Titan Network
Graveyard => Save Paragon Retirees => Save Paragon City! => Topic started by: TimtheEnchanter on September 30, 2012, 06:41:22 PM
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It'll be hard to say for sure, until a new thread gets posted there about something SaveCoH-related, but it appears that there is now a tiny group of users who are derailing SaveCoH threads with aggressive debates about social/political/religious issues, that when the forums had moderators, would've been deleted in a heart-beat. If my fears are correct, and the forums are now running without moderation, we're going to see total anarchy there within a very short time.
And... wow, umm... the word pertaining to an evil forum user gets changed to unicorn? Is there a humorous back story to that?
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It's probably to prevent people from accusing others of being trolls.
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Stuff like this is what makes me upset. To me it is nothing but a tarnish on the community; especially the community doing everything they can to save CoH.
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It's a strange phenomenon, and I saw this happen with SWG before. What seems to happen, is you have some people who play the game who really do see it as 'just a game', but don't share the same passion for it that we do. People who are almost immune to attachment. You don't get any trouble from them for years because they're just doing their thing. Then something like the shutdown announcement happens, the rest of the community goes into an uproar, and then that apathetic group rolls their eyes and starts telling everyone to get a life.
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Overall, I honestly don't think there are players out there that go deliberately peeing in other peoples cereal over there.
On the contrary, we have several self-admitted unicorns over there. Also, there are others who try on the troll hat once in a while but are generally good people.
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It's a strange phenomenon, and I saw this happen with SWG before. What seems to happen, is you have some people who play the game who really do see it as 'just a game', but don't share the same passion for it that we do. People who are almost immune to attachment. You don't get any trouble from them for years because they're just doing their thing. Then something like the shutdown announcement happens, the rest of the community goes into an uproar, and then that apathetic group rolls their eyes and starts telling everyone to get a life.
Immune to attachment? No. Just less attached to physical things.
The biggest reason I'm involved with this fight is that I have friends for whom this game means a hell of a lot, and I don't personally see why it should be shut down.
For me personally, I have a very limited attachment to City of Heroes, that has dwindled over the last year as my life has taken a pretty notable change of direction. I have a lot to do IRL, and a lot of things to spend my time on that don't include playing an MMORPG. I still play video games when I can, but that's nowhere near as often as it used to be. Personally, I've pretty well come to terms with the shut down, as in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really affect me much at all. At the end of the day it is 'just a game'. The community will be there, somewhere else, after the shut down.. and any of your "great friends" you stop having any contact with because the game is no more.. weren't that much of friends.
That's not to say we shouldn't try to save it though, it's just to say that.. people who aren't as up in arms over this as some are just as valid and just as human as anyone else... They probably just have more important things to worry about- jobs, relationships, starting businesses, health problems, etc. Sure, plenty of people here have those things, too.. but it depends on the level of focus theirs needs.
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That's not to say we shouldn't try to save it though, it's just to say that.. people who aren't as up in arms over this as some are just as valid and just as human as anyone else... They probably just have more important things to worry about- jobs, relationships, starting businesses, health problems, etc. Sure, plenty of people here have those things, too.. but it depends on the level of focus theirs needs.
I actually play this game BEACAUSE of some of those things. I can understand what you are geting at, but there are those here that this is much more than 'just a game'. I don't go out much due to personal and family health, and I've always been an introvert to begin with, so I see this more as a social media format that happens to let me fly and shoot fire from my hands.
There is a difference in stating, like you did, that you personally don't have that much invested feelings about the efforts to save the game, but you will give support IN support of friends that does, and saying flatout that it's just stupid to care that much, the game is over, deal with it. That is adding yellow liquid to what was an enjoyable breakfast meal. Saying you don't feel the same but you respect others right to do so is good, applaudable even, not repeatedly stating there isn't any point in trying.
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It'll be hard to say for sure, until a new thread gets posted there about something SaveCoH-related, but it appears that there is now a tiny group of users who are derailing SaveCoH threads with aggressive debates about social/political/religious issues, that when the forums had moderators, would've been deleted in a heart-beat. If my fears are correct, and the forums are now running without moderation, we're going to see total anarchy there within a very short time.
And... wow, umm... the word pertaining to an evil forum user gets changed to unicorn? Is there a humorous back story to that?
