Author Topic: Best Controller  (Read 41758 times)

blacksly

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #80 on: September 19, 2014, 11:21:01 PM »
Well, there's two sides to your question.  Tackling the second one first, I think when most players approach the problem of "best controller to tackle AVs and GMs" they start where you're starting: Illusion being the best primary because you get indestructible tanks to start.  That's easier to manage than attempting to out-defense, out-debuff, and out-heal an AV pounding on you and your pets. 

Then they ask which secondary best compliments Illusion in that situation, and Radiation tends to come up as the best.  Why its usually seen as the best is usually because it has strong -regen, but even back then that assertion was seen as a very strong oversimplification.  As we used to say even back then, -regen isn't magic, its just a kind of damage.  The advantage of most -regen powers, as the above analysis shows, is that it delivers a huge amount of effective damage for relatively small cost in (cast) time and endurance.

And that gets to your first question: did I use the chains I show above?  No, because in actuality (and I think most AV-hunters of all archetypes will agree) the single most difficult to manage bottleneck for fighting AVs and GMs is endurance.  Its easy to build a build that can output a huge amount of damage on paper.  But one of the reasons why the pylon tests were seen as interesting was that they demonstrated what a build could sustain over a (relatively) long period of time.  To take down a pylon (which is basically a kind of AV fight) you needed to balance high damage with endurance management and enough damage mitigation to survive in a practical (at least for that test) build package.

In practice, my Ill/Rad could always "do more" than I could sustain in endurance drain over long periods of time, so I had to pace myself.  In practice, I think that's part of what made /Rad such a good AV killer: LR was, in effect, an immensely efficient DPE attack.

First of all, I'll second this: Illusion/Rad is the premier AV killer throughout the game's history because it's the simplest, the easiest to build to a competent level, and also the one that has a high top-end ability. Now that IOs are out, you can use Earth/Thermal to make an AV-soloer much more easily (you really just need the two pet Resist IOs)... but the top end DPS for Earth/Thermal is a lot lower since it doesn't have the PA damage. You can also do nice things with some other builds like Ill/Storm or Demon/Storm, but they're not nearly as easy to build up to the point where they handle 80% or more of the AVs, and they require more skill since you can take damage. So, overall, Ill/Rad is unquestionably the single best bottom-to-top AV-soloer.

Second, I respecced my Ill/Rad multiple times, and several of them were done for Endurance purposes... I eventually ended up in the Primal Pool simply because Conserve Power made End management so much easier. However, since going Primal rather than a more-damaging pool inherently pushes the slider towards efficiency rather than max DPS, even if I could go at max speed all the time, you could say that my max speed was inherently throttled. So the idea that you have to hold back on damage is true.

How much do you have to hold back on damage? It's ironic... the more damage you're doing, the less you have to hold back. An Ill/Rad who fights for 30 seconds at full bore, and sees the AV's HP bar move a lot (meaning that it's not resistant to your damage), then looks at the 20 CABs that he brought along (if you're using inspirations), and says "they will be enough", and keeps going at max speed. Now, say that the AV's damage looks a lot less. Now the player says "At max blast, I use a CAB to refill every 30 seconds, and they will not last me the full fight. At some point I will have to slow down", and he probably slows down a bit, spreading out his CAB use to once every 40 or 50 seconds. But you don't know if you're going to do that until you fight the AV. You also have to hold some back in case the AV has a last-ditch defense, or heals at 25% health, so that you can burst it down after its low-HP defense wears off (or heal gets used).

Arcana

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2014, 01:48:58 AM »
As a note, while we're discussing DPS (and theoretical best-case DPS, at that, since I agree that most of the chains are generally not sustainable for a full AV fight), the other half of the question is: can you SURVIVE against AVs/GMs?

Now, Ill/Rad has an easy answer to that: perma-PA. Earth Control with most secondaries can generally say "Yes", since Stoney can tank most AVs (and pretty much all AVs with a Thermal, Sonic, FF, or Empathy secondary, and probably with Cold).
But for everyone else, in order for the answer to be "yes", you need one of two reasons: You cap out Ranged Defense (including -ToHit, although usually only Dark puts out enough to consider that a major defense), or you nerf the AV/GM's damage.

