Titan Network
Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: Fansy on November 10, 2012, 01:35:54 PM
-
Hail Heroes!
I bring news that may just be smoke blowing in the wind but I have been in contact with a certain Good Team supporter in Korea who has a connection that knows the most foul, and evil of all the Corporation in a dungeon sealed away deep in a twisted, dark Castle in the shadows keep!
What does this mean for us? For you? For me? For my goat?
..
Goat?
Belay that! I have news of importance! Yes, news, it is why you're reading still isn't it? No? You like me? Really? I did not prepare for this, I mean I'm blushing. No time to bewitch the Bard who sings now the praise that has come from this dark place. A source inside the source has spoken out yet asked to remain anonymous but fear not for I can give you my truth and word that this is quite credible but the decisions are not to fall on just NCSoft alone. Instead, the source explains that there truly ARE legal repercussions at the moment that are being dealt with behind the scenes and there is rumor that a possible ditch effort has been done so not to lose anymore money from quoted, '' current profitable projects currently in popular demand. '' This has also been backed by another source, a publisher, for a magazine I have inquired with. So what does this mean?
Well, now for the end yet meatiest morsel you can chew. There is, as the source says, a possibility that once CoH shuts down completely without further action by any Staff then the game IP can be sold at the lowest bid given that all legal ties are severed by its shut down. This also will take care of any >PARTNERS< who may have financial control or gain over the game to be severed as well for they will no longer receive or invest in a dead project. All contracts (unless elongated behind closed doors before the shut down occurred) will by law be no more and as the source explains NCsoft can freely move to do with the IP as they like. Without any attachments on the IP there is a high possibility, if it does sell, that the price will be reduced substantially for their interest in the game and title in and of itself is mostly depleted except by enthusiasts who are on their last leg in the company, sad to report, or are ready to retire. A lot of effort from next generation studios are now being bought into as the era of old games are being left as they were without any care for what is coming next, the source boasted, will more than likely sway customers in swaths as the new technology implemented will take gaming to and beyond the next level. What does this mean for us, Good Team? I haven't the slightest.
Finally we have come to the end of news for there is none left to sing. I have done the best I could from the moment I arrived and will do what I can until the last sun sets. You truly are all Heroes, and this is what you inspired me to do.
Forever a song,
Fansy The Famous Bard
-
Fancy, you sing a note of hope. I just wished you could back it up with proof we could hear with our own ears, that it is *not* a stinger just to get us to shut up before it's too late, at any rate, we shall continue the fight. Labor can only bear reward, if we harm NCSoft in this fight, we will soothe them later.
Thank you for the piece of partition, we'll play around it.
-
(Posting the same response I left at the official boards for this)
O... kay?
Not sure I want to believe or get my hopes up.
But if I'm parsing this right, what you're saying is that City of Heroes was shutdown the way it was partially to keep it OUT of the hands of Nexon?
Someone in NCSoft WANTS the IP and server code to go "free" into the wild? Or to allow another company to buy it at firesale prices?
I find that kind of hard to believe that they would risk the bad press they've been getting just to allow that to happen.
On the other hand though - if there's some kind of factional infighting going on... and the company is NOT speaking with one voice... Well. That's something I suspected myself for some time. But I thought it no longer mattered even if it were true.
If there is a plausible answer to one simple question then I -might- get my hopes up.
That question is - who benefits from this? To expand on that idea - HOW do they benefit?
Like the old saying goes - "follow the money". So far I'm not sure I see the trail here...
-
You, Good Teamer!
You CAN have it before your eyes yourself, good lad as you are! You just have to do a little research and maybe have a helpful friend to sing you open a path.
Search out those in the Headquarters, knock on enough doors, send out too many emails, and beg for assistance long enough and you'll find that someone will of heard of the cause and will courteous to oblige in whatever manner they can. I cannot just give out the names of those who have offered it against their will but I would highly suggest sending out an email to every employee or former employee you can get your hands on. The closer to Korea or in Korean interests you go the nearer you become to your final treasure. I wouldn't come here to spread false rumor or to plague the ears with an ill wise tale. I can only phrase what was given to me and sing true to its words back to you.
It's up to you to do the rest, and see where and if what I am told, a conduit for their message, can be got some truth out of or not. I will not know for sure, just like you, until the time comes. But any rays of hope I can shed I will. To show that I have not been dodgy just because the situation looks bleak.
You have more power than you're executing or maybe you've just not had the time. It's up to you tho to really put action to words, and I wish you the best in this. I will do what I can on my end but even with a thousand letters sent all I have got is two replies, subtle as they write but stern is the message. In either case, do not give in.
To my song I go!
-
Okay, my high grade in Lyrical was C-, but if I'm reading this correctly -
There is some behind-the-scenes legal wrangling that keeps NCsoft from doing anything with CoH until the game shuts down. Assuming that's true, and if it turns out that they've kept silent for unavoidable reasons, that would mean that we'd owe them an apology afterwards. That's still a bit if, though.
There's also a faction conflict between elements who want to push forward technologically and ditch old franchises, and those who prefer to keep those franchises going. The latter are operating from a significantly weaker position, making the conflict more or less a curbstomp. That's fine with me, assuming CoH gets to keep living under a different owner. Also, my sympathy goes to the individuals within NCsoft who did stick up for us.
And finally, once the December 1st rolls over and the aforementioned legal ties are untied, NCsoft might, but also might not open the franchise for purchase.
So I have the basics right?
Oh, and by the way, thanks for the info, Fansy. Much appreciated.
-
That was my read, as well. Also, this is why I prefer watching Shakespeare to reading him. :)
-
However, if I'm reading this right (which I admittedly may not be), it sounds like they're planning on selling the IP, not the game itself.
In any event, thanks for the info, Fansy.
-
It kind of makes sense that once the game is 'closed,' that it would sell for cheaper, since it isn't in the market place after that point.
I just hope who ever picks up the IP, if anyone, will do something good with it.
And I hope to God that person isn't SOE or some crap company like EA. Or Perfect World... Or Gamers First... You know, stuff like that.
Best of luck to our efforts!
-
Far as I'm concerned, everything other than EA is fine with me. SOE keeps their games running as long as they can, Perfect World hasn't wrecked Cryptic yet, never heard of Gamers First...
But yeah, selling to EA would essentially be a Pet Cemetary scenario.
-
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing, Fansy, Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing to us :D
Thanks for your efforts!
-
That question is - who benefits from this? To expand on that idea - HOW do they benefit?
Like the old saying goes - "follow the money". So far I'm not sure I see the trail here...
Well, we're dealing with people here, and money is not the only motivation people have. If someone from the run old games factions wants to keep the game out of Nexon's hands so someone better can deal with it well.....that's their motivation. They want someone who would care for the game.
Nexon acquires a lot of decent/interesting games somehow, but they run them not so great. Their customer service is really shitty (it can take a week or two to get a ticket answered), as one example. No idea how they treat their developers, but they seem to cut corners in other areas as much as they can.
-
Not to doubt the bard, for who am I to doubt? But we really have heard this before.
If this turns out to be true, then all praise to those who made it happen and the bringer of the good news. If not...
My personality is a 50/50 split between optimism and pessimism. Right now, on this subject, its a bit more 30/70.
-
A source inside the source has spoken out yet asked to remain anonymous but fear not for I can give you my truth and word that this is quite credible but the decisions are not to fall on just NCSoft alone.
An anonymous source that Fansy believes is credible says that NCsoft are not the sole decision makers in closing City of Heroes. Or at least, the responsibility is not theirs alone, but may have been forced on them somehow.
Instead, the source explains that there truly ARE legal repercussions at the moment that are being dealt with behind the scenes and there is rumor that a possible ditch effort has been done so not to lose anymore money from quoted, '' current profitable projects currently in popular demand. '' This has also been backed by another source, a publisher, for a magazine I have inquired with. So what does this mean?
There are some legal wranglings ongoing that can't be spoken of whilst they are ongoing? The source says there is a rumour that there is a possible effort to ditch something (Paragon, City of Heroes?) so as not to lose any further money.
This sounds rather like a possible appeal against an earlier ruling by Marvel, or some other lawsuit, might have resulted in NCsoft being found to have infringed someone's copyrights or otherwise now be in a position where they need to shut down to prevent further additions to damages/claims. It certainly sounds as if the closure is to prevent further damages that NCsoft will be liable to pay for. But bear in mind that this is my speculation on a rumour of a possible effort reported as hearsay by an anonymous source
There is, as the source says, a possibility that once CoH shuts down completely without further action by any Staff then the game IP can be sold at the lowest bid given that all legal ties are severed by its shut down. This also will take care of any >PARTNERS< who may have financial control or gain over the game to be severed as well for they will no longer receive or invest in a dead project. All contracts (unless elongated behind closed doors before the shut down occurred) will by law be no more and as the source explains NCsoft can freely move to do with the IP as they like.
Since contracts for a subsidiary company often die with that legally separated subdivision, and do not transfer upwards to a parent company, once Paragon Studios, or some higher level of individual sub-company, are gone and exist no more as legal entities, the IP could be sold cheaply.
Without any attachments on the IP there is a high possibility, if it does sell, that the price will be reduced substantially for their interest in the game and title in and of itself is mostly depleted except by enthusiasts who are on their last leg in the company, sad to report, or are ready to retire. A lot of effort from next generation studios are now being bought into as the era of old games are being left as they were without any care for what is coming next, the source boasted, will more than likely sway customers in swaths as the new technology implemented will take gaming to and beyond the next level. What does this mean for us, Good Team? I haven't the slightest.
The 'change/shift in focus' at NCsoft, as in many other studios at the moment is the fundamental shift hinted at across the industry.
Subscription based MMOs are believed to have had their day, and the games companies are finally coming to believe, as we have always surmised, that the success of WoW is an anomaly that is a freak occurrence that none will equal, or even come close to. Finally they see that WoW is the exception, not the rule, and that the rule for MMO games is a lot less sparkly, and the market a lot more competitive, once you eliminate the exception from the average expectations. That does not mean they won't have high expectations for GW2 or Blade and Soul, but it would probably mean those are the last classic MMOs the company will invest in. They believe GW2 and Blade and Soul can still do well today - just not in the future.
Current shifts in gaming are heavily leaning towards mobile gaming, especially when a tablet or iPad now has about as much connectivity as any gaming console, and we are increasingly closing on the point where the smartphones will be able to connect with smart TVs to display HD quality graphics on a large screen.
Given the strength and focus of Nexon in the mobile and java-game technology, and that so many of their recent moves have been strengthening that position, one can surmise that the shift in focus is in tht direction, as is not about how mobile gaming is today, but rather is a shift now to dominate the mobile gaming of tomorrow with 4G, smartphones with 1080p graphics, able to display to large screens.
-
Can't keep a good hero--or bard--down.
Keep fighting, heroes. Stand tall. We are titans. We have already done the impossible. All we have to do is keep doing it for a little longer. I know we can muster the strength, courage, and fortitude.
Pop a wakie, grab a breakie, and burn a green and a blue. Time to get back in this fight.
-
"It's up to you to do the rest... You have more power than you're executing or maybe you've just not had the time. It's up to you though to really put action to words, and I wish you the best in this."
Oh, I'm not good at this at all... :: ahem! ::
Ooookay... surely not my forte. Your puzzle leads to perplexity.
From you, good bard, we need a course to set, a sail to sail, a sextant to raise, our ship to steer! Else our power shall outwear the time and our best lie executed.
Oh proud dream, oh noble Fansy, how may we verb our word?
-
Colette, the part you quoted was in answer specifically to Atlantea's post. It is saying that while Fansy can't divulge sources, you can surely put in the same time and effort in mailing people to get to the same place.
In the original post there is no suggested action. It is purely informational, though, of course, with anonymous sources, the information is only worth what weight you give it. Not because Fansy is insincere or deceptive, but because whoever told Fansy this isn't prepared to put their name to it, and could be lying to Fansy.
The message itself says that things are happening, and that it all about a legal matter.
What I say is that while this may or may not be reason for hope, it does not change our course of action at all. We will still benefit from ensuring there is pressure on NCsoft to release the IP of CoH. However, if the legal wrangling is in any way about the code, then the IP alone may not include code, and thus be effectively worthless.
Until someone puts a name and facts to this, we stay our course, and keep the pressure on NCsoft. Our example to other players of other MMOs will always be valid and helpful, regardless of whether we win or lose this particular battle.
-
So reading this in my limited ability to translate Bardic - i read Steam or Good Old games may be buying this.
A company who scarfs up older games is Steam. It may well be tied to the Marvel/Cryptic lawsuit that went through way back when and that since Marvel is due to release their game soon some sort of issue may have been tied to it that a complete shutdown/sell off would rectify.
Seems possible and as I posted a while back it may do us a favor in the long run having the game shutdown for a short while to lower the price. Many rumors swirl and happily so as the game is not going quietly into that long night.
-
Here's a bit of speculation:
What if the supposed legal wrangling has nothing to do with CoH?
What if the (unwitting) target of this action was in fact Paragon Studios, and CoH was a mere bystander?
We know that much of Paragon Studios was engaged in work on the 'Secrit Projekt'.
Perhaps the Sekrit Projekt ran into legal quagmire, and the only effective way out of that mess was to shut down the Studio?
If a Projekt had to be killed, but it had to be done in such a way that did not violate certain conracts, etc., it might have been most effective to kill the entire Studio, in an effort to distract from true motivations...
Granted, I'm theorizing on something here with little to no information, but it might actually explain something.
-
This is extremely happy news. I can only hope it is true. Thanks Fansy, I'll be anxious to see what plays out.
-
Just hold on to your hopes of someone buying, Fansy just let out that it's possible new opportunities open after the game closes, as NCSoft is also working against by a third party, and has to close the game to close any contract with them and sell the IP more freely. There is no rumor of a buyer, just a potential future hypothetic selling willingness from NCSoft.
They are trying to sever contracts, so we should keep it a secret or else those contract will be tempted to try to modify it to keep their coins even if the game closes.
I think this is Plan B, where Plan A is to convince NCSoft to not close City or least keep it going somewhere along with the accounts. If they close, we enter in the B category, where we can still play City, just back from zero. We didn't save all we could. Especially not the studio, but that was too quick to do that, they already fled all over the place and managed to find a new job, so this quickly became a plan without letter (at least now).
-
All right so, in terms of other publishers, who would be in OUR best interest to get the attention of if this comes to pass?
-
All right so, in terms of other publishers, who would be in OUR best interest to get the attention of if this comes to pass?
Private investors. I don't want to have my eggs mixed in a backet of anybody, this game is its own beast, and we have private parties willing to do this investment, and volunteer souls ready to ready the game to sail under these new captains.
-
They are trying to sever contracts, so we should keep it a secret or else those contract will be tempted to try to modify it to keep their coins even if the game closes.
There are no secrets on the Internet. Now, we wait and see if it matters that this one is "out."
-
Private investors. I don't want to have my eggs mixed in a backet of anybody, this game is its own beast, and we have private parties willing to do this investment, and volunteer souls ready to ready the game to sail under these new captains.
Ideally someone who'd hire some of the former PS Devs to run and develop the game - and hopefully ones who aren't misguided and hoping to achieve another "WoW".
Though honestly I wouldn't mind if it was another publisher, as long as they get a devoted team to take care of it - which I believe most publishers do for their games.
