Titan Network

Community => Task Force Hail Mary => Topic started by: Vasarto on May 02, 2013, 05:35:55 AM

Title: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Vasarto on May 02, 2013, 05:35:55 AM
Well I first started on these forums quite a while ago.  However I can see that nothing is taking just yet.
Colbert would not reply to any of his snail mail or tweets. Disney ignored us. Google Play is to me not looking good since I really do not imagine them paying attention to it in any way.

I dunno. Unless we can get ourselves a cheap server and somehow build in that and rewrite the code of the game to link to that server instead of the original. I doubt we can get our game back. Its just been so long and with nothing to show for anything other then having a Character creator we cannot even really save on.

Here is what I imagine in the gloomy parts of my mind...because.
It just feels like its going no where and we will be talking about this in October and then during the one year anniversary the handful of people who will still be on these forums throwing some kind of small meaningless event that doesn't do anything or makes anyone pay attention.
Someone makes a video or picture about it and another year later no one is left and this site is shut down....the end.


So can someone say something that will cheer me up a little bit and make me not think that the game shutting off WAS the end and whatever?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Joshex on May 02, 2013, 05:47:29 AM
How dare you consider Unicorning here!! :P

coh is far from dead, it's a legend and legends can't die!

we will bring it back, just as we suspect statesman may some day return to us and stand in that spot in independence port once more sending us off on adventures deep into the heart of the rouge isles to stop the evil recluse!

honestly I call you a unicorn cause what you just said is what NCSoft wants to hear us say.

Well NCSoft, we aren't giving in that easily, we wont quit! I don't care if I'm the last one who cares! cause then it's the perfect time to Sue you with plan ZI Beta.

I'm like that tanker who always stays standing trying to solo and AV no matter how much of the team quits! or I'm like that blaster who goes to the hospital only to come right back!... to return to the hospital again!

don't loose heart Vasarto, Never give up! it's what being a hero is all about!

I have just been inspired, when CoH returns we need an Emote that activates when you go to the hospital or die, the emote will show you wearing lots of cast type bandages but not enough to look like a mummy, then when you move they break off and fall to the floor.

would make for quite a decent comedic loop of an animation about the role blasters play, you have been defeated, hospital for you! (casts annd then they break off) runs of screen and dies and returns with more casts. +EM /sigh :P
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Rotten Luck on May 02, 2013, 06:49:33 AM
Games have been brought back years later.  Sadly Coh won't be coming back SOON.  To say it's dead well like all Comic heroes death is just a rest brake.

One way or another it will return.  Team Wildcard almost done with the Google proposal, we just sitting here waiting for the go ahead to flood their mail boxes with letters.

There still the private server operations.  No idea where they are at, but I have faith they are still trying.

No not dead, more like a coma.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: beveri8469 on May 02, 2013, 07:09:18 AM
when coh does come back,  ill be there pulling the biggest marathon playing the game again loving every minute of it.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: OzonePrime on May 02, 2013, 11:23:15 AM
when coh does come back,  ill be there pulling the biggest marathon playing the game again loving every minute of it.
Oh Yes!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Nightmarer on May 02, 2013, 12:04:52 PM
when coh does come back,  ill be there pulling the biggest marathon playing the game again loving every minute of it.

Dammit, now I'm going to dream about a CoH gaming marathon... again
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: eabrace on May 02, 2013, 01:45:29 PM
I am entirely confident that CoH will eventually rise again.  I certainly don't know when or where it will pop up again, but I'm sure it'll happen.

Nature finds a way, and all that.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: 0nehanklap on May 02, 2013, 02:57:57 PM
The CoX shutdown reminds me, in many ways, of the networks shutdown back in the day of a campy old sci-fi series that "nobody" cared about and no one wanted to support.  I think the name of it was Star Trek.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Sleepy Wonder on May 02, 2013, 05:43:14 PM
Well I first started on these forums quite a while ago.  However I can see that nothing is taking just yet.
Colbert would not reply to any of his snail mail or tweets. Disney ignored us. Google Play is to me not looking good since I really do not imagine them paying attention to it in any way.

I dunno. Unless we can get ourselves a cheap server and somehow build in that and rewrite the code of the game to link to that server instead of the original. I doubt we can get our game back. Its just been so long and with nothing to show for anything other then having a Character creator we cannot even really save on.

Here is what I imagine in the gloomy parts of my mind...because.
It just feels like its going no where and we will be talking about this in October and then during the one year anniversary the handful of people who will still be on these forums throwing some kind of small meaningless event that doesn't do anything or makes anyone pay attention.
Someone makes a video or picture about it and another year later no one is left and this site is shut down....the end.


So can someone say something that will cheer me up a little bit and make me not think that the game shutting off WAS the end and whatever?

Here is my advice. Don't listen to the post below you. Just because you're thinking critically, with reason, and being realistic with yourself doesn't and shouldn't make you a troll.

The best thing you can do is find other things you enjoy doing. CoH can't be the only thing that's ever made you happy. There are plenty of other communities and games out there for you to enjoy, and things in life you can do to better yourself.

Why sit around dreaming and wishing and hoping when you could be doing something productive with your time?

It doesn't mean you have to give up or stop coming here. There are plenty of things you can do to throw in your support.

I don't think the Titan Network is going to go anywhere for years to come, so you're wrong about that. CoH is also not dead. I don't think it ever will be.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Codewalker on May 02, 2013, 05:48:48 PM
...another year later no one is left and this site is shut down....the end.

Highly unlikely. This site was around for years when most people hung out on the official forums and was a very quiet place, maybe getting a couple posts a week. Even if it went back to that it would still be running and those dedicated few would still be here.

Tony has said he has no intention to shut it down, and even in the unlikely event that he changes his mind and deletes everything in an uncharacteristic fit of rage, several of us have backup copies and space that it could be hosted on.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Xieveral on May 02, 2013, 06:42:35 PM
Legal or otherwise, you will have CoH back eventually. My money is on the "otherwise" route bearing results before the legal one, which is unfortunate since some people will miss out because that route conflicts with their morals.

I feel the cause lost momentum because too much time passed waiting on Disney when it could have been better spent looking into other companies and putting together pitches just in case. Even now, it looks like we're just taking all the eggs from the Disney basket and putting them into the Google one. If another six months pass and Google says no (or nothing at all), what's the plan then?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Surelle on May 02, 2013, 07:36:26 PM
Legal or otherwise, you will have CoH back eventually. My money is on the "otherwise" route bearing results before the legal one, which is unfortunate since some people will miss out because that route conflicts with their morals.

I feel the cause lost momentum because too much time passed waiting on Disney when it could have been better spent looking into other companies and putting together pitches just in case. Even now, it looks like we're just taking all the eggs from the Disney basket and putting them into the Google one. If another six months pass and Google says no (or nothing at all), what's the plan then?

To be honest, the only thing that *really* matters is to first get NCSoft to agree to sell the IP.  Everything else is sort of a waste of time without the largest hurdle out of the way first.  And I still think the best way to do that would be to run some CoH "Do you want the next game closed down to be yours?" ads wherever NCSoft runs WildStar, Blade & Soul or other MMO ads.  Believe me, they would notice THAT.  And it would generate a lot of commentary both by mainstream gaming website owners and by gamers at large.

The second place for real effort that would show tangible results would be to back the reverse engineering project and help bring that to fruition.

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Joshex on May 03, 2013, 02:09:06 AM
If another six months pass and Google says no (or nothing at all), what's the plan then?

I know titan network will never support my Plan ZIB, but... can I have.. please have permission to carry out plan ZIB if google = fail?

I'm not suggesting that google will say no, infact I'm suggesting they will say yes, but we can't be sure how stubborn NCSoft will be about it's descision to not sell, google might end up telling us "hey we tried, they said no, sorry we can't legally make them an offer they will accept"

PLEASE can I do my plan ZIB then TonyV? at least it will get the IP out of NCSoft's hands.. in a legal method. I.. I've been holding off cause I don't want to sabatoge TF Hail mary.

I have already talked to several lawyers concerning ZIB, they seemed hopeful. so.. yeah. just give me an opening :D titan network wont be mentioned as a conspirator, for your image's sake.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Taceus Jiwede on May 03, 2013, 03:21:47 AM
I know titan network will never support my Plan ZIB, but... can I have.. please have permission to carry out plan ZIB if google = fail?

I'm not suggesting that google will say no, infact I'm suggesting they will say yes, but we can't be sure how stubborn NCSoft will be about it's descision to not sell, google might end up telling us "hey we tried, they said no, sorry we can't legally make them an offer they will accept"

PLEASE can I do my plan ZIB then TonyV? at least it will get the IP out of NCSoft's hands.. in a legal method. I.. I've been holding off cause I don't want to sabatoge TF Hail mary.

I have already talked to several lawyers concerning ZIB, they seemed hopeful. so.. yeah. just give me an opening :D titan network wont be mentioned as a conspirator, for your image's sake.

Joshex you do not need permission from anyone if you can legally get the IP out of NCSoft hands.  That is literally the one and only thing stoping CoH from coming back.  If you can do it, go do it.  Start right now  If what you say is true then please get on it.  Really that is the ONE thing that is stopping us.  Im sure we could find 10 buyers in a month once we have the IP.  However I am sorry but I don't believe that you are capable of it when no one else has been.  But please prove me wrong, I beg you to prove me wrong I would never be so happy to be wrong.

To the OP:  I don't believe the game is dead yet, like mentioned above all heroes come back in comic books.  Sometimes things just take awhile.  I am still dealing with stuff that happened 4 years ago in my life and will continue dealing with those things for another 2 years, at least.  So sometimes things just take awhile.  Get comfy, ill bring the popcorn
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Blondeshell on May 03, 2013, 04:10:30 AM
Nature finds a way, and all that.

@Joshex: Spare no expense.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Omega Mark V on May 03, 2013, 02:41:04 PM
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Joshex on May 03, 2013, 03:58:58 PM
Joshex you do not need permission from anyone if you can legally get the IP out of NCSoft hands.  That is literally the one and only thing stoping CoH from coming back.  If you can do it, go do it.  Start right now  If what you say is true then please get on it.  Really that is the ONE thing that is stopping us.  Im sure we could find 10 buyers in a month once we have the IP.  However I am sorry but I don't believe that you are capable of it when no one else has been.  But please prove me wrong, I beg you to prove me wrong I would never be so happy to be wrong.

To the OP:  I don't believe the game is dead yet, like mentioned above all heroes come back in comic books.  Sometimes things just take awhile.  I am still dealing with stuff that happened 4 years ago in my life and will continue dealing with those things for another 2 years, at least.  So sometimes things just take awhile.  Get comfy, ill bring the popcorn
@Joshex: Spare no expense.

great! will do, however I do it as an individual not in affiliation with titan network. (sorry need to make that clear every time due to requests from the admins)

cause no company will like a game title if the entire fan base opened a class action lawsuit to get the game IP lol, so I'll go it allone, I have some things to finish before I go to court, namely get a job and posibly take another trip to china for a bit, or edinburgh where ever my girlfriend wants me to visit.

after that I will be free to start the legal proceedings, plus that will give us time to see what google can do. I figure about 1 month and I can be sueing.

mmm this is the first time I've ever felt so anxious and on the edge of my seat to walk into a lawyers office lol, last time I talked to a lawyer and a paralegal who came into my restaurant. anyways I'll post another thread with the results of going into a lawyer's office in about a month.

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Triplash on May 03, 2013, 04:04:48 PM
The only way CoH would actually "die" is if the community would give up hope

The first job I ever had was as an assistant to a financial planner. She's odd in a lot of ways, but there's a lot of wisdom in there too. And she said one thing that really stayed with me.

While her kids were growing up they had next to no money, but she made it a point to make sure the kids understood that they were broke, not poor. Because, she said, "Broke is having no money, but poor is having no hope."

A few years ago she got tired of paying someone else to rent an office, so she built her own building. Now she rents out offices to other people (and donates a large conference room to local artists and non-profit groups).

She's far from broke these days. And it's all because she refused to ever admit that she was poor.

Don't give up hope, Vasarto. We're not done yet. Big plans just take longer to realize, that's all.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: johnrobey on May 05, 2013, 08:31:32 AM
Personally, i am waiting for one or both of the current Plans Z to launch before CoH returns; however, I still remain confident CoH will return.  We are only now at six months, half of a year.  These things usually take time, and even six months isn't much time at all when one considers that Team Wildcard made the pitch to Disney and got us all to stand behind it.   Yeah, okay we didn't catch Colbert's interest and the Google plans may or may not pan out.  Even as we are waiting here on Titan, I feel certain the other monied interests know we want CoH back.  The Industry is not blind to us.  TonyV relayed the message the Devs sent on the recent Anniversary.  Personally, that kind of humor appeals to me, but I believe we can also hold fast to the notion that the Devs would also network in the Gaming Industry and are on our side too.  I appreciate that you are missing City of Heroes, Vasarto, but we really need to give this a lot more time like 1-2 full years at least.  So what is important is to keep hope and spirits flying while we work to get our city back!  I could tell you what I have been doing instead of gaming, but it might not be your "cup of tea" and otherwise make for really dull reading, but keep active, develop your other interests (both gaming and non-gaming interests) and remember, as annoying as it is, Patience is a virtue, a fruit of long cultivation.  Have as good a day as possible and don't let those turkeys at NCSoft or anywhere else rain on your parade.  It's not worth giving them the satisfaction, particularly since in the long run, I believe we are going to win; it's just going to take some time--no, not geologic time but time according to the business world's schedule.  /em holdtorch and Best Wishes, Vasarto!! 

[insert here my clever graphic of Captain Time-Stop frozen in a single moment of time.]
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: johnrobey on May 05, 2013, 08:37:59 AM
I know titan network will never support my Plan ZIB, but... can I have.. please have permission to carry out plan ZIB if google = fail?

I'm not suggesting that google will say no, infact I'm suggesting they will say yes, but we can't be sure how stubborn NCSoft will be about it's descision to not sell, google might end up telling us "hey we tried, they said no, sorry we can't legally make them an offer they will accept"

PLEASE can I do my plan ZIB then TonyV? at least it will get the IP out of NCSoft's hands.. in a legal method. I.. I've been holding off cause I don't want to sabatoge TF Hail mary.

I have already talked to several lawyers concerning ZIB, they seemed hopeful. so.. yeah. just give me an opening :D titan network wont be mentioned as a conspirator, for your image's sake.

@Joshex, I just finished watching The Muppets 2011.   I hope your plan is nothing like Miss Piggy's method of securing a celebrity guest for the show!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: sinister8088 on May 06, 2013, 03:44:16 AM
I don't know what I'm talking about.  Forget it.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Night-Hawk07 on May 06, 2013, 05:06:10 AM
The CoX shutdown reminds me, in many ways, of the networks shutdown back in the day of a campy old sci-fi series that "nobody" cared about and no one wanted to support.  I think the name of it was Star Trek.

And then there's Firefly....

Sorry, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of person (most of the time). :P
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CG on May 06, 2013, 05:34:09 PM
And then there's Firefly....

Sorry, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of person (most of the time). :P
Give it 20 years...  ;)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JetFlash on May 06, 2013, 06:05:40 PM
And then there's Firefly....

Sorry, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of person (most of the time). :P

They did get a movie....
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Mistress Urd on May 06, 2013, 08:28:12 PM
These things happen at the speed of business which is light years faster than the speed of government.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TigerKnight on May 06, 2013, 11:05:26 PM
I can understand from where the OP is coming from. I come up here daily to see what is going on and holding faith as hard as I can that everything that can be done to help save COH is being done to save COH. However, as of late the two main leaders of the COH campaign, TonyV and Mercedes Lackey, have fallen off the board nearly completely these last two weeks.

Now don't get me wrong. I know Ms. Lackey had a death in the family about a month ago and she's been in mourning and if she still needs more time, I can understand that. But I hope that this is only a break and not simply the end of her in this battle. In so far as TonyV, I'm just guessing real life stuff has him severely tied up at the moment but he disappeared around the same time. So if you have an army, and the first and second in command BOTH disappear, you have to believe that your army's morale is going to be shaken and I hope that one or both can return soon before the "Army" turns into a few guys playing cards around a table just hanging around to tell them  it's over when they get back.

In so far as those who stepped up in their places, I appreciate the effort. I also understand real life affects you too. However, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. People here could really use some good news or some motivational speech or SOMETHING to fight the feelings of this being the end. Something as simple as "We expect to have the proposal done...... (some time frame)" would be at least something than coming up here day after day and seeing nothing.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Rae on May 07, 2013, 09:16:22 AM
You mean like this one?  ;)

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7899.msg115677.html#msg115677
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: dwturducken on May 07, 2013, 02:53:21 PM
So, silly question: is it time to start writing to Google?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: srmalloy on May 07, 2013, 04:38:27 PM
These things happen at the speed of business which is light years faster than the speed of government.

