Author Topic: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...  (Read 6093 times)

Tenzhi

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Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« on: August 25, 2014, 06:06:12 PM »
A few weeks ago I was put in the mood for a Star Trek series, and TNG, DS9, and the original (including the animated series) were all too prevalent in my mind to sate my appetite.  This left me the choice between Voyager and Enterprise.  I started and failed to keep watching both series when they came out.  I chose to give Voyager another shot simply because of the familiar uniforms.

As I enter season 7 and approach the end, I have to say that the series wasn't quite as awful as it seemed coming fresh from DS9 and TNG.  But it's been pretty bad.  And it's not just that I feel like I should have kept track of how many episodes were completely pointless because by the end of them they hadn't really happened.  Or that there seemed to be an inordinate amount of 'filler' episodes.  No, the entire series is bad because of several episodes in season six involving those Borg children.  Those are the worst characters I've ever seen in a Star Trek series or movie.  They taint the whole series.
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Eoraptor

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 06:23:46 PM »
Voyager went off the rails pretty early in its run, and never got back on track. The original over-arching premise of the series was going to be more similar to both DS9 and Babylon 5, in that the environment itself was a character the same way that DS9 and the B5 station and world it orbited contributed directly to the storyline. The USS Voyager was supposed to accumulate damage and become an increasing hodgepodge of federation and alien technologies; thus alternately helping and hindering the equally hodge-podge crew.

This idea was mostly jettisoned by the end of season one and would only rarely be revisited with the various "borrowed alien engine of the week" episodes ad those two times someone stole parts of the ship. Which left numerous plot holes for the writing crew to try to gloss over such as 'where do they keep getting shuttles and warp cores and computer parts from to keep this state of the art federation ship looking pristine?" And yeah, by the time you get to season six and seven with the borg orphans and the holodeck romance novel, the writers had pretty much given their last fuck long ago.

For my money, season 4 of Enterprise offers a far better watching experience. They finally got off of that assinine "temporal cold war" story and started doing what the show was supposed to be about; following the progress of humans form "Earth" to "United Federation of Planets." They also brought in much better writers and directors who had previously worked on ds9 and tng, which certainly helped. Sadly, the damage to the viewership had already been done and no one was tuning in after being subjected to three seasons of vulcan soap operas and "why the hell are there borg and ferengi in the 22 century?!" episodes.
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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 08:08:45 PM »
"Tuvix", the best ST: Voyager episode, better than many of the STNG or even STO episodes.   

There was plenty to like about the series but it was muddled up with incongruities for the sake of keeping the veiwer off balance.

Not really a good plan when you are trying to get the audience to care about the characters.

I enjoyed Enterprise far more as it was not weighted down with the typical Star Trek malaise. Which is why it failed, it lacked the Trekiness everyone was expecting. The audience was not prepped for the premise of a proto-Federation getting its start. Unfortunate really.
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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 01:43:30 AM »
"Tuvix", the best ST: Voyager episode, better than many of the STNG or even STO episodes.   

There was plenty to like about the series but it was muddled up with incongruities for the sake of keeping the veiwer off balance.

Not really a good plan when you are trying to get the audience to care about the characters.

I enjoyed Enterprise far more as it was not weighted down with the typical Star Trek malaise. Which is why it failed, it lacked the Trekiness everyone was expecting. The audience was not prepped for the premise of a proto-Federation getting its start. Unfortunate really.

Yes. Always made me laugh when people would whine about Archer and crew breaking the Prime Directive. What Prime Directive? The various mistakes made by Archer's crew is where the Prime Directive came from. And let's be honest, the other captains ignored the damn thing themselves when it suited them.

Even though I grew up with TNG, DS9, and VOY, ENT was always my favorite. Yeah, Seasons 1 and 2 are pretty rough. So were Seasons 1 and 2 of every other series too.

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 03:04:45 AM »
Very odd that this thread would pop up right as I was going back and watching them also. It was the only one of the TV series (not counting the cartoons that I've mentally blocked out) that I was so indifferent about that I've not watched them all.
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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 04:04:01 AM »
Yes. Always made me laugh when people would whine about Archer and crew breaking the Prime Directive. What Prime Directive? The various mistakes made by Archer's crew is where the Prime Directive came from. And let's be honest, the other captains ignored the damn thing themselves when it suited them.

Even though I grew up with TNG, DS9, and VOY, ENT was always my favorite. Yeah, Seasons 1 and 2 are pretty rough. So were Seasons 1 and 2 of every other series too.

I think one of the best things to come out of Voyager was a decent explination of why Kirk was so cavalier about the Prime directive, and why he was allowed to get away with so often.  They were out there on their own, communicationwith Star fleet HQ was difficult and took time.  Also the Federation was new, not that many ships, and they were at war with two empires.  They often shot first and went for their guns more often, because if you didn't shoot first, you very often didn't get a chance to shoot at all.