-
Ideally someone who'd hire some of the former PS Devs to run and develop the game - and hopefully ones who aren't misguided and hoping to achieve another "WoW".
Though honestly I wouldn't mind if it was another publisher, as long as they get a devoted team to take care of it - which I believe most publishers do for their games.
An advertising budget wouldn't hurt either. That was something we sorely needed over all these years.
-
An advertising budget wouldn't hurt either. That was something we sorely needed over all these years.
They had budget, tried advertising, and it failed to prove worthwhile.
A single TV ad campaign (not one ad, but one campaign) just in the US alone can cost upwards of $100 million. Before you do it, you need to be sure then that it will be guaranteed to bring in $200 million as a result - which is more than CoH made in profit in its entire history.
Seriously, do you honestly think that paying for a month of ads to run during shows like Big Bang Theory and Arrow are going to do more in a month than 9 whole years of coverage in the gaming press, word of mouth, etc? Really? Or do you think they'd more likely be spending $100 million to make back $20 million in new subscriptions, losing $80million and closing the game within a year as losing money.
WoW can advertise on TV because it is a more accessible, sticky game. It is more mass-market, doesn't take much thought, etc. They know that they can afford to spend the equivalent of $30 per customer to attract them and make it back with profit. WoW is the market leader, the brand everyone knows, and is the exceptional winner in MMO that no other MMO has ever come close to. Noone knows quite why, or they'd have emulated it. Hundreds of companies have tried.
CoH tried various forms of advertising, starting with the most targeted and effective you'd think - games mags, comics, conventions, etc. Of those, only going to conventions wasn't a total waste where it cost more to advertise than they made back. Now if advertising in games stores, magazines and comics, where you are appealing only to actual fans of the genre or gaming didn't pay back its cheaper advertising costs, why would anyone try a TV ad campaign to a less qualified and targeted audience that costs more per eyeball to reach?
City found that its most effective means of advertising was word of mouth. So they incentivised you lot to share it more. They gave free coverage to fan sites to encourage people to make them. They printed fan-fiction, because that tends to make the writers tell their friends about getting published, even friends that don't play. And they gave free subscription time for each person you referred.
I really do wish people would stop with this myth that TV advertising is some magic wand. It is hideously expensive, poorly targeted, and only the most mass-market or high profit stuff can afford it. NCsoft experimented with various forms or marketing and found most were complete washouts. But giving high-paid devs time in their paid day to do streaming TV, work on youtube videos, attend conventions, and run competitions are all advertising.
-
Proper advertising is more than television. So why don't we nip that myth in the bud right now, hmm?
-
Proper advertising is more than television. So why don't we nip that myth in the bud right now, hmm?
That's the myth I'm on about.
Because NCsoft did the other forms of advertising (except for radio). They just didn't keep doing it when it cost more than it made. In fact, in the market they knew best of all (Korea), and had the most publicity and advertising know-how in, City of Heroes failed so badly it didn't even successfully launch.
-
Steam, that is who you want to buy this.
Seriously, they have the money and the love of gaming to run it properly. They have built in advertising and a huge budget.
-
from what ive read valve has already tried to put an offer out for coh, but was turned down or ignored (cant remember)
if what fansy is saying is whats happening then i still have hope that the game can still be saved
fansy is one of those poeple on this forum that i trust with rumor mill worthy information
-
It has been stated already that, on the off chance that NCSoft is doing this because they have no choice rather than because they truly are being unwise, we will owe them a big apology.
This is true.
When the game shuts down, we will need to ramp up our volume and pressure, one way or another. Should we discover we have unfairly targetted NCSoft, it will be time to show our true mettle as heroes (and villains who value the willingness of others to work with us and do as we demand): we will need to work hard to reverse any damage we have done and recast NCSoft more fairly.
Should we discover that they're exactly as we thought, we must stun them with our lack of silence.
Either way, our work is only just beginning. Do not, regardless of outcome, abandon this cause, LEAST of all if we get what we want out of it! Because then we will need to prove that working WITH us was worth it.
-
"It has been stated already that, on the off chance that NCSoft is doing this because they have no choice rather than because they truly are being unwise, we will owe them a big apology."
They could have taken steps to explain themselves even if they could not have disclosed anything that could have got them into trouble. If they would have been open and honest from the beginning, they wouldn't have the PR nightmare THEY created. You don't take a dump on your customers and expect them not to respond. We played nice and look where that got us... they still remain silent and the the game closes November 30th. We collectively put millions of dollars and thousands of hours of time into the game and all we get is a 'we are taking our ball and going home..CYA'. If people want to argue "its just business", fine, business' get boycotted all the time for shady tactics.
We certainly DO NOT owe NCSoft an apology...EVER! They are in business to serve us as customers, not the other way around.
-
"Colette, the part you quoted was in answer specifically to Atlantea's post."
Thank you, Ammon. I'm dreadful with Bardic.
"Until someone puts a name and facts to this, we stay our course, and keep the pressure on NCsoft."
Check and check! Our efforts appear to be bearing some fruit.
-
Between this on one side and Starburst on the other, my hope levels are higher than they've been in over a month. Not HIGH, but higher.
The quote that comes to mind, however, is "It's not the despair, I can handle the despair. It's the hope that's killing me."
I'll take it, though!
-
Indeed. It'd probably be easier to move on if these little glimmers of hope didn't keep surfacing.
But I don't want to move on. I don't have anywhere to move to.
So I'll keep following the glimmers of hope.
-
Well if its true then I'll be picking up more NCsoft goods. And of course writing Kim another letter.
-
You, Good Teamer!
You CAN have it before your eyes yourself, good lad as you are! You just have to do a little research and maybe have a helpful friend to sing you open a path.
Search out those in the Headquarters, knock on enough doors, send out too many emails, and beg for assistance long enough and you'll find that someone will of heard of the cause and will courteous to oblige in whatever manner they can. I cannot just give out the names of those who have offered it against their will but I would highly suggest sending out an email to every employee or former employee you can get your hands on. The closer to Korea or in Korean interests you go the nearer you become to your final treasure. I wouldn't come here to spread false rumor or to plague the ears with an ill wise tale. I can only phrase what was given to me and sing true to its words back to you.
It's up to you to do the rest, and see where and if what I am told, a conduit for their message, can be got some truth out of or not. I will not know for sure, just like you, until the time comes. But any rays of hope I can shed I will. To show that I have not been dodgy just because the situation looks bleak.
You have more power than you're executing or maybe you've just not had the time. It's up to you tho to really put action to words, and I wish you the best in this. I will do what I can on my end but even with a thousand letters sent all I have got is two replies, subtle as they write but stern is the message. In either case, do not give in.
To my song I go!
First, I'm very glad Fansy posted here (saves me copying from the CoH Official Forums) and second, glad some here have had opportunity to comment. I never heard of Fansy before this post, but I take it some on Titan Network know who this is and that there is reason to believe this Fabulous Tale. (I wasn't sure of this not a being a hoax/prank, or simply bad information though whimsically delivered a la Bard.) Provided it's legit (my hope) then Fansy's advice that we email every employee of NCSoft we can is clear. (Indeed, I'd rather thought we'd done so, but apparently not enough or as effectively as we'd hoped.) As to having "more power than [we're] executing" and "really put action to words" is too vague for me--but I hope not for TonyV and the other Titans.
Here's a link to Fansy's thread on the official forums wherein Fansy responds to some skepticsim about the OP: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=298384&highlight=fansy (you'll be wanting Page 2 of this thread most likely.)
I'm too tired and with other irons in the fire to attempt to glean more from Fansy's fanciful posts. Looking forward to reading more about this tomorrow and hoping for some clear direction after the SMOFs have had opportunity to digest this Tale and co-ordinate our next efforts.
Re: Apologizing to NCSoft. When the time is right, I'm happy to (assuming I've done or said anything for which apology is due) but presently I feel my criticism of how the matter of Sunsetting CoH was handled and how Customer Relations to we soon-to-be-former customers was handled remains valid.
Additionally, I thought I read earlier that Steam offered NCSoft US$3 million for the IP but said offer was rejected (assuming it was even heard) but Steam's offer (if true) was prior to the 11/30 sunset date and End of Contracts.
(Damn, but I find myself hoping Fansy is "War Witch" Bianco or "Positron" Miller.)
Thanks again for the help and the hope, Fansy! (And grrrrrrr, most cruel and unfunny if this is a hoax!)
-
If they sell the CoH IP, that doesn't give them instant redemption.
Remember, they've shut down other games and still hoard those IPs. If they let those go too... perhaps their heads aren't quite as far shoved up their butts after all.
On the theory of closure being a way to get rid of legal issues tied to CoH:
Where is the logic in taking a damaging hit to reputation and finances from losing customers, potential customers and stockholders just to skirt some legal trouble? Was the Marvel issue something with worse consequences?
Or is that some kind of joke about NCSoft being logical that went over my head?
-
NCsoft already had the rep of being the MMO killer and sitting on the IPs.
If they done this for legal reasons well... that seems odd. More one offer been made for the IP and been turned down as far as we know. Okay for legal reasons you turn down a Good offer so you can sell it later with less red tape for less? I'm sure some business wise person could think of things to make it fit. But I'm thinking why would there be so much legal issues over an IP that's 8+ years old.
-
To the Famous bard, I was down had about given up. I came on a late night whim being very tired even a possibility of hope is better than nothing. Thank you good sir this is enough to make me get back off the ground hit the port medivac and get back into the fight even for a little bit longer. That makes this message alone worth it. I pass out but feeling little better.
/em Hold torch
-
As I understand it, if I do, it's that various contracts (which? whose? I dont know) expire on 11/30/12 or 12/1/12 when City of Heroes is officially closed by NCSoft and it's the expiration/conclusion of these contracts that will then free NCSoft to make deals in a manner more to the liking of the customer base. Whether this is true, I can't say but I believe that is Fansy's claim--which at the moment is supported only by Fansy's claim to anonymous but legit sources.
I hope it's true. I've reviewed all of Fansy's Official CoH forum posts that I could find, and think Fansy is on the level and NOT perpetrating a hoax. That doesn't mean Fansy is right or even if right that things will play out as we hope; however, Fansy is telling us rather directly despite the flowery bard-speech that our efforts ARE making a difference, and that I infer (i hope correctly) that some people inside NCSoft (likely a minority position) take our view: that NCSoft is throwing away revenues (us/customers) and profit (sale of the IP) under the current course of action. For all I know some NCSoft employees may feel a loyalty towards us and City of Heroes (I assume their mission and vision statements are part of NCSoft corporate culture and not merely pretty words meaning nothing.) Why NCSoft closed Tabula Rasa and kept the IP and the IP of other MMO's it's closed rather than selling them, I don't know. As a relative newcomer, most of what I think I know about this has come from reading the forums (Titan and official CoH).
Whether NCSoft misjudged as badly as Coca-Cola did when discontinuing old "Classic" Coke in favor of New Coke/Coke II in 1985 has yet to be seen: http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/heritage/cokelore_newcoke.html or if you prefer the wikipedia version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke Note: I posted about this on the official forums where it was noted by another that CoH to NCSoft is more analagous to Surge (another soda pop made by Coca-Cola) which was also discontinued and fans of Surge failed to get Coca-Cola to bring back Surge, whereas the company's reaction to the customer response to New Coke was to bring back Coke Classic in a hurry. If Fansy is right, we need to increase the volume, or rather make certain we're getting our message out in the right way to the right people.
-
What I'm suggesting caution about, is not Fansy himself, it is his source that can be hoaxing him, and in turn, us all. If it's an employee of NCSoft, and NCSoft tries to minimise our noise, it could be a course of action. All in all we don't have anything to loose in keeping up the volume, until this turns out to be true or false. To maximise our chances.
-
Hail!
I wish to clarify on voice and note that this may be the most elaborate cloak and veil if one were to sneak a NCsoft Korean email suffix and return it to me with words of their own account to what in my eyes is possible. Direct, sharpened were their words and left poor Fansy quite the task of dancing through pointy mesh but it wasn't in vain for all was sang to the Titan Network and Official Forums again.
I cannot say myself that it is one hundred percent for the word of a supporter no matter how broad must be narrowed when seeing its location and from whence it came. It's true that the source is viably credible of its origin BUT does that mean the message given is one to be hopeful for? Hence for ifs, possibles, and could. I never say Will, Shall, Is in works for that would be beyond my sight, I can just set to your eyes what my eyes have read and through this message I also began to dread that everyone's tongue and fingers will silence. Do not, Good Sir and Miss, stop your advance for it is indeed making an impact. The magazine source made that very clear for there are sources inside and out of NCsoft who are answering, vaguely, to some article writers who have submitted questions but yield too little to write a response of and instead have a morsel, belay that, a crumb to update an article with. However, it IS small that makes the difference for where there was complete silence there is now a trickling of information. How soon before our supporter is found and baited? None the wiser. Let us hope that those in the know will answer to emails sent and not just by myself for we have had quite the many current and in light celebrities take to their keyboard swords and jabbed into the darkness. In replies short of breath one must do what they can to spread the message in a way that does not harm the source who may be just the only one willing to risk.
And that is that. See between the lines, hear what you wish, know what you must, but never lay still and keep to your word. Keep on fighting my friends, for you are Good Team Heroes and this is just what you do!
Sand Giants!
Fansy the Famous Bard
-
Do you happen to have any advice as who/where to mail, good Bard?
The CoH related email Tony posted?
-
Hear Hear !
Knowing is better than ignoring. We'll try not to hit any supporter we have in NCSoft, I just wanted to give other bells sounds so that everybody can see the whole possible artists at work. But the kind you brought was all too needed Fansy, and you have the courage to stand against my warnings and for that you earn your troubadour place. Just as we need people who see good everywhere, evil can be anywhere. And any hope you bring should be fuel for us rather than our rest. Every post of the ship must be manned and active, even if the vigil reports land in sight.
Indeed as you say, keep it up, we are winning, but we haven't won yet.
-
Hail!
I wish to clarify on voice and note that this may be the most elaborate cloak and veil if one were to sneak a NCsoft Korean email suffix and return it to me with words of their own account to what in my eyes is possible. Direct, sharpened were their words and left poor Fansy quite the task of dancing through pointy mesh but it wasn't in vain for all was sang to the Titan Network and Official Forums again.
I cannot say myself that it is one hundred percent for the word of a supporter no matter how broad must be narrowed when seeing its location and from whence it came. It's true that the source is viably credible of its origin BUT does that mean the message given is one to be hopeful for? Hence for ifs, possibles, and could. I never say Will, Shall, Is in works for that would be beyond my sight, I can just set to your eyes what my eyes have read and through this message I also began to dread that everyone's tongue and fingers will silence. Do not, Good Sir and Miss, stop your advance for it is indeed making an impact. The magazine source made that very clear for there are sources inside and out of NCsoft who are answering, vaguely, to some article writers who have submitted questions but yield too little to write a response of and instead have a morsel, belay that, a crumb to update an article with. However, it IS small that makes the difference for where there was complete silence there is now a trickling of information. How soon before our supporter is found and baited? None the wiser. Let us hope that those in the know will answer to emails sent and not just by myself for we have had quite the many current and in light celebrities take to their keyboard swords and jabbed into the darkness. In replies short of breath one must do what they can to spread the message in a way that does not harm the source who may be just the only one willing to risk.