The speed of government depends on how widespread the outrage is, how much it will affect their re-election chances, and how much a situation affects them personally. Look, for example, how fast Congress acted to alter how the FAA was affected by the sequester, removing the flat across-the-board requirement for cuts, once air-traffic controllers began to be furloughed. The public outrage from the sudden spike in flight delays (and the inevitability of them being affected by these same delays when they flew home for the upcoming spring break) drove Congress to pass -- in mere days -- an exception granting the FAA the ability to shuffle funds around to keep ATCs working.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Rae on May 07, 2013, 04:43:51 PM
So, silly question: is it time to start writing to Google?

Not quite yet.

I believe the plan is to coincide it with the advertising campaign being organised elsewhere on these boards. Quinch can tell me if I'm wrong, though :)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on May 07, 2013, 05:45:48 PM
Well I first started on these forums quite a while ago.  However I can see that nothing is taking just yet.
Colbert would not reply to any of his snail mail or tweets. Disney ignored us. Google Play is to me not looking good since I really do not imagine them paying attention to it in any way.

I dunno. Unless we can get ourselves a cheap server and somehow build in that and rewrite the code of the game to link to that server instead of the original. I doubt we can get our game back. Its just been so long and with nothing to show for anything other then having a Character creator we cannot even really save on.

Here is what I imagine in the gloomy parts of my mind...because.
It just feels like its going no where and we will be talking about this in October and then during the one year anniversary the handful of people who will still be on these forums throwing some kind of small meaningless event that doesn't do anything or makes anyone pay attention.
Someone makes a video or picture about it and another year later no one is left and this site is shut down....the end.


So can someone say something that will cheer me up a little bit and make me not think that the game shutting off WAS the end and whatever?

Well depends on definition of death. Is it dead in the regards that we knew it right now at this moment? Is Kirk Cobain dead?

But on the other hand even ol kirk lives on through the music he released and his fans, like cox and you have nirvana tribute bands as there are said to be emulators in the works with the project zs. But unlike a person a game can revived like the Church off of pet semetary but even then Church wasn't the same depending again on what definition. He was still a cat, he still had somewhat gray fur but on the inside the cat they knew wasn't there. With cox it might come back from the dead but all that made it cox in some peoples eyes as they stated may not be the same cox as they knew it even if ncsoft took it out the grave and made it move around.

So in some definitions cox is as dead as dead can get. Other definitions its still alive and well just waiting around for a new body.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Cinnder on May 07, 2013, 06:42:36 PM
Well depends on definition of death. Is it dead in the regards that we knew it right now at this moment? Is Kirk Cobain dead?

No, Kirk Cobain is still alive in the Nexus, unaware that he's trapped there.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: dwturducken on May 07, 2013, 07:35:07 PM
No, Kirk Cobain is still alive in the Nexus, unaware that he's trapped there.

Now I have to reread About A Boy.

It's Kurt. :)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TigerKnight on May 09, 2013, 10:15:32 AM
You mean like this one?  ;)

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7899.msg115677.html#msg115677

You know, not to split hairs or anything like that, but it would have probably been better to start a new topic with "It's Finished" rather than posting in an old thread that's a few pages too long.

But I'm really glad to hear it did get completed and sent out.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Rae on May 09, 2013, 05:16:06 PM
I'll bear that in mind.

Although it hadn't been sent out, yet. We are going to tie it to the advertising campaign and website, (unless I am told any different) for a two pronged approach, and hopefully more impact. :-)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on May 09, 2013, 06:18:04 PM
If CoH did come back, it should be for the Amiga x1000 platform.

For me, that would be the most fitting...

Sigh.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: eabrace on May 09, 2013, 08:02:49 PM
Aw.  My Amiga is only a 500.  :)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on May 09, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
Amiga 1000 FTW!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: dwturducken on May 10, 2013, 11:51:27 AM
I found another piece to my grandfather's old Heathkit while I was doing some work in his attic, yesterday. Time to get busy on that text adventure version of the game!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: RioJustice on May 12, 2013, 02:50:22 AM
Joshex you do not need permission from anyone if you can legally get the IP out of NCSoft hands.  That is literally the one and only thing stoping CoH from coming back.  If you can do it, go do it.  Start right now  If what you say is true then please get on it.  Really that is the ONE thing that is stopping us.  Im sure we could find 10 buyers in a month once we have the IP.  However I am sorry but I don't believe that you are capable of it when no one else has been.  But please prove me wrong, I beg you to prove me wrong I would never be so happy to be wrong.

To the OP:  I don't believe the game is dead yet, like mentioned above all heroes come back in comic books.  Sometimes things just take awhile.  I am still dealing with stuff that happened 4 years ago in my life and will continue dealing with those things for another 2 years, at least.  So sometimes things just take awhile.  Get comfy, ill bring the popcorn

From this viewpoint it could be surmised that CoH could be brought back with frenzied anticipation in the same way as Ironman III made record profits recently.  Just an idea, but from a marketing standpoint I wouldn't wait too long...
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Lycantropus on May 12, 2013, 09:08:06 AM
I found another piece to my grandfather's old Heathkit while I was doing some work in his attic, yesterday. Time to get busy on that text adventure version of the game!

Didn't Matt "Positron" Miller already do that?

It was awesome. Can't wait for the sequel, maybe with a little longer storyline this time.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: dwturducken on May 12, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
I don't recall it being a full game. I thought they put out some screenies from a "found game" for April Fool's a few years ago. It's not like this is my first priority, but it seems like a fun exercise, along with trying to see how much I can build using existing assets (likely just textures) from the .pigg files in another engine. All while I'm also working and going to school. I would actually expect results from Joshex and Codewalker before you see anything from me. Oh, and both Plan Z projects. Also that other thing that  Aviticus Gladius is working on with his existing engine and studio.

Yeah, don't pin any hopes on me. If I had any real ability yet, I'd be putting it toward one of the Plan Z projects. :)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Jaybonaut on June 27, 2013, 04:58:19 AM
Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on June 27, 2013, 05:54:38 AM
Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.

Well....not exactly.


While most things havent quite panned out as many hoped, and was the most likely result even though back then, most aint want to hear none of it, it wasnt all failure. At least three games are still on and in the making.

It's a little bit more quieter as really, I think, the truth of the matter have mostly set in and it's went from pure euphoria hope to a little bit more realistic hope and not only hoping, but actually getting down to it and realizing that NCSoft is not going to all of a sudden sink over night and in a term of surrender they sell the IP to some white knight in shining armor of a company and the lights come back on as if nothing happened and all the players play everly ever after. It's the point where I think it's mostly realization that NCSoft wil live, on and it's up to us to keep COX alive in one manner or another through the games being made. But either way, it will take some years, I think one is near kickstarter soon, and others are becoming more tangible in the work being done.


I say stick around, you'll see tidbits of updates, every fri. iirc from H&V and either Monday or Tues from TPP, and Valience post updates here and there too.


But as far as the return of the actual COX, things just didnt work out yet, but dont count it out yet, still awaiting Google reply. But again,  it's a very long shot and that may too not work out but it's a bit too early to say for sure right now.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Captain Electric on June 27, 2013, 06:07:06 AM
Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.

You know, I just have this image of you coming in after months and months, and tapping your foot impatiently at the people who rolled up their sleeves and got to work. There are all kinds of efforts going on, some more obvious and some less obvious, but frankly, I don't see any reason why you ought to be clued in. Why don't you just carry on; if there's any substantive news, I'm sure it'll find its way to you eventually.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TonyV on June 27, 2013, 06:11:14 AM
Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Yes, this is exactly correct, there have been absolutely no new developments whatsoever.  We've just been sitting around doing nothing, and have absolutely nothing new or interesting to show for the time spent.  :roll:
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Electric-Knight on June 27, 2013, 08:42:29 AM
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn5.movieclips.com%2Fmgm%2Ft%2Fthe-princess-bride-1987%2F0523106_1800_MC_Tx304.jpg)


CoH: "To blathe..."
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on June 27, 2013, 01:13:19 PM
well now, lets not jump the gun on this guy.


I think he literally mean (after re-reading it a few times) the return of actual COX, aka the actual original game. There really havent been much news on it or any sign much that it's actually returning, the original actual game.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Segev on June 27, 2013, 01:39:06 PM
Yes, please, let's not jump on somebody coming in and looking around, seeing the dust of several projects, at least two of which have moved elsewhere for the bulk of their work, and wondering if the detritus left behind combined with the lack of a ticker-tape parade celebrating CoH's return is a sign that "it's over."

It's not an unreasonable assumption, and he took the time to come in and ASK rather than just sticking to that assumption. Please, everybody, do not enter into the all-too-easy trap of becoming the frustrated worker who feels that not being recognized immediately for his labors is a personal sleight. It isn't. This is a labor of love for all of us; we do not do it for the accolades, so do not be upset when we don't GET accolades from everybody who comes in.

This is not to insult nor berate those of us who are still here, either, so please don't let my slightly sharp tone sting too much.

We need people returning and looking for signs of life to find welcoming arms and encouragement. The Phoenix Project (one of the Plan Z efforts to produce a successor game) is actively trying to recruit to its community base (not its contributor corps, its audience!) because a Kickstarter is scheduled for Sept. 8, and we want to have the biggest pool of potential players ready to back us as possible. The more, the closer to our true eventual kick-off audience, the less each needs to contribute on average to help us meet our goal and the more we prove that this truly is an audience that will support a game!

So we must be welcoming, and patient, and show people what is still going on. Sarcasm and scolding for them not having been around or not having "looked hard enough" is counterproductive, and, moreover, counter to the community spirit we like to think CoH had. A little patience and a helpful review of the state of things and where to go for more information on at least one of the projects (http://missingworldsmedia.com/forums/index.php) will achieve more happiness for those already here and the newcomer. Is that not the goal we should all have? Maximizing our happiness as a community?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Hyperstrike on June 27, 2013, 01:43:00 PM
Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.

Okay.  It's not that "nothing" has happened.

Attempts to recover CoH are ongoing.
We have not one, but two game projects happening.
We've got the ability to log into a stand alone instance of the game, dink around in the costume editor and fly around various portions of the city.
And an effort is being made to write a stand-alone server that'll allow people to get back into the game.

Is it the recovery of 16 servers and all the client data?  No.  Not yet.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Triplash on June 27, 2013, 02:58:05 PM
We have not one, but two game projects happening.

Three, actually. Valiance Online (http://valiance.shogn.net/) is looking pretty good these days too.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Captain Electric on June 27, 2013, 06:20:09 PM
So we must be welcoming, and patient, and show people what is still going on. Sarcasm and scolding...

Welcoming and patience is all I've ever had for people here and outside, and Tony is the freaking poster child for welcoming and patience. But sarcasm and scolding is the only thing you're going to get as a reward for your patience in this case. You may not have interacted with Jayboh on the official forums. Some of us did. If you're really masochistic, then go right ahead and open your arms. The reaction he got from me and Tony is likely the one he was baiting us for, but he may come back to toy with the folks who don't know any better.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Segev on June 27, 2013, 08:31:37 PM
If you say so; I was unaware there was history involved, here. If so, I'm sure we'll see true colors before long. If not, hey, maybe he's turned over a leaf. We'll see!

Thanks for the warning and explanation, though.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Randomvector on June 27, 2013, 08:54:36 PM
Can't we all just, get along?
And make Costumes with Icon?
And run around the city in them?
ANd look at the websites for successor projects.
And enjoy the winks and nods and say no mores?

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Captain Electric on June 27, 2013, 08:55:58 PM
Sigh, sorry if I sounded harsh. I just don't want to see the patience of good people get used for disingenuous entertainment purposes. What's worse, a knee-jerk reaction like my post probably qualifies as entertainment.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Vasarto on June 27, 2013, 10:10:29 PM
I heard that there was a thing you can do solo play in the game. Where is this?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on June 27, 2013, 10:34:47 PM
Welcoming and patience is all I've ever had for people here and outside, and Tony is the freaking poster child for welcoming and patience. But sarcasm and scolding is the only thing you're going to get as a reward for your patience in this case. You may not have interacted with Jayboh on the official forums. Some of us did. If you're really masochistic, then go right ahead and open your arms. The reaction he got from me and Tony is likely the one he was baiting us for, but he may come back to toy with the folks who don't know any better.
whoa I though we was leaving the old forum past behind us and fresh start?

But then again, I dont think I remember him much though.


I should of figured something was up and there was some history as your response was a bit out of character than what you usually say.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Aggelakis on June 28, 2013, 05:07:02 AM
I heard that there was a thing you can do solo play in the game. Where is this?
There is no solo game.

Codewalker's Titan ICON lets you play with the costume creator and "log into the game", inasmuch as it allows you to load into maps. Most of the static NPCs are there. You can fly around and change maps and do demorecord MOVs (similar to emotes) with specific commands.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7288.0.html
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Titan_Icon
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Mazz vs The World on June 28, 2013, 04:19:49 PM
I'm so glad most of you are extremely optimistic and you take the very small steps people have made in recovering a COH-ish game as some form of accomplishment, I do have to fall on the side of not much has been done. Sure we have 3 projects so far in the works attempting to be a spiritual successor, but it takes a MMO years to develop so who knows when they will come out. Also yes we have ICON where you can create a character and run around and spawn npcs inputting codes (which I personally hate) to stand idle. These are good things for some but for others it's "nothing", you can't get upset because some feel that these things aren't much to build up hope for a return of COH. So I agree with Jaguar don't bash the guy cause he sees whatever progress you think is something, as nothing. He's entitled to his own opinion just like you are. Also I like to keep the past out of the present. So if he was a "troll" (hate that word) on the COH forums let him prove to be the same here before treating him as such. Not all of us will be happy with the accomplishments some have made. I for one appreciate that people take time out of their day to build anything at all but I also don't see it as a determining factor that we will have the game back 6 months from now or even a couple years from now. Only thing you can do is wait and see. To be clear I am not bashing anyones ideas, plans, or progress. I am simply saying that I can see why someone would come to this network and see the accomplishments made here as "nothing". If you disagree that's fine we can agree to disagree, no arguments needed.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TonyV on June 28, 2013, 08:29:24 PM
I do have to fall on the side of not much has been done.

I respectfully disagree.  There has been a lot of work done.  Thousands of man hours, in fact, that I personally know about, and probably even more that I'm unaware of.  I really do have to take exception to anyone, especially someone who admits that they don't make any effort to stay plugged in to what's going on, dropping by now and then just to remind us all that the clock hasn't turned back a year and insinuating that, as you say, "not much has been done."

Sure we have 3 projects so far in the works attempting to be a spiritual successor, but it takes a MMO years to develop so who knows when they will come out.

Okay, just for the sake of having a number and giving a lot of slack, let's say that one of the Plan Z projects is released in four years.  It's 2017, and we finally have our spiritual successor.  Has it taken a long time?  Yes, and believe me, if I could speed things up, I would.  But the way I look at it, let's say that all three teams say, "Crap, that's a long time.  Why bother?"  The result is that in 2017, we don't have a spiritual successor to City of Heroes.  So yes, MMOs take a long time to develop.  But given the choice between having a game in 2017 and not having a game at all, I'll choose having a game in 2017 and I'll be grateful for it.

And incidentally, I'm not going to get into too many details, but I think that 2017 is much longer than it will take.  Cryptic developed the original City of Heroes engine--the guts of what makes it go and by far the hardest part of development--from scratch.  As far as I know, all of the Plan Z projects are shortcutting that process by customizing an off-the-shelf game engine (Unreal 3 for The Phoenix Project, Hero for Heroes and Villains, and if I'm not mistaken, and I think Unity for Valiance Online) to keep development from taking so long.

Also yes we have ICON where you can create a character and run around and spawn npcs inputting codes (which I personally hate) to stand idle. These are good things for some but for others it's "nothing", you can't get upset because some feel that these things aren't much to build up hope for a return of COH.

I have said all along that it depends on how you define "a return of COH."  If you're referring to the way things were this time last year, I will be the first to admit that those days are forever gone, done and over with.  We had a small window of opportunity for that to happen in September last year, and it fell through.

I have also said all along that "City of Heroes" means different things to different people.  Some were in it after all these years to keep in touch with the people they enjoyed playing with.  They still read and post here, and they're involved with other games with their friends from City of Heroes.  Some of those folks are perfectly happy and couldn't care less that the game they established their social circles in is gone.  They still hang out with the same people, it's just different pixels on a screen now.

Some liked playing around with the costume editor, endlessly designing outfits and backstories, using City of Heroes basically as a front-end for their imagination.  While they wish the game had continued, some of them are probably sufficiently happy now with Icon that it's really helped replicate the experience that they enjoyed most about the game.  Some liked flying around the city, which they can do with Icon.  Some liked the mechanics and/or the theme of the game, and will be happy once one or more of the Plan Z projects launch.  Some liked the writing in the game, which they can still experience at ParagonWiki.com.  Some liked the city itself, which to some degree can be experienced with Icon, and which we're hoping can be recreated with some of the reverse engineering efforts in progress.

