebooting the comics one at a time, they reboot the whole universe to get that big sales spike for all the #1's at once. Repeat when sales drop.

My sister owns exactly one comic: Spiderman #1 by Todd McFarlane. I think that will be the comic that survives the apocalypse due to volume printed and the sealed bag.

doc7924 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:38:02 PM »

Quote from: CG on February 03, 2015, 03:11:50 PM

Reminds me of the 90s when there was issue #1 fever. The logic went like this: Issue #1's always sell a lot because they go up in value. We'll sell tons of #1's to the speculators and keep cancelling series so we can always have more #1's coming out! Alternate covers! Foil! Holograms! What could go wrong?!

Now, it seems that rather than rebooting the comics one at a time, they reboot the whole universe to get that big sales spike for all the #1's at once. Repeat when sales drop.

My sister owns exactly one comic: Spiderman #1 by Todd McFarlane. I think that will be the comic that survives the apocalypse due to volume printed and the sealed bag.

Heh - reminds me of something I saw on the old DC Comics board where someone suggested they reboot every month so they always have number #1 issues.

hurple · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2015, 09:59:46 PM »

Quote from: doc7924 on February 03, 2015, 06:38:02 PM

Heh - reminds me of something I saw on the old DC Comics board where someone suggested they reboot every month so they always have number #1 issues.

Don't say that out loud. They might hear.

DC has always seemed to screw themselves in one way or another. They have *the* classic roster of heroes, but they keep futzing around with them, when, as Marvel proves time after time, all you have to do is write interesting characters.

The Spectre could and should always be Jim Corrigan, cop killed on the beat "before his time" who is allowed to return to Earth to act as the spirit of justice. But, when sales are down, "oh my, we better change the secret identity of the Spectre. That will raise sales!" No! Nobody gives a rat's fart who The Spectre is, or who Batman is for that matter, or what the heroes powers are... we care that the characters are well-written and are used to tell interesting, entertaining stories. You don't need to change the name, just tell better stories.

"Well, Bruce Wayne would never act like that."
"Why not?"
"He never has."
"So? He's *fictional* he can act however the hell the writer wants him to act. Just tell me a good story"

It's maddening at times. Hal Jordan is the Spectre? Yeah, that suddenly makes me care about either. Yawn. Are the stories good? No? Then I'm not gonna buy it.

And that's why CoX is still causing so many people such heartache now that it's gone... It was entertaining and interesting, and fun. If it came back but was re-named "Only Losers Play This Game" I'd still be as close to first in line to play again as I could get.

TinToySoldier · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2015, 11:43:57 PM »

Quote from: hurple on February 03, 2015, 09:59:46 PM

And that's why CoX is still causing so many people such heartache now that it's gone... It was entertaining and interesting, and fun. If it came back but was re-named "Only Losers Play This Game" I'd still be as close to first in line to play again as I could get.

Amen to that. Any news on "Only Losers Play This Game" yet?

doc7924 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 04, 2015, 07:07:51 AM »

Quote from: TinToySoldier on February 03, 2015, 11:43:57 PM

Amen to that. Any news on "Only Losers Play This Game" yet?

Yep. Call me a Loser as well.

Its funny how times change. The original Crisis was brought about because the suits in DC thought multiple Earths was too complicated for us dumb readers to understand. Then they spent the next 20 or so years making it MORE complicated to fit in everything from all those Earths into one.

Then the last 10 years or so with Final and Infinite Crisis we get back almost the same multiple Earths we had before the Crisis.

Guess us dumb readers are smart enough now to understand the concept.

hurple · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2015, 05:00:17 PM »

Quote from: doc7924 on February 04, 2015, 07:07:51 AM

Yep. Call me a Loser as well.

Its funny how times change. The original Crisis was brought about because the suits in DC thought multiple Earths was too complicated for us dumb readers to understand. Then they spent the next 20 or so years making it MORE complicated to fit in everything from all those Earths into one.

Then the last 10 years or so with Final and Infinite Crisis we get back almost the same multiple Earths we had before the Crisis.

Guess us dumb readers are smart enough now to understand the concept.

Well, "Multiple Realities" has become more a staple of Sci-Fi than it was 30 yeas ago.

Vee · « **Reply #24 on:** April 10, 2015, 07:13:04 PM »

Anybody have any thoughts on how the hell i'm supposed to file all these? do i stick them with their individual character folders or make a convergence folder with all the different mini-series in there? call it a retcon since i've only been dealing with it for a few years but i'm convinced all the reboots, new #1s, number rejoinders (which seem to always be miscounted), etc. is just to piss me off as i try to have an organized hard drive.

oh and the original crisis wasn't the original crisis - they used to do a crisis in JLA every year where they'd do something with earth 2's JSA. it got silly quickly.

hurple · « **Reply #25 on:** April 10, 2015, 09:49:01 PM »

I would do the "Convergence" folder thing.