And that is that. See between the lines, hear what you wish, know what you must, but never lay still and keep to your word. Keep on fighting my friends, for you are Good Team Heroes and this is just what you do!
Sand Giants!
Fansy the Famous Bard
Thank you, Fansy, for clarifying. I for one do NOT want to put your source at risk. He or she already took a risk communicating what they did which you've relayed to us. I thought your words were clear: keep writing EVERYONE at NCSoft, especially NCSoft Headquarters. Myself, I want a more specific game plan than that. We've already written, we've sent capes and masks. Maybe we need to do more of the same, or perhaps we need to refine our approach(es). But perhaps you, dear Fansy, could communicate privately with TonyV, Victoria Victrix or whomever else can be trusted with confidential information so we can refine our efforts to best effect.
-
It's always nice to think that CoH can be saved somehow even if it's just a pipe dream. But as I've not seen a single red-name on the official boards mention this, it is nothing more than a rumor and I will wait for some official word before believing it. Better to be safe than sorry, especially since all other similar rumors (SOE is buying CoH....the super-secret project lives on and is releasing in July 2013....Trion Worlds offered 80 million for CoH and was turned down....) have turned out to be false.
Dreaming is fun, but people don't need to have their hopes raised falsely any more times than has already been done.
-
Red names will not be commenting on it.
The game as being run by NCSoft will cease at 11:59:59 November 30th.
However what Fansy is pointing out is a credible source has explained that some issues with contracts were voided by the actual CLOSING of the game. A transfer as Cryptic did with NCSoft would extend the effects of the contracts.
Closing the game and taking it offline voids those. Hope is never false, I would say instead despair is the false prophet and if you become a slave to "What IF" you are under the whip of a harsh master. In his book Waylander, the late David Gemmel pointed out that you can live your life locked into never supporting or helping anyone. You can never truly live while you ponder the many WHAT IFS.
Instead as the bible notes (well read pagan here) "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."
So you can be the person who looks back fondly at what could have been or you can be the person who looks ahead at WHAT MIGHT BE!
-
However what Fansy is pointing out is a credible source has explained ....
Um, where is this "credible source?" Where is the link? Where is the official anything? ;)
Well, at least this one isn't naming names, so that people from past false rumors like John Smedley have to actually stop what they're doing running their own companies like SOE and twitter about said rumor being false, lol....
We'll see. But I don't see anything "credible" whatsoever so far. Just maybe...."gullible."
-
"Do not, Good Sir and Miss, stop your advance for it is indeed making an impact. ...never lay still and keep to your word."
In sum, keep doing what we're doing: calling NCSoft on their deceit, pandering, and contempt for their customers while praising CoH and bewailing its fate. The just merits of our grievance is noted inside the walls of NCSoft, by their stockholders and by the greater gaming industry. Got it.
Also, "cancelling" the game voids certain entangling contracts and makes CoH more viable as a purchased property to some other developer, one more familiar with our market and more qualified to continue development, or even - dare we dream? - to continue work on CoH 2. Thank you for the ray of hope.
-
Curiouser and curiouser, the rabbit hole deepens!
The Famous Bard has given us a most intriguing snippet here, one that fills some infuriating gaps...yet it also creates new gaps of its own.
Legal issues and ties binding to the CoH IP would indeed explain official corporate silence, but as NCsoft's record with communication is chequered at best, such silence itself should not be taken as a sign of goodwill, ill will, or indeed any other flavour of will, it simply...is.
As always, I'm driven to regard the timing of CoH's closure as the key to this riddle. Vis a vis the game's financial history, there was no more reason to close CoH a year ago, or 2 years ago, than there was on August 31st. So it's logical to look instead for any change at NCsoft which might explain a desire to change the administration of CoH.
And change aplenty there's been this year, in the shape of NCsoft CEO Kim selling 2/3 of his personal stock at below market price to biggest rival Nexon. Somewhere in that shift of power is the "realignment of focus" we seek.
So, logic time -
1. Why not simply transfer CoH to Nexon to run without closing it?
Well, if there's a legal ball and chain attached to CoH, then transferring lock, stock and barrel might be an utter legal minefield. Closing the game would likely break legal bonds, making a transfer easier.
2. Okay, so what's with that $8 million price tag for the IP?
If NCsoft wanted Nexon to have the IP, it would be logical to overprice it to chase buyers away. The beauty of this is for them is that for all we know, the transfer of the IP for $8 million might already have been part of the share deal between Kim and Nexon. He did sell his shares at below market value after all...perhaps the IP sale was part of it, but would only be officially confirmed later when no-one but Nexon wanted to stump up the $8 million asking price.
But this brings us to the next point -
3. Would Nexon even want the IP at all?
Ah, now here's the new gap in the puzzle. Keeping CoH running would probably have meant Nexon would ultimately end up running it, because from what I can tell, NCsoft seems to favour retreating to within Korean borders, while Nexon is blustering about building its profile in the US. With the two in partnership, the conclusion there is obvious. But what if Nexon didn't want to run it? What if, in fact, part of the deal between Nexon and NCsoft IS the closure of CoH because Nexon didn't want to be dumped with legal hassles, and perhaps also isn't even interested in developing a new, legally unbound version of CoH2 that would take several years to see the light of day anyway?
Nexon after all prefer to market games developed by others - and in this case, of the two companies, NCsoft is the developer with the proven track record. It's possible that Nexon could buy the IP from NCsoft and then effectively give it back by allowing NCsoft to develop a CoH2...but given that GW2 likely benefitted from keeping GW ticking over, the logic there would surely have been to keep CoH ticking over too - unless these mysterious 'legal ties' meant closing CoH and making CoH2 years later was easier than keeping old CoH ticking over...which would seem rather bizarre.
So if Nexon didn't want to run CoH, and NCsoft don't want to use the IP (remember this quote from Lincoln Davies, NCsoft West director of corporate communications : "The continued support of the franchise no longer fits with our long-term goals for the company." ) then the IP would indeed be up for grabs come December 1st.
Now all we're left with in that scenario is the logic behind that puzzling $8 million price tag on the IP. With nothing to lose from delaying the sale of the IP til closure was certain anyway, perhaps this might be simply to make sure any legal issues die with the game's closure, ensuring no trailing legal stingers could come back to haunt NCsoft later.
*sigh*
The waters are still muddy though. I guess we just have to wait and see if they settle a bit come Dec 1st and we might finally be able to see something clear in there :-\
-
I can't help but think that this is just another ploy by NCSoft to get us to quiet down and stop trashing them. "The game HAS to close so that we can sell it. Just quiet down and let us close it." I think it's a good possibility Fansy is being played. The PR nightmare has finally gotten bad enough that they have to be smart about it. Pick someone the community trusts, but isn't directly involved enough in the efforts to really be in the know, and lie to them. Maybe I'm just cynical, but it sounds like something they or their PR firm would do. Sounds like they are trying to make US blink. They want us to question our NCSoft hate and portray themselves as the little guy with the big bad over their shoulders making them shut down the game. They want some people to support the closure, since supposedly that's the only way they can sell the IP. It just sounds to me they are trying to split our focus and make us reconsider things long enough to minimize the damage we are doing and get the game shut down. Hopefully we'll be quiet after, because if it is closed, they're trying to sell it right? They are hoping we will leave then alone and wait until we figure out they aren't selling anything, and by then it will be too late. I'm a cynic.
I do think however, this means that we are making enough noise that they recognize we are damaging them and have ceased to treat us like spoiled children, and are treating us like opponents. Unfortunately they seem to still think we are pretty foolish.
-
We will never know till all is said and done. But even the possibility that the game could be re-opened later, or (and possibly even more exciting) the possibility that the "next generation" of superhero MMORPG's could be based on City of Heroes IP is, well, just thrilling. Here's hoping.
Regardless, whether this is true or not doesn't change our day-to-day mission and activities. Keep on keeping on.
Proud of this community. This game really has attracted awesome people and brought out the best in them.
-
We will never know till all is said and done. But even the possibility that the game could be re-opened later, or (and possibly even more exciting) the possibility that the "next generation" of superhero MMORPG's could be based on City of Heroes IP is, well, just thrilling. Here's hoping.
Regardless, whether this is true or not doesn't change our day-to-day mission and activities. Keep on keeping on.
Proud of this community. This game really has attracted awesome people and brought out the best in them.
Couldn't have said it better. Don't lose hope, don't give up.
-
I can't help but think that this is just another ploy by NCSoft to get us to quiet down and stop trashing them. "The game HAS to close so that we can sell it. Just quiet down and let us close it." I think it's a good possibility Fansy is being played. The PR nightmare has finally gotten bad enough that they have to be smart about it. Pick someone the community trusts, but isn't directly involved enough in the efforts to really be in the know, and lie to them. Maybe I'm just cynical, but it sounds like something they or their PR firm would do. Sounds like they are trying to make US blink. They want us to question our NCSoft hate and portray themselves as the little guy with the big bad over their shoulders making them shut down the game. They want some people to support the closure, since supposedly that's the only way they can sell the IP. It just sounds to me they are trying to split our focus and make us reconsider things long enough to minimize the damage we are doing and get the game shut down. Hopefully we'll be quiet after, because if it is closed, they're trying to sell it right? They are hoping we will leave then alone and wait until we figure out they aren't selling anything, and by then it will be too late. I'm a cynic.
I do think however, this means that we are making enough noise that they recognize we are damaging them and have ceased to treat us like spoiled children, and are treating us like opponents. Unfortunately they seem to still think we are pretty foolish.
^this^
Until NCSoft actually confirms a sale, I would take all rumors such as this with a grain of salt.
-
I would say that Fansy is almost certainly being played. There is only one tiny possibility that he might not be, and it's something I have mentioned before:
This might all be about NCSoft keeping ownership of player accounts.
If they want to sell the game at all, they want to sell it without giving up player information - meaning all data and characters would be lost, and we'd all have to start over. That's only slightly more palatable after CoH has been shut down and erased. But it also means CoH will lose so many veteran players who don't want to start over and dedicate full time to the game again, it will never be profitable again.
But I still say even that possibility is extremely unlikely. Most likely, NCSoft wants to keep the IP, because it increases the value of NCSoft if a buyout comes along.
Let me explain that bit a little more: The goal of a LOT of game companies right now is not to provide games, or entertainment, or anything really. Their goal is to develop at least one product that makes them valuable enough to get bought out, so the owner and/or CEO, and the board, can collect big fat bonuses when the company is liquidated for its assets.
I believe NCSoft is one of those companies. They are waiting for someone like Nexon to buy them out with a big fat cash deal to get ahold of their IP's, and liquidate the company, and fire everyone - and they believed a dead CoH increases those chances. And then the Kim family retires as billionaires, and lives happily ever after. That's most likely what this is about.
-
[...] This might all be about NCSoft keeping ownership of player accounts. [...]
You touched on a few things but yeah; there's just no way I see anyone touching the IP (the game really) without the player data that existed the day before the announcement. Not without spending more money on advertising than the game itself is even worth.
It would be ludicrous to think otherwise. The majority of long time veteran players have spent YEARS of money and time, building up personal fortunes.. the game economy, unlocks, leveling, store purchases, /friends, and more.
To start all over again is laughable. Would they really expect anyone with more than a years worth of veteran commitment to the game to believe it could never happen again?
Then comes the legal murkiness of selling the game assets (account data) to another party, since that would require at the bare minimum giving the user's email addresses out. They could theoretically sanitize everything else and just have user accounts tied to an email address and HOPE that by the time the game were to be live again, that the majority of players who return looking to re-activate their accounts on the new system (of the new owner) didn't change or lose access to their email address.
There will probably be more than a few who do, and the only way to validate who accounts used to belong to would be with providing information like the address or something of the account, or certain information you could recall about things in the account.
Any new owner would have to set up a long-term account retrieval/validation process for former players to arbitrate ownership.
With all of the development team scattered, it becomes increasingly unlikely CoH would ever return to its former glory ever again. Anyone seriously considering a bid for CoH would be thinking about all of this. Otherwise if it ever came back, it would be the ghost town it likely is now for the foreseeable future. You cant fund new content without the size of the player base we had before and expect the game to jump start itself back to life.
Returning the game with account data intact as part of the deal would at least give the game a fighting chance.
-
I believe NCSoft is one of those companies. They are waiting for someone like Nexon to buy them out with a big fat cash deal to get ahold of their IP's, and liquidate the company, and fire everyone - and they believed a dead CoH increases those chances. And then the Kim family retires as billionaires, and lives happily ever after.
I hate to argue with anyone's beliefs, but that particular belief falls lower in credibility than believing the world is flat, or believing that Santa and the Tooth Fairy have a secret deal to recycle gold teeth as jewellery.
The CEO of NCsoft sold less than 15% of his own personal shares in NCsoft (massively under-priced, we should note) to Nexon in June (just a few months ago) for just under $700 million ($688M). The timing perplexed some, as did the pricing because this was 40 percent lower than the high mark for those shares.
Get it? The CEO actually chose to turn down the opportunity to cash out for a billion dollars US, instead settling for just under 70% of a billion for just over half his shares.
http://nwww.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20120611001052
These are the two biggest gaming companies in Korea, and this partnership puts them well into the top 10 of gaming companies world wide. Get that? The merging of Nexon and NCsoft makes them able to sit at the same table as EA and the like. It actually prevents a sale to anyone with less resources than, say, Sony worldwide.
-
To start all over again is laughable. Would they really expect anyone with more than a years worth of veteran commitment to the game to believe it could never happen again?
Personally, if it meant that CoH would keep going, or even if it would increase its chance of continuing, I'd delete each and every alt I've made over the past six years without batting an eyelash.
That said... NCsoft's credibility is shot to pieces already, so even if they did, somehow, miraculously decide to restart the game, I'd be... skeptical at best.
-
I hate to argue with anyone's beliefs, but that particular belief falls lower in credibility than believing the world is flat, or believing that Santa and the Tooth Fairy have a secret deal to recycle gold teeth as jewellery.
In that case I guess we're fortunate to have you to tell us all exactly why NCSoft is doing this and exactly what they're going to do next. So tell us exactly what to do, because obviously we're all too stupid to figure it out until you speak.
When I first started posting here, this was a nice place. You notice how now there are long periods of silence from me, and I haven't said much about what I've been up to? It's because these forums have gradually become filled with a-holes who will tell me off, accuse me of stuff, and shoot me down every step of the way. And I've been stupidly trying to defend myself! What a waste of time that was.
If posting here is going to be a test of strength and to prove how tough I am and how much abuse I can take, then forget it, I have better and more fun things to do. You win, you're stronger and tougher than I am, and I don't deserve to speak. Instead I'll be quietly working over here on stuff none of you will know about.
-
In that case I guess we're fortunate to have you to tell us all exactly why NCSoft is doing this and exactly what they're going to do next. So tell us exactly what to do, because obviously we're all too stupid to figure it out until you speak.
When I first started posting here, this was a nice place. You notice how now there are long periods of silence from me, and I haven't said much about what I've been up to? It's because these forums have gradually become filled with a-holes who will tell me off, accuse me of stuff, and shoot me down every step of the way. And I've been stupidly trying to defend myself! What a waste of time that was.