To be blunt, some have even mentioned to me that while they didn't want the game to shut down, having Icon is even cooler because you can turn off clipping to go anywhere, spawn NPCs and change models on the fly, and access the game much like the developers used to.

Some people won't be happy unless every aspect of all of these things can be recreated.  To those people, I'm not sure what to say except that I'm sorry, the only way for that to happen would be an extremely unlikely confluence of events.  If that's what you think that these forums exist for, you will always be disappointed no matter how many times you pop in and make the observation that the game as it used to be isn't back yet.

I never promised that any solution we come to with our efforts will be 100% perfect, but like I said, I take exception to anyone who equates that to "not much has been done."  And to be blunt, it's entirely within the realm of the likely that the reverse engineering efforts and/or one or more Plan Z project will result in a solution that is >100% perfect for a lot of people; that there may be features and capabilities that, because of technical and business limitations imposed on Paragon Studios, end up making for a better experience than the original.

All I can say is that you'll have to stay tuned to see.  The easiest way to do that is to at least lurk on these forums and try to keep a finger on the pulse of what's going on.  But popping in every blue moon just to post that we're not meeting some arbitrary criteria of where someone deems we should be is not only unhelpful, it needlessly undermines the hard work that people are doing.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Lycantropus on June 28, 2013, 09:16:32 PM
I have to agree with TonyV here. Nobody *had* to put in any effort at all after our City was closed to us; we could have all just said "well that's it!" and found new games, or like others putting down their efforts now with phrases like 'too hard' 'too much work' 'take too long'... I'm sure a LOT of folks have.

I really appreciate any and all efforts folks have made, whether it was going through the time and effort organizing events and pitches to save, then later revive it, down to those who just contributed what they could to those efforts. I appreciate Codewalker, Leandro, and so many others who are plugging away at their keyboards for hours (with no pay, just for the love of it mind you) to help us back into our City in whatever ways they can, even moreso for SHARING their efforts with all of us. I appreciate TonyV, and Golden Girl, and any other folks putting in efforts to re-create what we loved so much about our City. I don't post a ton, tending to lurk, and I don't agree with everyone's take on things, but I have seen a lot of effort and passion on these boards for the past year for something we all loved, and after many proclamations of its death...

*deep breath*

...we're still here, and in many ways (and more all the time because of the above efforts) so is our City. Don't ask us if it's dead. That's something you're going to have to answer in your own heart at this point, and if the answer for you is 'yes' then why are *you* still here?

Now, because this is the internet, I'm going to clarify that. I'm not saying to anyone to leave and not come back. What I meant was if all this is a waste of time and effort, that you feel we'll never see our City again, or nothing anyone's doing here will bring that back to you in any way that will satisfy you, then perhaps you're just here looking for closure. If that's the case, you got that last December 1st. If not... then keep your hopes up and stick around. You never know what's going to happen, but it won't be spurred on by negativity or trying to diminish the efforts of others, that's for sure.

also...
I don't recall it being a full game. I thought they put out some screenies from a "found game" for April Fool's a few years ago.
I was trying to be funny; yes it was just an April Fool's joke. ;)

Lyc~
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on June 28, 2013, 09:51:31 PM
I've been down this road before, what with my old devotion to the Amiga platform and the devastation that happened after Commodore's demise. Nearly drove me crazy. I can't do that again.

So I'll sit here and passively read what everyone else is doing. If they manage to get the game back online then I will happily return.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Electric-Knight on June 28, 2013, 10:58:20 PM
Yeah, saying not much has been done and/or calling it nothing is not really a matter of opinion... it's just wrong.
Sure, anything more than sticking something into a microwave and waiting a few minutes before it's done is the maximum the average person is willing to commit to anything, but, fortunately, we have a lot of non-average people doing a lot of serious work.

And not just within these Titan Forums.

Besides the unknown happenings of the top men, working on secret things that should, one day, yield results for all of us...

I hope I'm not out of line in saying this, but I think that the work put into something like Icon is also, you know, a part of the process.
It may not be what you want from it it right now... but it very well might lead to what you are looking for eventually (whether from the same hands that started it, or from someone else that takes it further).

I think this aspect is what some people might be right in taking a little bit of offense to (for lack of a better description, as I'm not sure there's much offense taken, really). A lot has been done. And things have been accomplished.

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on June 29, 2013, 12:59:44 AM
I've been down this road before, what with my old devotion to the Amiga platform and the devastation that happened after Commodore's demise. Nearly drove me crazy. I can't do that again.

So I'll sit here and passively read what everyone else is doing. If they manage to get the game back online then I will happily return.
*holds up his boing ball secret decoder ring*
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kyriani on June 29, 2013, 03:22:47 AM
I lurk in the hopes that one day in the not too distant future the secret team that my imagination swears is working on getting a private server client running, posts about their success and gives us links for dling the server so we can host it ourselves for solo play or for more enterprising people to run a full time private server. >_>

I dont know for sure such a team exists... but my heart hopes that you do and I will heap much praise upon you if you give me back my COH. >_>
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Mazz vs The World on June 29, 2013, 03:30:53 AM
I agree with what you said Tony V. I also believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion regardless of if you or anyone else thinks it's right or not. A man could have $100 and it would be nothing to a man with a Million but the world to a man with nothing, just to give you some perspective. No one is expecting this site to make a new COH or promise to make it I hope anyway. I come for the updates honestly and I am happy with what's going on as far as people talking about the game still and attempting to get it back but I can fully understand why someone would think that not much has been done. That was and is my final point! Hopefully we can get this game back and it operate 60-75% of what it did and I think most would be fine and of course you will always have those who aren't and I would understand them if they did.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TonyV on June 29, 2013, 05:57:25 AM
So I'll sit here and passively read what everyone else is doing. If they manage to get the game back online then I will happily return.

Just to be clear, I don't mind lurkers.  I like lurkers!  I see our web stats, and when we have good, stable numbers, it means that what we're doing is worthwhile and interesting, even if people aren't posting "You guys are great!" messages.  And I don't mind people popping in now and then and asking, "So I've been away for a while, what's the latest?"  But what I don't like is when I feel like it's couched in terms of, "So you guys haven't accomplished X yet?"  Because the former is asking for information and at least represents some attempt to come up to speed, even though I would prefer it if the asker at least glances at the forum stickies first.  But the latter, it just has the connotation of, "What's taking you all so long?", or worse, "You're failing to meet my expectations."  And we just have too many people working too hard for that to slide by.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Bold on June 29, 2013, 07:34:16 AM
Alright, I'm a long long long time lurker. I never feel I have anything constructive to offer, so I just sit quietly, but I see I'm kind of wrong in that.

Thank you EVERYONE who's keeping ANY part of this going. I miss the game, and coming here gives me hope. Every single day.

Also, I stay in regular contact with some of my old SG mates who don't come here because it's still too painful, but they thank you too.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Captain Electric on June 29, 2013, 07:43:45 AM
And to be blunt, it's entirely within the realm of the likely that the reverse engineering efforts and/or one or more Plan Z project will result in a solution that is >100% perfect for a lot of people; that there may be features and capabilities that, because of technical and business limitations imposed on Paragon Studios, end up making for a better experience than the original.

Emphasis mine; for the uninitiated, this has been my experience with the best reverse-engineered MMOs I've spent time with. Ultima Online (under RunUO), Earth and Beyond, and Earth Eternal all featured advanced quality of life improvements, new classes and areas to explore, new features to interact with your characters, inventories and auctions from outside of the game, and so on. How did players pull these things off, when the developers couldn't? The answer is simple.

Player-operated MMOs are powered by passion, fun, consensus (hopefully), AND NOTHING ELSE, and this leads to features that are focused on improving the lives of the players. Publisher-owned MMOs are powered by profit, greed, and marketing strategies, and this leads to features that are focused on exploiting player psychologies in order to improve the profits of the publishers. Do some studios find a way to balance their passion against their publisher overlords' overbearing greed? Yes! Obviously, yes! But in case you haven't noticed, publishers are becoming increasingly intolerant of this. (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/The_Top_F2P_Monetization_Tricks.php)

Studios have deadlines and everything is 100% triage all the time, based on upcoming quarterly shareholder reports. Players have goals, and every reverse-engineered MMO tends to have those "scary genius geniuses" :D who will make their audiences wildest dreams come true, technical limitations be damned. If there is a reverse-engineered project in the works for City of Heroes, I would imagine its stockpile of scary genius geniuses exceeds anything the world has ever seen.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Cinnder on June 29, 2013, 07:52:10 AM
This thread seems to be walking a line between objective and subjective.  To say that "nothing" has been done is just factually incorrect.  However, I can understand that someone might feel that "not much" has been done, if they haven't really been keeping up to speed on all that is actually happening.  Personally I feel much more has been done than I ever expected on 01 Dec.  Once it became clear that NCSoft was not gonna play ball, I thought that CoH was completely dead.  But the community lives on, we have reverse engineering results like Icon and the new games under development (both of which continue to evolve), and there are still efforts to convince NCSoft to give us back our city.  All of that gives me hope, and I'd like to express a hearty thanks to everyone involved in any of these undertakings.  I'm pretty sure at this point that NCSoft intends to keep CoH as it was dead for good, but -- as Tony says -- that doesn't mean that it won't rise again in some other form.

So I guess it comes down to expectations.  But I would ask this to anyone who feels not much has been done: what are you doing to help?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Captain Electric on June 29, 2013, 07:53:59 AM
I'll also add that every time a years-old MMO server gets rewritten, it gets redesigned using technology and tricks (which includes optimization) which either didn't exist when the game was birthed, or were sacrificed in triage for dirty hacks. I'm personally aware that in years past, Ultima Online devs lamented the fact that the official game was TECHNOLOGICALLY INCAPABLE of many of the features created by players under the RunUO suite of emulator developer tools. This is likely one of the reasons why EA spent time spying on RunUO shards instead of trying to shut them down.

RunUO remains technologically superior to the official servers. The Earth and Beyond emulator is technologically WAY more advanced than the Live game was. I imagine everyone sees my point.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on June 29, 2013, 03:25:15 PM
I'll also add that every time a years-old MMO server gets rewritten, it gets redesigned using technology and tricks (which includes optimization) which either didn't exist when the game was birthed, or were sacrificed in triage for dirty hacks. I'm personally aware that in years past, Ultima Online devs lamented the fact that the official game was TECHNOLOGICALLY INCAPABLE of many of the features created by players under the RunUO suite of emulator developer tools. This is likely one of the reasons why EA spent time spying on RunUO shards instead of trying to shut them down.

RunUO remains technologically superior to the official servers. The Earth and Beyond emulator is technologically WAY more advanced than the Live game was. I imagine everyone sees my point.
I see your point better than some, because I'm now at the point when I load up Icon and run around the zones, I am struck by how... old everything looks, technology wise in comparison to the prototype systems I've been working with.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on June 29, 2013, 06:05:47 PM
I imagine everyone sees my point.

Ah see this is what I mean. Sometimes generalizations are just that. See some raise a fuss at the sight of nothing have been done, but here, we have I imagine everyone see my point. (And this is not to pick on anyone, just the first one I noticed here but it happens across many thread many people with everyone, none, nothing, always, never,) hell I think I even do it from time to time..

So even if one person doesnt see the point, then that would make it just as wrong of a statement as someone sayng nothing have been done.


And as I said, not that it's bad, and more than likely it wasnt meant as literally as everyone, because then that is lot of people, 3 billion or so making Electric the most popular guy in the entire world to know or even imagine that everyone would get the point.


Now if we are not to take his statement of "everyone" as literal terms, then why should the term of "nothing" be taken literal?  Then if it aint to be taken literal, then what is the fuss about if it's not literal like the statement of "everyone"  most likely simply means most people, which even then could be question as most of who and do he in fact know most people to make that assumption or guess, and nothing means not much been done which brings it to the opinion side as what is not much is much to another, which nullify the fuss about it.


AKA, in short why is one taken literal because it looks disagreeable, and one is assumed to be not literal because it looks agreeable? 
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Wyrm on June 29, 2013, 09:28:54 PM
Just to be clear, I don't mind lurkers.  I like lurkers!
I mainly lurk, if only because my passion made me occasionally argumentative on the official forums.  I compose patient, well-worded, non-confrontational messages as part of my day job.  I mean, I hope I do.  I have a harder time channeling my passion into the kind of well-constructed and very constructive post you made a few messages above.
Quote
  I see our web stats, and when we have good, stable numbers, it means that what we're doing is worthwhile and interesting, even if people aren't posting "You guys are great!" messages.
You guys* are great.

I had gotten stuck in the rut of, "If NCSoft won't sell the IP, we're kind of hosed until something new comes from the Plan Z projects."  Losing hope and all that.  I can relate to some of what the OP said, even if I don't agree with it.  Kind of, "been there, bro."

Then I got around to trying Icon. 

Holy wow.  The world I love is still there.  It's STILL THERE.

I'm a believer.  It will happen eventually, because too many people share that love for it not to happen.  And I'm willing to wait, and contribute however I can.

~Wyrm


* = "guys" in the non-gendered usage of the word, of course.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Angel Phoenix77 on June 30, 2013, 11:19:06 PM
I mainly lurk, if only because my passion made me occasionally argumentative on the official forums.  I compose patient, well-worded, non-confrontational messages as part of my day job.  I mean, I hope I do.  I have a harder time channeling my passion into the kind of well-constructed and very constructive post you made a few messages above.You guys* are great.

I had gotten stuck in the rut of, "If NCSoft won't sell the IP, we're kind of hosed until something new comes from the Plan Z projects."  Losing hope and all that.  I can relate to some of what the OP said, even if I don't agree with it.  Kind of, "been there, bro."

Then I got around to trying Icon. 

Holy wow.  The world I love is still there.  It's STILL THERE.

I'm a believer.  It will happen eventually, because too many people share that love for it not to happen.  And I'm willing to wait, and contribute however I can.

~Wyrm


* = "guys" in the non-gendered usage of the word, of course.
this is how i feel :(. how would i get on to icon?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Aggelakis on June 30, 2013, 11:48:21 PM
this is how i feel :(. how would i get on to icon?
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7288.0.html
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Angel Phoenix77 on July 01, 2013, 12:08:28 AM
ty :)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Mistress Urd on July 01, 2013, 06:09:00 AM
Emphasis mine; for the uninitiated, this has been my experience with the best reverse-engineered MMOs I've spent time with. Ultima Online (under RunUO), Earth and Beyond, and Earth Eternal all featured advanced quality of life improvements, new classes and areas to explore, new features to interact with your characters, inventories and auctions from outside of the game, and so on. How did players pull these things off, when the developers couldn't? The answer is simple.

Player-operated MMOs are powered by passion, fun, consensus (hopefully), AND NOTHING ELSE, and this leads to features that are focused on improving the lives of the players. Publisher-owned MMOs are powered by profit, greed, and marketing strategies, and this leads to features that are focused on exploiting player psychologies in order to improve the profits of the publishers. Do some studios find a way to balance their passion against their publisher overlords' overbearing greed? Yes! Obviously, yes! But in case you haven't noticed, publishers are becoming increasingly intolerant of this. (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20130626/194933/The_Top_F2P_Monetization_Tricks.php)

Studios have deadlines and everything is 100% triage all the time, based on upcoming quarterly shareholder reports. Players have goals, and every reverse-engineered MMO tends to have those "scary genius geniuses" :D who will make their audiences wildest dreams come true, technical limitations be damned. If there is a reverse-engineered project in the works for City of Heroes, I would imagine its stockpile of scary genius geniuses exceeds anything the world has ever seen.

*steps out of the shadows

Sadly, this is how things are going in the MMO world with F2P. I've been enjoying myself "retro-gaming" with some old classics back when games were fun.  ;)

In the case of CoH we got a nice (perhaps accidental) mix of casual friendly and team friendly game that was fairly easy to play and get into. The CoH community in general was very helpful.

*hides again
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Golden Girl on July 01, 2013, 04:52:24 PM
No one's managed to do a fair and honest f2p option yet.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on July 01, 2013, 05:05:01 PM
Yes, they have GG. There are plenty of solid f2p games out there. Quite a few rubbish as well.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on July 01, 2013, 07:55:12 PM
*holds up his boing ball secret decoder ring*

You reminded me to upload an icon here, hee.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: plasma on July 01, 2013, 10:30:03 PM
No one's managed to do a fair and honest f2p option yet.