Which was an attitude I was always disappointed they didn't adopt. A few quantum torpedoes and a bit of bluster would make people like the Kazon think twice before messing with them.  The first few encounters, sure be nice.  After they prove themselves untrustworthy. The nice "We're explorers... really" goes out the window
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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 05:31:11 AM »
I had hope that they would do a Klingon Empire spin-off.

But frankly, the writers were making klingons a bit sillier with each passing episode they appeared in. I think it was a bet to see how far they could go. And that's why a stand-alone would not have worked. Too much retconing to do.  :'(
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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 07:30:26 AM »
My only issues with Voyager were Jar Jar errrr... Neelix, that Harry Kim never got a promotion and how ridiculous it was that Seven was thrust upon every situation because fanboys thought she was hot.

Of course, it helps that the Borg are my favorite race, and I actually like Janeway as captain.  But you folks are right, the show could have been a lot better if those useless filler episodes didn't happen.

Tenzhi

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2014, 09:49:16 AM »
I liked Neelix.  But, then, I also liked the oft-reviled Wesley Crusher (up til he became an angry soon-to-be demigod).
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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2014, 02:04:48 PM »
The characters on the show represented popular personas of a bygone era, especially the 50's and 60's:
Janeway=Katherine Hepburn
Chakotay=Jay Silverheels
B'Elanna=Mary Tyler Moore
Tom=James Dean
Doctor=Mr. Wizard/Dr. Kildare
Kim=ANY asian sidekick of any era
Neelix and Tuvok=Laurel and Hardy/Abbott and Costello
Seven of Nine=Gloria Steinem
Kes=Any child star of the era

This gave the characters a framework to develop within.
Fun, if you knew what they were doing.
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doc7924

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 02:53:30 PM »
I have to agree. I HATED watching Voyager when it started an stopped watching half way thru the first season. I would watch the odd time travel episode over the years as I like those. Plus I have some episodes in those collections - Borg, Q, etc.

Recently I decided to watch them all since I realized I had like 7 years of a Star Trek show I never really watched much.

It was not as awful I as I thought it would be. Yes a lot of times in was preachy and annoying and Janeway's  obsession with 7 of 9 was a bit much, but on the whole it was entertaining.

Still the worst of the shows IMO but not horrible.

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2014, 07:00:56 PM »
I had hope that they would do a Klingon Empire spin-off.

But frankly, the writers were making klingons a bit sillier with each passing episode they appeared in. I think it was a bet to see how far they could go. And that's why a stand-alone would not have worked. Too much retconing to do.  :'(

My fear about a Klingon show is based on the way they treated other races. They introduced a race, and changed them over time. By the time DS9 ends, the Ferengi are on their way to becoming Feddies in Ferengi costumes. The Cardassians, who started as formidable opponents, are softened by the introduction of a fifth-column movement. The Borg, another fearsome opponent, are contaminated and changed by the Hugh incident. The DS9 crew actually worked on a mission with a Jem'Hadar team to stop a renegade Jem'Hadar team. A lot of those changes are due to their desire to address social issues (or, as I think of it, "beat the viewer over the head with their viewpoint on social issues"): the Jem'Hadar, Borg and Cardassians because they want to show that "enemies" become less feared when you know them, and the Ferengi because they insist that capitalism is evil and based on greed.

I'm convinced that, if they made a Klingon show, their warrior society and mentality would be softened over time, because war is bad. By the end of the series' run, the Klingon heart as we know it would no longer exist, and they'd no longer be the Klingons that people loved enough to want a series about them. While I, too, would be interested in a Klingon series, I'm afraid of its being ruined by having social activists behind it.
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Super Firebug

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2014, 07:05:24 PM »
With Voyager, I had the distinct impression that they saw anything shorter than a seven-season run as an admission of failure to create a good series. They were so determined to get it across that finish line that lots of episodes feel like they "got out and pushed", so to speak, when the show ran out of gas.

And I very much wish that they hadn't replaced Kes with the sexpot Seven of Nine - an obvious ploy to boost ratings by hormonal manipulation. I actually found Kes much more attractive.
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houtex

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 01:58:45 AM »
I found Seven to be the better character than Kes.  Kes turned out to be just... well, there.  Neelix's bestie, and that's about it.  Until she returned, that is.  THAT was awesome.  Fun, the insane bitch come to slaughter you all.  Sweet.

Anyway, Seven's de-borgification back to, while not Anna, but more human than Borg, and still work with the ship's crew, that was more fascinating, character-wise.

The biggest 'wut?' about her was the 'romance' between Chakotay and Seven.  That was... seriously bad, and obviously forced.  Badly done by the writers.  The Doc and Seven made more sense to me.

Best character was The Doctor, obviously.  But Seven was a good second.  And Tom Paris was just fun to watch sometimes.

Well, heck, while I'm at it...

Chakotay - Wasted opportunities, all the time.

