Yeah definitely not the response I was hoping for :(
So it looks like Plan A is down the tubes officially now.
So basically this means the game is dead.
Looks like my last hoorah will be on 10/20/2012 then when I do the Extra Life campaign. I will continue to try to get sponsors because Children's Miracle Network is an awesome cause...and it looks like 10/20 will be the last time my in game friends and I will get together.
I have no desire to be a part of plan Z or anything like that. I wanted the game to continue; even if it was on a skeleton crew of designers etc...damn it I wanted Issue 24.
To further clarify, I consider "giving up" to be "doing something stupid." >.> Knock it off until we hear from Brian. :PDelurking to approve of this message.
Yeap.My thoughts exactly.
Nobody do anything stupid until we hear from Brian Clayton's group and TonyV.
"Exhausted options" really makes no sense in the business world. It 'sounds' like there's an attempt to get more investors, so why is NC saying "No" now, instead of waiting?
"Exhausted options" really makes no sense in the business world. It 'sounds' like there's an attempt to get more investors, so why is NC saying "No" now, instead of waiting?
"Exhausted options" really makes no sense in the business world. It 'sounds' like there's an attempt to get more investors, so why is NC saying "No" now, instead of waiting?This is what I find most curious, but for the flipside of that same reason.
To further clarify, I consider "giving up" to be "doing something stupid." >.> Knock it off until we hear from Brian. :P
"Exhausted options" really makes no sense in the business world. It 'sounds' like there's an attempt to get more investors, so why is NC saying "No" now, instead of waiting?It indeed makes no sense. I know they have failed to even respond to some interest, which says that no, not all options are exhausted.
It indeed makes no sense. I know they have failed to even respond to some interest, which says that no, not all options are exhausted.I can understand if there are hurdles involving the account servers or whatever else, but if they're not willing to even enter into negotiations with other parties, they're not even trying.
I can understand if there are hurdles involving the account servers or whatever else, but if they're not willing to even enter into negotiations with other parties, they're not even trying.
If we want to change the messages that's going to be circulating after this, though, we'll need one of those "other parties" to be willing to go public. Very public, in business and gaming news.Unfortunately I am not a member of one of those parties (my bank account has a resounding $21 in it), or I would be making it as public as humanly possible.
...Third time is the charm! ;)
No amount of petition signature or articles will make NCSoft change their minds. They have made their decision twice now...so be it.
I'd like the bidder/s to go public with just how much they were offering - it'd really help to keep the pressure on NCSoft if we could publicize what they were turning down in exchange for something that they were going to just throw away.That'd be nice, yeah. Would there be any issues with NDAs or otherwise that could stop this from happening?
We've exhausted all options(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3qCSaNCAAErkE6.png:thumb) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A3qCSaNCAAErkE6.png)
They're dealing with a PR shit storm and maybe the hurricane needs to be bumped up a category 8)
Again.I quite like the discussion that's going on, myself. It gets me all fired up, which in turn will get others fired up, which means that eventually the whole world will be on fire. Then what will NCsoft do? :P
Wait for word from Brian and TonyV.
I quite like the discussion that's going on, myself. It gets me all fired up, which in turn will get others fired up, which means that eventually the whole world will be on fire. Then what will NCsoft do? :P
It would be ironic if a PR move intended to shut down the "save COH" movement wound up catalyzing it.
Just sayin' :)
I don't get the impression its intended to do even that. I get the impression they felt the need to acknowledge the player response, so they waited what they felt was an appropriate amount of time and then cranked out a generic "we hear you" message.With the generic "you're doomed hero, you have no chance to win" taunt too.
These are standard demoralization tactics.And the result is a sudden influx of new voices speaking up on the forums here.
Seriously doesn't the bidder realize the players like us would be willing to add money to the bid if only to save the game? I damn well would who else would?In fact, e wouln't add to it, we would repay it.
With the generic "you're doomed hero, you have no chance to win" taunt too.
Monologuing villains NEVER win against the heroes.Hell no they don't !
To be fair to NCoft, it would be pretty mentally exhausting to turn down money in exchange for somethimg that you intending to just throw away.Win.
Let's recognize this announcement for what it is: We've fooled them into monologuing.This is EXACTLY what I thought of. Favorite movie, haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBIMQxsJb_s&t=1m25s
Monologuing villains NEVER win against the heroes.
This is EXACTLY what I thought of. Favorite movie, haha.