My college roommate is one of the founders of Grinding Gear Games, and they made Path of Exile. I'd go check it out. It is the absolute antithesis of the crappy coin-driven f2p or "astral diamond"-driven garbage out there. All you can get is stash tabs, character slots (both of which you start with enough of for most purposes), and cosmetic things. "Ethical microtransactions" they call it, and it frankly scares me on their behalf, but so far it is working.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on July 01, 2013, 11:57:24 PM
My college roommate is one of the founders of Grinding Gear Games, and they made Path of Exile. I'd go check it out. It is the absolute antithesis of the crappy coin-driven f2p or "astral diamond"-driven garbage out there. All you can get is stash tabs, character slots (both of which you start with enough of for most purposes), and cosmetic things. "Ethical microtransactions" they call it, and it frankly scares me on their behalf, but so far it is working.
Tell your former roomate that they did an excellent job! Their skill system is absolutely mind-blowing for customization!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kyriani on July 02, 2013, 01:10:55 PM
No one's managed to do a fair and honest f2p option yet.

Honestly COH's F2P was the one I found most palatable.

There was incentive to subscribe and you got a lot of bang for your buck from doing so.
Not subbing still let you enjoy the bulk of the game from 1 to 50
Many things sold were account wide unlocks which personally to me made making purchases more likely because I really liked the idea of enhancing the overall value and capability of my account.
While prices on somethings were a bit outlandish (I am looking at your increased inventory options!) most of them were acceptable especially given the monthly stipend from subbing.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on July 02, 2013, 01:38:40 PM
Honestly COH's F2P was the one I found most palatable.

Forgive me if you joined late, but I think one reason for that would be that if you had a stack of vet rewards, the F2P option was vastly different to that you'd get as a new player.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TonyV on July 02, 2013, 02:22:07 PM
Forgive me if you joined late, but I think one reason for that would be that if you had a stack of vet rewards, the F2P option was vastly different to that you'd get as a new player.

...But not really vastly different than what we got over the years as subscribers.  Keep in mind that when we started playing, we had no extra costume slots (when I started playing, you only got one costume, and if you wanted to change it, you had to reroll your character), no access to fancy powersets like Archery, Waster Blast, Sonic, etc., less than half the archetypes (only Blaster, Scrapper, Controller, Tanker, and Defender), less than half of the city zones, no Ultra Mode, no crafting, no market, no Incarnate system (when I started, you couldn't even get to level 50 yet), and so on.  And we were paying $15 per month for that.

With the possible exception of access to Controllers and some inspiration drops, new players at the end had access to vastly more content and features than a lot of vets did when they started playing.  And like the vets, as the new players kept playing, they gained access to more stuff.  Yeah, we got a stack of vet rewards when CoH: Freedom was released, but you have to remember that the people who got the biggest stacks?  They'd been playing (and paying!) for eight years to get that stuff.

And that stuff wasn't even denied to new players.  If they were willing to pony up as much money as we did over the years, they could have it all from day one if they wanted.  If they were willing to wait long enough like we did (barring the game shutting down...), they would have had access to most of it anyway.  I never bought into the argument that new players were somehow deprived because they didn't get all of the stuff that long-time veterans did.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on July 02, 2013, 02:43:29 PM
...But not really vastly different than what we got over the years as subscribers.

There is one standout difference there, though; when we as subscribers had no Inventions, no-one had any Inventions. As a new F2P player, you were in the situation that makes many feel F2P is unfair; you could pay to make your character enormously more effective.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kyriani on July 02, 2013, 03:46:56 PM
Forgive me if you joined late, but I think one reason for that would be that if you had a stack of vet rewards, the F2P option was vastly different to that you'd get as a new player.

I did have a stack of vet rewards since I had been playing coh since beta... with that said I also made a second account when Freedom launched to see the game from a free players perspective. Without vet rewards I appreciated buying account unlocks from the store even more because they not only enhanced the value and capability of the account but also led to vet rewards.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Sleepy Wonder on July 02, 2013, 04:29:41 PM
I had a really long thought out post about F2P, but I realized it's one of those arguments that kind of just goes in circles (if you can understand and analyze both sides of the argument), which leads me to believe that F2P really is a tricky thing to "get right".

I remember Matt Miller's comments about it on Massively, and it doesn't surprise me he was very happy and proud of the way City of Heroes did it, because from everything I can see, they did a fine job having come from a purely subscription based model with free trials in the past.

I think the key to keep in mind is:

As a player..
1.) Expect limitations as a free player. Especially if the game does not have a subscription model (no subscription model is typically a red flag for Pay 2 Win games, but your mileage may vary)

If the game has a suitable subscription model, expect (demand?) that as a paying subscriber, nothing in the game should have to be purchased on a F2P market that cannot be earned legitimately in-game by subscribers.


CoH didn't exactly live up to this standard entirely, as there were minor cosmetic items unavailable anywhere else in game (certain jet packs, travel temp powers) - HOWEVER - they did give subscribers free points every month that could in turn be used to purchase these, so technically they did. It's sort of on the line really.

As a developer..
2.) Your subscribers are not walking banks. They are moms, dads, children, teenagers, etc. They are people - a community of people who are all playing your game for one thing: entertainment. fun. the core of any game. Don't treat them like banks and they will probably give you more money in the long haul than they would otherwise. Ask the average gamer what they think of publishers like EA to understand my point.

It's difficult because there's a difference between the publisher and developers a lot of the times. We know we're being exploited but we can't help ourselves in some cases. It's not the developers fault the game is addicting, but it's unwise for any publisher to exploit this. Then again, I guess publishers don't necessarily care about public opinion as long as the money keeps flowing. But eventually enough people WILL start to wake up and smell the coffee.

At least I hope so. The cycle of younger gamers will keep replacing those who've smartened up to publisher money grab tactics, so its a vicious cycle.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Sleepy Wonder on July 02, 2013, 04:35:57 PM
I did have a stack of vet rewards since I had been playing coh since beta... with that said I also made a second account when Freedom launched to see the game from a free players perspective. Without vet rewards I appreciated buying account unlocks from the store even more because they not only enhanced the value and capability of the account but also led to vet rewards.

Ultimately this is how the model works. There are a smaller number of people who pay much more than they would have with an occasional subscription, which offsets the cost of the free players who generally don't purchase anything in the market.

It's basically just like advertising (at least I look at it that way) in that not everybody is going to go and buy a Ford Cherokee after seeing a commercial, but enough people will to offset the cost of the ad. Same way spam works too.

I had both, and like you, I didn't mind. The value to me was worth it. I have no idea if I would have been better off with 2+ monthly subs, but I know that in my head, I was basically paying for time. I would've had to have waited for veteran rewards to kick in as a subscriber, so the cost difference was basically "I'll pay more to have it _right now_".

I'm impatient this way, and I fully understood it all, so it didn't bother me. But again, it's all about how you feel about the value. Some people can be more stingy, others not so much.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Sleepy Wonder on July 02, 2013, 04:47:23 PM
Keep in mind that when we started playing, we had no extra costume slots (when I started playing, you only got one costume, and if you wanted to change it, you had to reroll your character)

If CoH was still around, I would've suggested after reading that (LOL), that you roll up an old-timer who shakes canes at heroes around Atlas.

"Why in my day sonny, we didn't have spandex!"
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: batqueen on July 02, 2013, 04:55:46 PM
My son actually had an Old Timer in game, I forget which server. His battle cry was "Dagnab it, you kids get off my lawn!!"   ;D
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on July 02, 2013, 05:43:37 PM
My son actually had an Old Timer in game, I forget which server. His battle cry was "Dagnab it, you kids get off my lawn!!"   ;D
I remember a guy with this battlecry on Champion! Made me laugh every time!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: adarict on July 02, 2013, 07:34:17 PM
There is one standout difference there, though; when we as subscribers had no Inventions, no-one had any Inventions. As a new F2P player, you were in the situation that makes many feel F2P is unfair; you could pay to make your character enormously more effective.

I don't buy that argument either.  Even if you had ACCESS to inventions, a lot of people weren't made enormously more effective than their non IO counterparts.  A lot of people didn't earn enough influence to afford the really good IOs, and stuck mostly with generic IOs or mismatched sets of lower end IOs.  The percentage of people with large amounts of purple IOs was likely a tiny percentage of the population.  The really good drops didn't show up all that often, which meant the only way to get those awesome purple sets in many cases, was at the auctions, which priced them astronomically out of the range of a large portion of the population.  Sure, making Inf was not THAT tough.  I didn't even actively TRY to earn Inf, and I always had plenty laying around, but I know there were a LOT of people on Guardian at least, that always struggled to keep enough Inf to buy the IOs they wanted.

Not to say that even lower tier IOs didn't make you more effective.  Obviously they did, but MOST of them were not huge jumps over standard SOs.  Wait.  Let me rephrase that.  Numerically, IOs in general gave better performance, but in day to day usage, did not make a huge difference to most players.  There are exceptions of course.  As you get to higher level enemies, or things like GMs, the IOs can actually be the difference between success and failure.  For most players though?  I doubt that it would make that much of a difference if it took a couple extra minutes to clear a mission.  If their build is so bad that IOs are what are making the difference in their general survival, then they were doing something wrong in the first place.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on July 02, 2013, 08:58:02 PM
I don't buy that argument either.  Even if you had ACCESS to inventions, a lot of people weren't made enormously more effective than their non IO counterparts.  A lot of people didn't earn enough influence to afford the really good IOs, and stuck mostly with generic IOs or mismatched sets of lower end IOs.  The percentage of people with large amounts of purple IOs was likely a tiny percentage of the population.

You didn't need large amounts of purple IOs; I barely saw one or two. A perfectly ordinary Frankenslotted build is still enormously more effective than SOs.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on July 02, 2013, 09:37:04 PM
You didn't need large amounts of purple IOs; I barely saw one or two. A perfectly ordinary Frankenslotted build is still enormously more effective than SOs.

I regret I was never able to finish Purpling and PvP-IOing my very first character (after managing to do the same with some of my other level 50's)...

(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ic.pics.livejournal.com%2Fcoyoteseven%2F537318%2F79750%2F79750_original.png)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Golden Girl on July 02, 2013, 09:47:15 PM
I never used purples :P
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on July 02, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
I never used purples :P
Then you were missing out on the truly good stuff - they definitely made a real difference; and then never got nerfed, even if you were exemplared down to Level 1.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Golden Girl on July 02, 2013, 10:10:41 PM
Then you were missing out on the truly good stuff - they definitely made a real difference; and then never got nerfed, even if you were exemplared down to Level 1.

I liked the normal IO set bonuses too much too replace them with purples.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 03, 2013, 01:37:17 AM
You didn't need large amounts of purple IOs; I barely saw one or two. A perfectly ordinary Frankenslotted build is still enormously more effective than SOs.
Very true, but few people understood how IOs, especially those that enhanced multiple aspects, worked. i suspect they looked at the numbers for each aspect of a triple aspect IO and just saw that they weren't very large. They never considered what it would add up to with multiple IOs all adding their bonuses together. Also, there were a lot of people who were effectively afraid of WW.
While simply leveling up did not supply the inf for a full set of IOs even dumping salvage and recipes onto the market for 1 inf each could add up to a hefty chunk of inf just in the course of leveling up to thirty or so. Actually taking a few minutes here and there to actively use the market could add up very quickly. i had several alts that were nearly fully kitted out with sets by level 32 or so. Of course since i was rarely chasing the bonuses most purple sets provided it was relatively easy to do even on a fairly casual marketeer's budget.

Actually, having been playing SWTOR recently two of the things i miss the most are CoH's market system and the chat/social interface. And don't get me started on how there are basically six powersets shared among eight archetypes and yet i'm seeing people posting in their test server forums about needing to lock down variant gearing approaches and prevent hybrid builds from being viable because it'll make balancing too difficult. They've got eight archetypes basically using six powersets and a rigid adherence to the MMO holy trinity, and people think that's still way too difficult to balance. Yeah, the sooner i can play CoH or an equivalent the better.

i'm patient (about some things), so even half a decade for an honest successor is reasonable to me, but as has already been mentioned there are reasons i suspect it might not require nearly that long. In any event every other MMO i've tried has mostly succeeded in making me miss CoH's gameplay. (Especially SWTOR. (See above.) How could a game come out over six years after WoW and CoH while making those two games seem more advanced in so many ways?)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on July 03, 2013, 05:14:54 AM
I liked the normal IO set bonuses too much too replace them with purples.
???  So, for example, a 6.25% bonus to Recharge and a 9% bonus to Accuracy (Positron's Blast) was better than a 10% bonus to Recharge and a 15% bonus to Accuracy (Ragnarok)?

I lived and breathed Mids when CoH was running - I didn't even consider creating a character until I'd spent probably about 2 weeks (on and off) working out a build and examining the powers/enhancements.  If, at Level 50, you were just using basic IOs and I was using a full 5x purple sets (along with the best other IOs available), then there is no way your #'s were going to equal mine.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JKPhage on July 03, 2013, 07:53:09 AM
And to bring the conversation about IO's full-circle, let's not forget the introduction of Attuned IO's. Those you could ONLY obtain through the store, and they scaled with levels. If you purchased a purple IO it functioned the same way as in-game ones, always on, no matter what level you were operating at, but even more-so were the attuned non-purps. Those adjusted to whatever level was needed for you to use them. If we're talking a set that was available as a 30-50 range then you normally had a choice in the market scene. You could buy those at the lowest possible level so that you'd keep their benefit when exemping, or buy them at the highest possible level to get the best bonus, but only when not exemping below 47. Plug in an attuned IO, and you could exemp all the way down to 27 and keep properly scaled bonuses from that IO, and when you jumped back to 50, you'd reap the full benefit of that IO at it's max level.

If you want to look at it from that point, then purchasing market IO's with real money was actually even more of a benefit. SO's compared to generic IO's were not a HUGE difference, a change of a percentage point or two, but SO's compared to even orange, and especially purple, IO sets WERE a vast improvement, the difference between nearly one-shotting a boss with a snipe/assassin strike and merely taking off a sizeable chunk of their health, not to mention the myriad other benefits like global recharge bonuses, stealth, movement speed, etc. etc. Add to that the scaling of Attuned IO's and there really is a compelling argument for "pay to win", though I don't think any of us who actually played the game would buy into it (no pun intended), just pointing out that even as fair as most of the market was, if someone really wanted to nit-pick there are certain things that really don't sound good on paper.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: r00tb0ySlim on July 03, 2013, 11:34:24 AM
My pvp stalker bled purple 8) I was lucky enough to finish his build with them and Hami's.  The prices of some purp recipes and many PvP sets came down during the last year, but rare salvage prices went up and they were scarce in the BM/WW's.  Experimenting with enhancements options was just another fun part of CoH.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on July 03, 2013, 11:40:23 AM
Add to that the scaling of Attuned IO's and there really is a compelling argument for "pay to win", though I don't think any of us who actually played the game would buy into it (no pun intended),

Well, I think the question is not "was it pay to win", but "might a new F2P player reasonably feel that it was pay to win", and I think the answer to that is yes.

But... I did actually play the game, and I sort of buy into it. I was Frankenslotting attacks with "2 of one, 3 of the other" (I'd stick everything in at level 33 once the character could slot them, letting me examplar down a fair way) which got more accuracy/damage/endurance/recharge than 6 slots of SOs (later with spare slots I'd do 5 of Crushing Impact plus the damage proc from Mako's Bite) and two minor set bonuses, defences with four mixing Def/End and Def from different sets (doesn't save slots, but saves blue over 3xDef 1xEnd SO, and you get a minor set bonus, etc.

This stuff is cheap; I never in my life played with market speculation (although I did run a private SG base as shared salvage storage, so didn't pay over the odds for salvage), just putting drops up for a reasonable price if they seemed valuable, and could sugar daddy every other toon I wanted to play out of Thunderforce's loot once she reached 50. But... I reckon cumulatively such slotting gave a factor of 2 in effectiveness over SOs - attacks are better by a fraction, defenses better by a fraction, spare slots to go to powers that wouldn't have them, it all adds up.

And... that's a great deal less effective, from what you're telling me, than an Attuned IO build, which you really can just slap down the cash and pay for.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: HEATSTROKE on July 03, 2013, 12:01:20 PM
 Ive never understood the Pay to Win issue.. I mean exactly what was I supposed to win ? Amd if I paid money I supported the game.. so whats the issue ?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Segev on July 03, 2013, 01:44:29 PM
Ive never understood the Pay to Win issue.. I mean exactly what was I supposed to win ? Amd if I paid money I supported the game.. so whats the issue ?
Not disagreeing with your attitude, here, but seeking to explain why people get upset with "pay 2 win."

"Pay 2 win," in its truest form, replaces any other form of investment in the game (time, energy, effort, playing, socializing, etc.) with money. Real money. P2W games come in two main varieties: PvE and PvP. PvP P2W is the easiest to see the problem: buying the items that make you "win" means that you practically can't lose against those who didn't spend as much money as you did. Sure, there's some modicum of skill, tactics, and strategy involved, but it easily gets to the point that "knowing enough not to stand around picking your nose" is sufficient to beat the most skilled tactician in the game, if you have spent enough money on enough "perks" and he hasn't.