If posting here is going to be a test of strength and to prove how tough I am and how much abuse I can take, then forget it, I have better and more fun things to do. You win, you're stronger and tougher than I am, and I don't deserve to speak. Instead I'll be quietly working over here on stuff none of you will know about.
To be fair, neither one of you knows anything (insofar as hard evidence about these assumptions). You might be right, or you might not be. It might be an educated guess, or it might not be. Unless you have inside information or are in a position at the company, saying things like..:
"I believe NCSoft is one of those companies. They are waiting for someone [...]"
sort of opens the doors for people to chastise you.
It would've been better worded by saying "I believe NCSoft is one of those companies. It is my opinion they are waiting for someone [...]"
I wouldn't take what anyone says here to heart personally. We're all different people from different backgrounds with different experiences and opinions of the entire situation. Some of us are angry and a lot of people are posting snarky or sharply tipped responses to other members here, when all anyone here probably wants is a community that is receptive or understanding at the very least.
Most of us are here for each other coming from the CoH community, so we shouldn't forget the importance of perspective taking when we're responding to people. Maybe they're just having a bad day.
I found your insight interesting to consider, and I enjoy reading people's theories, so please consider staying. The audience you're aiming for, I'm sure, will recognize the unicorns from the a-holes and everything in-between. I don't give much credibility into what I read from people who respond with ugly undertones to an otherwise polite informative or suggestion or whatever it is, so for what it's worth, you shouldn't feel the need to defend your arguments against such people.
-
Most of us are here for each other coming from the CoH community, so we shouldn't forget the importance of perspective taking when we're responding to people. Maybe they're just having a bad day.
Indeed - in many ways, ALL of us have been having one long, endless bad day since August 31st! Tempers will fray, nerves will get raw - but remember we're all on the same side here. No-one posting here is looking to get one up on anyone else, we're all the same. We're all hurting, all casting around for something to cling on to. If that wasn't so, well then we wouldn't be here at Titan in the first place, would we? :)
Some people may come across as confrontational sometimes, but I'm sure that's really just their own internal frustration at the situation showing through, and it shouldn't be taken as a personal attack.
It's always been internet wisdom to "never post angry", but when we've all been angry since September, it's kinda hard not to post angry sometimes. But if someone does, just shrug it off, ignore it, because it's a safe bet it's not aimed at anyone in particular.
Except NCsoft of course ;)
-
In that case I guess we're fortunate to have you to tell us all exactly why NCSoft is doing this and exactly what they're going to do next. So tell us exactly what to do, because obviously we're all too stupid to figure it out until you speak.
When I first started posting here, this was a nice place. You notice how now there are long periods of silence from me, and I haven't said much about what I've been up to? It's because these forums have gradually become filled with a-holes who will tell me off, accuse me of stuff, and shoot me down every step of the way. And I've been stupidly trying to defend myself! What a waste of time that was.
If posting here is going to be a test of strength and to prove how tough I am and how much abuse I can take, then forget it, I have better and more fun things to do. You win, you're stronger and tougher than I am, and I don't deserve to speak. Instead I'll be quietly working over here on stuff none of you will know about.
I'm really sorry you don't feel valued for telling us all about your belief that the guy who is already a multi-billionaire is doing this in a machiavellian plot to make himself a single-billionaire. I'm certain that in your head, spreading poorly informed misinformation is helpful, and should never be corrected with cold facts that are easily found on these very forums. We've known that the CEO sold his own shares for almost 700 million dollars for months.
Yes, my tone is sharp, because you hypocritically question the validity of the information Fansy presents, by feeding us absolute nonsense. I want you to not do that again.
You were wrong. Massively wrong in a way that is pretty funny, and deserves some teasing. Seriously, you told us that a guy who already is worth billions, and understold some of his holding for just under a billion, is doing this to maybe one day retire with a billion?! I'm not sugar-coating that for you, or telling you its a mistake anyone could have made to make you feel special. That's because I'm not here to cuddle. I'm here to fight effectively to save whatever I can of a game I love.
If you can help in that fight, I'll always be delighted to see you post. If you harm that, by posting misleading bullshit and then getting upset if anyone contradicts it, then you are an obstacle to the cause as much as any unicorn.
-
The reason I'm a little short, is that there is much to do, and this news, whether true or not, is ... disturbing.
My fear is that Fansy may have been told the truth. Because the first suspicion that springs to mind is that they are killing CoH so it can be sold to Nexon for a pitance. And I don't think Nexon owning the game would be a good thing. Not if some scheme like this was done to transfer the rights. I fear that not because it seems especially likely, but because on the chance it was true, we really could forget any chance to save anything or ever have any release on the IP. The whole thing would be a long term plan for a future joint project that no sensible offer would derail.
But for now this is speculation only.
We still need to be turning up the volume, gathering more support.
Instead I see fewer and fewer comments and likes made to posts covering the story and linked to in the 'Thank the Media' call to action thread. Seriously, speculation is wasting time we could be using to actually fight with. We still have so much to do. Sitting back to speculate when we haven't spead the latest links, made comments, liked and +1'd coverage etc is not something that will make us win a fight against the odds.
-
Quinch, Rae, Ammon and I are working on a "this is a crazy idea, but it just might work." I've been a bit out of the loop due to World Fantasy Convention in Toronto (we drove--Tulsa to Toronto and back again) but I am home now and we should have something in a few days for you to hit the ground running with.
Additionally, Larry is going to hit up a very interesting contact of his with a variation of the "crazy idea"--a plan he came up with today. So, hang in there, get ready to weather the dark days of December, and keep that pressure on NCSoft.
-
The reason I'm a little short, is that there is much to do, and this news, whether true or not, is ... disturbing.
My fear is that Fansy may have been told the truth. Because the first suspicion that springs to mind is that they are killing CoH so it can be sold to Nexon for a pitance. And I don't think Nexon owning the game would be a good thing. Not if some scheme like this was done to transfer the rights. I fear that not because it seems especially likely, but because on the chance it was true, we really could forget any chance to save anything or ever have any release on the IP. The whole thing would be a long term plan for a future joint project that no sensible offer would derail.
But for now this is speculation only.
We still need to be turning up the volume, gathering more support.
Instead I see fewer and fewer comments and likes made to posts covering the story and linked to in the 'Thank the Media' call to action thread. Seriously, speculation is wasting time we could be using to actually fight with. We still have so much to do. Sitting back to speculate when we haven't spead the latest links, made comments, liked and +1'd coverage etc is not something that will make us win a fight against the odds.
OK, if it is all true and NC's plan all along has been for Nexon to buy up CoH cheap, is that so bad? I mean it sounds underhanded and questionable, I don't know nearly enough if that is a legal loophole to avoid whatever it is (if there really is anything) that NCSoft has been avoiding. I've never played a Nexon game, though it's been mentioned on the forum quite a bit that they have poor customer service, I haven't heard anything else bad about them. If CoH shuts down, Nexon cuts a deal with NCSoft to buy up the game and turns it back on in the new year, wouldn't that be a win for us?
But yeah, you are right this is all speculation. However majority of us aren't in the loop, and I just keep myself busy with speculative conspiracy theories while asking my facebook friends who don't even know what an MMO is to sign the petition and look at articles.
-
If you can help in that fight, I'll always be delighted to see you post. If you harm that, by posting misleading bullshit and then getting upset if anyone contradicts it, then you are an obstacle to the cause as much as any unicorn.
And this is why I'm sick of this forum. I never considered myself an important member of Titan Networks, I only stopped by to help Tony with NCSoft. I notified everyone of my plans here out of courtesy in case someone had overlapping goals, or something to help or contribute.
What I got out of it - admittedly among some nicer posts - were accusations of trying to hijack the entire thing, getting pelted with straw-man arguments because I spelled a word or name wrong, and now I get called a unicorn.
[snippy snip! ~Agge]
You win. The forum is yours.
-
Quinch, Rae, Ammon and I are working on a "this is a crazy idea, but it just might work." I've been a bit out of the loop due to World Fantasy Convention in Toronto (we drove--Tulsa to Toronto and back again) but I am home now and we should have something in a few days for you to hit the ground running with.
Additionally, Larry is going to hit up a very interesting contact of his with a variation of the "crazy idea"--a plan he came up with today. So, hang in there, get ready to weather the dark days of December, and keep that pressure on NCSoft.
Man! And, here, didn't get you guys anything! :)
-
*puts mod hat on*
Ammon, pull it back. Nothing TheManga posted deserved the vitriol you used.
TheManga, you're welcome back anytime.
*takes mod hat back off*
-
OK, if it is all true and NC's plan all along has been for Nexon to buy up CoH cheap, is that so bad? I mean it sounds underhanded and questionable, I don't know nearly enough if that is a legal loophole to avoid whatever it is (if there really is anything) that NCSoft has been avoiding.
The reason it would be so bad is that it would be somewhat of a scam. A rigged sale. The 'legal issues' they were struggling with in such a case might be tax avoidance on selling the game at a true value, or not having to pay anyone other than NCsoft who had any shares in the game (as top level managers often do, anyone know if Brian or Matt had any shares?). But regardless it would be putting all of the staff of Paragon Studios out of work for a 'fire sale' opportunity. It would never smell right.
Nexon, since you ask, are the largest Korean game company, and something of a poster-child for the country's industry generally. Where NCsoft are the smaller of the two companies, and mainly have got their through investing in developing games themselves, Nexon raised a billion dollars when they went public, and other than their first ever game, have mainly got there by buying already successful game's smaller companies. Nexon has developed some games itself but these have almost always been its flops.
Where NCsoft get about 70% of their business in their own country, and only 30% from other countries, Nexon is the reverse, with almost 70% of its business coming from outside Korea. A successful global business bringing money into Korea. Nexon is the smarter at distribution and selling its game to non-domestic markets. Nexon is also better at monetizing games through cash-shops and micro-transactions - the direction almost everyone claims that the entire games industry must go. NCsoft adds that one major strength in being able to develop its own games, so while they are technically both rivals in the gaming market, there is also tremendous potential for synergy and cooperation.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2012/11/134_117086.html seems to give a fairly decent overview of how the two companies working together is being reported in Korea.
-
Time like this is when I'm glad I'm not actively moderating my own forums right now (down for service and other issues).
-
The reason it would be so bad is that it would be somewhat of a scam. A rigged sale. The 'legal issues' they were struggling with in such a case might be tax avoidance on selling the game at a true value, or not having to pay anyone other than NCsoft who had any shares in the game (as top level managers often do, anyone know if Brian or Matt had any shares?). But regardless it would be putting all of the staff of Paragon Studios out of work for a 'fire sale' opportunity. It would never smell right.
Nexon, since you ask, are the largest Korean game company, and something of a poster-child for the country's industry generally. Where NCsoft are the smaller of the two companies, and mainly have got their through investing in developing games themselves, Nexon raised a billion dollars when they went public, and other than their first ever game, have mainly got there by buying already successful game's smaller companies. Nexon has developed some games itself but these have almost always been its flops.
Where NCsoft get about 70% of their business in their own country, and only 30% from other countries, Nexon is the reverse, with almost 70% of its business coming from outside Korea. A successful global business bringing money into Korea. Nexon is the smarter at distribution and selling its game to non-domestic markets. Nexon is also better at monetizing games through cash-shops and micro-transactions - the direction almost everyone claims that the entire games industry must go. NCsoft adds that one major strength in being able to develop its own games, so while they are technically both rivals in the gaming market, there is also tremendous potential for synergy and cooperation.
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2012/11/134_117086.html seems to give a fairly decent overview of how the two companies working together is being reported in Korea.
Thank you for the explanation. I see where selling the game like this is shady as hell, it sounds illegal but also sounds like a sneaky loophole. But I guess I don't see that as bad. If Nexon acquires CoH, and turns it back on, that's a win to me. Of course we lost our devs, we may not get any of them back, and it may take weeks to hear back from customer service, and someone mentioned account data may be purged and cause everyone to start all over (but that sounded like a big if). Not perfect, but I don't think we'll get a perfect solution (perfect solution is NCSoft going 'April Fools!' and all the devs joining going 'Haha! Gotcha! And here is I24 going live'). But I guess what I'm widdling down to is, Nexon actually sounds better than NCSoft so why wouldn't we want them to take CoH?
-
(perfect solution is NCSoft going 'April Fools!' and all the devs joining going 'Haha! Gotcha! And here is I24 going live').
Some joke... :P
-
....Seriously, speculation is wasting time we could be using to actually fight with. We still have so much to do. Sitting back to speculate when we haven't spead the latest links, made comments, liked and +1'd coverage etc is not something that will make us win a fight against the odds.
I swore I wouldn't weigh in on this, but I agree with this right here.
The human mind has a tendency to find patterns- we're frighteningly good at it- we even find patterns where they don't exist. We're grasping at straws here, trying to make sense out of something that doesn't seem to fit the reality we know. To do that, we look for patterns. We take every tablescrap we can find even loosely tied to NCSoft, Paragon, or whatever and we cobble them together whether they make sense or not. We learn facts like the recent distribution deal and stock purchase between Nexon and NCSoft and we assume that it MUST be related to this. It's a clue, dammit, it HAS to mean something. Nexon must be involved somehow... as does Blade & Soul... as does Perfect World and thus Cryptic (PW, Nexon, & NC all have business agreements, after all). Now how do we connect them all? someone else mentions the possibility of a sale? all the better....
I swear, I'm surprised someone hasn't found a way to tie in the Star Wars Sale to Disney, the Avengers movie, and the recent presidential elections (Correction: someone DID try to tie in Obamacare's costs to the decision to close Paragon Studios)into the quagmire by now. Sure, they don't directly relate to NCSoft, but given some of the other tangents we tie in, it wouldn't take much to do a "six-degrees-to-Kevin-Bacon" kind of thing here.
Ironically the less we know about a certain subject, the more convinced we can become about the picture we create from the few scraps we see. This is the basis for so many of humanity's long-standing impossible-to-debunk conspiracy theories, and its one reason why those more "in the know" for these conspiracies have a such a tough time taking the theorists seriously.
The speculation and debate is a waste of time and a diversion from any productive effort.
It's easy to fall into the trap. We all want answers- *I* want answers, but at some point, you have to say to yourself, "We don't have enough information to put together a real answer. We can't even GET the information we need.... but we can do other things even without that information."
- We can keep the pressure on NCSoft to head toward a community-friendly solution.
- We can keep the spotlight on the situation so other MMO publishers know not to follow the lead of these boneheads.
- We can continue to enjoy the game while we have it.
- We can help record all that the game offered, as others are doing here on the boards.
- We can look to contribute to the game's "Spiritual Successor"
- We can remain prepared to support any effort to legitimately resurrect the game, once more details come to light.
Focus on these things.
Focus on action.
Leave the speculation for when that's all we have left.
-
Folks the pressure is on as the end nears.
Fighting among ourselves serves no one but our foe. The days pass more rapidly as the end nears and while you have been fighting you believed we would win. We might but again realize the game as we know it - owned by NCSoft will end Nov 30th.
It actually reminds me of a castle being put under siege for 3 months. If we win the surrounding countryside will be changed perhaps forever - but if we lose it is even worse. So as fighters and with many Alpha type personalities - we will at times grind on each others nerves - it is who we are. Defeat angers us, losing battles angers us - losing wars gives us quiet rage that can cause you to snap at those on your side.