Now let's get to the part where their cape gets stuck in a turbine ;)
I know I'd pitch in. I know if a little indie company wanted the IP, and said "NCsoft wants $X we only can afford $Y" You bet your freeking britches this community would raise the remainder! Look how fast we raised cash for the devs dinner!
Who says we have to cover ALL of it? Get a publisher willing to pony up a good chunk of it, then we put in the rest to pad it. Really.
(btw I've been getting my Extra Life link out there.. not just to CoH players)
Let's recognize this announcement for what it is: We've fooled them into monologuing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBIMQxsJb_s&t=1m25s
Which is my point. If every poster on these forums who wasn't participating gave their monthly sub for Extra Life... we would be doing much better. Heck I have donated $24 ($12 to 2 people) just to help out some. I am finding people are all WOOHOO on the forums etc, but when it comes to actually supporting CoH with their wallets; not so much; which is why a fund raising of CoH players is not something I would consider feasible; especially in LARGE amounts of money.Can't speak for others, but I was waiting to see my refund from NCsoft posted to my online credit card statement. It showed up yesterday. Haven't had time yet to make a donation yet today.
This is my second post, after just (finally) registering, instead of just reading and following what's been going on.
This announcement INFURIATES me! Such a blatant PR ploy to shut everyone up! It's not even saying anything NEW! Aug 31: "we're shutting down the game." Oct. 2: "really, we're shutting down the game."
And the result is a sudden influx of new voices speaking up on the forums here.
I'd say their ploy has backfired. 8)
Welcome!
This is my second post, after just (finally) registering, instead of just reading and following what's been going on.
This announcement INFURIATES me! Such a blatant PR ploy to shut everyone up! It's not even saying anything NEW! Aug 31: "we're shutting down the game." Oct. 2: "really, we're shutting down the game."
Which is my point. If every poster on these forums who wasn't participating gave their monthly sub for Extra Life... we would be doing much better. Heck I have donated $24 ($12 to 2 people) just to help out some. I am finding people are all WOOHOO on the forums etc, but when it comes to actually supporting CoH with their wallets; not so much; which is why a fund raising of CoH players is not something I would consider feasible; especially in LARGE amounts of money.
Can't speak for others, but I was waiting to see my refund from NCsoft posted to my online credit card statement. It showed up yesterday. Haven't had time yet to make a donation yet today.
Hm. Falling stock prices.
Nah. As amusing as the thought is, even fallen like that, there's no way this community could simply buy up a share to compare with Nexon's.
Pity.
Has Tony had a comment on this?No, not yet. I imagine we'll get a post about it soon though.
The good point is that it proves were ARE making ourselves felt. They wouldn't send that message unless we were having an effect.
Sorry I am just frustrated with the Extra Life campaign atm (and then the announcement made my frustration that much worse).It seemed off to a good start and then kinda slowed to a stop... =/
Took 3 hours to raise money for the devs dinner.
In a week we can't even raise that for a charity to help children with cancer etc.
Not only is CMN a GREAT cause, but it also shows that CoH players are people trying to help their local children's hospitals even while facing the end of their virtual world. A great cause with great publicity and it sits stagnate.. that is my frustration :(
I thought for sure the Extra Life campaign would have easily been to $3,000 or higher by now :(
So far my friends that are signed up have either donated to themselves or I donated to them... at this rate I am thinking of just letting the donations stand and not actually doing the campaign. It's quite disheartening actually to think we have a chance to do a lot of good for children, but no one wants to support us.
Sorry for being Debbie Downer...
Oh I've been supporting the movement. Just with this announcement I felt the need to speak up and try to do a little damage control. They want us to shut up, and the best way to do that is to just tell us its over. And most likely yeah, this will cost us a few people, especially when it gets out mainstream, which it will. But we still have two months to go until lights out, and even THAT doesn't mark the end. They haven't exhausted their options. But they know that no one they are talking to can say anything to the contrary, so all we have is their word. Which personally, I ain't buyin'.
And some of us are waiting for our paychecks so we can donate to Extra Life. I'm sorry that those of us who -aren't- getting refunds from NCSoft have to wait a little for extra cash. I'm ever so sorry that I can't say "screw paying for gas this week" and donate right this second for you.*relax*
And some of us are waiting for our paychecks so we can donate to Extra Life. I'm sorry that those of us who -aren't- getting refunds from NCSoft have to wait a little for extra cash. I'm ever so sorry that I can't say "screw paying for gas this week" and donate right this second for you.Easy easy easy. His frustration is understandable, and I don't think he has it out for anyone. If you're going to donate, that's great. I really don't think anyone's going to fault you for needing to wait. It's those who have not and will not donate that are at issue.