This is an "ante game" because it basically asks, "who is willing to spend the most?" The "winner" is the guy who did. He just wins all the PvP fights.

PvE P2W is no more subtle, in truth: things start off as something your skills allow you to achieve. Challenges get harder, but what you earn in-game and what you learn in terms of tactics and skills let you keep up, and feel accomplished. When you get "stuck," there's always the option to buy something from the store that will help. From the beginning, if you're willing to spend money, the game is easier and you win faster.

The insidious part of PvE P2W is that the difficulty ramping up eventually exceeds what you can do without a little purchased help by design. And, once they get you to spend some money, it becomes harder to tell if it's just that you're "not quite good enough," so you are buying help that "better players" don't need, or if the game's really impossible without spending money.

In either event, spending more money lets you get farther, faster, and thus, it's pay 2 win.


And, because it's basically removing anything except money as a measure of how hard you're winning, it eventually exhausts people.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: damienray on July 03, 2013, 02:29:44 PM
I remember a guy with this battlecry on Champion! Made me laugh every time!

I had a plant/water name "GetOffMyLawn". Old man, with the derby, wife-beater, gardening gloves... would spray water on the bad guys and yell at them ... good times !!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: P51mus on July 03, 2013, 07:47:49 PM
???  So, for example, a 6.25% bonus to Recharge and a 9% bonus to Accuracy (Positron's Blast) was better than a 10% bonus to Recharge and a 15% bonus to Accuracy (Ragnarok)?

I lived and breathed Mids when CoH was running - I didn't even consider creating a character until I'd spent probably about 2 weeks (on and off) working out a build and examining the powers/enhancements.  If, at Level 50, you were just using basic IOs and I was using a full 5x purple sets (along with the best other IOs available), then there is no way your #'s were going to equal mine.

Purple sets were good for recharge, but if I remember right, there were very few defensive bonuses in purple sets.  So if you wanted to get a large amount of defense, or defense cap a character, you needed non purple IO sets.

Also, I think that as far as team content goes, the way CoH handled buffs made it not really need IOs.  IOs could make you need less buffs to become super awesome, but a team with enough buffs/debuffs/controls gained so much from them that the IOs might not mean that much anymore.  Mostly they were good for solo/small team power.  And even then you could play through normal content fine without them.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on July 03, 2013, 08:45:45 PM
Purple sets were good for recharge, but if I remember right, there were very few defensive bonuses in purple sets.  So if you wanted to get a large amount of defense, or defense cap a character, you needed non purple IO sets.

Also, I think that as far as team content goes, the way CoH handled buffs made it not really need IOs.  IOs could make you need less buffs to become super awesome, but a team with enough buffs/debuffs/controls gained so much from them that the IOs might not mean that much anymore.  Mostly they were good for solo/small team power.  And even then you could play through normal content fine without them.
Recharge was always the #1 stat I was pushing on any character - achieving Perma-Hasten was always stat design goal #1; I just hated the constant Hasten glow for most characters and we almost got that taken care of!  Argh...

As for teaming, I teamed about half the time and solo-ed half the time, so I always tried to engineer builds that struck a balance between the two without me having to actually maintain 2 builds per character.  And when I was solo-ing, I certainly did notice the difference between a fully-purpled-out character and one without them.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 03, 2013, 09:52:12 PM
Recharge was always the #1 stat I was pushing on any character - achieving Perma-Hasten was always stat design goal #1; I just hated the constant Hasten glow for most characters and we almost got that taken care of!  Argh...
Recharge was one thing i rarely pursued very heavily since it still came with a lot of set bonuses i wanted anyway. i tended to focus more on defense bonuses and +max end/+rec bonuses. By the time a character was a high enough level to start slotting sets i had more than enough powers to have something useful available at all times. My Dark/Sonic Def was late thirties at shutdown and never lacked a ready AoE mitigation tool or effective attack with no purples bonuses at all. Between high defenses, debuffs, and a solid selection of attacks soloing was almost stupidly easy. Still, i can see how a heavily purpled build that can spam high recharge powers rapidly would be more efficient, but i liked cycling through a varied selection of powers.

Quote
As for teaming, I teamed about half the time and solo-ed half the time, so I always tried to engineer builds that struck a balance between the two without me having to actually maintain 2 builds per character.  And when I was solo-ing, I certainly did notice the difference between a fully-purpled-out character and one without them.
i never had different team and solo builds either, it was easy enough to design a build that functioned well both ways. Other than adding sets as i leveled up i also never had a leveling build and a 50 build. i always took whatever powers i wanted most as early as possible so the character generally functioned well at any level.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Osborn on July 04, 2013, 03:48:06 AM
The sort of argument against claiming CoX was a pay to win game, was the fact that I'd never had a single character slotted in nothing but SO's, as long as my slotting in SOs was even slightly intelligent and took ED into account, and didn't 'waste' slots on stuff like sprint or fly, fail at the game, aside from one Mercenaries/Dark Miasma mastermind which basically begged for IOs.

I'd never run into the level of 'equipment elitism' that I did in every other MMO I'd ever played. I'd never been kicked from a team for failing to have the 'proper raid gear'.

Even playing things like Archery/Empathy defender was fine, even though healing was universally panned in the game, because as long as people stayed on their feet and full bellies of endurance and fortitude everybody the team would stay happy and effective.

I never ran into teams where pretty much anybody using anything was welcome as long as characters took and trusted in their powers (that is, scrappers purely without toggles or some other extremely rare weirdness).

 
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Ironwolf on July 04, 2013, 03:59:29 AM
I never slotted any IO's except drops until level 40.

I had great fun for many years with nought but SO
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: LaughingAlex on July 04, 2013, 08:26:50 AM
For me, it really depended on the character.  The last toons I made in City of heroes all used time manipulation, and because it could achieve extremely good defense against everything with just power build up, IO's were not actually that high on the priority untill pretty late.  After hitting fifty on those characters however I'd focus very aggressively on recharge, as combining time manipulation with incarnate powers really combined to devastating effect.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on July 04, 2013, 08:42:09 AM
For me, it really depended on the character.  The last toons I made in City of heroes all used time manipulation, and because it could achieve extremely good defense against everything with just power build up, IO's were not actually that high on the priority untill pretty late.  After hitting fifty on those characters however I'd focus very aggressively on recharge, as combining time manipulation with incarnate powers really combined to devastating effect.
Indeed, my last character was an Illusion/Time Controller (her motto: "Time is an Illusion."  :) ), and she certainly could use all the recharge she could get - being able to achieve Perma-Phantom Army and then able to spam Illusion and Time lockdowns, she was awesome.   :)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on July 04, 2013, 01:14:56 PM
Even playing things like Archery/Empathy defender was fine, even though healing was universally panned in the game, because as long as people stayed on their feet and full bellies of endurance and fortitude everybody the team would stay happy and effective.

Well, you say that about healing, but the only times I ever had a team effectively refuse me was on my bubbler. "No, we need a healer". Sure, they were wrong, but it happened.

Quote
I never ran into teams where pretty much anybody using anything was welcome as long as characters took and trusted in their powers (that is, scrappers purely without toggles or some other extremely rare weirdness).

I took quite a dim view of aggro-less tankers (I'm carefully not saying "Taunt-less" to avoid eliciting the reply from someone who didn't take Taunt and is totally convinced they were effective, and doubtless some of them were); I wouldn't kick one, but such a toon is a bit of a leech; safer than a scrapper (less risk), does less work (attacks are a bit tickle-to-death), gets the same rewards. Shoulda played a scrapper.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Thunder Glove on July 04, 2013, 06:06:15 PM
Weird.  I loved getting Aggro with my Tanks (and my Brutes, for that matter, who were usually built pretty defensively as well), and almost always took Taunt.  For my main Stone/Stone Tanker I even turned it into a (very unreliable) ranged attack by putting a damage proc in it.

As for "healers", it was actually very nice to have an Empath or Pain Domination (or even Thermal or Nature) Defender/Corruptor/Controller/Mastermind around for Incarnate trials, when it seemed all the enemies (even minions) could tear through buffs and ignored debuffs.  Generally, though, I preferred playing debuffers rather than buffers or healers (with Storm Summoning, Traps, and Dark Miasma being my favorite Support sets).

I did make a Necromancy/Pain Domination Mastermind as sort of a "rebellion" against all the people advertising themselves as "healers" and nothing else ("Hey, I'm a healer, too!  Look at these fellows right here!  Don't they look healthy?" "BRAAAINS" "Atta boy!"), but I never really played her.  (I created her on August 31, 2012, and then I was distracted by a far bigger concern)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on July 04, 2013, 06:10:56 PM
I did make a Necromancy/Pain Domination Mastermind as sort of a "rebellion" against all the people advertising themselves as "healers" and nothing else

Conversely, for many years on Pressure, my LFT text was "I'm an empath, but I'll still leave if you ask "r u a healer?"".
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: blacksly on July 05, 2013, 05:02:21 PM
???  So, for example, a 6.25% bonus to Recharge and a 9% bonus to Accuracy (Positron's Blast) was better than a 10% bonus to Recharge and a 15% bonus to Accuracy (Ragnarok)?

I lived and breathed Mids when CoH was running - I didn't even consider creating a character until I'd spent probably about 2 weeks (on and off) working out a build and examining the powers/enhancements.  If, at Level 50, you were just using basic IOs and I was using a full 5x purple sets (along with the best other IOs available), then there is no way your #'s were going to equal mine.

One thing about slotting for Defense bonus versus slotting for Recharge: Recharge bonuses are less effective as you get more of them, and Defense bonuses are MORE effective as you get more of them. Getting +10% Recharge when you have NO +Recharge increased your powers-per-minute by more than adding +10% to a build that already has +50%. Conversely, +2% Defense to a build with 40% Defense is a huge boost, while +2% to a build with 0% Defense is a minor build

In the end, the effects of +Recharge are, not exactly self-limiting, but at least self-weakening. As you have more powers recharge faster, your animation-time limitations hamper you more, and you get less effect from each +Recharge point. The builds with purples generally have enough attacks available that +Recharge helps, but not as much as +Defense.

Builds that depend upon major long-recharge powers (Illusion Control, Storm Summoning, etc) have more use for the +Recharge powers, but most builds that rely on attack chains don't need a max-Recharge build to do very well, and often do better with a +Defense/+Endurance build.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Heroette on July 05, 2013, 05:32:34 PM
All of a sudden, I am really missing my Ice/Dark Melee tanker.  She was awesome (as long as it wasn't against fire).  But she was so tough, I could take on so many, and not even worry about my health.  I didn't build her build myself.  I was never very good with the numbers thing.  Bada Booom was kind enough to send me the build.  And by learning how she was set up, I was able to make other tankers almost as tough.  I really want to play now. :-[
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CheerGunbunny on July 05, 2013, 11:28:53 PM
I never number-crunched. Ever.  Every characters powerset choices were determined by their concept.  I did have a few IO Sets on my main villain...but only has those for the last year and a half of the game.  My main hero?  AR/Dev blaster i started in 2004.....hit 50 pre-ED, so I had too many hami-o enhances to want to respec to "recover" from that.  Nobody else had any IOs.  ton of alts, but did have 5 @ 50+3.  only the Brute messed with IOs.  I faffed with that for like 2 weeks, and said "too much grinding/market stuff"

I always felt that IO sets were for the serious PVPer, where everyone was looking for the "perfect" build, where every last percentage point mattered. 

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: goodtime on July 06, 2013, 12:35:45 AM
I always felt that IO sets were for the serious PVPer, where everyone was looking for the "perfect" build, where every last percentage point mattered.
IO's were another part of the depth of the game that compelled me.   Early on I didn't do much more than slot standard IOs in my most used powers for a little extra damage, or a little more END.  But I eventually kitted out almost all my 50s (lots of them) with IO sets, and purples and very rare sets on my favorites, and curse the PVPers and architect farmers for the billion+ INF sales.   I hated running out of end, so every character I'd run through morality missions for hero merits to buy Numina's and Miracle +ends.   I loved the character info pages that had lots and lots of IO set bonuses.  I ran my tanks through AE missions for tickets to buy rare salvage, to craft those, and whatever sets I didn't use so I could sell those at Wentworths.  And when I was bored of playing for merits and tickets, I'd run task forces or incarnates.  Or get tired of all those, too, and edit my base.   And when that bored me, I'd go back and start over again.   I took advantage and enjoyed the hell out of almost every facet of the game (except PvP).
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Nyx Nought Nothing on July 06, 2013, 02:05:35 AM
I always felt that IO sets were for the serious PVPer, where everyone was looking for the "perfect" build, where every last percentage point mattered.
i was never much of a PVPer, but i loved tinkering with IO builds to facilitate doing Stupid Hero Tricks. i usually started with a concept, chose powersets that worked with that concept, and then came up with builds to make the concept more efficient. The addition of procs that added the occasional visual flair was a nice bonus.
Even before sets i used to play with friends who understood the strengths and weaknesses of powersets and enemies well enough to pull off unlikely seeming feats using non-FotM characters, especially in teams, through a combination of skill and build design. i'm still amused by a Stone Tanker a friend had who could run faster than most other non-SS characters while in Granite form.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Pinnacle Blue on July 13, 2013, 05:44:40 AM
I never number-crunched. Ever.  Every characters powerset choices were determined by their concept.  I did have a few IO Sets on my main villain...but only has those for the last year and a half of the game.  My main hero?  AR/Dev blaster i started in 2004.....hit 50 pre-ED, so I had too many hami-o enhances to want to respec to "recover" from that.  Nobody else had any IOs.  ton of alts, but did have 5 @ 50+3.  only the Brute messed with IOs.  I faffed with that for like 2 weeks, and said "too much grinding/market stuff"

I always felt that IO sets were for the serious PVPer, where everyone was looking for the "perfect" build, where every last percentage point mattered.

PvPing was never my cup of tea.  That said, I had a kin/fire scrapper I built using that point of view.  He could hit like a friggin' Mack truck.  A lot of the time, however, he was laid out like he'd been hit by one.  Turns out anything that wasn't hitting him with fire or cold pretty much got a free shot, as hard as they could hit him, because I didn't even know there were numbers to crunch.

On the other side of that spectrum, I knew of someone who had a blaster with softcapped defenses.  I was never gonna go that far, but I was working on patching the holes in my scrapper's defenses when the shutdown happened.

(Suffice it to say my Staff/Invuln scrapper never came anywhere near those problems.)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Thunder Glove on July 14, 2013, 01:20:14 AM
I didn't number crunch in the sense that "must...get...most...optimal... character!", but I did enjoy watching the numbers change, so I usually had the most relevant numbers visible on-screen (Damage bonus for Brutes and Blasters, Smashing Defense and/or Resistance for all melee characters, XP and Inf for everyone, etc), and focused on making them higher.  (That's how I know that my namesake Brute had 10% higher S/L Resist on I24 than he did in I23, thanks to set bonus changes)

I'm a math geek, and I'm a superhero geek, so given the chance to keep one eye on math as it affects a superhero...

Yeah, I liked CoH on all sorts of levels.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Mantic on July 14, 2013, 01:25:58 AM
I don't PVP. Not only was it never a viable option with dialup or satellite internet, I just don't like that kind of gameplay.

But, once I finally gave it the attention, Mid's turned out to be just as fascinating as a creative tool as the costume creator. Just like how throwing around costume parts might spark an idea for a character concept, Mid's could reveal concepts that otherwise were not obvious. Like my character Smoke Factory, a dark/rad Corruptor concept, who belched smoke in the faces of enemies; Mid's showed me the possibility and how it could be viable. It was a great concept (in that the power visuals and their effects supported the conceit of the character), and well-suited to how I liked to play:

Spoiler for Hidden:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build! (http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1541&c=752&a=1504&f=HEX&dc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

Smoke Factory: Level 50 Technology Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Dark Blast
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Gloom -- Cloud-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(3), Cloud-Acc/Rchg(9), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Cloud-ToHitDeb(11), HO:Centri(36)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21), HO:Golgi(23), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 2: Radiation Infection -- HO:Enzym(A), HO:Enzym(5), HO:Enzym(11)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(19), P'Shift-End%(19)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 8: Jump Kick -- B'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(A), B'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(17), FrcFbk-Rechg%(43), FrcFbk-Dmg/KB(46)
Level 10: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(13)
Level 14: Night Fall -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(25), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(34), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(36), DampS-Rchg(36)
Level 16: Dark Pit -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Torrent -- FrcFbk-Rechg%(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(21), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(37), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(37), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(40), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(40)
Level 20: Lingering Radiation -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(46), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(48), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow(50), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(50)
Level 22: Mutation -- EnManip-EndMod/Rchg(A), EnManip-EndMod(23)
Level 24: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Life Drain -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(27), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), HO:Golgi(29), ToHitDeb-I(48)
Level 28: Choking Cloud -- BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-Acc/Hold(34)
Level 30: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 32: Tenebrous Tentacles -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(33), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(33), DampS-Rchg(34)
Level 35: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 38: Blackstar -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx(39), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(39), DampS-Rchg(40)
Level 41: Oppressive Gloom -- RzDz-Immob%(A), RzDz-EndRdx/Stun(42), RzDz-Acc/EndRdx(42), RzDz-Stun/Rng(42), RzDz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(43), RzDz-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Dark Consumption -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(45), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 47: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Heal-I(7), Heal-I(37)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EnManip-EndMod(5), EnManip-EndMod/Rchg(13)
Level 1: Scourge
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Diamagnetic Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Cardiac Boost
------------



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Without such planning, not only would I probably have never stumbled upon the concept, if I had, it never would have been as much fun to play.