Save the anger for NCSoft.
-
People have also mentioned a Disney buy out, and a George Lucas buy out...
But yes, you are right and I'm sorry. The speculations are at the very least fun, but they do not help at all.
-
Still think this infighting is exactly what whoever leaked this stuff to Fansy was going for.
Also still a cynic. lol
Quinch, Rae, Ammon and I are working on a "this is a crazy idea, but it just might work." I've been a bit out of the loop due to World Fantasy Convention in Toronto (we drove--Tulsa to Toronto and back again) but I am home now and we should have something in a few days for you to hit the ground running with.
Additionally, Larry is going to hit up a very interesting contact of his with a variation of the "crazy idea"--a plan he came up with today. So, hang in there, get ready to weather the dark days of December, and keep that pressure on NCSoft.
Yay for something new to concentrate our efforts on. We need it.
-
If CoH shuts down, Nexon cuts a deal with NCSoft to buy up the game and turns it back on in the new year, wouldn't that be a win for us?
From my personal experience, Nexon is not a company we want to handle CoH. They deal mostly in F2P games. The nature of Eastern F2P games is pay to gamble to win. You're heavily restricted as a free player and even as a subscriber.
Imagine if the only way to have non default costume pieces or purple enhancements was to buy a "mystery box" from the cash shop. Inside that mystery box could be the costume piece/purple you wanted, a purple/costume piece you didn't want or a piece of junk like common salvage or small inspiration.
A F2P system like CoH had is extremely rare.
-
i know there are usually a lot of speculation, rumors, and potential for poeple to try to get in and sabotage stuff, first thing i usually do is ask myself if i recognize the poster
fansy has proven themselves a trustworthy person in the past and thus im inclined to believe what they are talking about
the thread that popped up the other day with a guy ive never heard of with 1 post count i didnt believe for a moment and it was confirmed to be complete falacy when they claimed to have contact with mercedes and mercedes popped in and said they have not been contacted by anyone
i think there is a large amount of questioning and stuff going on right now because we DONT know hardly any of the facts, so almost anything could be true, or it could be fasle, but in either case i make a judgement based on who posted it
TheManga does have a point to play a little devils advocate on this, as in this time where almost no information can be guarenteed 100% accurate, what we should do is judge the information by the person presenting the information, if the person presenting the information could be trusted, then the information is more trustworthy than the average joe with no post count
with all the conspiracy theories about why ncsoft could have made the closure decision, truthful information is scarce unless it comes from a trustworthy poster or if there are sources listed (such as a web article) to support the posters claim. both would be preferable but i know for the more trustworthy sources, the sources they get their information need to maintain anonymity for the time being until things can get resolved and more information comes out to the open
as mentioned what we need to do is stick together, keep pressuring ncsoft, and turning up or down the heat depending on what information is revealed as time goes on
we will be able to do this as long as we can stick together, and i know we can do that, we have done that for 8 years on the official forums
-
From my personal experience, Nexon is not a company we want to handle CoH. They deal mostly in F2P games. The nature of Eastern F2P games is pay to gamble to win. You're heavily restricted as a free player and even as a subscriber.
Imagine if the only way to have non default costume pieces or purple enhancements was to buy a "mystery box" from the cash shop. Inside that mystery box could be the costume piece/purple you wanted, a purple/costume piece you didn't want or a piece of junk like common salvage or small inspiration.
Frighteningly, that sounds very similar to the "lockbox" system Champions Online is now using. (Except you don't buy a "mystery box" from the shop; the lockboxes drop randomly and you have to buy the keys to open those boxes from the shop. And, not everything is unlocked that way - but they're moving closer to that)
Anyway, if all this rumor and speculation about NCSoft and Nexon turns out to be true, and CoH comes back up as a Nexon-owned game in early 2013, it'll still leave a bitter taste in my mouth over the needless destruction of Paragon Studios.
P.S., good luck on your Crazy Thing That We Don't Know What It Does, Victoria! I'm rooting for you, too!
-
As Necrotechmaster rightly observes, we are all operating in a vacuum. We're trying to piece together the motives and intents of a company that no longer deigns to speak to us, and seems to want nothing more to do with us. Speaking for myself, the feeling is mutual. Anyway, there will be speculation, much of it wrong, but jumping on someone for speculating serves no purpose.
"Seriously, you told us that a guy who already is worth billions, and undersold some of his holding for just under a billion, is doing this to maybe one day retire with a billion?"
Well Ammon, Mr. Kim evidently believes his actions will make him richer. If he is "already worth billions," he will still seek another billion. The rich are often addicts -- addicted to money.
"If you harm that, by posting misleading bullshit...."
Ammon, I try to be tolerant and you do have a point, but your language is out of line. Lily is correct that infighting only serves NCSoft's ends, not ours. So I hope we can expect civility from all sides from now on, yes? Or, to paraphrase another bard, "be friends you fools! We have Korean foes enough."
"We still have so much to do."
There's the rub! For most of us, there really isn't a lot to do. Not a lot we can do. What we can do, legally, we have done. Chasearcanum's list is well taken and productive. But helplessness has been our worst enemy from the start.
-
Personally, if it meant that CoH would keep going, or even if it would increase its chance of continuing, I'd delete each and every alt I've made over the past six years without batting an eyelash.
That said... NCsoft's credibility is shot to pieces already, so even if they did, somehow, miraculously decide to restart the game, I'd be... skeptical at best.
I would happily start over with a clean slate. The fun, for me at least, is in the journey and in imagining the possibilities for characters.
I get about as much enjoyment making characters in PnP RPGs as I do actually playing those characters.
I'm fairly sure that most of the people that I played with wouldn't be too terribly upset to start over either.
I can always remake the characters that I currently have. Maybe, even correct some mistakes I had made in the process.
-
I would happily start over with a clean slate. The fun, for me at least, is in the journey and in imagining the possibilities for characters.
I get about as much enjoyment making characters in PnP RPGs as I do actually playing those characters.
I'm fairly sure that most of the people that I played with wouldn't be too terribly upset to start over either.
I can always remake the characters that I currently have. Maybe, even correct some mistakes I had made in the process.
I'd be saddened by the loss of all my IO'd 50's and my fully upgraded tier 9 VIP accounts with access to pretty much every costume piece in the game... not to mention I'd be hard pressed to ever recover my 50's due to work taking up so much time... :-\
On the other hand, I generally play new concepts and power combinations anyway - so the loss of those 50's would only be annoying when new high level stuff comes out - and if I have to choose between starting over or losing the game forever... *sighs* Starting over it is... though I'd have been much enthusiastic about doing that on CoH2 or the like.
Either way, looking forward to the new project VV & Co!
-
We still need to be turning up the volume, gathering more support.
Instead I see fewer and fewer comments and likes made to posts covering the story and linked to in the 'Thank the Media' call to action thread.
^^
This. The more traffic we drive to websites/magazines who had covered the campaign, the more likely the editors are to look at their stats, see there's an interest in the story and run more on it. This is even more likely if we're interacting with them, leaving comments and likes.
I know that it feels like so many parts of the media are ignoring us since NC Soft claimed they'd 'exhausted' all options, but we need to be putting pressure on the magazines to investigate the claims NC Soft made about exhausting themselves. We need to be shouting about the great stuff we're doing, like the real world hero drive.
If it doesn't look like WE'RE interested in the coverage we're getting, how can we expect the press and the blogs and the website to be interested in us?
Please, please, please a billion times over.. please swing by the 'thank the media thread' and leave a comment on the articles that have been written about us. Find the 'NC Soft say they exhausted all options' articles and ask what investigation they did into that claim, or if they just copy and pasted NC Soft's statement. Call them out publicly, so they HAVE to respond, or follow up on it.
If you put pressure on a journalist, they will, in turn, put pressure on NC Soft. Or write an article about how they ignored them, or wouldn't respond to comments, which puts pressure on NC Soft.
If anyone is looking for something to do, I am desperate for bloggers and game journalists to rework and find a home for the 'firewall of silence' press release I put up. PLEASE PM me if you've got a blog, or write for a gaming site, or think you can help with this?
--
I know things are getting harder, and I know a lot of people feel like their flagging a little.
I know it's been forever since we've had an official call to action, so it's left a lot of people who are very angry and upset in the same place, trying to work out what's going on and without a call to action, there's all that pent-up frustration bouncing around, without an outlet, or without being steered in a particular direction. That's bound to lead to short tempers and spats.
But we're all on the same side, and we all want the same thing. Even if we don't always see eye-to-eye as to how we're going to get there.
-
Hey, rae, speaking of "NCSoft ignored us" articles, did that one your friend/publisher/editor/person-of-note was writing ever get printed? I know they were waiting on a (non-)reply from NCSoft, last I heard.
-
Also, check out Terwyn's blog on the Voices articles. I suggest cross-linking them in the comments anybody makes, especially comments on otherwise-short articles that might just be repeating NCSoft's pablum about how sorry they are for drowning this puppy and how hard they tried to stop holding it under, but ask that we stop pointing out that it's still struggling and instead enjoy our memories of how much fun we had with it before it was held under the water.
It is relevant and, if I know his work, going to be more-than-adequately cited, and will thus be valid for cross-linking. That it also has positive impact on search engine results regarding our cause is a nice bonus.
-
Hey, rae, speaking of "NCSoft ignored us" articles, did that one your friend/publisher/editor/person-of-note was writing ever get printed? I know they were waiting on a (non-)reply from NCSoft, last I heard.
I'm fairly sure I saw an article that said they waited for a while for a response from NCSoft, hmm, the Starburst one maybe?
Edit: I can confirm that on the 23rd of October 2012 I personally emailed them and asked for their in depth response on exactly what efforts had been made to sell the game, and continue the community for the fans. I informed them that I would be running this article, but they did not even have the decency to reply.
That's the one I was thinking of.
-
Yeah, that'd be the "Boycot NCSoft" article from Starburst Magazine, as discussed in this thread: http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6187.0.html
-
Close! The one my friend wrote is here:
http://www.starburstmagazine.com/gaming-news/3867-gaming-news-city-of-heroes-update
And can be commented on :)
The editorial was an unexpected, and very gratefully received bonus.
-
Quinch, Rae, Ammon and I are working on a "this is a crazy idea, but it just might work." I've been a bit out of the loop due to World Fantasy Convention in Toronto (we drove--Tulsa to Toronto and back again) but I am home now and we should have something in a few days for you to hit the ground running with.
Additionally, Larry is going to hit up a very interesting contact of his with a variation of the "crazy idea"--a plan he came up with today. So, hang in there, get ready to weather the dark days of December, and keep that pressure on NCSoft.
Hope you and everyone had an amazingly wonderful time at the World Fantasy Convention in Toronto. And Yay to having an Out of the Box Idea That Just Might Work! Ditto for Larry's variation of said idea. If the idea involves us, super! F7! Ready! ;-)
-
Alright! Hope it's a great crazy idea! Cool!
-
Indeed! I'm looking forward to this.
-
I just saw this on the official forums: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=298415
Join Rich (AKA Pogoman) for another episode as he discusses the plight of the greatest MMORPG players community and their battle to save their beloved game. This week, a very special guest. The world renowned author, Mercedes Lackey, calls in!! She is also known as Victoria Victrix on the COH and Titan Network boards.
Join us here, 7pm EST, this Friday night for Save City of Heroes Radio!
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/theelf/...save-coh-radio
If you would like to join in the chat, please take a few minutes ahead of time and sign up for a FREE blogtalk radio account.
-
I, too, cannot reveal my source, but it is solid, and I hope you will accept my credibility at this point. Let's just say I had an interesting afternoon gathering information.
Fansy's source is correct. The reason that the game "must" be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially "dead."
The bad news: the game will close Nov 30.
The good news: it can rise from the ashes.
-
I, too, cannot reveal my source, but it is solid, and I hope you will accept my credibility at this point. Let's just say I had an interesting afternoon gathering information.
Fansy's source is correct. The reason that the game "must" be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially "dead."
The bad news: the game will close Nov 30.
The good news: it can rise from the ashes.
Thank you very much for the Good News/Bad News. I think you're among the most credible posting to these forums. Thank you for all you've done and are doing to help save City of Heroes and to keep your fellow fans informed. You're one in a million, Ms. Lackey! Thank you!!
-
I, too, cannot reveal my source, but it is solid, and I hope you will accept my credibility at this point. Let's just say I had an interesting afternoon gathering information.
Fansy's source is correct. The reason that the game "must" be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially "dead."
The bad news: the game will close Nov 30.
The good news: it can rise from the ashes.
Coming from you it's definitely more credible than others. I hope the asking price then is something sane.
-
I, too, cannot reveal my source, but it is solid, and I hope you will accept my credibility at this point. Let's just say I had an interesting afternoon gathering information.
Fansy's source is correct. The reason that the game "must" be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially "dead."
The bad news: the game will close Nov 30.
The good news: it can rise from the ashes.
Can I post this too? :P
EDIT: Ok, it seems someone already has.
-
About 4 times there, GG, counting you and I. ;D
-
I, too, cannot reveal my source, but it is solid, and I hope you will accept my credibility at this point. Let's just say I had an interesting afternoon gathering information.
Fansy's source is correct. The reason that the game "must" be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially "dead."
The bad news: the game will close Nov 30.
The good news: it can rise from the ashes.
In all honesty I have no sources whatsoever but there was a post on the official forums several months ago that basically said the very same thing. There were certain legal hang ups with the sale and apparently as I understand it NC Soft wouldnt sell before the closing unless the company buying the game would take on all the responsibility for potential legal issues. And thus no one would buy the game because of that...
again I am no one.. have no sources... this is just what I read buried somewhere on a thread months ago..
-
Lotta unicorns sniffing around the thread on the main boards. :)
-
Lotta unicorns sniffing around the thread on the main boards. :)
Another_fan has been a huge troll on the main boards for a really really really long time.
-
And Angry_Citizen too?
-
Unicorns gonna unicorn, I guess.
(And, yes, I've switched to just typing it as it displays...)
-
You know that the politically correct term is "those of a single-horned visage", right? :)
-
thanks VV for the update, both for confirming what fansy was saying, and for giving everyone hope
the news that it is very likely to be able to be sold after it has closed is very good
-
thanks VV for the update, both for confirming what fansy was saying, and for giving everyone hope
the news that it is very likely to be able to be sold after it has closed is very good
If it turns out after closing that all it will take is money...well, that's not insurmountable.
-
based on what has been said in this thread, thats what it sounds like, which means any number of poeple may be interested in snatching up the IP
i just hope that whoever gets it basically starts it back up the same as or nearly the same as it was left off
-
"The reason that the game 'must' be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially 'dead.'"
Extremely useful information.
Now... advice please. In your opinion, should we put the campaign attacking NCSoft on hiatus given this new information?
What other courses of action would you advise we follow?
-
right now i think keeping up small stuff like we have been should suffice until we know exactly what ncsoft wants to do with the IP after the game actually closes, cause it could go either way
-
Keep up the pressure. We want them to know in NO uncertain terms that we are not going away. Let me use a cowboy analogy. The bull is flailing around the pen, and we need to herd it into the chute. It needs to go where we want to put it, and the only way to do that is keep up the pressure.
Remember, they brought this on themselves.