Getting drawn into a religious or political discussion on game related forums is never a good idea, whatever your point of view. There are other places for that type of discussion. My advice is to just report the offending post, stick the user on ignore and move on.
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That's not to say we shouldn't try to save it though, it's just to say that.. people who aren't as up in arms over this as some are just as valid and just as human as anyone else... They probably just have more important things to worry about- jobs, relationships, starting businesses, health problems, etc. Sure, plenty of people here have those things, too.. but it depends on the level of focus theirs needs.
If they have more important things to worry about, that's their prerogative. I just don't see why 'little' things can't still be worked for as well as big things. Way too often do I see people using the, "there are more important things" argument as a reason to ridicule what others are trying to accomplish, which is exactly why the threads are being derailed by the discussion of such important issues.
I personally would love to be more of an activist than I am. I want to be able to fight for noble causes. But my location, combined with my financial situation, etc, makes that impossible. I'm a U.S. citizen married to a Canadian, which means that if we were to ever attend an IRL rally that turned ugly, one of us would risk deportation. Additionally, we're not close enough to NYC to make the regularly-scheduled trip there reasonable, but we're close enough that anything important going on all happens there instead of locally. So at least in my case, it's not that I don't care about other things, I'm just not in a position to do much about it. Were it possible, I'd be fighting for the big causes as well as CoH. And who the heck can say how many others are in that same boat? These trolls assume far too much about the individuals who are in this fight.
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Immune to attachment? No. Just less attached to physical things.
The biggest reason I'm involved with this fight is that I have friends for whom this game means a hell of a lot, and I don't personally see why it should be shut down.
For me personally, I have a very limited attachment to City of Heroes, that has dwindled over the last year as my life has taken a pretty notable change of direction.
Are you sure you're not me? Because that's twice in one day you've taken the words out of my mouth. I fight for the community I've built with my friends--that community will go on, and we'll continue to create on other canvases if we must. But this game means a great deal to them...and still, to me.
If they have more important things to worry about, that's their prerogative. I just don't see why 'little' things can't still be worked for as well as big things. Way too often do I see people using the, "there are more important things" argument as a reason to ridicule what others are trying to accomplish, which is exactly why the threads are being derailed by the discussion of such important issues.
I've had to back one of my RL friends down from this argument myself. My logic runs thusly: so long as our means are principled and our desired end isn't evil, what we do here isn't any better or worse a use of our time than working to sustain ourselves physically. It harms no one and we pay for our keep along the way. The analogy to lobbying local legislators to preserve a park is an apt one in this respect: sure, saving a park isn't the most important thing the community could be doing. But is it a bad thing? Besides, who does nothing but crusades for grand humanitarian causes at all times? No one I'd want to be in a room with for more than five minutes, that's for sure. Except for maybe the Dalai Lama. He seems pretty cool.
He conceded the argument when I presented him with those points. I haven't converted him to joining us yet, but he has a lot of things on his plate right now anyway.
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I've had to back one of my RL friends down from this argument myself. My logic runs thusly: so long as our means are principled and our desired end isn't evil, what we do here isn't any better or worse a use of our time than working to sustain ourselves physically. It harms no one and we pay for our keep along the way. The analogy to lobbying local legislators to preserve a park is an apt one in this respect: sure, saving a park isn't the most important thing the community could be doing. But is it a bad thing? Besides, who does nothing but crusades for grand humanitarian causes at all times? No one I'd want to be in a room with for more than five minutes, that's for sure. Except for maybe the Dalai Lama. He seems pretty cool.
He conceded the argument when I presented him with those points. I haven't converted him to joining us yet, but he has a lot of things on his plate right now anyway.
A lot of the time people who use this sort of reasoning aren't doing a lot themselves. In my experience, every time I've heard "shouldn't you be doing something else?" or the like it's a purely judgmental way of saying "I don't understand". Next time y'all run into this, explain why it's important and try not to take it too personally. Usually works.
The friend you describe, however, doesn't seem to be in that boat.
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And... wow, umm... the word pertaining to an evil forum user gets changed to unicorn? Is there a humorous back story to that?