The more you messed with Mid's, and played with different kinds of characters in the game, the more it revealed. Between Mid's and tinkering with "ally" critters in AE, I found some of my favorite characters to play.

It's no wonder I had over 200 different live toons by the end. And it seemed I was only just starting to get good at it.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Archlight on August 13, 2013, 03:00:04 PM
I did not PVP and thought PVP was broken/dead by the time IO's came out.

One thing i did was use Io's to break down the Archetype boundries. I had an Armored Corruptor i just loved. a Fire/Sonic Corruptor that just rocked. Had nearly capped S/L resistance high Energy resistance and roughly 35% ranged defense. I remember doing speed ITF runs and being assigned to clean out the traitors while the rest of the team took on the SV. The leader said go do it i have seen what you can do and were going for speed clean them out.
Another was my Fire/Earth Dom that played like a brute. Or my FF/Psi Defender that was tanker tough.

I loved tinkering with IO's they added a level to the game you could play with or not. It also added to my online friends keeping touch as we emailed IO builds back and fourth.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: hejtmane on August 15, 2013, 03:35:29 AM
I jumped on IO's not because of PVP. I jumped on them because it let me do things I did in the past back in I2 and I3 days. Like soloing AV's and getting basically perma elude back and things like that I could do some fun crazy things.

Now it did not reach the stupid level of the dumpster diving days when there was no aoe target limits but it did get us to some similar fun crazy things we could do
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: DarkCurrent on August 15, 2013, 03:54:55 AM
I did not PVP and thought PVP was broken/dead by the time IO's came out.

One thing i did was use Io's to break down the Archetype boundries. I had an Armored Corruptor i just loved. a Fire/Sonic Corruptor that just rocked. Had nearly capped S/L resistance high Energy resistance and roughly 35% ranged defense. I remember doing speed ITF runs and being assigned to clean out the traitors while the rest of the team took on the SV. The leader said go do it i have seen what you can do and were going for speed clean them out.
Another was my Fire/Earth Dom that played like a brute. Or my FF/Psi Defender that was tanker tough.

I loved tinkering with IO's they added a level to the game you could play with or not. It also added to my online friends keeping touch as we emailed IO builds back and fourth.

+1
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: themamboman on August 15, 2013, 02:36:07 PM
If CoH did come back, it should be for the Amiga x1000 platform.

For me, that would be the most fitting...

Sigh.

Wow, you have one of those?  I just sold 2 of my 3 A4000Ts and even if I sold the 3rd, I'd still not have enough $$$ to get one of those mythical beasts (I'd settle for a Morphos version though, good, cheap hardware!)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Absolute on August 15, 2013, 07:53:29 PM
I always felt that IO sets were for the serious PVPer, where everyone was looking for the "perfect" build, where every last percentage point mattered.

Ironically enough, IO sets had the biggest negative effect on PvP. It made more PvE grinding required to PvP effectively, and gated off PvP to only those who could afford it.

IOs should have been free in PvP zones or disabled completely.

I'll have to agree with everyone else and say IOs were not made for PvP. IOs were most likely just to extend the end-game, have possibilities for harder content and be another fun time sink for everyone.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: PunkusJR on August 15, 2013, 10:33:25 PM
Personally I never played with IOs, but my dad and some friends did and they were insane. >.O I always thought IOs were put in the game so we could get to the level of power we could get to back when we could slot six of the same enhancement and have them all be effective. Just kinda made sense to make that level of power something you have to work for. Because when an eleven year old can tank just about anything, something is wrong. xD
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kyuuen on August 16, 2013, 03:39:26 AM

So can someone say something that will cheer me up a little bit and make me not think that the game shutting off WAS the end and whatever?

As long as you remember the game, talk about the game, you'll keep the memory alive.

As long as you keep your own characters alive, and continue to CREATE around them, it keeps the soul of City of Heroes alive. Doesn't matter how. Fanfiction, artwork, or even - someday an animation. As long as the individual residents still have a quest to go on, does it matter if we are looking over their shoulders all the time?

I know of at least one person who isn't finished telling the story of their creations in the Paragon universe.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: healix on August 18, 2013, 05:36:32 PM
When the world says, "Give up,"
Hope whispers, "Try it one more time."

Think of all the things that have been deemed impossible, and became reality. Hold onto hope and dreams no matter what. I believe we will get our City back.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: LaughingAlex on August 18, 2013, 11:17:25 PM
I still have plans for my characters, and I roleplay them in CO.  Granted, if something better came along, i'd jump ship and transplant them to that game, cause CO has a very narrow minded community that only seems to be slitting it's own throat(as they often alienate people, with all the trolls in MC and making things worst the fact that they've litterally given up on their own game).  I'd say CoH isn't dead, because unfortunately nothing better has ever shown up.  They all miss the spark and that flame CoX had; it's unmatched and fun to experiment with variety that other MMO developers continue to prove to afraid of touching and utterly failing for it.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Surelle on August 19, 2013, 02:35:18 AM
All I have to say is, I've thought for ages now that the compatible server currently underway is our best chance at ever flying the skies of Paragon City again.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: mixedemotions on August 19, 2013, 09:04:20 AM
I know CoH will be back, It will be a great day, a day where you would finally have no problems recruiting for a Dr. Q TF   :D :D :D
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Pinnacle Blue on August 19, 2013, 03:27:24 PM
All I have to say is, I've thought for ages now that the compatible server currently underway is our best chance at ever flying the skies of Paragon City again.

You can do that now with Titan Icon.  You can't do much else, but at least you can do that.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TriNitroToluene on August 20, 2013, 12:28:27 AM
Quote
I know CoH will be back, It will be a great day, a day where you would finally have no problems recruiting for a Dr. Q TF

Sign me up.  I'll jump onto that TF, just let me alt.

Here's hoping we can get it started soon.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: hejtmane on August 20, 2013, 04:14:43 AM
I only hope I have nothing to play I have tried and become so easily bored with other games.

Man hurry up someone buy it and put it back on line I will start over at 0 if I have to on my characters. At least I will have something to play I enjoy and to throw my money at
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Eoraptor on August 20, 2013, 05:02:29 AM
My hand to non-existent sky friend, if I can hit one of these half-billion dollar lotteries the first thing I do after my two weeks in Hawaii is get on a plane for Seoul with a briefcase or ten and 80 odd million dollars in them.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: GamingGlen on August 20, 2013, 07:01:48 AM
My hand to non-existent sky friend, if I can hit one of these half-billion dollar lotteries the first thing I do after my two weeks in Hawaii is get on a plane for Seoul with a briefcase or ten and 80 odd million dollars in them.

With that kind of money it would be better making CoH2.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Super Firebug on August 20, 2013, 04:40:56 PM
My hand to non-existent sky friend,...

Could we, please, do this without making fun of others' beliefs?

... if I can hit one of these half-billion dollar lotteries the first thing I do after my two weeks in Hawaii is get on a plane for Seoul with a briefcase or ten and 80 odd million dollars in them.

You couldn't have someone working on the deal while you're in Hawaii? Two weeks would be a long time for the rest of us to wait when we know that there's a possibility like this. And, when you have that kind of money, you know you want to be able to say, "I have people to do that for me."
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on August 20, 2013, 04:50:48 PM
My hand to non-existent sky friend, if I can hit one of these half-billion dollar lotteries the first thing I do after my two weeks in Hawaii is get on a plane for Seoul with a briefcase or ten and 80 odd million dollars in them.

Yeah? Probably will take a bit to get through international customs with that type of dough in a briefcase these days.

But  me too, I probably make an offer myself with that type assuming that the millions offered will not prevent or get in the way of financial stability. And definitely wouldn't hire someone else to "do something like that for me." That would be some one else I must pay, probably high dollar for, for no guarantee on something I could just do myself. Assuming they are even up for offers. But I'd probably stop short of 20-25 million at the most. More than that, the money is just better off and more well spent for me in just putting it into the successor and or part two.

Even will hundreds of millions, doesn't mean I'm going to start throwing money away like water. Still have to survive for 35-50 more years. But if I could, I think making an offer might be a good buy overall and that could be considered my life time charity contribution.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kaiser Tarantula on August 20, 2013, 05:13:27 PM
I've been avoiding responding to the thread mainly because of the title.  Every time I read it, a little bile rises in the back of my throat and I have to take a deep breath to ward off the temptation to warm up the channelgun capacitors in my Crab Spider limbs.  I think now I've cooled off enough that I can remain civil about this.

That said... I'm kinda offended at the mere suggestion that CoH is 'finally dead.'

What really made CoH what it is?  NCsoft?  No, they merely hosted it.  Cryptic, and later Paragon Studios?  Closer, but they just developed and made the software.  The game universe, and all its rich lore and character development?  Still closer, but not quite - that's just the environment it existed within.

No, none of these are what CoH really is.

It's us.  You, me, all of us who played and enjoyed the game, poured our creativity, and maybe even our hearts and souls into creating characters to explore that world.  Who appreciated it enough to support, monetarily, Cryptic, Paragon, and yes even NCsoft before they revealed themselves to be the insipid cretins that they are.  So long as we preserve the memory of CoH and work towards its restoration, either physically (such as the reverse-engineering crew trying to create a compatible server) or in spirit (such as the folks working on Plan Z successor projects, like The Phoenix Project or Heroes and Villains) or in memory (such as the good folks at Paragon Wiki who have exhaustively catalogued much of the game, and still work to piece together what information they're still missing via screenshots, logs and memory), City of Heroes is not dead.

True, it's not playable right now.  We can't gather beneath the namesake of Atlas Park, or in Pocket D, or beneath the statue of Recluse in Grandville.  We can't go pursue heroic missions or dastardly plots in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles.  We can't alternately praise or damn Emperor Cole the Tyrant in Praetoria right now.

But dead?  Not even hardly.

I'm a villain.  Boo and hiss if you must, I've got six limbs with middle fingers to gesture with in return.  Believe me, I've been using them in NCsoft's general direction for quite some time now.  But I digress.  Being a villain teaches you one thing - determination and a lack of scruples can get you a lot in this world.  When you don't really give two arachnoid turds what the rest of the world thinks, and pursue your goals with bloody-minded abandon, you tend to get stuff done.  It tends to shock people when it happens too.  Hehehehe...

We've got a lot of people with this kind of determination in this community.  Yeah, sure, maybe the Disney & Google efforts fell through, with the characteristic silence of a business that wants to tell you 'no' but doesn't have the gonads to do so.  They were worth a shot.  But they weren't the only irons we had in the fire, and still aren't.  There's at least two successor projects, at least one server engineering project, and I really doubt Team Wildcard has fully given up yet.  The sales pitch is still there, waiting for a new possible company to take interest.

It might be a bit of a 'shotgun approach to world conquest' but hey, sometimes that works.  No good villain relies solely on one evil scheme.  Backup plans upon backup plans - every good Mastermind practically breathes this phrase like a mantra.  We're not done yet, not by a long shot.

Me?  I can't do much at the moment.  My talents lie towards blasting things that offend me, not business maneuvering or computer code manipulation.  I'll definitely help out here I can when the opportunity presents itself, that time just hasn't come yet.  I'm fine with that.  Patience is probably the one virtue that good villains are a bit reticent to give up.

But so long as these plans still exist, so long as some option exists for CoH to return, so long as its community stays together and keeps its memory alive, CoH is not dead.

Merely sleeping.

EDIT: A quick addendum for those who think I'm just spouting prose here.  Earth & Beyond has a fan-made server reverse-engineered from scratch.  It took them over three years to get it to a playable state.  Yet, here it is (http://www.net-7.org/) and it's fully playable now.

CoH is a much, much larger and more complex game than Earth and Beyond.  It may take longer.  But we've already seen the beginnings (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,8964.0.html).  We've already got a way to fool the client into letting us create costumes and enter the game world, in demorecord mode.  It's only a matter of time.  It's not even been a year since the shutdown notice yet.

Have some faith in our local computer wizards and supergeniuses, hmm?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Pinnacle Blue on August 20, 2013, 05:26:45 PM
Could we, please, do this without making fun of others' beliefs?

To be fair, there's more than one sky friend out there and Eoraptor didn't specify one.  ;)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: healix on August 20, 2013, 07:04:45 PM
I have never had more faith that we will someday have our City back. I cling to that faith with my whole being.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Harpospoke on November 03, 2013, 07:31:46 PM
I'm a villain.  Boo and hiss if you must, I've got six limbs with middle fingers to gesture with in return.  Believe me, I've been using them in NCsoft's general direction for quite some time now.  But I digress.  Being a villain teaches you one thing - determination and a lack of scruples can get you a lot in this world.  When you don't really give two arachnoid turds what the rest of the world thinks, and pursue your goals with bloody-minded abandon, you tend to get stuff done.  It tends to shock people when it happens too.  Hehehehe...

We've got a lot of people with this kind of determination in this community.  Yeah, sure, maybe the Disney & Google efforts fell through, with the characteristic silence of a business that wants to tell you 'no' but doesn't have the gonads to do so.  They were worth a shot.  But they weren't the only irons we had in the fire, and still aren't.  There's at least two successor projects, at least one server engineering project, and I really doubt Team Wildcard has fully given up yet.  The sales pitch is still there, waiting for a new possible company to take interest.

It might be a bit of a 'shotgun approach to world conquest' but hey, sometimes that works.  No good villain relies solely on one evil scheme.  Backup plans upon backup plans - every good Mastermind practically breathes this phrase like a mantra.  We're not done yet, not by a long shot.

Me?  I can't do much at the moment.  My talents lie towards blasting things that offend me, not business maneuvering or computer code manipulation.  I'll definitely help out here I can when the opportunity presents itself, that time just hasn't come yet.  I'm fine with that.  Patience is probably the one virtue that good villains are a bit reticent to give up.

But so long as these plans still exist, so long as some option exists for CoH to return, so long as its community stays together and keeps its memory alive, CoH is not dead.

Merely sleeping.

EDIT: A quick addendum for those who think I'm just spouting prose here.  Earth & Beyond has a fan-made server reverse-engineered from scratch.  It took them over three years to get it to a playable state.  Yet, here it is (http://www.net-7.org/) and it's fully playable now.

CoH is a much, much larger and more complex game than Earth and Beyond.  It may take longer.  But we've already seen the beginnings (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,8964.0.html).  We've already got a way to fool the client into letting us create costumes and enter the game world, in demorecord mode.  It's only a matter of time.  It's not even been a year since the shutdown notice yet.

Have some faith in our local computer wizards and supergeniuses, hmm?
Here here!   I needed to read this.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kyriani on November 03, 2013, 09:32:14 PM
Don't give up. The city will rise again!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: The Fifth Horseman on November 03, 2013, 11:12:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjjZq18dp3w
's all. Ain't over till we let it. So don't.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on November 04, 2013, 12:58:23 AM
So long as a hero stands tall, CoH is not dead.

So long as a villain terrorizes the innocent, CoH is not dead.

CoH is more than code and artwork, it is a living thing, one made up of all of us. So long as we survive, so does CoH.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Tahquitz on November 04, 2013, 06:54:12 AM
NCSoft (Nihilists): Yes, CoH is dead.  Have you tried Blade and Soul?

Paragon Studios (Optimists): As long as the players care about it, it'll never die.

Titan Network (Pragmatists): We are CoH's lifeboat, whatever happens to it.

My perspective (Self-described Huguenot): Paragon City is gone-- Atlas Park, Mercy Island, Nova Praetoria... all blown to hell.  But we'll have another home in two to three years from Plan Z projects (one of them had a VERY good day today: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/ ).  If that's too far in the future for you, that's why Titan Network exists.