Now, IF you could keep up the Fire/Dark's chain as listed, it puts out just over -100% Damage Debuff (assuming 30% damage resistance for the AV, which is probably slightly on the optimistic side... I'd wager that AVs are probably around 30% resist overall, but more likely 40% or even 50% to their own primary damage type). It also puts out -15% or more -ToHit (that's after the AV's debuff resistance), and it spams heals (as does Fluffy, at a slower rate). Basically, you have no worries about dying due to incoming damage (mez, maybe).

That's not the case, however, for most Fire/Rads. You would have to build for a Ranged Defense, which is probably less offensively capable.

I'm not sure how Dark generates -100% damage debuff.  TG stacks -10% damage for 20s, which does a little better than triple stacking for between -30% and -40% damage.  If you use Darkest Night you get an additional -30%.  Factoring in 95% tohit ceiling on TG, that's between -58.5% and -68% damage debuff, and that's assuming zero resistance on the AV.

I also cannot verify the calculation on tohit debuffs.  AVs resist those by the same amount as -regen, so to get to -15% tohit would require being able to generate -100% raw tohit debuff, and TG's tohit debuff is -5% base.  Its slottable but I don't see how you can get to -100% (your posted build does not slot for -tohit on TG and only slots DN to -21.91%, making its actual tohit debuff between about -37% and -42% - which is reduced by AV resistance to -5.55% to -6.3%).

While Dark does have more defensive potential than Rad, I'm not convinced its an overwhelming advantage when fighting AVs.  Rad has four defensive abilities relevant to AVs, only one of which requires a tohit roll.  There's the healing in RA, the -25% tohit in RI (resisted to -3.75%), the -20% DMG in EF, and the -75% recharge in LR (resisted to -11.25%).  In the Fire/Rad build I posted RA's cycle time was 4.12s.  If that build decided to spam heals to keep the controller and pets alive, the healing output of RA would be about 47.8 h/s.  That compares to the 58.6 h/s that TG will average in the posted Fire/Rad build and chain and factoring in 95% tohit.  That's not an overwhelming advantage and the advantage rapidly shifts to the Rad in situations where the AV has defense or tohit debuffs.

If we look at sustainability, RA has to slow down, but not by much.  Spamming RA like that costs 1.92eps.  That's a lot.  But the posted Fire/Rad is capable of turning on EF, RI, Assault, CJ, Dark Embrace, and Maneuvers (basically, all defensive and offensive toggles) and have 2.13eps to spare.  If it chooses to keep LR single stacked every 30s that burns 0.276 eps.  Perma Hasten costs 0.125 eps.  Perma-AM costs 0.13 eps.  That leaves the Rad with 1.6 eps.  With that budget I can use RA every 4.95 seconds at maximum sustainable endurance burn without compromising defensive powers or offensive buffs and let the pets deliver the offense.  That's 39.8 h/s.

The Fire/Dark is a bit more endurance friendly but only because of Soul Absorption.  In fact, when Soul Absorption misses (to the best of my knowledge it only autohits dead things, it would not be autohit when fighting an AV) the Fire/Dark is almost unplayable for 45 seconds until it recharges.  If it misses twice in a row, the Fire/Dark would almost certainly have to disengage the fight completely.  And that could happen.  Even at the 95% ceiling, in a fight that lasted, say, 6 minutes, SA would be used eight times.  The odds are about one in 14 of seeing a double miss in that fight.  And in any AV fight where tohit is in question at all, I believe that */Dark's mitigation unravels.

Arcana

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2014, 02:06:29 AM »
Second, I respecced my Ill/Rad multiple times, and several of them were done for Endurance purposes... I eventually ended up in the Primal Pool simply because Conserve Power made End management so much easier. However, since going Primal rather than a more-damaging pool inherently pushes the slider towards efficiency rather than max DPS, even if I could go at max speed all the time, you could say that my max speed was inherently throttled. So the idea that you have to hold back on damage is true.

Endurance bottlenecks was why I switched to Agility Core Paragon at my earliest opportunity.  Also, why I loved Ageless Core Epiphany in the appropriate content.  More endurance, and faster recharge meant I could throw fireball into the works more often and without endurance problems.  Otherwise, fireball was a burst but not sustainable power for my build.