Vee · « **Reply #26 on:** April 10, 2015, 11:19:16 PM »

that's what i'm going with. going to be a mess anyway what with 40 mini series and the main arc.

CG · « **Reply #27 on:** April 10, 2015, 11:43:30 PM »

You could just skip the whole thing and wait for the dust to settle.

Vee · « **Reply #28 on:** April 11, 2015, 12:24:28 AM »

i won't be reading it anytime soon, just filing it away. i'm currently reading the full run of the bats titles and jla, but i'm only up to 1977.

primeknight · « **Reply #29 on:** June 02, 2015, 06:53:01 PM »

Quote from: hurple on January 29, 2015, 05:42:18 AM

And DC has needed a "super-spy" character for awhile... Maybe Dick Grayson can fit that bill. At first I was against it, but really, if Nightwing isn't the leader of the Titans, he's really just a superfluous character. And this seems an ingenious way to make him matter again. I have not actually read any of this book, yet. But I am intrigued with the idea. I hope they do it right.

Plus, they reverted Oracle back to Batgirl? WTF? From major player back to scenery... Poor Barbara Gordon

And don't get me started on Captain Marvel (oh, excuse me... Shazam.)

I've always wondered why Barbra Gordon had to be either Batgirl or Oracle, but she couldn't be both. I really don't get this. She could and should retain both her oracle and Batgirl rolls or some derivative their off when the situation requires it. Example: Chuck: he could play both the hacker geek and the action hero all in one hour episode.

I really think Richard Grayson and Barbra Gordon could be the core of a new team, or possibly a re-imagined Birds of Prey. Grayson could be Nightwing or some new persona and Gordon could take on a new Persona that's not Oracle or Batgirl, but a combination that capitalizes on all her strengths. Owls are believed to be wise birds and it starts with the letter "O" so she could be named after an Owl or something? They could bring back Cass or Steph or whomever to play the Batgirl roll. Honestly having a Batgirl that can be the flirty foil counterpart to Robin is always nice. I always like the Grayson/Gordon dynamic as well as the Drake/Brown one.

Also, Marvel owning the rights to the Name Captain Marvel but not the Character is underhanded on Marvel's/Disney's Part, snatching it up when the character was in limbo. Hopefully Rogue will steal Carol's power again...and more permanently this time. I still don't entirely understand how DC can own the character of Captain Marvel with all that comes with it, but not be able to use the name Captain Marvel in a printed form. It makes me dislike the concept of intellectual property even more...but that's another topic

doc7924 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 02, 2015, 09:04:13 PM »

Quote from: primeknight on June 02, 2015, 06:53:01 PM

I've always wondered why Barbra Gordon had to be either Batgirl or Oracle, but she couldn't be both. I really don't get this. She could and should retain both her oracle and Batgirl rolls or some derivative their off when the situation requires it. Example: Chuck: he could play both the hacker geek and the action hero all in one hour episode.

I really think Richard Grayson and Barbra Gordon could be the core of a new team, or possibly a re-imagined Birds of Prey. Grayson could be Nightwing or some new persona and Gordon could take on a new Persona that's not Oracle or Batgirl, but a combination that capitalizes on all her strengths. Owls are believed to be wise birds and it starts with the letter "O" so she could be named after an Owl or something? They could bring back Cass or Steph or whomever to play the Batgirl roll. Honestly having a Batgirl that can be the flirty foil counterpart to Robin is always nice. I always like the Grayson/Gordon dynamic as well as the Drake/Brown one.

Also, Marvel owning the rights to the Name Captain Marvel but not the Character is underhanded on Marvel's/Disney's Part, snatching it up when the character was in limbo. Hopefully Rogue will steal Carol's power again...and more permanently this time. I still don't entirely understand how DC can own the character of Captain Marvel with all that comes with it, but not be able to use the name Captain Marvel in a printed form. It makes me dislike the concept of intellectual property even more...but that's another topic

Well Marvel was able to keep the name because they published a hero called Captain Marvel in 1968 in Issue 12 of Marvel Super Heroes.
DC really didn't get the rights to use the Fawcett stuff until 1972 or 73. So they couldn't use the name on a book title because of the Marvel hero, but he could still be called Captain Marvel in the stories themselves.

I don't think Marvel thought at the time to screw over DC - they used a name that was legally available to use at the time, since no one was publishing any books called "Captain Marvel".

And of course Captain Marvel Jr was the only super hero unable to use his own name in conversation.

"Oh hi, I'm Captain Marvel.....<LIGHTNING BOLT>..er Freddie Freeman,"

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Author Topic: CONVERGENCE (DC COMICS) (Read 8341 times)