It's to curb some general overuse and reactionary thinking. For every real one, there were several others being jumped on by overzealous people, which is just as harmful as unicorns themselves. Ask Tony for the full details, it was his idea. :P
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It's to curb some general overuse and reactionary thinking. For every real one, there were several others being jumped on by overzealous people, which is just as harmful as unicorns themselves. Ask Tony for the full details, it was his idea. :P
Well yeah I understood why it was done. It was more of a, "How did they arrive at unicorns" question. I got a good chuckle after I posted the thread and saw the altered title.
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I just simply call it (the game what's name shall not be mentioned) and leave it at that, myself.
And yeah, it's gotten extra unicorn-y in there. It's a little bit sad, but I have managed to just... stay out. Well, mostly, a couple of unicorns got a reply here and there, but... It was more of a cathartic thing to reply in the first place than actually tryin' to argue. And... I've found myself just exiting the thread rather than get dragged in. The left turns going on in some of them... yeesh.
Mike
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The analogy to lobbying local legislators to preserve a park is an apt one in this respect: sure, saving a park isn't the most important thing the community could be doing. But is it a bad thing?
This is a great analogy.
Except for maybe the Dalai Lama. He seems pretty cool.
Let me remind you of the pilgrim who asked for an audience with the Dalai Lama.
He was told he must first spend five years in contemplation. After the five years, he was ushered into the Dalai Lama's presence, who said, 'Well, my son, what do you wish to know?' So the pilgrim said, 'I wish to know the meaning of life, father.'
And the Dalai Lama smiled and said, 'Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?'
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For a little historical perspective on why it can be as "important" to fight for the things that enrich your life as well as "the big causes," I suggest reading this Wiki article on the poem and song, "Bread and Roses."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_Roses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_Roses)
Short form takeaway is that if you don't fight for the little things that make your life better, you won't have any life to give to the big things.
Edit: Fixed broken link --TV
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...unicorn, eh? Can't wait to hear the backstory on this one.
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It's to curb some general overuse and reactionary thinking. For every real one, there were several others being jumped on by overzealous people, which is just as harmful as unicorns themselves. Ask Tony for the full details, it was his idea. :P
Yes, yes....But how do you Know she's a Witch?
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Yes, yes....But how do you Know she's a Witch?
Because she floats!
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Because she floats!
...and what else floats?
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...and what else floats?
Bread! Apples! Very small rocks!
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Cider! Great gravy! Cherries!
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Bread! Apples! Very small rocks!
Giant turtles! Poltiicians!
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Churches! Lead!
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A DUCK.
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LOL
All right, this thread has now gotten seriously off-topic!
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A DUCK.
GASP
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I feel bad for the posters who are trying to maintain a sense of community on the official forums. I fail to see how being a complete douche to strangers who are sad...feel better about one's self. I deal with murderers and rapists all day long and the bad part is they show more empathy than some of the posters currently on the official forums.
Oh well... I believe in Karma :) :)
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Personally, I never went to the official forum unless I was having a specific issue. Mostly, I had trouble navigating, if I was just browsing. I still have to try a couple of times before I find the threads that the Devs posted to say goodbye. At the moment, there's more useful and, frankly, promising, information here, and it's easier to find.
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"There are green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
Tony cried, "Close the door because the rain is falling
And we just can't be bothered with no unicorns"
*sung to the Irish Rover's tune made so famous*
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I feel bad for the posters who are trying to maintain a sense of community on the official forums. I fail to see how being a complete douche to strangers who are sad...feel better about one's self. I deal with murderers and rapists all day long and the bad part is they show more empathy than some of the posters currently on the official forums.
Oh well... I believe in Karma :) :)
That's part and parcel of being anonymous online. It has its benefits, but 'unicorns' is one of its down sides.
It's off topic, but is anybody else amused by the idea of Unicorns invading a board? I mean.. wait I guess that's basically Bronies, isn't it?
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It's off topic, but is anybody else amused by the idea of Unicorns invading a board? I mean.. wait I guess that's basically Bronies, isn't it?
When I first saw the topic of this thread, my gut expectation (which I swiftly dismissed) was that it would involve Legend of the Five Rings and some reference to prodigals returning.
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I don't think that what we're doing is unimportant, honestly. I know that.. you know. It's not world peace, or curing cancer, but it is important to us.
We're a community with a population the size of Spain and we're going to be wiped off the map. Like any other community, there's people we don't get on with, or don't agree with, but.. you know...