-
There seem to be many reasons to keep the pressure going. Not least that i think NCSoft - even if their motives are purer than they actually seem - could have handled this with a lot more respect for their customers.
-
I, too, cannot reveal my source, but it is solid, and I hope you will accept my credibility at this point. Let's just say I had an interesting afternoon gathering information.
Fansy's source is correct. The reason that the game "must" be shut down before it can be sold is because of perceived legal problems and liabilities on the part of the NCSoft legal department. (It's not lawsuits or potential lawsuits with Marvel, but other issues regarding ownership). Apparently dealing with the Garriott case scared the whey out of them, and they are now jumping at imagined shadows. They won't even consider selling until it is officially "dead."
The bad news: the game will close Nov 30.
The good news: it can rise from the ashes.
That is great news! It's still not guaranteed that things will turn out alright after all, but it sure is closer than it was before (AKA the "NCSoft will sit on the IP until the end of times" idea).
Thanks VV, your news helped lift the gloom that's been building more and more as the shut down draws nearer.
-
Sweet! I feel David has Goliath reeling! ;D
We will get our game back! Never give up! Never surrender!
-
Hail!
Now didn't I say I was busy singing songs all across the globe to obtain as much information as I could?
8)
I was brought into this with a tangled mess and a dreadful woe. May you now relax a little more when Ol'Fansy spins a song of magical proportions to ears most longing. I'm not without my tricks, tips, sources, and superdine! Not many do I have left, admittedly, but there is much still left to be yearned and as long as there is the smallest stream to drink from I will! Partially because playing instruments and singing can really tire us small folk out.
In any pace!
Thank you much for getting your source to open its clamorous tap-tap so that I know to trust in my own a little more, my good Lackey. Together with our ability to scour the open seas there is nothing that can hide from us.
And to the Community I will let know I shall be returning to silence for I must write new music and tend to grasping for acorns as they fall, plucking fruits from trees and bush. Got quite a bit of work to repay not only a source in kind but to follow up with a couple more interesting details that have come to light. I won't sing of them yet, but when I can..
Always for the Good Team!
Fansy the Famous Bard
-
It is unfortunate that NCSoft couldn't simply state this. I mean, I get that they couldn't say it blatantly, but to not even hint at the possibility of selling it off after it closes being more possible is sad, because it made everybody more anxious than they probably had to be. That said, we absolutely must keep up the pressure. Keep it blue side, keep it something we can turn around and make them friends again if they cooperate. The bull, once in the pen, should be patted down and fed.
But the more pressure we keep on them, the more their PR is continuing to take a hit until they get the game into the hands of somebody who will start it up for its players again, the more desperate they will be to entertain offers, and the more reasonable the price might just be.
-
Hmm. Seems someone is replying just as start this. I wonder if they will make the same points.
Here are some critical questions:
- What exactly will NCSoft be selling?
- Does it include the licensing of the game engine? It belongs to Cryptic Studios, not NCSoft
- Will the buyer be able to rehire enough of the core development team and support staff to get the game running again?
- Will it include existing character and player data? Some serious liabilities with that one!
- Will NCSoft's terms be actually reasonable for the sale?
None of these are absolute show stoppers, but they should be considered and planned for if we want to save the game.
I can't say too much more because I'm not an impartial observer at the moment, even if I'm a supportive one.
-
Hail!
Now didn't I say I was busy singing songs all across the globe to obtain as much information as I could?
8)
I was brought into this with a tangled mess and a dreadful woe. May you now relax a little more when Ol'Fansy spins a song of magical proportions to ears most longing. I'm not without my tricks, tips, sources, and superdine! Not many do I have left, admittedly, but there is much still left to be yearned and as long as there is the smallest stream to drink from I will! Partially because playing instruments and singing can really tire us small folk out.
In any pace!
Thank you much for getting your source to open its clamorous tap-tap so that I know to trust in my own a little more, my good Lackey. Together with our ability to scour the open seas there is nothing that can hide from us.
And to the Community I will let know I shall be returning to silence for I must write new music and tend to grasping for acorns as they fall, plucking fruits from trees and bush. Got quite a bit of work to repay not only a source in kind but to follow up with a couple more interesting details that have come to light. I won't sing of them yet, but when I can..
Always for the Good Team!
Fansy the Famous Bard
Thanks and Best to you in your endeavors!
-
Hmm. Seems someone is replying just as start this. I wonder if they will make the same points.
Here are some critical questions:
- What exactly will NCSoft be selling?
- Does it include the licensing of the game engine? It belongs to Cryptic Studios, not NCSoft
- Will the buyer be able to rehire enough of the core development team and support staff to get the game running again?
- Will it include existing character and player data? Some serious liabilities with that one!
- Will NCSoft's terms be actually reasonable for the sale?
None of these are absolute show stoppers, but they should be considered and planned for if we want to save the game.
I can't say too much more because I'm not an impartial observer at the moment, even if I'm a supportive one.
I can't answer the first item, but...
Does it include the licensing of the game engine? It belongs to Cryptic Studios, not NCSoft
More than a month ago, before I got involved in Plan Z, I was looking into the viability of trying to get my employer to buy CoH for my own research and development purposes. I contacted Cryptic's CEO to ask if they would have issue with re-licensing the use of the game engine should we get to that point, and he indicated he did not think it would be a problem at all on Cryptic's end. While that's not a binding legal statement, I am inclined to trust the CEO's instincts on this matter; after all, Cryptic probably doesn't mind effectively free money.
Will the buyer be able to rehire enough of the core development team and support staff to get the game running again?
VV has stated that, after a long conversation with Brian Clayton, if he can get ahold of CoH's rights he thinks he can put the core of the team back together. Take that as you will, but I choose to find it hopeful, at a minimum.
Will NCSoft's terms be actually reasonable for the sale?
That would be what the purpose of keeping up the pressure is: to make them WANT to sell, so they'll take any price they can get.
-
Thanks, Segev, I wasn't terribly worried about the license issue, but it would need to be brought up anyways.
You answered 3 of the 5 questions, punted on one, and ignored the last about player accounts. :) But "I don't know" would have probably worked for that one.
-
Remember too our anger not just due to the shut down. It's the all out kicking the Paragon Studio crew out the door. This would be without pay if it wasn't for California law that gave them a buffer.
There is also the Issue 24 sitting in the test server that we were waiting for.
They could have set all accounts to VIP so everyone could have a final blast rampaging the Incarnate trials. People like me that was stuck in F2P misses out.
Also issues of money refunds being hard to get.
-
Remember too our anger not just due to the shut down. It's the all out kicking the Paragon Studio crew out the door. This would be without pay if it wasn't for California law that gave them a buffer.
There is also the Issue 24 sitting in the test server that we were waiting for.
They could have set all accounts to VIP so everyone could have a final blast rampaging the Incarnate trials. People like me that was stuck in F2P misses out.
Also issues of money refunds being hard to get.
That last one could be part of a BBB complaint. :)
-
Remember too our anger not just due to the shut down. It's the all out kicking the Paragon Studio crew out the door. This would be without pay if it wasn't for California law that gave them a buffer.
To be fair - and I'm not saying we should lighten up at all because of this - it could be due to that CA law that they so abruptly kicked them out, rather than keeping them on until the game was closed. They had to factor in the period of time they'd have to pay them after firing them, so they may have done so as early and abruptly as they did because they didn't want to pay past Nov. 1. Without those laws, who knows? They might've kept them on until Nov. 1 just to keep them under NDA etc.
There is also the Issue 24 sitting in the test server that we were waiting for.
They could have set all accounts to VIP so everyone could have a final blast rampaging the Incarnate trials. People like me that was stuck in F2P misses out.
Also issues of money refunds being hard to get.
There are other "to be fairs..." for these, but these are much more valid complaints. And in any event, we must keep up the pressure.
-
True all have To be Fairs.
True as well each is kindling to our anger over the closing. My point is that it's not just the closing it's a compounding effect of all these issues adding to each other.
-
Will NCSoft's terms be actually reasonable for the sale?
That would be what the purpose of keeping up the pressure is: to make them WANT to sell, so they'll take any price they can get.
Exactly as Segev says.
The fact that CoH was still profitable by a healthy amount is why this whole thing of closing it perplexed us all so much. Its why we know the game still has a future. But it is also something that means it will not be cheap. No matter what, I can still tell you that Valve's offer of $3 million plus some profit share was a hideously low offer for a game with revenue of $10 million per year.
Even now, with a huge black eye in publicity, NCsoft may not even consider selling the game for less than 1 year's revenue. Normally you'd expect the price to be around 2-5 years revenue, so I think realistically, we're still going to be looking for a buyer to be offering at least double what Valve reportedly did. Even with the game closed, unless they want to wait for it to lose demand and reduce further in value just to make a CoH 2.
So reasonable is still not going to be pocket change. Valve's offer of $3 million plus was just as unreasonable as NCsoft's valuation of $80 million. The true value is something I'm not going to make public suggestion of, just in case NCsoft does have people watching, but I think, with keeping the pressure on, we can have the price at below $10 million, which is very reasonable, in my opinion and analysis.
-
It is unfortunate that NCSoft couldn't simply state this. I mean, I get that they couldn't say it blatantly, but to not even hint at the possibility of selling it off after it closes being more possible is sad, because it made everybody more anxious than they probably had to be. That said, we absolutely must keep up the pressure. Keep it blue side, keep it something we can turn around and make them friends again if they cooperate. The bull, once in the pen, should be patted down and fed.
But the more pressure we keep on them, the more their PR is continuing to take a hit until they get the game into the hands of somebody who will start it up for its players again, the more desperate they will be to entertain offers, and the more reasonable the price might just be.
Well, they DID say on their Facebook to please stop all the hurtful comments and that they would be providing a better service in the future =P (to that guy that got banned).
-
Hmm. Seems someone is replying just as start this. I wonder if they will make the same points.
Here are some critical questions:
- What exactly will NCSoft be selling?
- Does it include the licensing of the game engine? It belongs to Cryptic Studios, not NCSoft
- Will the buyer be able to rehire enough of the core development team and support staff to get the game running again?
[/b]
- Will it include existing character and player data? Some serious liabilities with that one!
- Will NCSoft's terms be actually reasonable for the sale?
None of these are absolute show stoppers, but they should be considered and planned for if we want to save the game.
I can't say too much more because I'm not an impartial observer at the moment, even if I'm a supportive one.
My current wishful thinking/conspiracy theory is that Matt Miller is waiting for that to happen, hence not having a new job yet and staying silent!
(Quite unlikely that I'd be right, but a guy can hope :P)
-
So reasonable is still not going to be pocket change. Valve's offer of $3 million plus was just as unreasonable as NCsoft's valuation of $80 million. The true value is something I'm not going to make public suggestion of, just in case NCsoft does have people watching, but I think, with keeping the pressure on, we can have the price at below $10 million, which is very reasonable, in my opinion and analysis.
Do you not think (in the light of subsequent info/rumour) the NCSoft 80 million is consistent with them not wanting to sell unless the amount of money was so astronomically huge they would guarantee covering their butts if anybody sued.
A question for somebody who understand the economics better than me: (and possibly to cater for different use of language across the pond)
Revenue = money taken in regardless of costs ? or is it profit ?
And surely if it's incoming money, how much it is compared to the costs would make some modification to the multiplier to calculate the price.
-
Do you not think (in the light of subsequent info/rumour) the NCSoft 80 million is consistent with them not wanting to sell unless the amount of money was so astronomically huge they would guarantee covering their butts if anybody sued.
A question for somebody who understand the economics better than me: (and possibly to cater for different use of language across the pond)
Revenue = money taken in regardless of costs ? or is it profit ?
And surely if it's incoming money, how much it is compared to the costs would make some modification to the multiplier to calculate the price.
Revenue is just money taken in.
That's why it's important to a buyer to consider ALL of the issues in a purchase. Other complications could make the buy a sure loser.
-
Yeah, count me as one of the many that have been banned from the game and the forums for requesting a refund. Just hope my toons can be "unbanned" once we (hopefully) transition over to a new owner.
-
Keep up the pressure, message received.
Though I for one am considerably mollified if NCSoft has legal entanglements they can't discuss. It's my nature to not think the worst of people. Hopefully, this unexpected hurricane of bad press will teach them an important lesson, though. Be as forthright as you can, to the point of saying, "We're caught in a situation we can't legally discuss," and show consideration for your customers. The accumulation of disservices and callous gestures betrays a most unbecoming and haughty contempt for us.
Fansy, may the muses guide you. Rock on.
-
Anyone else get this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQo1HIcSVtg) in their heads when they read the title of the thread? :)
-
Anyone else get this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQo1HIcSVtg) in their heads when they read the title of the thread? :)
I do now! :o
-
If it turns out after closing that all it will take is money...well, that's not insurmountable.
So long as they're not still asking $80 million for it.
-
I've got this confirmed.
The asking price for City will drop exponentially from the reported 80 million when it closes. I have the feeling that the 80 million actually included an exponential amount of padding to deal with those chimerical "legal issues"--after twice losing the Garriott case, I speculate they wanted enough in the bank to pay out without hurting. Once it's closed, all those issues go away, and the price goes to something reasonable.
Sale will include the IP and code. The game engine was bought outright from Cryptic when NCSoft bought City (I have this from another impeccable source who was working at Cryptic when the sale happened).
What is NOT known is whether account and character data are going to be preserved. No one knows this except NCSoft. Archiving your characters via Sentinel + might prove the only way to restore them--I can only say that one would hope that in the event that character data is deleted, a new owner would see the wisdom of doing a one-time restore for those that have done so, but that will depend on the generosity of a new owner.
-
So what sort of price are we talking here? 10 million? 20 million?
EDIT: Also, does this mean that they're considering selling?
-
So what sort of price are we talking here? 10 million? 20 million?
EDIT: Also, does this mean that they're considering selling?
Price: Can't tell you. Stating a number would be too revealing to my source, which I MUST protect.
Your question: My source believes they will.
-
So it's ok to post this info too? :P
-
So it's ok to post this info too? :P
Should be safe enough, just please BOLD the parts where I say I "speculate" "I hope" or "have the feeling." Those are personal impressions and not confirmed as fact.
-
I've got this confirmed.
The asking price for City will drop exponentially from the reported 80 million when it closes. I have the feeling that the 80 million actually included an exponential amount of padding to deal with those chimerical "legal issues"--after twice losing the Garriott case, I speculate they wanted enough in the bank to pay out without hurting. Once it's closed, all those issues go away, and the price goes to something reasonable.
Sale will include the IP and code. The game engine was bought outright from Cryptic when NCSoft bought City (I have this from another impeccable source who was working at Cryptic when the sale happened).
What is NOT known is whether account and character data are going to be preserved. No one knows this except NCSoft. Archiving your characters via Sentinel + might prove the only way to restore them--I can only say that one would hope that in the event that character data is deleted, a new owner would see the wisdom of doing a one-time restore for those that have done so, but that will depend on the generosity of a new owner.
Thank you so much for the information you have been putting out. I understand that it is very difficult for you to say exactly what you want to but it means so much to all of us who are making efforts to keep on going - really appreciate it :)
-
Price: Can't tell you. Stating a number would be too revealing to my source, which I MUST protect.
Your question: My source believes they will.