Agility Core Paragon is why my posted Ill/Rad build has such monster recovery (4.74eps).  I could spam 237.36 heals every 3.88 seconds without running out of end, which is about 61.2 h/s which ain't bad for a Controller.

Actually, I turn them off in Mids when comparing builds, but because I had all the accolades my Ill/Rad actually had 5.2 eps of recovery.  And even at that, I was always looking for ways to make the build more endurance efficient.

blacksly

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2014, 02:24:44 AM »
I'm not sure how Dark generates -100% damage debuff.  TG stacks -10% damage for 20s, which does a little better than triple stacking for between -30% and -40% damage.  If you use Darkest Night you get an additional -30%.  Factoring in 95% tohit ceiling on TG, that's between -58.5% and -68% damage debuff, and that's assuming zero resistance on the AV.

I also cannot verify the calculation on tohit debuffs.  AVs resist those by the same amount as -regen, so to get to -15% tohit would require being able to generate -100% raw tohit debuff, and TG's tohit debuff is -5% base.  Its slottable but I don't see how you can get to -100% (your posted build does not slot for -tohit on TG and only slots DN to -21.91%, making its actual tohit debuff between about -37% and -42% - which is reduced by AV resistance to -5.55% to -6.3%).

Dark Servant runs Chill of the Night, which is a -30% ToHit Debuff. It also runs Darkest Night, with -15% ToHit and -30% Damage Debuffs. So it puts out -45% toggled, plus another 5% from TG and/or Tentacles. So to keep it simple, that's 50% ToHit Debuff, and with a reasonable 40% enhancement on it (best slotting is 6x Cloud Senses), it puts out 70% To Hit Debuff. While it's alive, the Controller has the 100%, although there will be a vulnerable time when you have to re-summon it next to the AV. As a note, that Chill of the Night is part of the reason for its damage, since it ticks for about 3 DPS plus 1.4 from the IO.

Dark Servant just about double-stacks TG on the AV, which is another -20%, but call it about -18% due to animation conflict. So it puts out almost 50% -Damage (with its Darkest Night), some of which is persistent through a resummon.

So we have about 60% -Damage from the Controller's DN and stacked TG, and 50% from Fluffy. Tar Pit is about a 45% Resist Debuff, so the total Damage Debuff is 110 * 1.45 (against even-level) for right around 160% -Damage. If the AV has 40% Resist, it suffers a 96% Debuff (capped at 90%). Even a 50% Resist has it with a 80% -Damage, which is strong enough with the ToHit debuff, base Defense, and Healing.

The only catch is the short period when you re-summon Fluffy, because not only does the new one have to appear, but it also has to bring up the toggles. As I recall, at least one of them (I think Chill of the Night) is the first thing it does when it appears, so it will have them up quickly. But you do have a period during which its debuffs will be lower (usually just the -15-20% damage from the prior one's TG). It's not usually a serious problem, but it is something to have to be aware of. If running on low toggles during most of the fight, it may be a good idea to retoggle (losing DPS) before a resummons.

Codewalker

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2014, 02:36:02 AM »
I don't think I've seen it mentioned, at least on this page, but are you taking into account the 9.375% (unenhanced) defense from Fade? It's not quite perma, but pretty close at the recharge levels being discussed.

Codewalker

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #85 on: September 20, 2014, 02:42:38 AM »
The only catch is the short period when you re-summon Fluffy, because not only does the new one have to appear, but it also has to bring up the toggles. As I recall, at least one of them (I think Chill of the Night) is the first thing it does when it appears, so it will have them up quickly.

Dark Servant's Chill of the Night is an autopower, so it goes active as soon as the pet is summoned. The power description text says Toggle, but it's a lie.

Darkest Night does have to be toggled on. I can't remember if the Pet AI will keep the toggle on all the time, or if it will turn it on and off regularly like enemy critters with toggles do. Arcana might know, she's done far more analysis of AI behavior than I ever did.

blacksly

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2014, 03:11:42 AM »
Dark Servant's Chill of the Night is an autopower, so it goes active as soon as the pet is summoned. The power description text says Toggle, but it's a lie.