Why can no one say anything to the contrary? Is the NDA carried forward? If there is no deal, there should be nothing gagging anyone who was at the table. Bearing in mind that I'm a techy, not a lawyer or business person.Some of those at the table, Hitstreak for example, still have their jobs with NCsoft. I'd imagine that the NDA could be extrapolated to cover negotiations, given it concerns City of Heroes and the decision to shut it down. I don't know the details (obviously) though.
(first post)And another one stands up! Welcome!
Why can no one say anything to the contrary? Is the NDA carried forward? If there is no deal, there should be nothing gagging anyone who was at the table. Bearing in mind that I'm a techy, not a lawyer or business person.
And another one stands up! Welcome!Indeed, a warm welcome to no hero!
But no one's talking. Which either means that yes, negotiations are over and the NDA is carried forward, or that negotions are still ongoing and the NDA is in full effect. In the first case, what they are saying is true. In the second, they are just trying to shut us up. Considering it has only been a month, I really don't see everything having been exhausted yet.
No, not yet. I imagine we'll get a post about it soon though.
This is my reply to NCSoft - They will never see another (https://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd369/IBurntTheToast/UninstallGuildWars2.jpg)penny from me:So... you're uninstalling Guild Wars, a game you already paid for, thus giving them money for a service that costs them nothing to provide? I say play the hell out of it 24/7 without paying a dime extra. Consume server resources.
Sorry I am just frustrated with the Extra Life campaign atm (and then the announcement made my frustration that much worse).
Took 3 hours to raise money for the devs dinner.
In a week we can't even raise that for a charity to help children with cancer etc.
Not only is CMN a GREAT cause, but it also shows that CoH players are people trying to help their local children's hospitals even while facing the end of their virtual world. A great cause with great publicity and it sits stagnate.. that is my frustration :(
I thought for sure the Extra Life campaign would have easily been to $3,000 or higher by now :(
So far my friends that are signed up have either donated to themselves or I donated to them... at this rate I am thinking of just letting the donations stand and not actually doing the campaign. It's quite disheartening actually to think we have a chance to do a lot of good for children, but no one wants to support us.
Sorry for being Debbie Downer...
i agree that this is standard PR crap to make it look like they are responding to our actions
So... you're uninstalling Guild Wars, a game you already paid for, thus giving them money for a service that costs them nothing to provide? I say play the hell out of it 24/7 without paying a dime extra. Consume server resources.
...or were you going to uninstall it, download it again, uninstall it again, etc, etc.... driving up their bandwidth costs? That might work as well... *
* I do not encourage malicious attacks like this- solo, organized, or part of a botnet storm. As others have said, wait for word from the official parties and stay as positive.
No I uninstalled it because I have no intentions of playing it.The greastest taunt you could show them is playing the hell of GW2 while not giving in the micro transaction. That's will not expand the turnover, but will surely up the expanses.
Sure they got my money for the game, but they will never see any money from me on their micro-transactions which I tend to spend a lot of (Well I did in CoH anyways). And as well all know after the initial boom of box sales...micro transactions are what will be supplying GW2 with a lot of it's revenue.
I know I am just one person, but this one person will not be feeding the MMO Killer that is NCSoft.
So... you're uninstalling Guild Wars, a game you already paid for, thus giving them money for a service that costs them nothing to provide? I say play the hell out of it 24/7 without paying a dime extra. Consume server resources.
This really stinks. How can a company be so callus and uncaring about a game that has been running so long? The whole shut down from the first announcement stinks badly of being poorly managed and without a thought about the players feelings.A corporation has no feelings, so it can only be callus. That being said, the decisions make no sense from a business perspective. They are in effect throwing money away, due to some non-corporate ideology. This is not good for their stockholders.
A corporation has no feelings, so it can only be callus. That being said, the decisions make no sense from a business perspective. They are in effect throwing money away, due to some non-corporate ideology. This is not good for their stockholders.
NCsoft is good at throwing money away, in fact, that's about all they're good at. Perhaps we should appeal to their stockholders then?That was one of the things that crossed my mind as well.
