Cross-Game Mechanics and DDO

[Crater Labs]

This is a really weird question and it's hard to explain just where it came from, but... if you saw a fight about to break out between a Controller (or other class, really) from CoH and a Wizard from DDO (or another class from some other MMO) who would you put your money on?  I'm not familiar enough with DDO (or any non-CoH MMO for that matter) to know how to compare the two, and I've got a really big CoH bias (I keep thinking "Wouldn't the Controller win simply by virtue of having Rez inspirations that drop for free?") but I was wondering if people had enough experience with both games to balance.

If it matters, I'd assume that the Controller has Gravity Control, Force Fields, and Fire Mastery, and probably their choice of Incarnate Powers (so, level 50+++ or something).  I'd guess that the wizard would be similarly close to their highest level as well.  (I'm not sure what the level cap is for DDO, but a quick Google search suggests either 28 or 30 with potential for growing.)

I'd imagine that some comparisons would be simple enough to make (fire powers would translate to magic that generates fire spells or flame damage, and I can't think of a reason for why a "hit point" in one game can't be a "hit point" in another), but there's some obvious gray areas where things wouldn't translate.

Also, if you've got any insights into how a similar combat might go in other games (CoH Tank vs. WoW Paladin?) I'd be down for hearing those insights as well.

This is a weird topic, but I just had a conversation IRL with someone that made me think I should get some insight from people who might know more than I did.

[Aggelakis]

City's Controller would win against almost every single other "crowd control" class in almost every single other game. Because City of Heroes' mezzes were stronger, lasted longer, and stacked (with themselves and from multiple sources). Additionally, most of City's mezzes were full-stop-hard-mez instead of a soft mez that many games have.

[Castegyre]

I've played a lot of MMOs and CC is one of the roles I really enjoy. A class, powerset, AT, whatever, doesn't exist in a vacuum. I think to do a fair comparison the context would have to be taken into account. I know back when I played DAoC most Controllers would have had a hard time keeping up with a Bard and most Dominators would have had an equally hard time keeping up with a Mentalist or a Sorcerer, but that's because different games have different designs. Drop a Bard, Sorcerer, or Mentalist into CoX and they'd probably have an even harder time keeping up because they're built to thrive in a much different environment. In EQ2 whether or not a Controller was even useful in a high end group would largely depend on their secondary, but the EQ2 enchanters would get trounced in CoX. Overall I think CoX CC classes would win out, but I don't think it's a simple question to answer.

[Crater Labs]

I've played a lot of MMOs and CC is one of the roles I really enjoy. A class, powerset, AT, whatever, doesn't exist in a vacuum. I think to do a fair comparison the context would have to be taken into account.

That really is one of the difficult things about this question for me.  I also get the sense that the Controller would definitely win in this kind of fight, but I'm biased and it's hard to get a good comparison in a hypothetical scenario.

[FlyingCarcass]

CoH had very powerful crowd control compared to other MMORPGs.

[eabrace]

This is a really weird question and it's hard to explain just where it came from, but... if you saw a fight about to break out between a Controller (or other class, really) from CoH and a Wizard from DDO (or another class from some other MMO) who would you put your money on?

Probably the Controller.

I was wondering if people had enough experience with both games to balance.

I can probably help with that part.

If it matters, I'd assume that the Controller has Gravity Control, Force Fields, and Fire Mastery, and probably their choice of Incarnate Powers (so, level 50+++ or something).

It would probably be safe to assume that the Wizard is level 28 (current cap - 30 coming later this year.)  One thing that would greatly alter the outcome of this hypothetical altercation is whether or not the Wizard is a pure Wizard or has multiclassed.  A multiclass build would allow the Wizard to add several other variables to the scenario at the cost of losing a few levels of caster ability.  For example, if the Wizard were to take a few splashes of Rogue, the heightened Reflex saves and addition of Evasion would allow for entirely ignoring or negating any of the Controller's AoE abilities.

For the purposes of simplicity, let's assume the Wizard is a pure Wizard.  It would also be safe to assume that the Wizard has maxed out the Magister Epic Destiny and is likely running with that active.

The Wizard is certainly going to be a bit squishier than the Controller since pure arcane casters in DDO typically favor damage and buffing at the expense of survivability (that's why you bring a Fighter, Barbarian, or Paladin along). 

Will saves (used for resisting things like sleep or charms) are Wisdom based, but the Wizard's primary attribute is Intelligence.  In other words, most Wizards dump as many points into Intelligence as possible and largely ignore their Wisdom scores.  While a Wizard's base Wisdom numbers are comparable to a Cleric, for example, the Cleric's primary attribute is Wisdom, so the Cleric would have much higher Will saves.  That being said, unless the Wizard uses Wisdom as a dump stat (more likely it would be Charisma or Strength, probably), the Will save scores would be about average.  And, of course, the Wizard can increase his save numbers with equipped items.  Let's assume that the Wizard has at least enough of a Will save to make it comparable to something in between a CoH Boss and Elite Boss from the Controller's perspective.  Further, there are buffs available (either through casting or equipping items that allow an effect to be granted a number of times per day) that could essentially give the Wizard purple triangles for a period.

One of the biggest advantages the Controller has is stacking.  By applying a hold twice, the hold becomes stronger, making it more difficult for the Wizard to make the necessary save to avoid being held.  The Wizard, on the other hand, cannot stack the same effect twice.  (In fact, even two Wizards casting the same spells cannot stack the same effect, only the higher magnitude effect applies.)

When it's all said and done, I would probably give the advantage to the Controller in a "Best of X" series of fights based primarily on the ability to stack effects.

But in a single match, all it takes is one good random roll for the Wizard to land something like Wail of the Banshee or Power Word: Kill and the Controller faceplants immediately.

Disclaimer:  This was written in a hurry since I'm late leaving the house to go to work, so it wasn't all that well thought out.