I get annoyed at my neighbour's dog because he barks constantly at stupid 'oclock, but it doesn't mean I'd want my neighbour, his dog, or his house wiped off the face of the universe. I don't feel bad about fighting to save COH, or the energy I've put into it. You only need to dip into the Testimonial thread to see what this game and the community means to people. That's not to say it's not the same for other MMOs, but.. it does matter to people.
Whether it matters because of what they're getting out of the game - the people they've met, the friends they've made, or because they've poured hours of their life and creativity into something, or because they think it's ridiculous that a game that appeared to be in profit could be closed down and 80 people losing their jobs for no good reason.. or whether it's because the wider community are rebelling against the way that MMO publishers treat their customer base, and urging them to work with the customers they've spent time and effort trying to reel into their product, only to decide that actually, they don't want our customer after all, but thanks for all the time and money you've given us. See ya.
I can understand that some people feel like they can't support us, and I can understand why they think there are bigger things in the world that deserve our attention, and sure there are.
But of the things that are going to have a huge impact on my personal life, losing a place where 90% of my social life and 50% of my spare time goes ranks pretty highly up there. The game matters to me, the stories and friendships I've created through this game matter to me, and the way that NC Soft have treated their staff and customers matters to me. I believe my friends matter, I believe the people the game has helped (I mean, sheesh, look at SithRose's story) matter and I believe the way that NC Soft treated the staff at Paragon Studios was terrible. I absolutely believe that MMO publishers shouldn't treat their customers as disposable, and I believe that if you invest time and money into their product, they shouldn't then pull that away from you, but work with the people who stayed with them, who weren't distracted by new shiny games and stayed loyal to them, their product and their universe and not punish them for doing so.
I can't really speak about American politics, because.. well, English..but that's how I see it. I'm fighting for this, because..it's something I believe in. Because the closure of CoH will hurt me, and it will hurt my friends, and it hurt the developers, and it will hurt the many wonderful people I've met as part of the 'Save' campaign, and because I think they deserve better than that.
If that makes people look down on me, I don't really care :-p
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I don't think that what we're doing is unimportant, honestly. I know that.. you know. It's not world peace, or curing cancer, but it is important to us.
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I can understand that some people feel like they can't support us, and I can understand why they think there are bigger things in the world that deserve our attention, and sure there are.
Giving a teddy bear to an orphan who has rarely gotten anything in years isn't earth shatteringly important to the guy living 3000 miles away either. But, it sure was to that little girl.
If that makes people look down on me, I don't really care :-p
Never feel bad about fighting for the little girls gift of a teddy bear. :)
And, for what it's worth, I agree with you.
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"There are green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees
Tony cried, "Close the door because the rain is falling
And we just can't be bothered with no unicorns"
*sung to the Irish Rover's tune made so famous*
Do you mean the Irish rover or the wild rover, I can get it to scan to the latter but not the former (in the Irish rover the second line is a fair bit shorter than the first).
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When I first saw the topic of this thread, my gut expectation (which I swiftly dismissed) was that it would involve Legend of the Five Rings and some reference to prodigals returning.
...which would have been awesome. I have noticed the City of Heroes DOES have a strong L5R community. I see Kakita and Shosuro and Isawa all the time.
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My first toon was a Togashi
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GASP
Oh look at what we missed out on, Tim the Enchanter.
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Oh look at what we missed out on, Tim the Enchanter.
Yeah, I noticed that when it was too late. How dare they hold a witchburning and not invite us. 8)
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Yeah, I noticed that when it was too late. How dare they hold a witchburning and not invite us. 8)
Not my fault you were off causing random explosions in the country side.
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Well.... I... uhh.......
Hmph. *blows up another rock*
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For those who didn't get the Irish Rovers reference. Hey! WHy should I be the only one with this running through my head now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY
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Yeah, I noticed that when it was too late. How dare they hold a witchburning and not invite us. 8)
It's a fair cop.
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For those who didn't get the Irish Rovers reference. Hey! WHy should I be the only one with this running through my head now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPsuOEH1fY
Ah OK, I was thinking of the song the Irish rover rather than the band.
Shel Silverstein (who wrote it and a load of other childrens' stuff) was an amazing man responsible for A boy named Sue and many of Dr Hook's hits as well as having been a cartoonist for Playboy.