Thank you as always, Miss Lackey. I hope the game itself can be saved... I am curious as to whether or not sale of the game/code will include issue 24. From what I've seen on Beta, I very much hope it does.
-
Yes, thanks immensely, Mercedes!
Even if nothing comes of any of this, thanks ever so much for pushing forward with positive action. And if you and yours do wind up saving the day-- it's a round of permanent, torch-bearing statues in AP 33 for all of you, and Tony too!
We do realize this is all yet another long shot but....Keep us posted.
-
Yes, thanks immensely, Mercedes!
Even if nothing comes of any of this, thanks ever so much for pushing forward with positive action. And if you and yours do wind up saving the day-- it's a round of permanent, torch-bearing statues in AP 33 for all of you, and Tony too!
We do realize this is all yet another long shot but....Keep us posted.
I wouldn't call it such a long shot as what we wanted in the first place. Keep hope! :)
-
Archiving your characters via Sentinel + might prove the only way to restore them--I can only say that one would hope that in the event that character data is deleted, a new owner would see the wisdom of doing a one-time restore for those that have done so, but that will depend on the generosity of a new owner.
I'm really hoping Valve buys it. lol
I will be hoping and praying for the best come December!
-
I'm really hoping Valve buys it. lol
I will be hoping and praying for the best come December!
You know what? There is NO harm in launching another round of "Please buy CoH" at Valve, specifying that the rules will have changed come December 1, while Team Wildcard works on our pitch. I don't think any of us actually care WHO gets CoH as long as it's someone that will take care of it.
-
This may be a bit out there but is there any possibility that Titan could buy CoH? This is assuming of course that everything goes as well as it could but i can't imagine a better owner for the game.
I would happily pay my monthly game sub toward a fund for this cause - with an option to add more when i could.
Just saying :)
-
This may be a bit out there but is there any possibility that Titan could buy CoH? This is assuming of course that everything goes as well as it could but i can't imagine a better owner for the game.
I would happily pay my monthly game sub toward a fund for this cause - with an option to add more when i could.
Just saying :)
Kingdom Come Games will attempt to explore funding and purchase options again. The last attempt was abortive when I sensed a likely "wall of silence" during my original probe.
-
You know what? There is NO harm in launching another round of "Please buy CoH" at Valve, specifying that the rules will have changed come December 1, while Team Wildcard works on our pitch. I don't think any of us actually care WHO gets CoH as long as it's someone that will take care of it.
I have connections to one of the largest animation schools in North America. Any chance those might be useful?
-
Every bit helps.
-
thanks for this fantastic update VV
the fact the selling price will drop drastically and the fact that it will likely be sold means the game has a great chance to make a revival
however i am also unsure what they will do with the accounts, i would hope that they could be transfered since the entire game would be sold thus all of our characters and stuff should still be preserved
if the game does make it through but they cant keep our characters, then honestly i still wouldnt care, i would reroll all my characters if need be, whoever keeps the game alive deserves an instant $100 purchase of paragon points just because they kept the game alive lol
-
the fact the selling price will drop drastically and the fact that it will likely be sold means the game has a great chance to make a revival
Don't forget that that's dropping from an insanely high price - even if you slash it by 50%, we'd still be looking at 40 million, which is a crazy price for CoH.
-
Don't forget that that's dropping from an insanely high price - even if you slash it by 50%, we'd still be looking at 40 million, which is a crazy price for CoH.
Exponential drop, GG. I used that word deliberately. The price I was quoted was definitely not insane.
-
Exponential drop, GG. I used that word deliberately. The price I was quoted was definitely not insane.
Lips are sealed. :-X
-
Exponential drop, GG. I used that word deliberately. The price I was quoted was definitely not insane.
10-20 then :P
-
Exponential drop, GG. I used that word deliberately. The price I was quoted was definitely not insane.
So, they fired Crazy Eddie as their negotiator!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-Mhynh_pg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-Mhynh_pg)
;D (Man, I haven't seen one of those ads in a while... I think it was just a local thing though, in the NY area)
(more for fun... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCGsqBn9pog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvqfvvQIoIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO9XC3tAbkQ )
:D
-
Ah, Betamax. That one takes me back. :)
-
if the game does make it through but they cant keep our characters, then honestly i still wouldnt care, i would reroll all my characters if need be, whoever keeps the game alive deserves an instant $100 purchase of paragon points just because they kept the game alive lol
This, this, a thousand times this!!!!
Still... some part of my brain (the Annoying Nagging Doubt region) is wondering if NCsoft is just saying the game will be more sell-able after the closure to lighten the ton of bricks we'd planned to drop on them on Dec. 1st. They already gave us that bit about "exhausting all (selling) options" to try to quiet us down. I'm too emotionally vulnerable and too distrusting of NCsoft to give up my grain of salt until I see more details on this deal.
However, any reassurances that I don't know what the heck I'm talking about and that this after-closure deal is on the level will be an INCREDIBLE relief!
-
This, this, a thousand times this!!!!
Still... some part of my brain (the Annoying Nagging Doubt region) is wondering if NCsoft is just saying the game will be more sell-able after the closure to lighten the ton of bricks we'd planned to drop on them on Dec. 1st. They already gave us that bit about "exhausting all (selling) options" to try to quiet us down. I'm too emotionally vulnerable and too distrusting of NCsoft to give up my grain of salt until I see more details on this deal.
However, any reassurances that I don't know what the heck I'm talking about and that this after-closure deal is on the level will be an INCREDIBLE relief!
There's no reason not to drop the bricks, unless they open up about selling ON December 1st.
-
There's no reason not to drop the bricks, unless they open up about selling ON December 1st.
I second that.
-
10-20 then :P
Lower.
If we can keep the pressure on, I seriously believe that a price under the lowest end would be attainable. For $10 million, I think they'd be able to set up a studio, the servers, and hire developers too. Basically, up and running for $10 mil, so just add in some marketing budget.
-
I know I've used this quote before, but yet again it fits:
"It's not the despair, I can handle the despair. It's the hope that's killing me."
And so I'm sitting here not-quite-crying, because I've gone in the past few days from "what we are doing is worthwhile even if we don't get our game and community back" to genuinely believing we have a real chance at getting it back.
Thank you all yet again; we'll see what happens. And I'll never doubt that what we're doing matters.
-
genuinely believing we have a real chance at getting it back.
Don't get too excited. While this is indeed a real chance, it is still a slim one. We still have to find someone willing to pay millions of dollars for a closed game that is 9 years old and had a dwindling subscription base. At a time when people in the business are saying the days of the MMO are over.
Of course, the dwindling subs were covered by the addition of microtransactions, but that requires that a potential purchaser be interested enough to look into the details past the not-so-attractive obvious. That, above all, is why we need to keep showing that there is demand and market for the game.
-
Well, until Dec 1 I'm sticking with Plan A to show demand: I'm PLAYING the game, every day. In fact I'm typing this as we wait for the last couple players to alt for our Khan TF.
I'll report in on Dec 1 for the next steps to show demand.
-
Lower.
If we can keep the pressure on, I seriously believe that a price under the lowest end would be attainable. For $10 million, I think they'd be able to set up a studio, the servers, and hire developers too. Basically, up and running for $10 mil, so just add in some marketing budget.
10 mil was the amount that NCSoft originally bought the game from Cryptic studios for. But that included staff, active accounts, and a working game with servers. What this will be will be some code extensions to the base engine, the graphics and sound, the client code, and that's about it. The original engine is VERY dated. Current appraisals are much, much lower.
I can't say more.
-
10 mil was the amount that NCSoft originally bought the game from Cryptic studios for. But that included staff, active accounts, and a working game with servers.
I thought NCsoft bought out Cryptic's share of the game, where NCsoft already had a sizeable stake?
-
supposedly i heard valve had offered $3 mil to buy coh, based on the sayings of what may happen i speculate that valve could potentially return with the same offer, or try to haggle if its $10 mil
either way im pretty sure something is bound to happen come dec 1
-
You know what? There is NO harm in launching another round of "Please buy CoH" at Valve, specifying that the rules will have changed come December 1, while Team Wildcard works on our pitch. I don't think any of us actually care WHO gets CoH as long as it's someone that will take care of it.
I was thinking of something similar yesterday, some kind of petition that addresses publishers/game studios at large to purchase CoH once its on the table.
More of a call out than a petition. :P
-
Well, until Dec 1 I'm sticking with Plan A to show demand: I'm PLAYING the game, every day.
...snip...
I'll report in on Dec 1 for the next steps to show demand.
Same here. If our hopes come to naught, I'll have gotten all the time I can out of CoH.
But I hope they come to more than naught. Thank you to all involved for giving us hope, no matter how slim.
-
Don't get too excited. While this is indeed a real chance, it is still a slim one. We still have to find someone willing to pay millions of dollars for a closed game that is 9 years old and had a dwindling subscription base. At a time when people in the business are saying the days of the MMO are over.
Of course, the dwindling subs were covered by the addition of microtransactions, but that requires that a potential purchaser be interested enough to look into the details past the not-so-attractive obvious. That, above all, is why we need to keep showing that there is demand and market for the game.
I wonder when someone is going to realize that the whole "mobile" revolution could actually enhance MMO's, I imagine a savvy entrepeneur could make some kind of "mini-game" app that ties in to the bigger MMO, letting players continue to "advance" in some way even as they are commuting to work, during their lunch breaks and even during slow days at work.
Unless I'm mistaken plenty of Xbox360 games have already done this, I remember some app for Fable 2 (or 3?) where you could earn money in the downloadable app and then later transfer it to your game.
AFAIK Blizzard is currently the only MMO that does something approaching this, you can get an app that lets you use your guild's guildchat from a mobile device*, lets you manage your Auctions and you can browse the Armory.
I know SWTOR wanted to do something similar, like a system where you could send out your companions on their gathering/crafting/mission skills - but they never pursued it (or it's something that's still under wraps).
Heck, you could even tie it in with a browser game that works on both desktops and mobile devices.
* It even shows guildies that this person is using a mobile chat by adding an icon to their name - so they know not to invite them to groups and such =P
-
I wonder when someone is going to realize that the whole "mobile" revolution could actually enhance MMO's, I imagine a savvy entrepeneur could make some kind of "mini-game" app that ties in to the bigger MMO, letting players continue to "advance" in some way even as they are commuting to work, during their lunch breaks and even during slow days at work.
Unless I'm mistaken plenty of Xbox360 games have already done this, I remember some app for Fable 2 (or 3?) where you could earn money in the downloadable app and then later transfer it to your game.
Co-incidentally, Plan Z has been throwing about at least two mobile-game tie-ins for the final game, at least one of which likely would be up and running much, much sooner than the final MMO just to get some active revenue stream.
I will have to approach my employer again about the possibility; if it's really going to be going for fire-sale prices, my purposes could be quite adequately served by restoring CoX to its playerbase, and interesting new advances can come of this...
I will also need to pay close attention to who IS making bids. Whoever the final Producer for Plan Z Studios is, he'll want to know how to position the fledgling company wrt the new owner of CoX. We don't want to be in competition with them, as that defeats a large portion of our purpose in initiating the project in the first place. So we'll see what their plans are, and make our own decisions accordingly.
-
Co-incidentally, Plan Z has been throwing about at least two mobile-game tie-ins for the final game, at least one of which likely would be up and running much, much sooner than the final MMO just to get some active revenue stream.
Cool! I'll have to read up on those! And yeah, alternate revenue streams are always a good thing (especially ones that simultaneously promote the final product :D).
-
supposedly i heard valve had offered $3 mil to buy coh, based on the sayings of what may happen i speculate that valve could potentially return with the same offer, or try to haggle if its $10 mil
either way im pretty sure something is bound to happen come dec 1
Awesome!
Just think of all the possible hats!
... jk ;)
-
To steal a quote from Tremblay on general forums;
"Valve, as the owner of the greatest free-to-play combat-based hat simulator of all times, Team Fortress 2, should really consider adding to its roster the greatest free-to-play superhero-based costume simulator of all times, City of Heroes."
-
Valve! Valve! Valve!
Yes, that would indeed be awesome!
-
I know I've used this quote before, but yet again it fits:
"It's not the despair, I can handle the despair. It's the hope that's killing me."
In my case, I think it's more the rapid swings between the two; that kind of emotional workout makes me feel exhausted.
And so I'm sitting here not-quite-crying, because I've gone in the past few days from "what we are doing is worthwhile even if we don't get our game and community back" to genuinely believing we have a real chance at getting it back.
I guess I'm not alone in that.
Thank you all yet again; we'll see what happens. And I'll never doubt that what we're doing matters.
Neither will I, and I never have.
-
Hail!
I was asked by so many once again who I was in game and that comes with the name F A N S Y
and yes the global is @F A N S Y!
I enjoy the channels: Justice United, and Cape Radio! So please, join them!
I was also asked to let the fine people know (in a forum broadcast) when I am online! Guess what? I am currently playing with a great bunch of people who are learning why bringing a Bard along may not be the wisest decision because no matter how much you sing to an Arch-Villain the result is always the same.
I was on Justice Server, transplanted to Freedom, adventured on VIP and now am on Virtue. If you wish to drop me a line or team feel free to grab me up for whatever it is you may be doing as long as you don't mind a swarm of debt. It will come, my friend.
There you have it, I shall be singing in game for a little longer.
Pretending to own face,
Fansy
-
Hail!
I was asked by so many once again who I was in game and that comes with the name F A N S Y
and yes the global is @F A N S Y!
I enjoy the channels: Justice United, and Cape Radio! So please, join them!
I was also asked to let the fine people know (in a forum broadcast) when I am online! Guess what? I am currently playing with a great bunch of people who are learning why bringing a Bard along may not be the wisest decision because no matter how much you sing to an Arch-Villain the result is always the same.
I was on Justice Server, transplanted to Freedom, adventured on VIP and now am on Virtue. If you wish to drop me a line or team feel free to grab me up for whatever it is you may be doing as long as you don't mind a swarm of debt. It will come, my friend.
There you have it, I shall be singing in game for a little longer.
Pretending to own face,
Fansy
Hi Fansy! Nice to see you on these as well as the official forums as well as on Justice United (JU) chat channel earlier today/last night. I'd be happy to team with you! Thanks for all you've done for us. Re: "a swarm of debt" LOL I don't fear debt, and can earn it off fast enough! My global is the rather cumbersome: @Kristoff von Gelmini who was my second character and my first 50 who's still on Infinity, but I have characters on almost all English language servers (though my best characters are on Justice and Victory.) I'm glad you enjoy CoH enough not just to help out our efforts it but also to play!
-
I've got this confirmed.
The asking price for City will drop exponentially from the reported 80 million when it closes. I have the feeling that the 80 million actually included an exponential amount of padding to deal with those chimerical "legal issues"--after twice losing the Garriott case, I speculate they wanted enough in the bank to pay out without hurting. Once it's closed, all those issues go away, and the price goes to something reasonable.
Sale will include the IP and code. The game engine was bought outright from Cryptic when NCSoft bought City (I have this from another impeccable source who was working at Cryptic when the sale happened).
What is NOT known is whether account and character data are going to be preserved. No one knows this except NCSoft. Archiving your characters via Sentinel + might prove the only way to restore them--I can only say that one would hope that in the event that character data is deleted, a new owner would see the wisdom of doing a one-time restore for those that have done so, but that will depend on the generosity of a new owner.