This is my thoughts on it. If you've already bought it, play it. Don't give them your money for nothing. Buying anything additional from them on the other hand is a different story. The more people they have playing without buying from the in game store the better.
Have we heard anything from Brian Clayton? (Not just on this topic, but ANYTHING?)
Is there even really a Brian Clayton? I keep hearing about this guy but I've never seen a direct statement from him, or even a photo. He's like the Keyser Soze of online gaming.Haha, seriously. I believe he is/was the general manager of Paragon Studios.
Is there even really a Brian Clayton? I keep hearing about this guy but I've never seen a direct statement from him, or even a photo. He's like the Keyser Soze of online gaming.
They do something like this whenever we're all fiesty. We were starting to flag a little and then Tim's video got us all fired up again (and we were all 'YAY LETS FIGHT GUYS'), and they announced the refunds and the sunset schedule of events and everyone was all like '..oh. Doooom.'
Now we're all Fansied up and getting a bunch of new interest and they've issued this.
*rise to the challenge*
Is there even really a Brian Clayton? I keep hearing about this guy but I've never seen a direct statement from him, or even a photo. He's like the Keyser Soze of online gaming.Does that mean we'll eventually discover Tony IS Brian? :P
Does that mean we'll eventually discover Tony IS Brian? :P
That's just silly. One wears glasses. The other doesn't.
Heck we can't even get people to donate to the Extra Life Campaign which is sitting at less than $1,000 now after a week hehe.I want to point out that I had already donated to a separate Extra Life campaign before anyone set up the City one. And I cannot afford to donate to more than one at the level at which I donated. I'm pretty sure there are many more like me who already had their donation funds set aside for something else well before this was announced.
*rise to the challenge*
/me pounds chest, activating Integrated Healing
*activates Clarion*
/me pounds chest, activating Integrated Healing
That part about "ensuring its reputation and the memories we share" sounds like they don't want to sell the studio or rights. The game's reputation is stellar, as is Paragon's, it's NCsoft's reputation that is taking a beating because of this. And they know it. And "end on a high note"?!? THIS is a high note? No way they believe that or think that; as others noted, it sounds like this is supposed to quiet us. Keep fighting the good fight; this will not daunt me in the slightest.
#SaveCOH
This is my thoughts on it. If you've already bought it, play it. Don't give them your money for nothing. Buying anything additional from them on the other hand is a different story. The more people they have playing without buying from the in game store the better.
City of Heroes has a special place in all of our hearts, and we want to ensure its reputation and the memories we share for the game end on a high note.
Sure, we can do that. We can ensure the GAME'S REPUTATION ends on a high note. But we certainly don't share the same MEMORIES of the game as NCSoft do. If they shared our memories they wouldn't be closing the game in the first place.
I have the greatest respect for the game, and as the Russians say, "If we have to die, let us die with music". CoH deserves that 'high note'.
However, I have no respect for the company. Haven't had since they killed Tabula Rasa before my eyes.
So if NCSoft want us to ensure that their memories end on a high note? Nope, sorry - I'm afraid that I cannot ensure.
Speaking of Richard Garriott, anyone ever think to try and contact him for support?
I have a couple of better-than-acquaintance-not-quite-good-friends of Garriott trying to get some time to talk to him about this.
Brian Clayton (PICTURE in ThorsAssassin's blog post about the dev dinner) is the studio manager of Formerly-Known-As Paragon. I have generally heard from him on Sunday night. I did not hear from him this Sunday, so I have nothing to tell you.
This, from my husband Larry Dixon however:
Larry Dixon: *shrug* It's as "real" as anything else NCsoft says or does. That'll flip if they want it to. What it *is* is an admission that they've noticed enough to respond to it "on company letterhead." Its face value is meaningless.
The REAL takeaway from this is "Hey this is starting to hurt, stop it guys!" If the revival efforts meant nothing, NCsoft would not post what amounts to "Elvis has left the building." And that is all that is. They want the negative attention to stop. That is an official attempt at deflection. Or, in political terms, an "Un-Answer."
It appears to be a response but actually accomplishes nothing except silence those who weren't very into it. Like I say, what it says is irrelevant; the thing to take notice of is that it was put there at all. And that means time to step it up because the other fighter just staggered.
If the "Save CoH/We love Paragon" etc. efforts were ineffective, we'd never have seen such a statement. The hidden meaning of that note is that it has dawned on somebody that this is developing into "anti-NCsoft," not "Save-CoH," so they issued a mollifying statement with a lot of buttonpushing feel-warm cozy buttons about how special what they just murdered was to them.