Darkest Night does have to be toggled on. I can't remember if the Pet AI will keep the toggle on all the time, or if it will turn it on and off regularly like enemy critters with toggles do. Arcana might know, she's done far more analysis of AI behavior than I ever did.

Thanks. I THOUGHT it might be, since I recalled Fluffy appearing with its graphic around him, but I checked the power description and got fooled.

blacksly

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2014, 03:14:45 AM »
I don't think I've seen it mentioned, at least on this page, but are you taking into account the 9.375% (unenhanced) defense from Fade? It's not quite perma, but pretty close at the recharge levels being discussed.

No, just looking at -ToHit and -Dam in the discussion. Fade would make it easier to add to IO sets and the -ToHit so that you're softcapped against Ranged (maybe even Ranged & AoE), but I fought AVs with a Dark/Dark Defender back on SOs without taking noticeable damage unless mezzed, so the softcapped defense is just an extra backup layer of defense. It's nice when softcapped Defense (including -ToHit) is the 2nd layer of defense rather than the first, and you're also spamming a very strong heal as the 3rd layer.

Too bad they all go down together when mezzed.

Microcosm

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2014, 03:53:10 AM »
Also worth noting, using the rad heal completely stops your damage output for its activation time, as opposed to TG which you guys have already covered as having a certain amount of effective dps. Not necessarily a big deal, but if you have to hit whatever heal you've got very often, I would prefer to be getting damage out of it.

Arcana

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2014, 08:13:18 AM »
Dark Servant's Chill of the Night is an autopower, so it goes active as soon as the pet is summoned. The power description text says Toggle, but it's a lie.

Darkest Night does have to be toggled on. I can't remember if the Pet AI will keep the toggle on all the time, or if it will turn it on and off regularly like enemy critters with toggles do. Arcana might know, she's done far more analysis of AI behavior than I ever did.

My recollection, although I'm not 100% certain of this, is that the pet AI did similar things as the critter AI, although some player pet AI was specifically tweaked to make them work more efficiently.  I know that sometimes critter AI failed to use toggles at all - the AE custom critter powers had all enemy toggles changed to clicks because they often failed to use them, and I know that part of the reason was related to problems with critter AI getting confused by recharge buffs.

blacksly

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2014, 12:42:37 PM »
My recollection, although I'm not 100% certain of this, is that the pet AI did similar things as the critter AI, although some player pet AI was specifically tweaked to make them work more efficiently.  I know that sometimes critter AI failed to use toggles at all - the AE custom critter powers had all enemy toggles changed to clicks because they often failed to use them, and I know that part of the reason was related to problems with critter AI getting confused by recharge buffs.

As I recall, this sounds right. Dark Servant should have an "open" attack chain, since it can't fill it up with attacks (its shortest Recharge is 8 seconds), so normally it will have time to activate DN, even if DN is at the lowest priority, because at some time all of its other attack powers will be recharging. But if you could increase its Recharge, then it could actually keep attacking, and never have time to bring up DN. But with its Recharges now set to be unmodifiable, it will always have the empty activation time in which to bring up DN. The real question, which I don't recall, is whether, once it brings up DN upon an AV... does it ever stop it, after 30 seconds or a minute. I do not recall the details.

parabola

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2014, 03:57:38 PM »
problems with critter AI getting confused by recharge buffs.

Perhaps you could help me clear something up. I developed a method of farming in the AE that relied on confuse and critters with AM. I just gave them that one power in their secondary and so once I hit a group with seeds of confusion I was instantly buffed to godhood. This capped recharge, damage and recovery (i think - can't remember exactly what AM gives now) and the result was very successful farming indeed! I never saw any mention of this method on the forums but i can't imagine I was the only person to try this.

Anyway at some point in the life of AE updates a change was made that nerfed my farming method. Critters no longer spammed AM on me until I glowed. I would catch a few but then they would stop casting it. One thing I noticed was that in general the critters would have AM on them when they stopped casting it (seeds would always miss a couple in a group). I was never sure if the devs had put in a specific nerf to stop this sort of thing or if they had simply made an update to critter AI that had inadvertently nerfed me. Your statement above suggests it could be the latter? If recharge was breaking critter AI one thing they would have to ensure is that critters didn't stack buffs like AM on themselves. A 'if I've got AM on me don't cast it' would have this effect I'd have thought?