Thank you as always for bringing us news, especially news as welcome as this!
-
Still... some part of my brain (the Annoying Nagging Doubt region) is wondering if NCsoft is just saying the game will be more sell-able after the closure to lighten the ton of bricks we'd planned to drop on them on Dec. 1st. They already gave us that bit about "exhausting all (selling) options" to try to quiet us down. I'm too emotionally vulnerable and too distrusting of NCsoft to give up my grain of salt until I see more details on this deal.
I just had another thought on this that I'd like to bounce off you guys:
Perhaps NCsoft is trying to save face by finding a way to sell the game without looking like they're caving in to pressure. By saying there were legal complications that made it impossible to sell before the shutdown, they accomplish this.
What do you think?
-
I think most of us will let them off with pretty much any excuse as long as they make it possible for the game to continue under someone else's ownership.
-
I just had another thought on this that I'd like to bounce off you guys:
Perhaps NCsoft is trying to save face by finding a way to sell the game without looking like they're caving in to pressure. By saying there were legal complications that made it impossible to sell before the shutdown, they accomplish this.
What do you think?
At this point I am so furious with them that I frankly do not give a damn about their motivations. I just want the game--and studio!--in the hands of someone who will foster it instead of throwing it under a bus, and will give us CoH2 at some point in the future. If that happens, NCSoft can prosper in spite of itself or die a deserved death, because it will be irrelevant to me.
-
My sentiments, exactly, VV. CoH was never cared for as it should have been in their hands. All the missed marketing potential is just ridiculous. All the accomplishments and world records were treated like "oh, that's nice" by NcSoft when they should have been waving a flag going, "Oh, yeah! We have this! Or. Well, we did it first." Not to mention that people would have paid good money for soundtrack releases. Just a sad mismanaged company, NcSoft. Here's to hoping our game gets a better home.
-
At this point I am so furious with them that I frankly do not give a damn about their motivations. I just want the game--and studio!--in the hands of someone who will foster it instead of throwing it under a bus, and will give us CoH2 at some point in the future. If that happens, NCSoft can prosper in spite of itself or die a deserved death, because it will be irrelevant to me.
I'm at this point, too, really.
I was just kinda curious after reading some of the cultural-perspective threads.
-
Don't be so sure on that... there will always be a few members who will still keep on their current path against NCSoft.
Of course, but that's not really inconsistent with what you quoted ("...most of us...").
I won't go out of my way to say unpleasant things about NCSoft if they let CoH go after it closes. I still won't feel great about them, or what they did to the PS folks, but I won't be tempted to actively badmouth them as a company and I may even try another game that they publish. I've got friends who really enjoy GW2, but as things stand I'll never go anywhere near it. I'm not sure I would if they sold CoH, but I'd at least consider it.
-
I have made no secret of my antipathy for the other products in NCSoftcore's stable. If they release our game to another publisher and would someday come out with something that looks interesting, i would consider it. If they bury our game, the bridge is burned.
-
Fool once, fool me twice...how many times are you going to let them pull the rug out from under you? I feel very, very sorry for Carbine. Wildstar looked like fun.
-
My attitude to the other products in NCSoft's stable is support for the players and the developers. I don't want them to go through what we are going through. NCSoft just profits off of their participation and labor as far as I'm concerned. Hell, there are probably people at NCSoft itself that I'd probably come to care about. But it's the ones in charge that have my ire.
-
As far as I'm concerned, no matter what happens, they did what they did.
They can certainly better their standing in my mind. And I also recognize that my opinion of them holds little import to them and their other products.
However, this whole situation could have been handled so much better... and yeah, it's not like many of us weren't frustrated with the lack of advertising and general cloud of obscurement that was over this wonderful game so many of us loved.
We may have referred to the culprits as "marketing", but, let's face it... it was NCSoft.
You can't undo the past three months.
This game, our community and that studio (especially) didn't deserve the abrupt dumping that NCSoft delivered.
-
ncsoft will not be able to redeem themselves to me
IMO they already screwed up enough that they will never get money from me again, regardless if coh is saved or not
however if coh is saved then it will be a more personal boycott than actively badmouthing them
-
I never said anything about redemption. I said I would consider. I will not be subscribing, to be sure. As it stands, I'm leery of buying points for any game's store, due to a past security issue with CO that wiped my (albeit free) characters. I also keep getting "your account has been locked due to suspicious activity" from Blizzard for an account that hasn't been active for more than a year, so they don't get any more of my money...
To quote Wreck-It Ralph, "One game at a time."
-
Fool once, fool me twice...how many times are you going to let them pull the rug out from under you? I feel very, very sorry for Carbine. Wildstar looked like fun.
Yep it's a pity, it did look like it was going to be a fun game (even despite the recent changes they made to it). One game I was looking forward to six months ago, but no more :(
-
Don't be so sure on that... there will always be a few members who will still keep on their current path against NCSoft.
I will not certainly not be their biggest fan even if the game survives in some capacity. I will probably abandon any crusades against their livelihood, but if anyone ever asks about or mentions NCsoft in my company they'd best be prepared for a tirade. I guess I'm just bitter like that.
-
Well, it's not a superhero game, but I will say this: Star Trek Online is fun. And it has some familiar people working for it. :)
-
I sign up for Star Trek online soon. Was going to check out The Secret World, but it seems not to have a Free to Play feature. That seems odd to me given the style of subject of the secret world having Free to play would help get the curious but not ready to commit a chance to check it out. Like me.
-
I sign up for Star Trek online soon. Was going to check out The Secret World, but it seems not to have a Free to Play feature. That seems odd to me given the style of subject of the secret world having Free to play would help get the curious but not ready to commit a chance to check it out. Like me.
They have a 7-day trial that you can extend by 3 days if you complete 30 missions during your trial (and free cash shop points if you subscribe after the trial)
-
Like I have said before I have played City Of Heroes for 6 years. I started playing COH when I was 39. I have played video games before( Huge Tomb Raider Fan & Half Life) COH but no MMOs. Since COH I have played nothing but COH. Now NCSoft forces me to look else where, and wow so many choices. No NONE of them are COH. If I compare them to COH I will never find anything that won't leave a bad taste in my mouth. I have to judge them on there own merits.
So remember when I talk of these Games COH is Top Notch, Top of the scale without question, and no matter how much I like any of these other games they are not COH.
Anyway Champions Online. Its okay I still need to play it more right now its just okay. DCUO I love but then again thats just me. It helps that I am a huge Superman and DC Comics fan.
Star Trek Online, I like the away missions I hate the space battles. I am a Trekkie from way back so I do like it though.
I have spent a lot of time today playing Star Wars The Old Republic.
I still want to try Conan and Lord Of The Rings and maybe Dungeons and Dragons. I would like to try Secret World, but I don't want to pay for it.
So right now I rate them like this, but this is just me. No one is going to tell you what you are going to like based on what any of us say. You are going to have to spend time playing these, and Judge for yourself.
1. Always City Of Heroes
2. DC Universe Online
3. Star Wars The Old Republic
4. Star Trek Online
5. Champions Online
6. Still need to try The Lord Of The Rings
7. Still need to Try Conan
8. Still need to try Dungeons & Dragons
Again everyone has different feelings on these. The only way for you to find out what you like is to try them try them all. Play each one of them at least through lvl 10.
None of these will ever captivate me like COH did. In the warm weather none of these will do cause I will be on the Harley. I was not an MMO player when I found City Of Heroes. I am still not really an MMO player. Just looking to fill the void at least a little that the passing of COH has left.
-
Do you mean Dungeons & Dragons or Dungeons & Dragons Online? Not the same thing.
-
Online
-
I may try that 10 day Secret World thing. I am doing all this and even subscribed to DCUO all the while having my fingers crossed that this is not another NCSoft plot. Cause if COH comes back all these other games are gona take a back seat. Ii just played with both of my COH accounts for several hours and had way more fun then in any of the before mentioned games.
-
Also on the advertising thing. Every time I would see a commercial or magazine advertisement for World Of Warcraft I would get so pissed cause City Of heroes wasn't being advertised. When I knew if they would there would be so many more players. I was talking about City Of heroes and our situation on DC Universe and they hadn't even heard of COH. Damn makes me mad just talking about it.
-
I've been in CoH since pre-beta.. don't need to say more.
1. Coh
2. TSW - I find their questing system interesting
3. CO - because it's the only superhero world left.. tho I really don't like their combat system
I will not support anything SOE does because of what they did to Star Wars Galaxies. I will support their players as I hope they support us.
I will not support anything else NCSOft does.. ever. They have shown the awful disregard and contempt for their players that I've seen in other MMO developers. I will not give them another dime... ever.
-
To be fair, Lucas Arts is responsible for what happened to Galaxies by asking a ridiculous price to renew the license so that they wouldn't have competition for SWtOR.
-
To be fair, Lucas Arts is responsible for what happened to Galaxies by asking a ridiculous price to renew the license so that they wouldn't have competition for SWtOR.
That was just the final closure though - I think most SWG players would say SOE is to be blame for crippling the game long before any talk of closure, back when they added the "New Game Enhancement".
-
Sounds like they were told to make it work this way...
Like you said cmgangrel it basically was changed to operate like how Knights of the old republic is now. So maybe it was not the studio's choice either, but the Lucas Arts guys saying "Hey we don't like how things are we like to see it operate like this"... and boom New Game Enhancement.
-
Who in their right mind would release a paid expansion just 2 weeks before you release a redo of the game that would basically make most of that content irrelevant?
The same kind of people who would introduce a new powerset a few days before announcing the cancellation of the game? *rimshot*
-
How about the Jack Kirby aura the night before!
-
I believe that was Paragon Studios decision and not NCsofts...
I understand that but it just shows how blindsided the Paragon Studio was.
-
I think putting up yet more images of I24 only a few hours before the shutdown was announced is proof of how blindsided they were. (As if releasing a new powerset and putting up job postings a week before wasn't proof enough)
-
3. CO - because it's the only superhero world left.. tho I really don't like their combat system
Actually, there's still DCU online...
I will not support anything SOE does because of what they did to Star Wars Galaxies. I will support their players as I hope they support us.
Although given this sentence, perhaps its less a matter of overlooking and more a matter of disregarding entirely. Which is understandable given your circumstance.
-
I'm wondering if the Bard, Fansy, has any update for us.... Even better if it should happen to be good news, or even simply a re-iteration that non-pancakes at NCSoft remain sympathetic if thus far powerless to assist us.
-
Pretty sure Fansy said he was moving on, so I imagine he's not checking this site any more.
-
Pretty sure Fansy said he was moving on, so I imagine he's not checking this site any more.
It's kind of weird that he would cause such a commotion, and in such odd language to boot, lol, then vanish.
-
Does anyone really know if the actual person is still here, and only the persona has gone? Can anyone here really say they know the guy? Maybe he's not even a guy... ;)
-
Pretty sure Fansy said he was moving on, so I imagine he's not checking this site any more.
/this, and according to his profile page says he hasnt been logged in since dec 1
-
He is the enigmatic bard after all. :roll:
-
I would not take anything Fansy says all that seriously, although he can be amusing, his claim to fame does not exactly involve exemplary behavior.
I'd love for what he says to be true, but I would not bet a dollar on it.
-
Just going to chime in here quickly about SOE and SWG and Lucas Arts.
It is common for people to toss the blame onto Lucas Arts, but I've never seen any actual proof or evidence of the claims that LA made them do this or that or that LA made ridiculous requests, demands and such (please point me to these tell-all reveals if I have missed them).
In my opinion though, it really doesn't change anything...
If I'm SOE, whatever I do is on ME. SOE is who I was paying and acquiring my service from. The way that they handled things after the launch of that game was ridiculous... the way that they tried to fix it with the Combat Upgrade was not-so-great and the way that they sprung the NGE and completely destroyed what that game was before it... is a monstrous debacle and nothing can ever separate SOE's responsibility from that.
They had power to work things out in their house and handle whatever demands they may or may not have been getting to make things work well.
Shifting blame about how the game was developed/altered/ruined away from the studio that was doing that development is, quite simply, nonsense.
I don't even necessarily believe any bit of the claims that LA made those demands... but, even if they did... have some pancacking guys and integrity in how you respond and how you manage your game.
Cut SOE no slack in this regard.
-
I would not take anything Fansy says all that seriously, although he can be amusing, his claim to fame does not exactly involve exemplary behavior.
I'd love for what he says to be true, but I would not bet a dollar on it.
most of what he has said was confirmed by mercedes lackey as well, although personally i didnt really take him fully seriously either and his writing was annoyingly hard to understand
-
That was just the final closure though - I think most SWG players would say SOE is to be blame for crippling the game long before any talk of closure, back when they added the "New Game Enhancement".
Equally unfair, as the NGE was most likely caused by another "OMGZ ITS STAR WARS AND NOT BEATING WOW!" tantrum by LA.
And... if SOE had full ownership of the IP, SWG would still be alive today.
And frankly if I'm not mistaken, both of SOE's biggest gaming disasters were games based on licensed IP's. That's probably not just a coincidence.
-
And... if SOE had full ownership of the IP, SWG would still be alive today.
And frankly if I'm not mistaken, both of SOE's biggest gaming disasters were games based on licensed IP's. That's probably not just a coincidence.
Developers tend not to ruin games that often, compared to the publishers.
For example: EA ruined Battlefield by making it copy Call of Duty. Ubisoft ruined Tom Clancy titles by 'appealing to the main market' rather than focusing on tactical shooters. LucasArts ruined SWG, and cancelled Battlefront 3. Blizzard released Diablo 3 with bad issues. Etc...
-
Umm So the Bard left the day after . . sounds and feels kinda fishy . . wonder if the Bard is now busy off in other NCsoft game community singing songs of wait and see.
-
Now now, let's not distrust the Bard. He's as weird as a snowstorm in July but I don't think anyone with that kind of whimsy can be bad.
...besides, trying to talk like that was fun, in a drunk-without-booze sorta way.
-
in a drunk-without-booze sorta way.
As someone from the Pinnacle server, I don't know if that is even legal.
-
Besides, booze kinda made it easier to understand. ;)
-
Umm So the Bard left the day after . . sounds and feels kinda fishy . . wonder if the Bard is now busy off in other NCsoft game community singing songs of wait and see.
Fansy came over here at the personal request of Matt Miller (Positron) and I believe was vouched for by Tony. I can guarantee you he got us some very critical press notice, visibility, and patronage at a crucial stage, because I saw it at work. Only one of his schemes didn't pan out.
No, he's a good bloke. He did what he could for us, working all of the contacts he made back in his days of notoriety, and I am damn grateful for it.
-
Fansy came over here at the personal request of Matt Miller (Positron) and I believe was vouched for by Tony. I can guarantee you he got us some very critical press notice, visibility, and patronage at a crucial stage, because I saw it at work. Only one of his schemes didn't pan out.
No, he's a good bloke. He did what he could for us, working all of the contacts he made back in his days of notoriety, and I am damn grateful for it.
I stand behind VV on this. Fansy was one of us...just from a different era.
-
Ok I'll accept what you all say. I just feel NCsoftcore would have NO problem with feeding us miss info to mute us. And with NO word since from any party but our self's. I'm feeling rather set out to dry.