And we have other Free to play games to fill the time until then... I have accounts on the three Cryptic Studios games (Star Trek Online, Champions Online, and Neverwinter), Aeria Games, and The Secret World. If anyone wants to meet up and play sometime, PM me for globals and servers (I check this site once a week).  I'm no expert or min-maxer, so I can't help powerlevel you or make a PvP build, but I can definitely help with the basics and getting around.  Just know that I'm a refugee from Triumph, and on Triumph, whatever we end up playing, we play without pants.  (This is the cost of admission, and is completely non-negotiable.)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: healix on November 05, 2013, 12:14:46 PM
Tahquitz, Triumph was my only server, and all my characters were there. Like you, I am a realistic person, but I won't believe that Paragon City is gone. Look at all the things that were unheard of at one time...walking on the moon is a pretty good example. Compared to that, getting CoH back is not that unrealistic, I respect you, my fellow pantsless friend, and I am not trying to change your mind....I am trying to open it. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/HvQhCu0.jpg)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: OzonePrime on November 05, 2013, 02:20:59 PM
Tahquitz, Triumph was my only server, and all my characters were there. Like you, I am a realistic person, but I won't believe that Paragon City is gone. Look at all the things that were unheard of at one time...walking on the moon is a pretty good example. Compared to that, getting CoH back is not that unrealistic, I respect you, my fellow pantsless friend, and I am not trying to change your mind....I am trying to open it. :)

(https://i.imgur.com/HvQhCu0.jpg)
Well said! :)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: eabrace on November 05, 2013, 02:34:44 PM
Tahquitz, Triumph was my only server, and all my characters were there. Like you, I am a realistic person, but I won't believe that Paragon City is gone. Look at all the things that were unheard of at one time...walking on the moon is a pretty good example. Compared to that, getting CoH back is not that unrealistic, I respect you, my fellow pantsless friend, and I am not trying to change your mind....I am trying to open it. :)
And when we return to the city, we will go marching pantsless through the streets and basking in the city's glory!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Tacitala on November 05, 2013, 04:04:02 PM
My perspective (Self-described Huguenot): Paragon City is gone-- Atlas Park, Mercy Island, Nova Praetoria... all blown to hell.

Nonsense, they were just fine when I fired up Icon a few days ago.  We just don't have the things the sever was handling- yet.  Give the reverse engineering folks some time.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: healix on November 05, 2013, 08:46:46 PM
Nonsense, they were just fine when I fired up Icon a few days ago.  We just don't have the things the sever was handling- yet.  Give the reverse engineering folks some time.

Wow...I was thinking along the same line. I mean, who would have dreamed we could get back in the game for any reason??? When I look at my puter, I see a big metal box sitting there. What's going on inside, unseen, is a hub of activity. That's why I think we will get our City back. Too many people want it back...and who knows what might be going on that we don't see. Until we fly those familiar skies once more, I will continue to say

(https://i.imgur.com/g16Jed0l.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/HK7MQFo.png)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: fufu on November 15, 2013, 10:46:52 AM
CoH(X) will always stay in my heart. Nothing more to say. It was fantastic with Mid's Hero Designer tool.
And yes, i will play City of Titans, of course.

Cy soon there  ;)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: batqueen on November 15, 2013, 11:06:27 PM
   When Paragon blew up, it threw large chunks of city out into cyberspace. Many of these chunks seem to be separate instances of the same streets. Each instance is protected by a force field or dome like Superman's little Kryptonian shard. The heroes and villains trapped inside each one survived, and are fine. Somehow, The city was not completely destroyed, but was shattered into many pieces.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/BatQueen/silent-running-dome.png)
 
   Titan Forums are how the separate cities are connected, lashed together like rafts out in the ocean. We are the survivors looking for a way to reconnect. We have lost some along the way, they couldn't hold on any more. When the day rises on a new Paragon, surely we will see them again.
 
   So, tend to your pieces of Atlas Park, Pocket D and Mercy Island. We are so much closer now than when we started a year ago. If you really miss it, that proves it's still Worth waiting and trying for. This is how it survives. This is how it comes back, because people never stop asking, and wanting, and hacking, and doing anything they can do to get everything back.

   And... I can see, with my Super Vision Scope 7000, way over there, that it's indeed true, Taci and Healix's Cities and heroes (and villains!) are doing just fine.
 
They're just ...waiting.

It all makes me feel a little like Huey and Dewey though...

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/BatQueen/huey.png)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Tahquitz on November 16, 2013, 06:19:37 AM
Wow, I did not intend for my remarks to have such a reaction, nor did I have no intent of "trolling", apologies if anyone saw it that way.  (And yes, to paraphrase Eminem, I forgot about Icon.)  And I certainly do not want to drag on the people working on unofficial servers, Plan Z projects, or reverse engineering efforts, who can't give deadlines on anything they are doing.  I certainly don't expect to complain and get results tomorrow. 

Why I wrote what I did is because I don't think NCSoft is going to change their mind: their position on the game has been unchanged since the August announcement last year; the message has been consistent and harsh.  If there was any news about City of Heroes from NCSoft since then that was different in tone (the "we've exhausted all other options" post wasn't positive at all), I'd feel differently.

And that NCSoft selling a game would be a first-ever occurence, considering their history.  I remember a comment that a Tabula Rasa blogger made in 2009 (http://evilasahobby.com/2009/11/04/why-ncsoft-doesnt-sell-off-its-failures/) that stated that NCSoft doesn't want to compete against a product they made.  (I know, bloggers are a dime a dozen and not a news outlet.)  And NCSoft's past so far is proving that to be absolutely true.  If City of Heroes was sold, reopened, or released to the community in some manner, it would be a first for the company.  That is a lot to expect based on how they've ignored Tabula Rasa's users and their repeated attempts to get their game back online (One attempt as recent as this year (http://www.pcgamesn.com/tabula-rasa-petition-calls-mmo-s-revival), but unlike City of Heroes, TR was complicated by very public litigation.) 

I know Titan Network users still hold out hope that things will change, and apart from the circumstances of why or how I would love to see City of Heroes come back if it did.  I would love to be proven wrong about NCSoft ("And what happened then...? Well...in Seoul they say that T.J. Kim's small heart grew three sizes that day!") I'm just listing the above to explain why I said what I said, not to campaign my beliefs to others and keep arguing about it.

Next Year in Paragon, at the least, if only in our own hearts.  If in a server flying around with friends, even better. :D
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: johnrobey on November 16, 2013, 08:06:18 AM
I think that it is reasonable not to pin high hopes on a speedy return of CoH.  City of Heroes is so excellent, I feel it's eventual return is likely, almost inevitable, but the future will show whether my opinion is overly optimistic or not,  So, no we don't have game.  And it's been one year, a year that had some pretty incredible creative thinking and fan activity.  Last I heard Team Wildcard hasn't given up.  And we do have City of Titans - okay, I know that's another year wait.  At minimum, we have our camaraderie & community here.

/em holdtorch

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Ohioknight on November 16, 2013, 04:27:13 PM
I think that it is reasonable not to pin high hopes on a speedy return of CoH.  City of Heroes is so excellent, I feel it's eventual return is likely, almost inevitable, but the future will show whether my opinion is overly optimistic or not,  So, no we don't have game.  And it's been one year, a year that had some pretty incredible creative thinking and fan activity.  Last I heard Team Wildcard hasn't given up.  And we do have City of Titans - okay, I know that's another year wait.  At minimum, we have our camaraderie & community here.

/em holdtorch

I'm fairly certain COH will not return from NCSoft. 

I fully expect COH to return in the form of a set of tools that will allow users to create and share game content that is playable in Paragon city with all of the characters and capabilities that were on the 24 beta client and also with their own custom creations and story/game content.

I would expect that those tools would be based on a general server architecture that could either establish private servers or allow solo machine play (perhaps by emulating virtual server/client(s) on a single machine)

Private server networks acting like multiple instances of our old city zones???

I will be surprised if more of those tools are not distributed in less than a year from now.

NCSoft/Paragon Studios let us create Atlas Park 33.  See you in Atlas Park 333.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Brightfires on November 16, 2013, 05:50:26 PM
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/BatQueen/silent-running-dome.png)

This made me grin.  8)
(Says the woman who's had 'Rejoice in the Sun' on her "Favorites" playlist for many, many years-)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: XboxVillain1 on November 20, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
The CoX shutdown reminds me, in many ways, of the networks shutdown back in the day of a campy old sci-fi series that "nobody" cared about and no one wanted to support.  I think the name of it was Star Trek.

Anyone talked to Perfect World Entertainment about this then?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on November 20, 2013, 03:07:46 PM
Anyone talked to Perfect World Entertainment about this then?
One of their execs is already on record telling NCSoft of their interest.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: XboxVillain1 on November 21, 2013, 03:32:29 AM
One of their execs is already on record telling NCSoft of their interest.

Good, hopefully something will come of it.  They have taken much less promising projects *cough* BlackLight Retribution
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on November 21, 2013, 03:45:42 AM
One of their execs is already on record telling NCSoft of their interest.

Are you talking about Jack's comment?

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on November 21, 2013, 04:04:25 AM
One of their execs is already on record telling NCSoft of their interest.
Of course, that won't matter one teeny bit. There's no way NCSoft will ever release CoH, not under any circumstances.  I am absolutely convinced of that at this point.  That's why all the efforts to convince them to sell will fail - they just won't let it go.  That's why SCoRE is so important - it's the only way we'll ever get our city back.

NCSoft is pure evil and they'll cling to CoH to their dying breath, just to stick it to us.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on November 21, 2013, 05:17:52 AM
Are you talking about Jack's comment?
Yup. He is technically an exec.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on November 21, 2013, 11:55:42 AM
Yup. He is technically an exec.

Cryptic is the only company out there I think would have a realistic chance of being able to bring back COH if they acquired the IP.

It uses their engine and they have more of the old studio than probably anyone else.

That being said, I doubt Jack-- even if he really wanted to-- could convince PW to foot the cash to purchase COH.

Though if I were Cryptic, I would probably be designing a fresh super hero game that's close to COH's style than CO's.  Given how many COHers did not
like CO when they tried it (Though many of us do, me included), they could probably pick up a fair number of new players if they did without affecting CO's
population all that much.

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on November 21, 2013, 12:02:00 PM
There's no way NCSoft will ever release CoH, not under any circumstances.

I'm not convinced. They're a publicly traded company; if they have an asset which generates no revenue, whose value will diminish over time, and which brings a certain amount of bad PR (and the sale of which would generate some good PR), they can hardly refuse a generous offer from it without questions being raised by shareholders.

I think the difficulty is more that the amount of money that would be difficult to justify refusing is considerably more than CoX is worth from a purely business perspective (at this point, if you brought it back, the hard core would resubscribe, but who else?) so essentially it could only happen if someone independently wealthy did it as a labour of love.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: OzonePrime on November 21, 2013, 02:26:33 PM
If they were to bring it back, this hardcore player would play and bring about
30 new players into the game. Over time, word of mouth, from those players and myself, would build a nice community! 


/em hold torch
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on November 21, 2013, 05:01:05 PM
I'm not convinced. They're a publicly traded company; if they have an asset which generates no revenue, whose value will diminish over time, and which brings a certain amount of bad PR (and the sale of which would generate some good PR), they can hardly refuse a generous offer from it without questions being raised by shareholders.

I think the difficulty is more that the amount of money that would be difficult to justify refusing is considerably more than CoX is worth from a purely business perspective (at this point, if you brought it back, the hard core would resubscribe, but who else?) so essentially it could only happen if someone independently wealthy did it as a labour of love.
I wish that were true, but there were offers to buy CoH, and NCSoft didn't even acknowledge their existence.  They just wanted CoH dead and buried - and that's what they got.  They'll never sell.  Our sorrow at City's demise warms their cold, cold hearts, to the extent that they bother to acknowledge we exist.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on November 21, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
I'm not convinced. They're a publicly traded company; if they have an asset which generates no revenue, whose value will diminish over time, and which brings a certain amount of bad PR (and the sale of which would generate some good PR), they can hardly refuse a generous offer from it without questions being raised by shareholders.

I think the difficulty is more that the amount of money that would be difficult to justify refusing is considerably more than CoX is worth from a purely business perspective (at this point, if you brought it back, the hard core would resubscribe, but who else?) so essentially it could only happen if someone independently wealthy did it as a labour of love.
yup. but would be good PR in the long run?

More than likely, even if they brought it back soon, say in the next few months, there would be alot of up front costs from hiring to potentially an office building for the studio to operate out of for resurrecting a product that now especially at first will bring in relatively low income levels, and potentiall take long time to recoup those costs. Many ex players already sworn off ncsoft lead COX. And mroe than likely the vets taht do return probably wont feel comfortable spending as much as anywhere as they did prior. Thus which could lead to potentially another shut down situation whether because it's not bringing enough money or actually unprofitable and then restart the bad PR thing all over again. Why would they risk that?

They could sell, but NCSOFT is not the first and probably wont be the last to turn down crazy amount of money for their assets. Microsoft tried to buy facebook long time ago for about 17 billion. Z-man turned them down. Many people thought at the time he went bat crap crazy to turn down 17 billion. Luckily though in hindsight it was the right move as viewed by many but usually it dont work out like that. Think about all the porducts since 1940 that companies are still holding on to but havent seen production in decades. Why are they holding on to those assets that are not generating any sort of income and some been gone so long that it's assets that are probably near worthless now and hardly anyone remembers it? Who knows.

From the looks of it, if in fact the bad PR did as much damage as some here say it did, then more than likely they wont risk that happening again especially with the same crowd of people by bringing it back and the likely hood that it will make the same or less than it was making prior to the shut down.

on the flip side, buying an asset is a two way and pretty complicated process. Its not as easy as showing up with a bag of money saying "Here, now hand over COX." And given that there havent been any actually faactual proof of what was offered, those offers might in fact been not so generous at all or filled with too many strings attached. I.E. wanting NCSOFT to take the fall for future lawsuits on a product they would no longer own. Not saying that is or was or will be the case but  merely an example.

Or hell it may be very well that NCSOFT dont want to sell, but just because there was offers and because NCSOFT turned them down doesnt mean automatically it's due to ncsoft. NCSOFT can sell any time. The asset is not bringing in money but it's not costing money either. But selling it may indirectly cost them money especially if they ever choose from now until end of time wanting to get back into the super hero mmo. One key to business is to never shut a door permantly that one may want to open again. Simply close the door but always leave a crack in it. Fantasy games are a dime of dozen. Super hero games, I dont think there are even a dozen. NCSOFT more than likely knows this and probably dont want to be kicking themselves later down the line when they try to get in cold turkey in the super heroo mmo if and when it does take off. As long as they hold that asset, that is less work, less copyright paper work they must fill out, and the IP and concept is already there. And since many people say they will never forget COX, that means the name is known within a market already compared to having to start completely from scratch and trying to avoid being sued for infringement on something they used to own. Right now, the asset is like a ticket, a rain check, and as long as they hold on to it, no one can use COX or the lore. If they hand for a quick buck or two then it's basically a gift drop to real or potential present or future competitor. Thus may be the reason for the high price.

Like if a a person was running a software company and a competitor needed the office space that isnt being used. some people may give it to them. Many will not especially if that office space is all the competitor needs to get ahead of ya. But in business, charity and for the warm fuzzy feeling usually dont mesh unless it would be significantly profitable. There are many products being sold that if the company wanted to be warm and fuzzy and care about the customers they would lower the price of said product and assets they are not using would simply be given away just so a few people cheer them. Cheers doesnt always equate to money. It can be viewed if people was serious about spending money seriously and ensuring the health of the game they would have done so while it was alive. Now that it's dead, bringing it back especially if the bad PR was in fact a factor, it's the unknown. People want NCSOFT to make guarantees but what guarntee is given to them? Aka, besides a few warm and fuzzy cheers, what is in it for them and what guarantees do they have?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Golden Girl on November 22, 2013, 05:00:10 AM
Our biggest problem is the size of NCsoft relative to the value of CoH - it's basically loose change to them, so their financial situation would have to be be pretty much bankrupt before they'd be forced into selling it, as they'd have to be really desperate for cash before the few million they'd get for CoH would seem worth selling it.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on November 22, 2013, 05:20:20 AM
Our biggest problem is the size of NCsoft relative to the value of CoH - it's basically loose change to them, so their financial situation would have to be be pretty much bankrupt before they'd be forced into selling it, as they'd have to be really desperate for cash before the few million they'd get for CoH would seem worth selling it.
basically.
 a couple of million to NCSOFT is like a 1 penny out of a dollar. Not many people will go out on a limb, fret, worry, or do much for a penny these days. Most people wouldn't even bother picking up a penny laying in the street. By definition it's free money, it's a penny they didn't have before, but a person that where a penny isn't going to make a difference or they wont miss a penny, probably wont pay it too much mind, hell some people refuse to carry pennies or even throw them away.

 
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: OzonePrime on November 22, 2013, 02:21:15 PM
Our biggest problem is the size of NCsoft relative to the value of CoH - it's basically loose change to them, so their financial situation would have to be be pretty much bankrupt before they'd be forced into selling it, as they'd have to be really desperate for cash before the few million they'd get for CoH would seem worth selling it.