Arcana

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2014, 06:08:44 PM »
Perhaps you could help me clear something up. I developed a method of farming in the AE that relied on confuse and critters with AM. I just gave them that one power in their secondary and so once I hit a group with seeds of confusion I was instantly buffed to godhood. This capped recharge, damage and recovery (i think - can't remember exactly what AM gives now) and the result was very successful farming indeed! I never saw any mention of this method on the forums but i can't imagine I was the only person to try this.

Anyway at some point in the life of AE updates a change was made that nerfed my farming method. Critters no longer spammed AM on me until I glowed. I would catch a few but then they would stop casting it. One thing I noticed was that in general the critters would have AM on them when they stopped casting it (seeds would always miss a couple in a group). I was never sure if the devs had put in a specific nerf to stop this sort of thing or if they had simply made an update to critter AI that had inadvertently nerfed me. Your statement above suggests it could be the latter? If recharge was breaking critter AI one thing they would have to ensure is that critters didn't stack buffs like AM on themselves. A 'if I've got AM on me don't cast it' would have this effect I'd have thought?

I recall the devs changing the AI of the custom critters in the AE to reduce their desire to use buffs when they were already buffed to prevent buff spamming.  I don't think they were specifically targeting your farming method as it was observed that sometimes custom critters would just stand around, say, spamming clear mind on each other over and over and not actually attack anything.

Teikiatsu

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2014, 06:46:48 PM »
I guess it depends on your definition of 'best'

For mob farming, Fire/ was a good primary.  People talk about /Kin and /Rad, but I had a Fire/Sonic that was pretty impressive for solo farming.

For AVs and Monsters (and at one time, Hami) Ill/Rad seems to be the go-to choice.

For pure team-oriented crowd control, I have to vote for Earth/.  Secondary would be a toss-up for Trick Arrow or Storm Summoning (in the hands of a person that knew how to herd with Storm)
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parabola

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2014, 07:12:11 PM »
I recall the devs changing the AI of the custom critters in the AE to reduce their desire to use buffs when they were already buffed to prevent buff spamming.  I don't think they were specifically targeting your farming method as it was observed that sometimes custom critters would just stand around, say, spamming clear mind on each other over and over and not actually attack anything.

Ah that makes sense. It was a real shame though, obviously the method would only work with plant or mind later on but you didn't need much apart from the confuse power and a little aoe to rake in the xp and tickets. Not cebr type no slotting efficiency but pretty good. Worked very well for level locking at 35 too - I was obsessed with creating builds that would exemplar well so was always hunting for those.

On topic, i can't speak for the end game incarnate stuff as I never went anywhere near it but for the rest of the game I couldn't believe how good plant trollers were. Lots of secondary's worked well with plant but storm was probably my favourite from a fun point of view. Really struggled for end though!

Charged Mastermind

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2014, 08:21:50 PM »
I really liked Fire/Kin. VERY popular on Victory but I didn't see them as much as others on other servers. It had a decent power output to do solo missions and enough support for team play, and I found it fairly easy to use

Arcana

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2014, 11:27:01 PM »
Also worth noting, using the rad heal completely stops your damage output for its activation time, as opposed to TG which you guys have already covered as having a certain amount of effective dps. Not necessarily a big deal, but if you have to hit whatever heal you've got very often, I would prefer to be getting damage out of it.

True, but we've been flipping back and forth between comparing Rad and Dark on offensive benefit and defensive benefit.  I think a more interesting analysis would focus on the sustainable effort possible from both sets.  Let me throw this out for discussion purposes.

To defeat a level 50 even conning AV you need to be able to deliver 28272 points of damage on top of (or neutralizing) its 94.24 h/s regeneration.  You also need to survive the AV.  Its difficult to estimate the average damage output of an AV, but a handy rule of thumb is that most single target attacks deal about 0.15 DS/sec when handed to a critter, based on cycle time and AI issues.  As a practical matter, most AVs have about 4 *usable* attacks when attacking a single player, and on average one of them is an AoE which tends to reduce the per-target damage per second by about 3 (on average AoEs are balanced around hitting about 3 targets, although this varies by attack).  A rough estimate, then, is that an AV might average about (3 * 0.15 + 0.15/3) * 874.66 = 437.33 dps not counting tohit, and about 328 dps factoring in baseline tohit of 75%.  At range, that number drops to (3 * 0.15 + 0.15/3) * 524.79 = 262.4 dps raw and about 196.8 dps at baseline tohit of 75%.