Now they reap the mistrust they sowed, they can see the coverage increase, the caution against them and the players taking their money away in droves, and we can look them steely in the eyes and reply "Too bad. It's just business. Isn't it."
The "exhausted all options" is bizspeak for "We didn't get what we wanted, so we stopped bothering to find solutions." Businesspeople who truly WANT a result ALWAYS find a way, they never "exhaust all options." So right there is an admission from NCsoft that they're very bad businesspeople. Most certainly unimaginative and inflexible.
Shortest form: As a strategist, the hits are being felt by NCsoft, and they've barely begun.
Second message: This is the murderer issuing an official statement that they "really tried hard" not kill what they had a choice about murdering, and hoping that "Oh they loved it like I did, they're really sorry!" should be your takeaway from that and that should make EVERYTHING just fine, right?
I don't take "We loved it too!" as anything but an insult to our intelligence.
...
I don't take "We loved it too!" as anything but an insult to our intelligence.
By the way, the #MMOKiller tag should really be #GameKiller - it carries more weight with non-gamers who mightn't know what MMO meant.A valid point - especially as I've seen the actual phrase "MMO Killer" used in the past to refer to a (usually overhyped) game as being a potential Warcraft killer
Game = fun/entertainemnt, so adding "Killer" to that makes for a much clearer message - NCSoft kills fun.
By the way, the #MMOKiller tag should really be #GameKiller - it carries mroe weirght with non-gamers who mightn't know what MMO meant.
Game = fun/entertainemnt, so adding "Killer" to that makes for a much clearer message - NCSoft kills fun.
By the way, the #MMOKiller tag should really be #GameKiller - it carries more weirght with non-gamers who mightn't know what MMO meant.Nice. I'm willing to give it a shot. I've been staying away from Twitter, because I normally stay away from Twitter. I'm looking at changing that.
Game = fun/entertainment, so adding "Killer" to that makes for a much clearer message - NCSoft kills fun.
By the way, the #MMOKiller tag should really be #GameKiller - it carries more weirght with non-gamers who mightn't know what MMO meant.
Game = fun/entertainemnt, so adding "Killer" to that makes for a much clearer message - NCSoft kills fun.
I advice #GameKiller, but not #Anti-NCSoft. The second one makes us look kinda like whining kids throwing hate directly at a group, because the tag calls them out -by- -name-. #GameKiller is a little less direct. Less aggressive.
I think we can all conclude that this is the official NCSoft spokes-creature.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net%2F80450F%2F983thesnake.com%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F01%2FPants-On-Fire-Mike-Licht-NotionsCapitalDOTcom-Flickr.jpg)
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/news/response-to-city-of-heroes-player-and-fan-suggestions.html
To summarize:
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=theintelhub.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2FNuke-Ocean-2.png)
Honesty, or another teargas attempt to quiet the rioters?
This is my reply to NCSoft - They will never see another (https://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd369/IBurntTheToast/UninstallGuildWars2.jpg)penny from me:
Yes this appears to be their large wooden rabbit. Time to man the catapults and throw it back at them and force them to build a large wooden badger...
We've been nice-nice so far. I suggest it's time to get serious and jeopardize some livelihoods.
Speaking of Richard Garriott, anyone ever think to try and contact him for support?I may have very, very quietly suggested that he should be consulted on how best to deal with NCsoft since he has experience with this sort of thing. I may have also suggested that we shouldn't mention having contacted him if we did given the fact that NCsoft might immediately slam the door. :)
I may have very, very quietly suggested that he should be consulted on how best to deal with NCsoft since he has experience with this sort of thing. I may have also suggested that we shouldn't mention having contacted him if we did given the fact that NCsoft might immediately slam the door. :)
I was actually looking for this, but I gave up after going three pages worth of threads from the last page. Any advice he gives should be kept nameless.You won't find it. I didn't make the suggestion out in the open. :)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6187-Why-Boycotts-Fail-Where-Whining-Tantrums-Win
To everyone that is saying we should boycott NCsoft...
Honestly, that would be your choice... and I would not begrudge you that.
However, I already have Guild Wars 2. I have played it. Its a very good game that has finally filled my desire for a fantasy MMO that didn't feel as grindy as Aion or as childish as WoW (probably more thanks to their gaming communities...)