Harry Kim - Dude was green, but still got things done... but no promotions!?  WTF, Janeway?!

B'Elanna Torres - Good stable character.  Yeah, I know, mixed human-Klingon, so fiesty... but Scott-ette did the job.

Neelix - Comedic relief, for the most part... destresser character, mainly, but I liked it when they got serious with his story.

Which brings me to...

Tuvok - Vulcan security officer?  Huh?  That.. makes sense?  K... And what seemed to be the thing was this:

Janeway: "We need to escape/figure out/do something/whatever... suggestions?"

Nobody speaks... then...

Tuvok: "We could demodulate/reinitialize/beam down/try to reason/whatever, as that's the logical course of action, Captain."

NOW someone speaks up...

Other officer: "Or, we could (whatever would be sort of the opposite of what Tuvok says)!"

Janeway: "Oh, that's perfect.  We'll do that, what Tuvok didn't say."

Every. Dang. Time.

For a woman and captain who holds Tuvok so close as a friend and co-worker... she doesn't respect him nearly enough.

Of course, the thing Tuvok says would have destroyed the ship, seems, as the episode unfurled, so I guess she knew he's an idiot Vulcan, and humors him because it's cute or something?

I'll never get that.

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 02:20:50 AM »
I hated Dark Phoenix Kes.  And I initially hated Seven for replacing Kes, then I was okay with it, and THEN there were Borg children and the awful Chakotay romance.

But, yeah, throughout it all the Doctor was the best character.
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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2014, 02:50:25 AM »
I liked the Doctor so much because his character developed more dramatically from the first episode to the end.

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2014, 01:32:42 AM »
Doctor was the Data stand-in for sentient AI.

Neelix and Kes were the outsiders.

B'Ellana and Chakotay were the rebels.

Tuvok was the token Vulcan.

Tom Paris was the dashing rogue.  If this was a WWII series he would have been the black market scrounger.  Neelix got that job initially but he was better suited as an ambassador for that region.

Harry was the newbie caught between Tom and Janeway for how things should get done.

And Janeway, she was just a stick in the mud.  I'm still angry that she didn't declare herself as Titania in the Fair Haven/Spirit Folk episodes.  Not like she hadn't played that character before.   ;)

You knew Kes was a goner, they made a point that her race was short lived.

7 of 9 was interesting and yes her sprayed on body suit was a draw.  She was the emotional "Vulcan".  Pragmatic but as her humanity returned she occasionally let her emotions get the better of her.

As for the Janeway/Tuvok interactions.  Well it was established that they worked together before.  If she always took his opinion and not let others suggest courses of action it could be seen as favoritism and out in the middle of unknown space you need your crew to respect you.  Plus Tuvok's suggestions were rarely outside the box.
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Magus Prime

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2014, 08:48:03 AM »
After watching the new Cosmos, there really needs to be another Star Trek series.  I kept wanting a federation ship to do a fly-by behind Neil Degrasse Tyson. 

And before anyone deigns to remind me, yes I'm well aware that Messrs. Seth Green and Brannon Braga were involved in producing the show.  Both of whom were very involved in Star Trek in one form or another.

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2014, 01:59:20 AM »
Just to be a nit-picker...

Seth Green has nothing to do with either Cosmos or Star Trek.

Seth MacFarlane has all of one small bit role to do with Star Trek: Enterprise (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Seth_MacFarlane) in two episodes, although he's said to want to reboot the franchise on TV.  (The movies are taking care that doesn't happen just yet, I'd wager.)  He is a big fan, of course, of Trek, as well as Star Wars, and is a Sci-Fi fan in general.
 
He was involved with Cosmos as an executive producer, along with Ann Druyan (Carl Sagan's widow), AND he's a huge science geek, having donated the money to allow the Library of Congress to acquire the papers of Carl Sagan from Ann Druyan, as well as open a wing, named after Seth, Carl and Ann, to hold the display of the collection:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/wp/2013/11/12/science-geek-seth-macfarlane-donates-to-carl-sagans-notes-collection/

Brannon Braga, of course, is a long time producer of many things, which include, of course, Star Trek in it's various series form on the TV.

And Alan Silvestri, naturally, not only did Cosmos' soundtrack, but also did Forrest Gump, Back to the Future, Judge Dredd, T.J. Hooker, Predator, The Avengers, CHiPs, and of course Contact, which more than explains why he was tapped for Cosmos, and why it sounds very similar.

Aand I'm spent for now. :)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 02:15:39 AM by houtex »

Magus Prime

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Re: Been watching Star Trek Voyager...
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2014, 07:39:41 AM »
Yes you are absolutely correct and McFarlane is what I meant to say.  I was running off little sleep and food when I wrote my post.  Still stands that I want a new Trek series on TV and with all the production value that goes into Cosmos.  Alas, I'm aware this is just a pipe dream.  The Star Trek on the big screen is all the Trek we'll be getting apart from fan-made movies.