These numbers "feel" about right, in that they say that an unprotected level 50 player running no real defenses might be expected to live for about 4-5 seconds standing next to a level 50 AV and taking aggro, and about 6-8 seconds at range.

Those are big numbers.  The question is, when Dark and Rad are built to mitigate that much damage, how much gas is left in the tank to actually kill the AV?  Both of them likely be, when maximizing survivability to survive that much damage, doing some secondary damage or regeneration debuff on the AV to help offense, but ultimately you'll still have to generate some offense to defeat the AV.  In terms of both endurance efficiency and available activation time, which set offers the best options past that point?  I'm not exactly sure thinking about the numbers.

This gets back to why Ill/Rad is considered the best AV/GM combo.  Perma-PA immediately solves an enormous problem right off the bat.  Once you solve that problem, all you have to do is reduce AV/GM regeneration enough to make it a matter of attrition, and LR is strong enough to do that and simple enough to use.  Dark is a much more complex set to analyze (as we've seen) and also requires two very tricky elements to function correctly.  It needs to use Soul Absorption to get into the same sustainable endurance class as Rad, but SA is a PBAoE: more dangerous to use than AM.  Second, it relies in part on the Dark Servant, and that's an unpredictable ally: it doesn't always use its powers efficiently, and it can get itself killed.

If anything, these calculations seem to muddy the waters a lot, but it still appears to me that /Rad is a much simpler set to build around and manage as an AV-killer, while Dark, even if its capable of eclipsing Rad in some situations, requires a lot of shepherding to get there.  In other words, Rad seems to be good-enough, and more straight forward.

That's not to denigrate /Dark, which appears to be capable of equaling or even exceeding /Rad in some areas.  There's no question its a *capable* AV-killing support set.

blacksly

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2014, 01:02:40 AM »
If anything, these calculations seem to muddy the waters a lot, but it still appears to me that /Rad is a much simpler set to build around and manage as an AV-killer, while Dark, even if its capable of eclipsing Rad in some situations, requires a lot of shepherding to get there.  In other words, Rad seems to be good-enough, and more straight forward.

That's a good summary. Dark has higher theoretical numbers (in some ways by far), but even without endurance questions there are constant hiccups in its numbers, which require skill and practice to manage. Rad is very straightforward, has good early performance, and good top-end performance.

I still like Earth/Thermal, BTW, as a cute contender in the "straightforward, simple build" category, just because it's such an unknown combination.

Also... Poison's Poison Trap.... is the -1000% Recovery debuff shown in Mid's accurate? City of Titans has it as a -100% debuff with a 10 Magnitude, is that the same thing as a -1000% against an AV (resisted to -150%, heh), and if not, what does the 10 Magnitude mean for it? Because if it really is -1000%, then I see Electric/Poison as a really interesting AV-killer option.

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #98 on: September 21, 2014, 01:11:56 AM »
I had an Earth/Thermal Controller with just plain Vanilla IOS and SOs, and decided to try to solo the level 44 AntiMatter. (I was in that range.)

Stone Phillip and I were able to stalemate him alright, but we didn't have the power to put him away till I busted out a Shivan. Still, I was pleased at just how tough the Stone Pet was.

Microcosm

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Re: Best Controller
« Reply #99 on: September 21, 2014, 01:37:40 AM »
Should we muddy the waters even more and add ill/cold vs ill/rad? Same -regen from benumb as from lingering radiation (longer recharge though), along with also reducing an AV's heal ability, which could be pretty beneficial depending on the AV. At the levels of recharge we're talking about, cold dom would not have to worry about endurance problems like the other two, and pumps out a bunch more -res with Sleet (which you can stack more than one patch, like tar patch) and Heat Loss. Sleet also adds a fair amount of its own damage.

Not sure if the extra -res makes up for less -regen, but it's probably a contender either way.