When the announcement came that NCsoft was killing CoH, my first, gut reaction was to uninstall GW2, throw a big middle-finger at NCsoft, give up on online gaming...
But then, a friend of mine showed me this... (warning, the language is NSFW, but I believe that the message being said here must be heard by more people...)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6187-Why-Boycotts-Fail-Where-Whining-Tantrums-Win (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6187-Why-Boycotts-Fail-Where-Whining-Tantrums-Win)
I do kinda feel that NC is on the verge of pulling an EA-level blunder. And EA wasn't lost for customers when their stocks took a nosedive either. But they still earned that "worst company of 2011" award.
Do not mistake this for the end, my friends. There is no way NCsoft has exhausted everything they can do. That's a bold-faced lie. However, we still don't know exactly what it means. I take it to mean one of a couple things:
1) The current negotiations have fallen through. This does not mean that future negotiations are doomed to fail, however.
2) They've exhausted ideas that they are willing to entertain. In other words, we need to make them willing to entertain more drastic or difficult measures.
3) They're really, really desperate to get us to back off. This has more of a conspiracy theory air to it, but it's a possibility considering we've forced multiple blinks.
However, until we know more (probably from Hitstreak or Mr. Clayton) this is all speculation. But the take home message is: WE ARE NOT BEATEN YET.
Love you guys, we'll get through it.
But then, a friend of mine showed me this... (warning, the language is NSFW, but I believe that the message being said here must be heard by more people...)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6187-Why-Boycotts-Fail-Where-Whining-Tantrums-Win
Well here is something that occurred to me. It will take some research....but in most cultures there is a token, an object or something of the sort, that indicates that you have committed an act of such shame and cowardice that you really should consider going home and drowning yourself. In the West it is a white feather--white feathers were given to young men in WWI who did not enlist, very often by young women. I am sure there is something similar in Korean culture.
Now imagine dozens, hundreds of such tokens sent to NCSoft...attached to "save CoH" cards.
That is great, Eldershinjo. He's absolutely right. We'll get further by doing more bitching and whining than we will by just 'not buying things.' Now to go think about how to bitch and whine in the most PR-inconvenient way for NCSoft possible. . .
It's not quite as general as that, and it may be something that could seriously backfire. It's very late for me, so lemme revisit this in the morning and report back. (caviat: NOT an expert, just done a lot of research into early 20th century Asian history.)
It all started in 1998 with Lineage. We delighted Lineage players with a harmony of great story, breathtaking visuals, and fantastic sound design. Back then, we set out to create a ground-breaking and totally engaging customer experience. That is still our objective.
Today we continue that commitment to quality and innovation. Just over a decade after our founding, we are a global presence in games. We constantly push the boundaries of game design, technology, and services. So not that long ago we were a new upstart competitor. But today with great games like Aion, City of Heroes, and Guild Wars under our belt, we now set the standard for the industry.
Moving forward, we envision new ways to use Internet technologies to entertain, delight, and bring people together. This means new products, reaching more customers, around the world. The future is bright, indeed. We hope you have enjoyed playing our games. We thank you for your support as we innovate and grow. Thank you.
Taek Jin Kim
Chief Executive Officer NCSOFT Corporation
Anyone know anyone at Chicago's Oriental Institute? Or just in Chicago? They are usually really good at answering questions like this over the phone.So the accuracy on this might be a little shaky... but I have reason to believe it relatively truthful.
I'll assume you are actually serious here and go with this...
We /have/ been 'bitching and whining' in our own way... Namely by following TonyV and loudly showing our support for the game and the Developers.
the fact that they took the time to write us that BS letter saying 'We loved the game' and 'We exhausted our options' shows that they have heard us. Now, we must continue to be vocal and keep giving them a headache from all our 'Bitching and whining.'
Shouldn't be too hard for some people, I heard enough of it when the game was running alive and well...
So the accuracy on this might be a little shaky... but I have reason to believe it relatively truthful.
My boyfriend is a Japanese Studies minor who recently learned about what gifts to give to your Japanese friend when going over to their house. Conversely, what not to give. Knives and scissors, and anything sharp, are a HUGE no-no because they signify "cutting off the relationship". Similarly, you do not give gifts in sets of four (because apparently that denotes death).
Japan is NOT Korea, obviously. I am not grouping two separate Asian cultures together. However, a comprehensive Google search reveals that many of these things (read: all the ones I listed) are in fact the same in South Korean culture. So I have reason to believe that my search-fu denotes at least some truth, given the information my boyfriend received came from someone who is from Japan and the stuff I found matches his lesson almost word-for-word.