The only hope we've, ever, had of reviving CoH was that stranger things have happened. There's always that possility, however slim.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Spellcaster Hana on November 22, 2013, 04:43:36 PM
We have a bigger chance of bringing back CoX or at least the only thing I could think of if we're to buy NCSoft ourselves. Sadly, we need someone filthy rich who's willing to do that.  :roll:
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on November 22, 2013, 06:39:41 PM
Our biggest problem is the size of NCsoft relative to the value of CoH - it's basically loose change to them, so their financial situation would have to be be pretty much bankrupt before they'd be forced into selling it, as they'd have to be really desperate for cash before the few million they'd get for CoH would seem worth selling it.

Basically we're just a bunch of Hobbits to them.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on November 22, 2013, 07:06:28 PM
We have a bigger chance of bringing back CoX or at least the only thing I could think of if we're to buy NCSoft ourselves. Sadly, we need someone filthy rich who's willing to do that.  :roll:
Gotta convince one why it's good business/investment to go for it. Which usually requires more than the usual warm fuzzy do it for the charity and praise from the old COX community.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Klendarin on November 22, 2013, 08:26:26 PM
Basically we're just a bunch of Hobbits to them.

Yeah, but the Hobbits win!  Then again, I'm almost inclined to agree with Gollum: "Stupid, fat NCSoft.  We wants it, we needs it. Must have the CoH. They stole it from us. Sneaky little NCSoft. Wicked, tricksy, false!"
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: batqueen on November 22, 2013, 10:08:55 PM
Yeah, but the Hobbits win!  Then again, I'm almost inclined to agree with Gollum: "Stupid, fat NCSoft.  We wants it, we needs it. Must have the CoH. They stole it from us. Sneaky little NCSoft. Wicked, tricksy, false!"

Oh, there we are, that's the sound of the voice in my head when i think about all this! My Precious!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on November 22, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
Yeah but I don't think we really need a Gollum. We need a Gandalf!
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JWBullfrog on November 23, 2013, 03:43:17 AM
Dead? Dead?
 
Did Star Trek die when it was cancelled? No! Did Firefly die? No! Was it all over whrn the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
 
Germans?
 
Forget it, he's rolling...
 
It ain't over now!
 
"Cause when the going gets tough... the tough get going! Who's with me? Let's go! Come on!
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaaa!
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: downix on November 24, 2013, 12:00:29 AM
Dead? Dead?
 
Did Star Trek die when it was cancelled? No! Did Firefly die? No! Was it all over whrn the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
 
Germans?
 
Forget it, he's rolling...
 
It ain't over now!
 
"Cause when the going gets tough... the tough get going! Who's with me? Let's go! Come on!
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaaa!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JWBullfrog on November 24, 2013, 02:04:17 AM
love it when people get the reference.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on November 25, 2013, 01:28:01 AM
Our biggest problem is the size of NCsoft relative to the value of CoH - it's basically loose change to them, so their financial situation would have to be be pretty much bankrupt before they'd be forced into selling it, as they'd have to be really desperate for cash before the few million they'd get for CoH would seem worth selling it.

As explained between the floods of guff from Jag, that's not really accurate; there's a difference between being forced to sell something (which they won't be) and it being worth selling something because the expected value is less than the purchase price. The forcing comes in not because the company needs the money, but because shareholders would like to know why it doesn't take the money; it doesn't work out for us because no-one else has any better assessment of the expected value, so they don't offer.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Taceus Jiwede on November 25, 2013, 05:35:47 AM
NCSoft would sell it if you offered them enough money for it.  But no one is willing to offer up that kind of money.  I am not talking about the 8 million or whatever the number is that went around as the asking price.  If you walked in with 100 million dollars, or even 50, or 20 million dollars.  They would sell.  But no one is willing to put up that kind of cash for CoH IP sadly.  Too bad Bill Gates isn't a die hard CoH fan.

Dear Mr.Gates  Plz buy CoH. 
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on November 25, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
NCSoft would sell it if you offered them enough money for it.
Again, I sincerely doubt it.  For whatever reason, they'll keep in their vaults until the end of time, never doing anything with it (indeed, they'll never even publicly refer to it ever again), and ignore any offers to purchase it, at any price.  SCoRE is the only way we'll ever walk the streets of our City again.  Count on it.

I really, really wish this wasn't true, but at this point, I've seen nothing that even slightly persuades me this is not the case.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JWBullfrog on November 25, 2013, 09:59:45 PM

I really, really wish this wasn't true, but at this point, I've seen nothing that even slightly persuades me this is not the case.

Short of a massive corporate takeover by people sympathetic to our cause, I'm afraid I have to agree on this. I suspect that other than a few lines in an accounting sheet somewhere that show the final costs of the shutdown and how they were offset slightly by the reconversion of the servers to a new project, NCSoft doesn't even admit to the existence of CoH.
 
Ok, a slightly bitter assessment there but probably not far off the mark.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on November 26, 2013, 12:44:11 AM
I really, really wish this wasn't true, but at this point, I've seen nothing that even slightly persuades me this is not the case.

The trivial case is that the entire company has a price. Last I looked, it was about 6 billion USD. Bill Gates could buy it tomorrow and release the City the day after that.

Of course, that's not going to happen. But, any asset it has, has its price. It's not that the City isn't for sale; it's that putting up the money for it is a tough proposition.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on November 26, 2013, 01:10:24 AM
If I won some sort of mega-lottery tomorrow and showed up at their HQ in SK the next day with a cashier's check for $6 billion, do you really think they would sell?  Somehow, I doubt it.

My whole point is, after all that I've seen of this saga so far - I don't think this is about the money with them.  They closed CoH for some other reason - a reason they still consider Top Secret.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on November 26, 2013, 01:19:33 AM
I know titan network will never support my Plan ZIB, but... can I have.. please have permission to carry out plan ZIB if google = fail?

I'm not suggesting that google will say no, infact I'm suggesting they will say yes, but we can't be sure how stubborn NCSoft will be about it's descision to not sell, google might end up telling us "hey we tried, they said no, sorry we can't legally make them an offer they will accept"

PLEASE can I do my plan ZIB then TonyV? at least it will get the IP out of NCSoft's hands.. in a legal method. I.. I've been holding off cause I don't want to sabatoge TF Hail mary.

I have already talked to several lawyers concerning ZIB, they seemed hopeful. so.. yeah. just give me an opening :D titan network wont be mentioned as a conspirator, for your image's sake.
yeah, as TB said, go for it.

Plus what is the worse that could happen that is any worse than any other things that been tried?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on November 26, 2013, 02:47:30 AM
If I won some sort of mega-lottery tomorrow and showed up at their HQ in SK the next day with a cashier's check for $6 billion, do you really think they would sell?

Assuming the last time I saw their market cap is accurate, yes, because you could buy the _entire company_ for that.

Quote
They closed CoH for some other reason - a reason they still consider Top Secret.

Occam's Razor suggests that's not accurate. Lots of MMOs have closed under quite similar circumstances. Why should the City be special?
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JanessaVR on November 26, 2013, 02:59:06 AM
Assuming the last time I saw their market cap is accurate, yes, because you could buy the _entire company_ for that.
To clarify, I meant the entire company.   ;D

Occam's Razor suggests that's not accurate. Lots of MMOs have closed under quite similar circumstances. Why should the City be special?
Because that's not how they've treated this.  CoH was in the black and they've resolutely refused to say just why they closed it, and then they refused multiple offers to sell it.  To me, that says it was not about the money.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Taceus Jiwede on November 26, 2013, 04:44:07 AM
Well they probably wouldn't sell you the company for that.  Maybe they would sell the IP for it.  But if you won 250 million, took the lump sum and gave them 120 million dollars.  They would sell the IP I am guessing.  Its hard to turn down 120 million dollars.  But that is very unlikely that someone would win Mega-Millions and spend every penny of it on the CoH IP.  As awesome as it would be.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on November 26, 2013, 11:53:25 AM
To clarify, I meant the entire company.

Well, in that case, the answer is yes. If you had $6 billion or so, you could buy the company - not by turning up at their HQ and slapping down the cash, but you could buy up the stock.

Quote
Because that's not how they've treated this.  CoH was in the black and they've resolutely refused to say just why they closed it, and then they refused multiple offers to sell it.  To me, that says it was not about the money.

I really don't see it as atypical. Most closure announcements are bland and unspecific; most games are probably still in the black on a day to day basis when closed (it's just not worth doing more development, and "keep it ticking over" hasn't been seen as a viable option).
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: XboxVillain1 on November 26, 2013, 02:27:45 PM
Anyone mind updating me on what SCoRE is exactly?  Thanks.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Tacitala on November 26, 2013, 03:37:34 PM
They closed CoH for some other reason - a reason they still consider Top Secret.

I vote "they're crazy" as the top secret reason.

Anyone mind updating me on what SCoRE is exactly?  Thanks.

It was the lighthearted nickname tossed out for the people who are working on creating an emulator- The Secret Cabal of Reverse Engineers.  We know an emulator is in the works but, due to the nature of things being slightly in a grey area, information other than "it's being worked on" isn't publicly available.  Personally, it's my best hope for the return of CoH.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: XboxVillain1 on November 26, 2013, 11:15:17 PM
I certainly hope someone is working on it, I truly miss it.  I would even settle for offline play or perhaps local network play.  No other super power MMO even competes, DC Universe had a few perks but overall was nothing in comparison.  So far I have yet to see a more in depth costume design, and the pool powers were excellent.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on November 27, 2013, 12:43:04 AM
They might be crazy in not wanting to sell it for it any reasonable offer, but we might be the only ones crazy enough to seriously consider offering six billion dollars to buy a video game.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: saipaman on November 27, 2013, 01:38:40 AM
But you wouldn't get just a video game for your six billion dollars!  You'd get to fire the management of NCSoft.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Taceus Jiwede on November 27, 2013, 05:56:27 AM
They might be crazy in not wanting to sell it for it any reasonable offer, but we might be the only ones crazy enough to seriously consider offering six billion dollars to buy a video game.

Six million actually.  6 billion would buy all of NCSoft.  and you still would have 5.5+ billion left over.  You could buy NCSoft, make a COH Movie.  Make a COH 2. And let people play them both for free for the forseeable future for 6 billion dollars.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: CoyoteSeven on November 27, 2013, 10:19:10 AM
Six million actually.  6 billion would buy all of NCSoft.  and you still would have 5.5+ billion left over.  You could buy NCSoft, make a COH Movie.  Make a COH 2. And let people play them both for free for the forseeable future for 6 billion dollars.

I suppose we could also move the entire operation to the U.S., dump all of its other projects, and rename the company "City of Heroes, Inc."
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: thunderforce on November 27, 2013, 12:07:46 PM
They might be crazy in not wanting to sell it for it any reasonable offer, but we might be the only ones crazy enough to seriously consider offering six billion dollars to buy a video game.

I don't think anyone is seriously considering that. I'm merely observing that the entire company is for sale for roughly that price and hence there _is_ a price for the City.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Taceus Jiwede on November 27, 2013, 06:50:33 PM
I suppose we could also move the entire operation to the U.S., dump all of its other projects, and rename the company "City of Heroes, Inc."

We can keep the CEO around.  Demote him.  And call him Flambeux
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: saipaman on November 27, 2013, 11:11:09 PM
I suppose we could also move the entire operation to the U.S., dump all of its other projects, and rename the company "City of Heroes, Inc."

That's too close to becoming the thing we hate most.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: JaguarX on November 27, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
I suppose we could also move the entire operation to the U.S., dump all of its other projects, and rename the company "City of Heroes, Inc."

yeah, that would then make it no better and actually worse than NCSOFT, the behavior that caused so much angst in this manner to begin with. Might as well keep the old company as is in that case.

And unless one of the billionaires that pull it off is one of us, keep in mind, most billionaires of the US are more ruthless than Kim could ever dream of being when running a business. Mr. Gates may look like a nice go lucky nerd, but business wise, that man is ruthless to the point that would make JP Morgan smile when it comes to business. And have no qualms with forced obsoleting old products to funnel people into new products and killing off under performing products no matter the warm and fuzzy that can be gained from keeping it alive.

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Spellcaster Hana on January 07, 2014, 03:55:41 PM
They might be crazy in not wanting to sell it for it any reasonable offer, but we might be the only ones crazy enough to seriously consider offering six billion dollars to buy a video game.

Well then call me crazy if I seriously did acquire 6 billion dollars and buy CoX or NCSoft. I think maybe, if I did have all the luck, I might actually have done something that drastic for the sake of CoX.

...Argh, I miss CoX!  :gonk:
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Drauger9 on January 07, 2014, 07:04:59 PM
Quote
We can keep the CEO around.  Demote him.  And call him Flambeux

To the mailroom with you Flambeux!!! *cackle* :P

In all seriousness if I ever did win a large sum of money. I'd make them an offer wiether they took it or not would be up to them. But say I offered them 50 mill (just throwing a number out there) and they turned it down. Then at the very least we'd know around what kind of numbers they'd be will to play with, if any at all......
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Kaos Arcanna on January 07, 2014, 08:32:29 PM

The thing I think would be interesting would be if someone did manage to buy the game and the simply released the code to the public so that private servers wouldn't have to worry about legal prosecution.

(Though I wonder if someone could do that as Cryptic still owns the Engine rights. NCSoft was simply giving a lifetime right to lease it.)

Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: TonyV on January 08, 2014, 07:22:23 PM
The thing I think would be interesting would be if someone did manage to buy the game and the simply released the code to the public so that private servers wouldn't have to worry about legal prosecution.

(Though I wonder if someone could do that as Cryptic still owns the Engine rights. NCSoft was simply giving a lifetime right to lease it.)

If I had $6 billion, I'm pretty sure Cryptic and I could work something out, I'm just sayin'.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: saipaman on January 09, 2014, 01:45:11 AM
I'm sure that for some amount of money, Cryptic would be happy to open source their engine.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Devil_Boy on January 28, 2014, 09:37:03 PM
God I wish i could just play
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Cobra Man on January 30, 2014, 05:54:08 AM
God I wish i could just play

+1 to that ....
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: healix on January 30, 2014, 09:11:48 PM
+1,000,000,000 to that +1
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: LadyShin on March 08, 2014, 07:01:01 PM
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk%2Fi%2Fkeep-calm-because-goonies-never-say-die.png)


(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ihSEYpEplxE%2FUnpstDs-ipI%2FAAAAAAAABYI%2FYsKNONQY2P0%2Fs1600%2Fgoonies%2Bnever%2Bsay%2Bdie.jpg)
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Azrael on March 13, 2014, 01:45:06 PM
If I had $6 billion, I'm pretty sure Cryptic and I could work something out, I'm just sayin'.

Hmm.  Tony, read the below quote from Ironwolf.

Quote
A company did offer to buy the IP and NCSoft was willing to sell it for very little. However they wanted to keep the game engine rights. The company decided the IP without the engine wasn't what they wanted.

Interesting.  I didn't know this.

Furthermore.  The deal involving 'Brian' and co. that collapsed due to some variables.

I'm guessing:

Cost.
Ownership of the engine.
Assurances of PR backfire to NC Soft.

1. Did we ever find out how much was offered in the original bid?  (Could we find out from Brian himself or anyone else privy to this meetings?)

2. The quote from Ironwolf suggests that the IP/COh game could be acquired for relatively little.  Do we know what  said company offered?  Do we even know who that company was?  Did they wish to own the engine outright?  That suggests a hurdle in their case.

3. What I'm getting at.  That being the case, could the original Paragon buyout plan be resurrected but with a lease proposal instead of owning the engine outright?

4. As for PR assurances.  Can we find out what NC Soft would want.  A start up?  A proven MMO company?  Community with proven industry leaders in it?


Lots of questions.  But I liked Iron Wolf's idea of talking to people who formally worked for NC Soft to get into their mindset and find out, maybe, what the stumbling blocks are in terms of dialogue at least.

From previous posts of yours there is a suggestion that they won't even talk about it.  That has to be frustrating.  At least if there's dialogue then we at least know what the stumbling blocks are.

What is a little odd, in the interviews I've seen, Matt Miller said he didn't know why the negotiations broke down.  Ok.  Why not?  And if he didn't.  Surely the people brokering the people who DID the negotiations DID know the reasons.  And perhaps we can focus a little fire power on getting them to speak 'off the record' about that?  Knowing the exact reasons for the deal folding from both points of view will provide clues on how to engage NC Soft from here on in.

Azrael.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Cobra Man on March 21, 2014, 04:51:40 PM
Quote
A company did offer to buy the IP and NCSoft was willing to sell it for very little. However they wanted to keep the game engine rights. The company decided the IP without the engine wasn't what they wanted.


This hasn't been verified yet and is at odds with what were originally told happened.

Ironwolf has said that his source has declined to be identified.

Basically it's just speculation right now.
Title: Re: So is COH finally dead?
Post by: Paragon Avenger on July 17, 2014, 03:05:57 AM
OK, City of Heroes is NOT dead.
They are just doing server maintenance.
Hey, you try backing-up a DBMS to a card punch.
It takes time. ;)

Always back-up your data.