I disagree. CoH players should know better than any the value of the MMO's community. So unless you're prepared to be a rotten apple in their barrel, you are adding value to their game simply by playing it.
When they use the the word exhausted in their response, my first thought is too bad we can't send them some Enriche energy drink. So that they will feel refreshed and get back to the negotiating table 8)
What the most popular Korean energy drink and can we get it here in the US or in Europe? Send that to them with a nice polite letter saying, I'm really sad to hear you're so exhausted. Perhaps this will help you in your efforts to get back to negotiating.*imagines the FourLoco rush*
If we can't get their most popular energy drink then we send them the best known one from whichever country we reside in.
My centre is giving way, my right is retreating, situation excellent, I am attacking. - Ferdinand Foch.
Sound familiar?
Why yes! Yes it does!
Sounds like every scrapper I've ever met in this game. Including me. :D
Please consider a number of implications.Not after only 33 days. Negotations can take months to settle on a price. No price has even been introduced so I understand, and investment groups have been ignored. If they set a price, they did so without ever offering it to those able to meet it.
Either the letter was a complete lie, there is a lack of buyers, or, I suspect, they set such a price that no buyers could justify it because they do not want a sale but just an excuse.
You should take a lot of effort to NOT BE BAD GUYS. The letter may actually be a way to cover their position in the media and make any protests sound unreasonable to others.
Not after only 33 days. Negotations can take months to settle on a price. No price has even been introduced so I understand, and investment groups have been ignored. If they set a price, they did so without ever offering it to those able to meet it.
/me spittakes33. That is how many days since the announcement.
Wait, HOW many days?
33. That is how many days since the announcement.
...and nobody finds that number auspicious?Well, yes. Obviously. But even if they did do it on purpose, what would it possibly mean? That they -really- hate us?
Well, yes. Obviously. But even if they did do it on purpose, what would it possibly mean? That they -really- hate us?
So... you're uninstalling Guild Wars, a game you already paid for, thus giving them money for a service that costs them nothing to provide? I say play the hell out of it 24/7 without paying a dime extra. Consume server resources.
...or were you going to uninstall it, download it again, uninstall it again, etc, etc.... driving up their bandwidth costs? That might work as well... *
* I do not encourage malicious attacks like this- solo, organized, or part of a botnet storm. As others have said, wait for word from the official parties and stay as positive.
NCSoft,
We wanted to let you know that your message has been heard and your concerns have been taken into serious considertion. We appreciate your response and acknowledgement of our emails, notes and packages we've sent in support of the game. Closing Paragon Studios and shutting down City of Heroes should not have been easy. Bad decisions never should be, and this was a monumentally bad decision. Bad for your creative teams, who now operate under the uncertainty of an overseer that doesn't seem rational or consistent. Bad for your shareholders, who have been deprived a positive revenue source, both current and future. Bad for your players, who have entrusted you with the custodianship of the social network. Bad for your reputation, which continues to be tarnished by your demonstrated lack of the consistent and stable behavior a successful service provider must offer. Bad for the individual players who have brought our own creations to life within this online world. You have been given options that would dissolve your relationship with City of Heroes and Paragon Studios in a way that preserves that community, reassembles as much of the development team as possible, leaves our creative contributions intact, and possibly even provides compensation for your shareholders. You have continued to make bad decisions by rejecting those options.
You say your options are exhausted.
We have not exhausted all our options. We will provide opportunities to save yourselves from your own folly. We will celebrate the work of the development studio you so abruptly dissolved. We will demonstrate the value and strength of the community you are working to destroy. Should NCSoft come around and find an amicable resolution, we will recognize the merits of your actions. Should you not, we will warn everyone we know everywhere we go of the hazards of placing any trust in NCSoft, protecting others as best we can.
We are heroes. This is what we do.
(at least, this is what I was going to post.... not sure if I should use TonyV's signature line.)
To everyone that is saying we should boycott NCsoft...I'm not suggesting boycotting them, by all means, if you want to buy their products do so. However, I may buy one or three items of their biggest competitors products to show my displeasure. With the biggest shopping season OF THE YEAR approaching, I would think the PR nightmare of being the Grinch that stole Christmas isn't going to do their bottom line any good.
Anyone know anyone at Chicago's Oriental Institute? Or just in Chicago? They are usually really good at answering questions like this over the phone.
The University of Chicago's Oriental Institute is an archeology museum focused on the ancient Middle-East (Egypt, Mesopotamia). I don't think they could help us.
Business card, with a six-sided die in each corner, each with 4 pips showing.
In red ink, the text on the card reads, "NCSoft.\n The Game Killer has taken the Left-Hand Path."
Better still if somebody can re-arrange the text into a haiku. Or, if Korea has a similarly iconic poetic form, better still in that form.
I'm guessing option #3...they've likely gone into panic mode, not anticipating the entirely negative reactions they've been getting...and they now know just how big a hornet's nest they've stirred up.... :D
It seems that the key here is that they have, in fact, told what they see as a little white lie in order to try and restore Kibun between us and them.
But wouldn't that be the reason to have a PR Firm, to navigate the cultural differences.
Sorry, but I'm calling BS on the cultural differences. I would understand it being more of a factor if they strictly operated in Korea, but to do business internationally they would know other countries don't play by their cultural rules. In the end it's about money. Always has.
"Your understanding and hearing is appreciated, and we feel your great pain at the sorrow you feel for the harm your actions have caused. In order to spare you further turmoil, let us join in brotherhood with no secrets between us that we might find a solution. We understand that you're exhausted, so allow our energy to sustain you as we find the harmonious solution we all doubtless desire. Your wisdom can surely find it, if you but take of our energy and innovation. We are all distressed to see you fail in this beloved goal you have set. Let us assure that you do, instead, succeed."
That seems to be a fair message to me. Would anyone else have an opinion?
Well here is something that occurred to me. It will take some research....but in most cultures there is a token, an object or something of the sort, that indicates that you have committed an act of such shame and cowardice that you really should consider going home and drowning yourself. In the West it is a white feather--white feathers were given to young men in WWI who did not enlist, very often by young women. I am sure there is something similar in Korean culture.
Now imagine dozens, hundreds of such tokens sent to NCSoft...attached to "save CoH" cards.
It seems that the key here is that they have, in fact, told what they see as a little white lie in order to try and restore Kibun between us and them.
The problem is that they've really gone about it the wrong way.
I call BS on cultural differences too. NCsoft has an American PR team. This isn't about cultural differences, this is about them not giving a darn about the players.
While many corporations in the West do view the customer as a funding base, if any saw the kind of reaction we're giving NCSoft, they would be playing a much more active PR game. If dead-set on killing CoH no matter what, they'd be working very, very hard to spin it into the ground and spin us with every carrot, stick, and trick they could think of, because they'd recognize that, "children" or not, this is a disaster for their future.
I agree that there are cultural differences-- this is is a documented fact.
What I don't agree with is that this is an insurmountable problem. NCSoft is a business, and even if they don't value us as a customer base, they have to value us as a potential commodity-- a salable item someone else WILL value. I think the whole "we can't reach an agreement" thing is smoke an mirrors designed to amp up the offering price as possible (and I take some small amount of pleasure in the fact that it will probably cost NCSoft about $60 to translate "Smoke and mirrors" into a culturally appropriated phrase).
However, I think that every instance where we make ourselves public indicates to potential buyers/investors is that yes, there is an established and passionate playerbase here, and that's worth something tangible. Heck, lots of MMORPGs have sunsetted with a less committed players. One that values the game, and actually wants, no, is EAGER, to pay for it. I'm pretty sure that SW:TOR or CO would pay good money for that kind of commitment.
Lastly, there's the matter that you simply don't try to destroy a City of Heroes without expecting those Heroes to fight back.
Why is it that every time NCSoft does something it just makes things worse? What is painfully clear is that they just do not understand how we feel and how to handle this tactfully and politely. Their whole treatment of this has been heavy handed and cavalier. Whatever ultimately happens to CoX this will hurt the company as a whole.
NCSoft absolutely, as a corporate entity, thinks we are a bunch of children. They have showed this contemptuous attitude toward us in everything they have done since Black Friday. To them, we are nothing but sheep to be sheared and it is outrageous that we are daring to threaten to withhold our wool. And to be fair, how many corporations in the West can you name that don't pretty much have the same outlook?
In the words of Captain John Paul Jones (http://quotationsbook.com/quote/15057/)...
So the bass player from Led Zeppelin was a captain? I never knew that. ;D ;D
ROFL...yes, well he was multi-class. :o ;)